I’ve Got a Bad Feeling About This

[HuaRya]

You are entitled to your opinion, Don't do WZ's any more but had nothing to do it been hard or difficult but everything to do with players like yourself. I also find players like yourself ************ about game being to easy are also the same players in maxed out fully augmented gear.

 

Sorry to say to the detriment of the game your type of player has been fully serviced and satiated. All of the best gear comes from socialized RNG boxes. So anyone can be maxed out now. It's not some guy in elite war hero or brutalizer gear who grinded pvp for 4 months going up against someone without. Your kind prevailed.

 

Now what he's talking about is knowing simple 101 mechanics called 'Interrupt'. This used to be something you needed to know when fighting mini bosses or end of the chapter baddies in the story. Might wanna mellow out and have a live and let live approach to the game. There is no one absolute right way to be in an MMO.

[Ashanor]

I just came back and am excited for 6.0. I haven't played in a couple years. Been on and off since beta.

[JediQuaker]

Things are always subject to change, but from reading some of the descriptions of the bonus sets, I think a lot of the concerns come down to "much ado about nothing". Except, as usual, for PvP and high-end OPs, having a bonus or not will not make a whole lot of difference.

For example, when doing PvE in the last while, with various characters, there didn't seem to be a whole lot of difference between characters with no bonus, or partial bonus, and augmented 252s versus unaugment 246s - other than that the 252s with augments did feel a bit easier.

So, I'm not going to be all excited about some bonus set that has +2% Alacrity, for example. The bonuses seem to be "nice to haves" not "need to haves".

[DavidAtkinson]

You are entitled to your opinion, Don't do WZ's any more but had nothing to do it been hard or difficult but everything to do with players like yourself. I also find players like yourself ************ about game being to easy are also the same players in maxed out fully augmented gear.

 

Don't talk about players like myself because it has no place in this argument... Players like "myself" are not the majority and the devs have not been doing things for players like "myself" for years now....

 

I play this game to compete against other players, that's what motivates me and you play this game casually, there nothing wrong with that. We all have our own motivations in this game, but please don't tell me that it's normal for my companion to kill everything for me while I talk with other hand on the phone....

 

A lot of us have been asking for increase in difficulty because it was way too easy. If the game becomes a bit harder and you can't cope that's you problem.

 

Also, you should be happy that your not a player like " myself" . You don't have to go through all the gearing hell... that comes with this expansion.

Edited October 22, 2019 by DavidAtkinson

[Einobi]

On the topic of healing comp nerf, I am totally opposed to it NOT on the basis which motivates it which is to make the content more challenging because healing comp is too OP in comparison. The basis of my opposition is on the approach and mentality on how this issue is tackled. I said before in the PTS feedback and I say again here:

 

If the issue is that content are not challenging because of strong healing comp (which I did not disagree) then the approach should be to make the content challenging (for example making the mob stronger, making them deal more dps and survive better by giving them more HP etc etc). This is positive mindset and positive approach rather than taking a negative approach by back peddling nerfing healing comp.

 

You can equally say it is not that the healing comp is too OP but rather the mobs are too weak. Why not make mobs stronger rather than instead make healing comp weaker?

 

The reason why we should not make healing comp weaker is because as I have said before in previous post, strong players can choose to make their gameplay more challenging (for example disabling their healing comp or make their healing comp to dps/tank or passive) or they can choose to unequipped a few of their gear pieces so that they are under-geared to a certain level where challenges set in for their game play. This is their choice and within their total absolute control. But nerfing healing comp affects all players which left them with no choice.

 

You seasoned MMO players who feel it is too easy does not think of those really casual players who are not MMO or even computer game players who come in to SWTOR just to experience the storyline (I must say the trailer did a good job to attract some of these non-game players). They are not even comfortable with the W,A,S,D movement key. You make it difficult. They watch the story and they leave. They will not be motivated to play further. It will be a loss. Why do some MMO have mentor scheme? IT is to have a stronger player to partner and follow through with the new weak players and guide them through the difficult early phase of adjusting to the game play. The healing comp is exactly playing the role of this mentor protecting the new weak players so that they don't get discouraged so fast at early stage dying so frequently to trash mobs.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Einobi

[Raansu]

On the topic of healing comp nerf, I am totally opposed to it NOT on the basis which motivates it which is to make the content more challenging because healing comp is too OP in comparison. The basis of my opposition is on the approach and mentality on how this issue is tackled. I said before in the PTS feedback and I say again here:

 

If the issue is that content are not challenging because of strong healing comp (which I did not disagree) then the approach should be to make the content challenging (for example making the mob stronger, making them deal more dps and survive better by giving them more HP etc etc). This is positive mindset and positive approach rather than taking a negative approach by back peddling nerfing healing comp.

 

You can equally say it is not that the healing comp is too OP but rather the mobs are too weak. Why not make mobs stronger rather than instead make healing comp weaker?

 

The reason why we should not make healing comp weaker is because as I have said before in previous post, strong players can choose to make their gameplay more challenging (for example disabling their healing comp or make their healing comp to dps/tank or passive) or they can choose to unequipped a few of their gear pieces so that they are under-geared to a certain level where challenges set in for their game play. This is their choice and within their total absolute control. But nerfing healing comp affects all players which left them with no choice.

 

You seasoned MMO players who feel it is too easy does not think of those really casual players who are not MMO or even computer game players who come in to SWTOR just to experience the storyline (I must say the trailer did a good job to attract some of these non-game players). They are not even comfortable with the W,A,S,D movement key. You make it difficult. They watch the story and they leave. They will not be motivated to play further. It will be a loss. Why do some MMO have mentor scheme? IT is to have a stronger player to partner and follow through with the new weak players and guide them through the difficult early phase of adjusting to the game play. The healing comp is exactly playing the role of this mentor protecting the new weak players so that they don't get discouraged so fast at early stage dying so frequently to trash mobs.

 

Dude...the story quests in this game are stupid easy.....even with the healing nerf you wont have any problems doing the 1-50 stuff.

[sharkfishman]

On the topic of healing comp nerf, I am totally opposed to it NOT on the basis which motivates it which is to make the content more challenging because healing comp is too OP in comparison. The basis of my opposition is on the approach and mentality on how this issue is tackled. I said before in the PTS feedback and I say again here:

 

If the issue is that content are not challenging because of strong healing comp (which I did not disagree) then the approach should be to make the content challenging (for example making the mob stronger, making them deal more dps and survive better by giving them more HP etc etc). This is positive mindset and positive approach rather than taking a negative approach by back peddling nerfing healing comp.

 

You can equally say it is not that the healing comp is too OP but rather the mobs are too weak. Why not make mobs stronger rather than instead make healing comp weaker?

 

I agree that increasing mob difficultly would've been a better solution.

 

Why?

 

Not because of story quests or open world, which IS too easy in my opinion (it's not rewarding to finish your class quests anymore).

 

However, radically changing healing in this way affects new players who are interested in going after harder content. What if they want to get the speed feat in Eternal Championship after 6.0? Why should they have a harder time surviving than ALL of the players who were around at launch, including the ones who are now crying about difficultly being too easy?

 

What if they want to finish Veteran Mode chapters or Master Mode chapters?

 

Now the have to tackle a level of difficultly that even the so-called "elites" didn't have to face. How is that fair? Adjusting the level of mobs would've been a more balanced solution.

[MacCleoud]

The healing comp nerf is not bad. The only issue I EVER had on PTS with healing is when I would blitz into 8-10 mobs. Other than that, I had no real issues. When soloing Vet FP's, I would have to pop a DCD here and there, but nothing really life threatening (except that first big pull in HS). Open world, I died once because I was watching a hockey game and pulled 5 elites......

 

You just have to think a little bit more now instead of facerolling through stuff.

[SiegePro]

I'm not dreading anything since I found out my first love (City of Heroes) is back and even has some new toys that were only on the test server that I never got to play with on live.

 

I'll play the story on my Pub and Imp mains once the major stability patches are in place in a week or two, but after that I may even let my subscription lapse for the first time since this game launched. The only reason this game ever became my mainstay was because CoH went away.

 

The fact that that a game that hasn't been updated in seven years has me so excited that I haven't logged into this game for two weeks and probably won't for a couple more and am not even missing it should tell you everything you need to know about how much I'm looking forward to this expansion.

[DreadtechSavant]

I agree that increasing mob difficultly would've been a better solution.

 

Why?

 

Not because of story quests or open world, which IS too easy in my opinion (it's not rewarding to finish your class quests anymore).

 

However, radically changing healing in this way affects new players who are interested in going after harder content. What if they want to get the speed feat in Eternal Championship after 6.0? Why should they have a harder time surviving than ALL of the players who were around at launch, including the ones who are now crying about difficultly being too easy?

 

What if they want to finish Veteran Mode chapters or Master Mode chapters?

 

Now the have to tackle a level of difficultly that even the so-called "elites" didn't have to face. How is that fair? Adjusting the level of mobs would've been a more balanced solution.

 

Pretty much agree even more so as these or so many of these players are already in maxed out fully augmented gear. Many characters going into new story in 6.0 will not have maxed out gear. A few of mine have but not many some in 234 rated gear but may even have the free non set gear from Ossuss which is 232 rated. So yeah if playing in 258 augmented gear it is going to be easier. New player even if actually levelling won't have that easy to get gear so many of us had from command crates.

 

Still I remember the last healing change BW did, it lasted what a week, two? Not expecting this to last all that long either but also not expecting it to go fully back to what it was. Somewhere in-between my guess would be. It was changed last time because of the same players but was still changed very quickly afterwards. Personally doubt this time be all that different despite what those players say.

[Einobi]

Dude...the story quests in this game are stupid easy.....even with the healing nerf you wont have any problems doing the 1-50 stuff.

 

I doubt any players will have problem doing the game content. IF you die, try again. Try until you succeed. If after repeated trying, you still don't succeed, then you are way too under-leveled for that content. The point is not about being able to finish the content which is not a problem for most. The issue is your experience while doing it. Do you want a seamless experience and less frustrating experience? If you are seeking challenges, then it is another matter. Seeking challenges only come after you are competent and familiar with the game play. IT is a more 'advance' stage play to speak.

 

I give you an example. I played heroic planet quest. The healing comp nerf is already in effect (if not only partial) in recent patch and I can feel it. On those heroic planet quest, I can EASILY clear any content with my OP healing comp. And to keep my game play challenging, I will pull more than one group of mobs to clear and the number of groups to pull is adjusted to my liking of challenges. This is my choice of introducing challenges.

 

However due to the recent nerf on healing comp, I am starting to die multiple times to just 2 groups of mobs (basically got knock back into another group of mobs accidentally). I am geared majority with BiS 258 rated gear in most slots and the other slots are minimally in 252 rated gear. I am armed to the teeth and I still die to multiple group of trash mobs. I analysed the situation and find that the reason of my death is because my healing comp die too fast to the trash mobs and stop healing me. The nerf does not impact me so much but it impact the ability of the healing comp to heal itself to stay up to heal me. I now find that I can survive better by setting my comp to dps/tank mode rather than heal so that both of us can clear many mobs faster than they can bring my hp to zero. This become a case whereby a healing comp may kill you but a dps/tank comp may save you instead. Very funny situation here. Something is not right.

 

PS: To help some of you to understand better, if you have played EveOnline, you will know the concept of ALPHA strike (as distinct from dps). Alpha strike is that first (or initial) attack that collectively strike a single target at that single time. Let say if 2 groups of 4 mobs each attack your healing comp at the same time in alpha strike. Let say each mob only deal 5K dmg. At that first initial strike where 8 mobs strike at the same time, it will be an 40K (8 x 5K) dmg on your healing comp at a single instant. Alpha strike is a HUGE MASSIVE first strike that if you are not powerful enough you will die fast (as opposed to you being able to survive very well on sustained well-distributed dps dmg). I feel the nerf on the healing comp has make it very vulnerable to huge burst of alpha strike imho.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Einobi

[Gilrenna]

I don't mind the healing nerf as long as it's not bad enough that I'm going to be re-doing story quests or instances over and over just trying to survive. I like playing alts, so I prefer the story to be casual enough to go smoothly since I know I'll be repeating it a lot.

 

I came over from GW2. I dislike their story because I spend too much of it trying to survive rather than enjoying the plotline. I've always loved this game's story because I can enjoy it and actually focus on the conversations, etc. rather than dreading it because I know I'll die a lot.

[Tsillah]

I agree that increasing mob difficultly would've been a better solution.

 

Why?

 

Not because of story quests or open world, which IS too easy in my opinion (it's not rewarding to finish your class quests anymore).

 

However, radically changing healing in this way affects new players who are interested in going after harder content. What if they want to get the speed feat in Eternal Championship after 6.0? Why should they have a harder time surviving than ALL of the players who were around at launch, including the ones who are now crying about difficultly being too easy?

 

What if they want to finish Veteran Mode chapters or Master Mode chapters?

 

Now the have to tackle a level of difficultly that even the so-called "elites" didn't have to face. How is that fair? Adjusting the level of mobs would've been a more balanced solution.

 

Difficulties are adjusted more regularly. It's funny that you say "Why should they have a harder time surviving than ALL of the players who were around at launch" because that's total bs. When said content was released we didn't have ridiculously overpowered gear like the Ossus 252/258 gear that is so easy to get. So right now people have it way easier than when it came out. And you don't really now how that content is going to be balanced in 6.0 exactly and how it works with new set bonuses and tacticals and all that. So at best, you're kneejerking too early.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Tsillah

[Raansu]

I agree that increasing mob difficultly would've been a better solution.

 

Why?

 

Not because of story quests or open world, which IS too easy in my opinion (it's not rewarding to finish your class quests anymore).

 

However, radically changing healing in this way affects new players who are interested in going after harder content. What if they want to get the speed feat in Eternal Championship after 6.0? Why should they have a harder time surviving than ALL of the players who were around at launch, including the ones who are now crying about difficultly being too easy?

 

What if they want to finish Veteran Mode chapters or Master Mode chapters?

 

Now the have to tackle a level of difficultly that even the so-called "elites" didn't have to face. How is that fair? Adjusting the level of mobs would've been a more balanced solution.

 

You know that content is supposed to be difficult right? I say again, heaven forbid people learn how to play the game.

[LordAppius]

Anyone else dreading this patch? It’s weird that they’d make such drastic changes at this point in the life of the game. I’m flummoxed as to who was asking for gearing to become infinitely more complex, and tied back onto rng. I still regularly see (saw I reckon now) folks not even spec’d to 248, but here we are skipping ahead to something that no one really knows will work. Test center, it felt like they were showing us about 40% of what’s about to change. All of the crafting mats and items that are currently for sale on the gtn, are gonna become worthless. Is anyone even remotely ready for all of this? Why is there no trailer for this expansion, to drum up excitement? Coupled with previous experience when EA has previously upended everything, I’m just hoping we have folks still playing in a month.

 

Good luck, to all of us!

 

Mate when they can't deliver a lot of content, and by content i mean story, ops, flashpoints and new areas they deliver insanes tiers of gear. If you compare what we tried on the pts and the amount of gear that is new to the game they invested a hell more on gear than anything else.

[Rheshalea]

Not dreading it at all. But then I also haven't been paying attention to the PTS feedback since what little I did read seemed to focus so much on gearing up. I'm a solo(ish? My husband is coming back to the game too, so I won't be solo all the time anymore) player who doesn't care about getting Best in Slot gear within a couple of weeks. As long as I'm not dying all the time I'll be happy.

 

The only thing I *am* a bit worried about is the story and having enough new stuff to do for a while, something that hopefully is at least a little different depending on the previous choices of my characters.

[jimmorrisson]

Companions were just fine just after 4.0's change when influence was introduced. Then a small but vocal minority protested companions being too overpowered. Just like a very small yet vocal minority clamoring to make existing content more difficult alongside increasing repair and gear modding costs.

 

I have no intention of grinding more difficult Hammer Stations or the raids Eternity Vault and Karagga's Palace.

[DarthSpuds]

N - The pirate event only holds interest until you've gained the Rep and done the Achieves.

 

Nope, not even close to that long.

 

Some of the most boring content in the game.

 

Didn't even get the Rep / Achievements done - played it twice on my main, never touched it even once on any of the others.

 

Even worse than the stupid Grav-Train mission.

 

All The Best

[sharkfishman]

You know that content is supposed to be difficult right? I say again, heaven forbid people learn how to play the game.

 

Have you played MM chapters on PTS following this change?

 

Have you achieved the speed feat on Eternal Championship on PTS following this change?

[DarthSpuds]

You know that content is supposed to be difficult right?

 

Is it?

 

Where in the definition of an MMORPG does it say that?

 

All The Best

[sharkfishman]

Difficulties are adjusted more regularly. It's funny that you say "Why should they have a harder time surviving than ALL of the players who were around at launch" because that's total bs. When said content was released we didn't have ridiculously overpowered gear like the Ossus 252/258 gear that is so easy to get. So right now people have it way easier than when it came out. And you don't really now how that content is going to be balanced in 6.0 exactly and how it works with new set bonuses and tacticals and all that. So at best, you're kneejerking too early.

 

You're right about the gear, however this has a far lower effect on survival in MM chapters than companion healing output. This is easily demonstrable. Go into a MM chapter in 258s with Senya at lvl 10-20. Now go into a MM chapter in 236s with Senya at lvl 50. Which encounter are you more likely to survive?

 

How long did it take to regularly clear Eternal Championship on release with companion healing/damage the way it was? How long did it take after the previous healing nerf? Which makes it more likely to achieve the feat?

[Gilrenna]

LOL There's no rule that says content has to be difficult. Or to be difficult in order to be fun. Edited October 22, 2019 by Gilrenna

[Tsillah]

Is it?

 

Where in the definition of an MMORPG does it say that?

 

All The Best

I do believe that's how the EC was marketed. And I don't think it's a stretch to consider difficulty modes meaning that it's supposed to be more challenging than normal content. All in all I think it's a fair statement on his part.

 

Your reply is a bit... well, below par let's say.

[Tsillah]

You're right about the gear, however this has a far lower effect on survival in MM chapters than companion healing output. This is easily demonstrable. Go into a MM chapter in 258s with Senya at lvl 10-20. Now go into a MM chapter in 236s with Senya at lvl 50. Which encounter are you more likely to survive?

 

How long did it take to regularly clear Eternal Championship on release with companion healing/damage the way it was? How long did it take after the previous healing nerf? Which makes it more likely to achieve the feat?

There are no easy answers to your questions as they depend on various factors but I've actually done EC on a healer character with melee DPS companion. So my own experiences do not serve as a good example.

 

What I will say is that it's not about more likely. The healer companions currently are overpowered. That's not a good situation. People use it as a crutch for many things and I think it's good that that gets a nerf.

 

What you do not know yet is how difficult it will be in 6.0 yet. Not really. So you're jumping to conclusions. If EC is not doable in 6.0 for too many people then it may need to be toned down, but healer comps that are op simply is an issue that needs to be addressed.

 

But from my point of view such content like Master Mode needs to be really challenging. Getting an OP healer comp as crutch is not a sign of beating a challenge.

 

People might surprise themselves how much they can improve once they have to. Necessity is the mother of invention after all. And no, it doesn't have to be nearly as tough as NiM bosses but I do think it's ok that there is content that is challenging and can really throw you for a loop. Time will tell but I'd rather they end up nerfing some fights here and there than have OP healer comps running around. That's just my opinion.

[cibacrome]

Ok nvm you're calling Eternal Championship EC - I thought you meant Explosive Conflict, my bad assumption as I really don't enjoy that kind of solo content in an MMO.

 

 

 

It sounds like you're referring to Operations, which, yeah, are supposed to be harder content. And they are. Also, new Op are usually quite challenging - having played through most of Dxun SM on PTS I'd say that fits the bill. Might be a tad easier than Godz, but not even sure that's the case as I played a very early (buggy) version of Dxun.

 

Leveling on the other hand should not be harder. In later stage MMOs leveling is really about preparing new players for endgame, and allowing alts to level at a fast enough pace so players are motivated to actually do that.

 

I'm just hoping level sync hasn't ruined NiM Ops...

Edited October 22, 2019 by cibacrome