Can We Please Stop

[ZIMMOZMAN]

Can we please stop making suggestions that we all know Bioware shouldn't do? Its 2019 we should all know what this game can/can't do by now and plenty of data from the MMO market on what works and what doesn't.

 

So why suggest AI teammates so people can solo ops? When that would take so much dev time for a few people who can't even be bothered to engage in the MMO part of this game. Why should Bioware take time out of making content? When you yourself could take 20 mins and form a group.

Blizzard took time to make AI for their latest expac and people hate that content and wished they focused on something else.

Why suggest a "classic" version of this game? When this MMO's vanilla content is totally different to other MMO's, its still worthwhile content people still play compared to people lvling in retail WoW and just missing 90% of the vanilla content.

Why suggest "customizable voices"? When you should know how long that would take.

 

If I ever see another open world space idea I'm going to lose my mind. (even Youtubers still talk about this when they should know it could never happen.)

 

My point is, stop suggesting stuff you should.... know by now, things that will not work in SWTOR, hasn't worked in another MMO, cant be done due to the engine or cant be done due to too much dev time.

Edited September 25, 2019 by ZIMMOZMAN

[MadDutchman]

Am I the only one amused at the irony of making a pointless thread about making pointless threads?

[OlBuzzard]

Am I the only one amused at the irony of making a pointless thread about making pointless threads?

 

[/scratches head]

 

yeah .. no kidding. Even for me it's .. well

[/scratches head again]

 

ummmm

 

Can I get back with ya later on this ?

 

[Einobi]

Because all the suggestions that have been brought up CAN BE DONE. It is not a question of technical feasibility because it has been done in other MMO. How do you implement it in SWTOR is the question mark. The other potential show-stopper is financial viability, specifically the financial cost of production. Once you clear these 2 obstacles, namely technical feasibility and financial cost concern, the rest like I said are "operational issues" which can be worked out.

 

I cringe whenever someone said this cannot be done and that cannot be done. The SWTOR world is already ONE DIMENSION behind other MMOs. SWTOR is still operating in 2-D with single-seat slow mount hugging the ground while other MMOs are aleady operating in 3-D with FLYING MOUNT and multi-seat (some MMOs mount can take 4 players and 4 cargos and is SUPER FAST). Other MMOs are already flying high and here we are still stuck within our small box lamenting that nothing can be done. Such a shame.

 

PS: I hope my above post is not deemed as non-constructive as I have been warned before by the moderator. I am just contributing my "thinking out-of-the-box" opinion even if that is non-main stream thought and hence may appear nonsensical. If it is non-constructive, pls help me delete it. I am not a trouble-maker here.

[TrixxieTriss]

Blizzard took time to make AI for their latest expac and people hate that content and wished they focused on something else.

 

That’s why the newest expac of the retail version of WoW has become a ghost town since WoW classic was released. Everyone is playing classic instead of retail WoW. It’s even brought back more players who haven’t played WoW for many years.

 

As the head of Blizzard famously stated years ago when asked if they could release WoW classic, “You think you do, but you don’t”

He’s now had to eat his words as classic is killing retail WoW and Blizzards share price has gone up since classic was released because it’s been so successful.

 

Just goes to show that game companies and producers don’t always know what’s best for gamers or what they want.

You can’t compare this game’s player type to a WoW MMO anymore.

It’s highly possible you could be wrong and adding an AI version to do ops would be a massive success. Especially when you consider there is now a large contingent of solo players in this game after Bioware made it mostly solo player orientated for 3-4 years. Many of the MMO players left during that time.

 

Now I’m not saying they should do that or take resources away from things that desperately need it. I’m just saying you can’t know if making an AI companion version to do SM ops wouldn’t be more successful than adding another flash point or pvp map or new strong hold,

Maybe if Bioware did some real player surveys and feed back with the whole population instead of looking at self fulling spreadsheets, they might get to understand what their current player base wants.

Edited September 25, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[ZIMMOZMAN]

Because all the suggestions that have been brought up CAN BE DONE. It is not a question of technical feasibility.

 

I cringe whenever someone said this cannot be done and that cannot be done. The SWTOR world is already ONE DIMENSION behind other MMOs. SWTOR is still operating in 2-D with single-seat slow mount hugging the ground while other MMOs are aleady operating in 3-D with FLYING MOUNT and multi-seat (some MMOs mount can take 4 players and 4 cargos and is SUPER FAST). Other MMOs are already flying high and here we are still stuck within our small box lamenting that nothing can be done. Such a shame.

 

Must be new to the game since you should know flying mounts are technically impossible due to the game engine. Also look what happened in WoW and how they have handled flying over the years. The game turned into a fly straight and dive bomb the objective, missing out on all the content devs worked hard for. Thats why they never let you fly at the start of an expansion these days and make you grind all the new reps and some other hoops to get it.

 

Thanks I forgot about people suggesting flying and how unhelpful it would be to the game.

[ZIMMOZMAN]

Now I’m not saying they should do that or take resources away from things that desperately need it. I’m just saying you can’t know if making an AI companion version to do SM ops wouldn’t be more successful than adding another flash point or pvp map or new strong hold,

Maybe if Bioware did some real player surveys and feed back with the whole population instead of looking at self fulling spreadsheets, they might get to understand what their current player base wants.

 

My thoughts about AI has nothing to do with Classic WoW so no idea why you talked about that for so long. Yeah Classic did good for WoW maybe it will show EA mmos can still be a thing. But in no way does that mean we should get a Classic SWTOR.

 

You can know that group content would more be bang for ya buck, since back in the day the old ops were soloable and what content did people do back then? oh wait the new group content.

Also guilds are made to do the group content, no one makes a guild to solo ops. Do you really think an expansion feature saying "do ops solo with AI" will pull some old guilds back into the game compared to a feature saying "new ops and flash-points"? Like what kind of world do you live in?

 

Maybe if people didn't suggest outlandish ideas all the time Bioware would do surveys. If you want an example of an outlandish idea that flopped I point to GSF.

Edited September 25, 2019 by ZIMMOZMAN

[ZIMMOZMAN]

I cringe whenever someone said this cannot be done and that cannot be done. The SWTOR world is already ONE DIMENSION behind other MMOs. SWTOR is still operating in 2-D with single-seat slow mount hugging the ground while other MMOs are aleady operating in 3-D with FLYING MOUNT and multi-seat (some MMOs mount can take 4 players and 4 cargos and is SUPER FAST). Other MMOs are already flying high and here we are still stuck within our small box lamenting that nothing can be done. Such a shame.

 

If you really want to fly, I can suggest another recent Bioware game you might prefer, since it will never happen in this game.

[Lhancelot]

My thoughts about AI has nothing to do with Classic WoW so no idea why you talked about that for so long.

 

lol Trixx. I had to laugh at that. ^

[TrixxieTriss]

My thoughts about AI has nothing to do with Classic WoW so no idea why you talked about that for so long. Yeah Classic did good for WoW maybe it will show EA mmos can still be a thing. But in no way does that mean we should get a Classic SWTOR.

 

You can know that group content would more be bang for ya buck, since back in the day the old ops were soloable and what content did people do back then? oh wait the new group content.

Also guilds are made to do the group content, no one makes a guild to solo ops. Do you really think an expansion feature saying "do ops solo with AI" will pull some old guilds back into the game compared to a feature saying "new ops and flash-points"? Like what kind of world do you live in?

 

Maybe if people didn't suggest outlandish ideas all the time Bioware would do surveys. If you want an example of an outlandish idea that flopped I point to GSF.

 

You missed my points entirely.

 

I referred to WoW as an example of how game companies don’t always understand what the players want.

I didn’t suggest we get swtor classic in anyway or form

I also didn’t say MMO content, guilds or group content isn’t what could be best for the game.

 

What I was pointing out is we don’t know. This game is not the same game it was when it was mostly MMO focused, it went through a transition to solo based (for better or worse ) and that changed a lot of the population demographics.

Many pvpers left during 5.0 and many MMO focused players left before and since.

Bioware have now decided to switch back to a more MMO model (for better or worse???) and we can’t know if that’s going to be successful of not because of the changed demographic. I do know that a lot of solo players have left in the last year due to lack of content for them and now the switch back to more MMO group content.

 

IMO, 6.0 is make of brake for this game. We’ve got some massive changes in coming, from increased RNG (which most people hate), increased gear lvl grind, overly expensive and guild focused crafting, nerfs to healing companions and “some people will be in for a bit of a culture shock” when they realise things won’t be as face roll easy to kill.

 

The problem as I see it, isn’t the requests people make, it’s the things Bioware do that “nobody asks for” or do in such ways “that they alienate part of the community”.

 

What they need to do is more interaction of ideas with what players want. Not dropping forums bombs to ask people what they want and then never participate in those threads again.

What’s needed Surveys or official polls and then “actual” two way conversations with the player base to discuss and flesh out ideas because there is obviously some disconnect or entirely wrong interpretation of what players are trying to tell them.

 

Edit: FYI, GSF flopped because they didn’t listen to how players wanted to have a space ship orientated part of the game.

Many, including myself were expecting something like the “old Xwing vs Tie” fighter sims.

For me the real clincher for not playing GSF was them not including joystick (flight sim) support. I refuse to play a space “sim” that uses a keyboard and mouse. That is not an immersive experience for me at all.

Edited September 25, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

lol Trixx. I had to laugh at that. ^

 

IKR, he’s the one who brought up WoW to start with, lol.

[ZIMMOZMAN]

You missed my points entirely.

 

I referred to WoW as an example of how game companies don’t always understand what the players want.

I didn’t suggest we get swtor classic in anyway or form

I also didn’t say MMO content, guilds or group content isn’t what could be best for the game.

 

What I was pointing out is we don’t know. This game is not the same game it was when it was mostly MMO focused, it went through a transition to solo based (for better or worse ) and that changed a lot of the population demographics.

Many pvpers left during 5.0 and many MMO focused players left before and since.

Bioware have now decided to switch back to a more MMO model (for better or worse???) and we can’t know if that’s going to be successful of not because of the changed demographic. I do know that a lot of solo players have left in the last year due to lack of content for them and now the switch back to more MMO group content.

 

IMO, 6.0 is make of brake for this game. We’ve got some massive changes in coming, from increased RNG (which most people hate), increased gear lvl grind, overly expensive and guild focused crafting, nerfs to healing companions and “some people will be in for a bit of a culture shock” when they realise things won’t be as face roll easy to kill.

 

The problem as I see it, isn’t the requests people make, it’s the things Bioware do that “nobody asks for” or do in such ways “that they alienate part of the community”.

 

What they need to do is more interaction of ideas with what players want. Not dropping forums bombs to ask people what they want and then never participate in those threads again.

What’s needed Surveys or official polls and then “actual” two way conversations with the player base to discuss and flesh out ideas because there is obviously some disconnect or entirely wrong interpretation of what players are trying to tell them.

 

Edit: FYI, GSF flopped because they didn’t listen to how players wanted to have a space ship orientated part of the game.

Many, including myself were expecting something like the “old Xwing vs Tie” fighter sims.

For me the real clincher for not playing GSF was them not including joystick (flight sim) support. I refuse to play a space “sim” that uses a keyboard and mouse. That is not an immersive experience for me at all.

 

Good points. GSF was never going to be what people wanted the SWG crew wanted open world while others wanted flight sim combat.

 

Also, it is a 2 way street though most players don't know what they want and most people blame retail WoW's failure due to Blizzard listening to suggestions on the forums of a vocal minority. Which proves my point. But the difference being that WoW was/is the leader making moves in the dark while SWTOR these days has heaps of MMO's to see data on what content players engaged with and what content people didn't engage with.

[ZIMMOZMAN]

IKR, he’s the one who brought up WoW to start with, lol.

 

Brought up WoW for 2 points I didn't write my whole post about it.

Edited September 25, 2019 by ZIMMOZMAN

[SteveTheCynic]

Because all the suggestions that have been brought up CAN BE DONE. It is not a question of technical feasibility because it has been done in other MMO. How do you implement it in SWTOR is the question mark. The other potential show-stopper is financial viability, specifically the financial cost of production. Once you clear these 2 obstacles, namely technical feasibility and financial cost concern, the rest like I said are "operational issues" which can be worked out.

Don't forget the difference between "possible" and "feasible". A thing is *possible* if it *can* be done. A thing is *feasible* if it can be done *for*a*reasonable*cost*. That means that "financial cost of production" is part of "feasibility", not a supplement to it.

 

The definition of "reasonable cost" is a bit subjective, of course.

 

By reducing things to "operational issues", you trivialise them, and some of the things you've marked as such are definitely *not* trivial.

I cringe whenever someone said this cannot be done and that cannot be done. The SWTOR world is already ONE DIMENSION behind other MMOs. SWTOR is still operating in 2-D with single-seat slow mount hugging the ground while other MMOs are aleady operating in 3-D with FLYING MOUNT and multi-seat (some MMOs mount can take 4 players and 4 cargos and is SUPER FAST). Other MMOs are already flying high and here we are still stuck within our small box lamenting that nothing can be done. Such a shame.

Don't tar everyone here with the same brush. I agree that SWTOR mounts are glacially slow, although I'm not convinced that adding flight is automatically a good idea, not even GW2-style Griffon / Skyscale semi-flight, and cargo-carrying on mounts is a sandbox feature that has no place in a themepark game like SWTOR.

 

Ultimately, though, it comes back to the difference between "possible" and "feasible". To be sure, it is *possible* to fix up SWTOR to handle Roller Beetle speed mounts (more than three times Speeder Piloting V), but at what cost?

PS: I hope my above post is not deemed as non-constructive as I have been warned before by the moderator. I am just contributing my "thinking out-of-the-box" opinion even if that is non-main stream thought and hence may appear nonsensical. If it is non-constructive, pls help me delete it. I am not a trouble-maker here.

You can't delete the post itself (although a moderator can).

[Einobi]

Don't forget the difference between "possible" and "feasible". A thing is *possible* if it *can* be done. A thing is *feasible* if it can be done *for*a*reasonable*cost*. That means that "financial cost of production" is part of "feasibility", not a supplement to it.

 

The definition of "reasonable cost" is a bit subjective, of course.

 

By reducing things to "operational issues", you trivialise them, and some of the things you've marked as such are definitely *not* trivial.

 

If you even bother to read my post CAREFULLY, I already stated that "namely technical feasibility and financial cost concern" which if I may rephrase for you namely TECHNICAL and FINANCIAL feasibility. I stated that VERY CLEARLY which you have not read and comprehend.

 

If it is TECHNICALLY and FINANCIALLY feasible, the rest are just a matter of execution i.e. implementing it. Never have I infer that execution is trivial, easy and have no problem. What I am inferring is execution and implementing is in the realm of "operation". If it is feasible, it is only a matter of HOW you implement it (even if it is difficult but issues can be overcome because it is NOT a feasibility concern).

 

This is my last word on this matter because I do not want to risk another potential warning from the moderator. I do not know myself whether my opinion is constructive, therefore that is my last word on this matter.

[ZIMMOZMAN]

although I'm not convinced that adding flight is automatically a good idea

 

It's not. This is your game-play while flying go straight then dive bomb the obj get it done and go in the air again. Rinse and repeat.

 

Imagine all the platforming for datacrons just gone because people can fly. Also the Tat balloon would be useless its a well loved thing even if it takes forever.

 

Boring gameplay, devs time making content goes to waste because you just fly over it. That's the reason other mmo's regret putting flying in the game and now restrict it in ways so you don't get it off the bat and have to walk through the content they created at least for awhile.

[ZIMMOZMAN]

If you even bother to read my post CAREFULLY, I already stated that "namely technical feasibility and financial cost concern" which if I may rephrase for you namely TECHNICAL and FINANCIAL feasibility. I stated that VERY CLEARLY which you have not read and comprehend.

 

If it is TECHNICALLY and FINANCIALLY feasible, the rest are just a matter of execution i.e. implementing it. Never have I infer that execution is trivial, easy and have no problem. What I am inferring is execution and implementing is in the realm of "operation". If it is feasible, it is only a matter of HOW you implement it (even if it is difficult but issues can be overcome because it is NOT a feasibility concern).

 

This is my last word on this matter because I do not want to risk another potential warning from the moderator. I do not know myself whether my opinion is constructive, therefore that is my last word on this matter.

 

Well flying isn't both of those things. You also gotta take into account what problems did other mmo's have once they added it in the game.

[JattaGin]

Any time this forum gets overwhelmed with critical threads, obviously showing that there is a huge dissatisfaction among the player base (at least the one present on this board), there show up a couple of people out of nowhere who suddenly take on the role as white knights.

 

This thread is an example. In the PTS forum is also an example from someone whom I have never seen before here, claiming how great things are at the moment and how he is looking forward to the new UI and everything. He also claims to just have subbed, because of the new system. But he has been here since 2011, too.

 

And to top this off, he got an immediate yellow reply from Eric.

 

Curious, curious...

 

To the OP: When the people actually stop, you will soon wish they wouldn't have. This forum has decreased so much in just one year... it is carried by maybe a dozen forumers these days. There used to be hundreds of active writers. They all stopped. Which is what you are asking for. Bad idea, imho.

[FlameYOL]

Any time this forum gets overwhelmed with critical threads, obviously showing that there is a huge dissatisfaction among the player base (at least the one present on this board), there show up a couple of people out of nowhere who suddenly take on the role as white knights.

 

This thread is an example. In the PTS forum is also an example from someone whom I have never seen before here, claiming how great things are at the moment and how he is looking forward to the new UI and everything. He also claims to just have subbed, because of the new system. But he has been here since 2011, too.

 

And to top this off, he got an immediate yellow reply from Eric.

 

Curious, curious...

 

To the OP: When the people actually stop, you will soon wish they wouldn't have. This forum has decreased so much in just one year... it is carried by maybe a dozen forumers these days. There used to be hundreds of active writers. They all stopped. Which is what you are asking for. Bad idea, imho.

 

I'm getting some dejavu here.

[Lhancelot]

And to top this off, he got an immediate yellow reply from Eric.

 

This studio is awful at taking criticism, they are afraid of it. Now, whether it's actually the studio, or just some of the people responsible for the communication element of the studio, I don't know.

 

It's pretty clear they are thin skinned, and the reason they seem oblivious to what the players actually want could be just a matter of pride getting in the way of them being honest with themselves.

 

Sycophants are responded to, while constructive criticism even when presented in a cordial fashion is largely ignored. So there's no point in being nice. The best thing to do is be brutally honest and hope your viewpoint gets supported by other unhappy players. That and cancel your sub, that works too.

[JediQuaker]

*Sigh* Once upon a time I could spend some time reading the forums and answering questions, learning new things, etc.

 

Now the forums and General Discussion in particular are just a mess of thread after thread by someone who thinks they can "save" SWTOR if only the devs would listen to them - followed by page after page of people ************ at each other.

 

I agree with the OP - can we just stop?

 

(But I do know we won't/can't) 😕

[Lhancelot]

*Sigh* Once upon a time I could spend some time reading the forums and answering questions, learning new things, etc.

 

Now the forums and General Discussion in particular are just a mess of thread after thread by someone who thinks they can "save" SWTOR if only the devs would listen to them - followed by page after page of people ************ at each other.

 

I agree with the OP - can we just stop?

 

(But I do know we won't/can't) 😕

 

Pretty sure reading forums is voluntary. It's not hard to see the topic of a thread, and not click on it, right? I find all types of things of interest to read across the forums, not just the critical threads written. Surely you can, too.

[JediQuaker]

Pretty sure reading forums is voluntary. It's not hard to see the topic of a thread, and not click on it, right? I find all types of things of interest to read across the forums, not just the critical threads written. Surely you can, too.

And surely, you could stop adding to the mess with your constant counter-productive confrontational posts, but there we are.

Can't/won't.

[Transcendent]

Sycophants are responded to, while constructive criticism even when presented in a cordial fashion is largely ignored. So there's no point in being nice.

 

To add some perspective to this part, I think perhaps everyone reads too much into this. Positive posts get slight attention if the yellow post doesn't commit to seemingly promise anything, a more light hearted touch response. Negative posts get ignored (or outright get your posting rights removed), constructive posts sometimes get responded too, however as above they have to be very careful how to respond otherwise it may be seen as a promise to implement something, when that isn't what was implied.

 

I mean if you were a developer working on this game, would you really want to post on these forums while treading very lightly on egg shells, so you don't upset the community of the game? Or have something turned into a meme by the players? Would you? I certainly wouldn't.

 

So yes, there is every reason to be nice. Most of us have seen the results of the community not being nice. There's an old adage, "If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all".

[Rion_Starkiller]

Can we please stop making suggestions that we all know Bioware shouldn't do? Its 2019 we should all know what this game can/can't do by now and plenty of data from the MMO market on what works and what doesn't.

 

So why suggest AI teammates so people can solo ops? When that would take so much dev time for a few people who can't even be bothered to engage in the MMO part of this game. Why should Bioware take time out of making content? When you yourself could take 20 mins and form a group.

Blizzard took time to make AI for their latest expac and people hate that content and wished they focused on something else.

Why suggest a "classic" version of this game? When this MMO's vanilla content is totally different to other MMO's, its still worthwhile content people still play compared to people lvling in retail WoW and just missing 90% of the vanilla content.

Why suggest "customizable voices"? When you should know how long that would take.

 

If I ever see another open world space idea I'm going to lose my mind. (even Youtubers still talk about this when they should know it could never happen.)

 

My point is, stop suggesting stuff you should.... know by now, things that will not work in SWTOR, hasn't worked in another MMO, cant be done due to the engine or cant be done due to too much dev time.

 

^I love this guy. Preach!

 

Some wackadoo suggestions are about as easy as growing another arm. Look at GSF. Sure it's a great idea to add a flippin' flight sim to SWTOR, but seriously? I can only imagine the hours and resources it took.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller