6.0 Gearing Will Kill What's Left of SWTOR's Population

[arunav]

I've been playing since January 2012, through all the ups and downs in SWTOR. It's been a great game and community to be a part of.

 

With less support and content over the years, naturally the population has declined. But I was confident the game could still last years with the players we have now, and occasional bumps from expansions like what 6.0 will bring.

 

That was until I tested out the gearing on PTS a few days ago.

 

Without question, even with adjustments to RNG to make it more favorable to players, the new gearing system will essentially kill the population.

 

Will SWTOR still be around? I'd expect. But will it recover? I don't.

 

It's simply not enjoyable to run instances that have been in the game for 5-8 years to grind gear that has an extremely low probability of being what you need. To top it off, the new level-sync system for MM FPs and OPs has made getting through trash more time consuming. Crafting materials needed to make even the most basic things like Augments or low-level endgame gear aren't even kind of reasonable or in line with what the game has ever had in it.

 

Everything about level-cap play will be affected poorly. PVE and PVP stats won't be able to be tailored properly. Alt-play is severely restricted by the grind necessary to get even 1 character the appropriate gear for 1 type of endgame focus. Even Conquest points are back up to 50,000 for some reason.

 

I don't understand why the developers are going this route, but a lot of people will just play the story and quit when they realize what the endgame gearing situation is, if they haven't already heard from people testing. Unless the team are actually trying to merge all servers into 1 and sunset SWTOR, radical changes need to be made to how RNG can be mitigated to get what your character actually needs to play PVE and PVP properly on multiple characters and roles. Otherwise, I think the game folks have been playing since 2012 is essentially over.

 

I don't know if this is possible, but pushing back the expansion until later in the year or even January might be for the best, in order to figure out how to adjust the gearing process into something that won't lead to a mass exodus of players.

Edited September 6, 2019 by arunav

[AwesomeTacoCat]

As someone who played through 4.0, quite soon after 5.0 was released due to the horrible RNGearing grind, I wholly agree with this. I eventually came back once the grind was fixed to some extent, but that’s a lot of lost subscription revenue in the meantime from myself and others like me...

[scardera]

Yes I think it will even if they tweak it too much RNG and grind i wont be part of this non sense

[fushnchips]

they are working on it why another one of these doom and gloom threads ?

[KainrycKarr]

they are working on it why another one of these doom and gloom threads ?

 

Because their "work" is laughable. Have you seen the feedback to the new patch? Bioware refuses to acknowledge that players DO NOT WANT TO RELY ON RNG TO GEAR. IT IS NOT FUN.

[Batwer]

The new system annoys me as well. But they still have time to adjust the system. Making it completely new does not work anymore. One also seems to try to adapt the whole thing. What's more than usual on BW comes. In order to reduce the RNG share at least slightly, Kai Zykken could always stand there and offer everything.

[HuntyUK]

Essentially, I’m going to give them a month after launch, if it’s still this bad then, I’ll be off. I just don’t have time for RNG on this level, I’d rather do it the masterwork way, even if it means I get one pice of top level gear per week, at least I knew what I needed was guaranteed at the end of the grind. With this system though.... And what’s with all the tank mods in the new patch? If I wanted tank mods, I’d play tank. Sorry if this comes off like I’m a bit miffed, I really do love this game, but I can see this killing off a lot of the player base, just because someone seems to be insisting that RNG is the way forward, WHY?

[Pirana]

All I've received is tank gear, although I've only played PTS a couple of hours on my Gunslinger, still funny that's all I've looted.

 

What gets me is the vendor that will only be there a few days a week, and mix in the fact that the vendor is an RNG vendor. What kind of nutjob comes up with that idea... This isn't Vegas. The Command system was bad enough, but at least we were guaranteed to get the piece of equipment we were trying to purchase, that now becomes a coin flips chance.

 

I read Eric's post yesterday and the percentages are supposed to increase in the player's favor, I really hope so, because this is the most idiotic system I've seen in any mmo I've played and it will undoubtedly chase people away if the grind is too harsh.

 

The people behind the scenes at EAWare have continued to takes risks in the way they conduct their game since launch and almost nothing has paid off for them other than going FTP. There's some irony for ya. This current iteration is a good example that they've learned almost nothing. I'll continue to play and root for the game, but there's only so much people can handle before they move on.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Pirana

[Benirons]

Didnt do PTS yet, but i skimmed through the relevant feedback threads. Let me tell u, it looks very, very, very disheartening.

 

Random useless junk is dropping that the vast majority cannot even use on the toon/spec they r on. The vendors r expensive AF requiring hours and hours of mindless grind to buy a couple of - if even 1 piece of - again, random useless junk. Prices and crafting mats r sky high, and zeroes need to be removed.

 

I would like to play hardmare ops ASAP in the next expansion. It sounds like i first have to go through metric tons of stupid mindless grind for who knows how long to finally feel like im geared enough for this content. Not cool.

 

At this point i wish they just did away with all this RNG nonsense and gave us the good old gear tokens that we could turn in for whatever the heck we want. I dont know y they seem to think we all have dozens of hours a week on our hands to sink into this nonsense. The unsub button is looking very appealing right now if things dont end up drastically changing. Im hanging on by a thread as is.

[speedphlux]

This whole new "shells that have different set bonuses" and "tacticals" is just turning me off. Not to mention crafting which is an absolute RIP part of the game now. It looks like it'll become more tiresome then ever. Remember 5.0 launch and people farming Fractured to get to CR 300 ? Is this what we need to be doing in the launch of 6.0 as well ? Coz I ain't like that. Never played this game as it was a farming simulator. Sure, I'll push myself for a week or two to get reputation or an achievement, but I'll never farm a single piece of content, just so that I can get quickly over the trashy barriers they've put in my way.

 

Ridonkeylous !

[scardera]

This whole new "shells that have different set bonuses" and "tacticals" is just turning me off. Not to mention crafting which is an absolute RIP part of the game now. It looks like it'll become more tiresome then ever. Remember 5.0 launch and people farming Fractured to get to CR 300 ? Is this what we need to be doing in the launch of 6.0 as well ? Coz I ain't like that. Never played this game as it was a farming simulator. Sure, I'll push myself for a week or two to get reputation or an achievement, but I'll never farm a single piece of content, just so that I can get quickly over the trashy barriers they've put in my way.

 

Ridonkeylous !

 

100% people will run Hammer Station to gear....7 yrs after lauch the contend of 6.0 ladies and gentlemens . a RNG gearing system this is the end game contend

[xordevoreaux]

I read today on one of my guild's discord chat channels where one of my most ardent players and contributors to ops is feeling completely deflated about 6.0 and is losing interest in the game and won't play much going forward.

 

This is eerily a repeat of what happened for me in EQ2. I played it from 2004 - 2014 and was one of those die-hard hold-outs who stayed even when a lot of my guildies said screw this we're moving on to something else, but the futility of gearing finally hit me too and I had to stop.

 

The expansion where we went from level 90 to 95 in EQ2 got unconscionably stupid. I spent weeks trying to achieve the next tier gear rating, and then realized it was impossible when I found myself without enough guildies, or even enough people floating around on the server at all, to group up with for getting the better drops, I was stuck.

No way forward.

 

I really hope that doesn't happen in SWTOR, but every expansion sees its exodus.

 

Usually I'm a bit more of a white knight, and tell guildies just hang on until you see it for yourself, that we don't know until we know, but here is an entire PTS forum vomiting at the mouth how bad these changes are, and they're seeing it for themselves.

 

All I can do is hope for the best, I suppose, but if my advancement gets stuck in this game, too, with all my friends bailing ship for other games... guess we'll just see.

Edited September 6, 2019 by xordevoreaux

[Astromancy]

Sadly, even when RNG is one of the most hated things in the game, they chose to RNG nearly everything where it's virtually impossible to understand it and find a reasonable path to gearing-up. Does anyone have a better understanding of the logic behind the move to virtually complete RNG?

 

A thought crossed my mind: maybe this is an attempt by hidden-management to get enough people to quit playing so that they can justify shutting the game down thereby creating a larger pool of people who may play the new game? Thoughts or opinions, anyone?

[xordevoreaux]

they are working on it why another one of these doom and gloom threads ?

 

TLDR: There's more to this game than gearing, Thank God.

 

Details:

DOOOOOOOOM!!! (doom)

 

Cutting to the chase, these threads are initiated by people who somehow think they're in a position of scaring the Devs down another course. The "nobody will be left" argument I remember with releases 3, 4, and 5.

 

I left EQ2 because the gear grind got so stupid and tedious as to be just not worth my time and a lot of other people's, but I've a lot of guildies (and myself) taking a hard look at what's going on with PTS and when we're in Discord there's 10 other people in there hanging on every word we report back.

 

There is a collective groan, but we're all still wait-and-see.

EA would have to do something spectacularly stupid to rise (lower?) to the level that made me call BS on EQ2.

 

They haven't managed to do that in the last 3 major releases, I'm still here, and unlike EQ2, I can still toss lightning, toss rocks, toss lightsabers, and romance Theron, no matter how absurdly ridiculous it is to gear, so we're good.

Edited September 24, 2019 by xordevoreaux

[OlBuzzard]

IMO... could we at least see how the new PTS updates turn out before we stoke the fires ??

[Lhancelot]

I think the message is a tad convoluted, guys... It seems BW is still confused or unable to comprehend what it is you don't like about RNG. Maybe we need to create more threads on the topic.

[Wagerbane]

I've been playing since January 2012, through all the ups and downs in SWTOR. It's been a great game and community to be a part of.

 

With less support and content over the years, naturally the population has declined. But I was confident the game could still last years with the players we have now, and occasional bumps from expansions like what 6.0 will bring.

 

That was until I tested out the gearing on PTS a few days ago.

 

Without question, even with adjustments to RNG to make it more favorable to players, the new gearing system will essentially kill the population.

 

Will SWTOR still be around? I'd expect. But will it recover? I don't.

 

It's simply not enjoyable to run instances that have been in the game for 5-8 years to grind gear that has an extremely low probability of being what you need. To top it off, the new level-sync system for MM FPs and OPs has made getting through trash more time consuming. Crafting materials needed to make even the most basic things like Augments or low-level endgame gear aren't even kind of reasonable or in line with what the game has ever had in it.

 

Everything about level-cap play will be affected poorly. PVE and PVP stats won't be able to be tailored properly. Alt-play is severely restricted by the grind necessary to get even 1 character the appropriate gear for 1 type of endgame focus. Even Conquest points are back up to 50,000 for some reason.

 

I don't understand why the developers are going this route, but a lot of people will just play the story and quit when they realize what the endgame gearing situation is, if they haven't already heard from people testing. Unless the team are actually trying to merge all servers into 1 and sunset SWTOR, radical changes need to be made to how RNG can be mitigated to get what your character actually needs to play PVE and PVP properly on multiple characters and roles. Otherwise, I think the game folks have been playing since 2012 is essentially over.

 

I don't know if this is possible, but pushing back the expansion until later in the year or even January might be for the best, in order to figure out how to adjust the gearing process into something that won't lead to a mass exodus of players.

 

Many folks have problem to get inside the OP and flashpoint mission requires 4 to 8 player group and many will not wait on find players. Putting folks in a position to send private and general message for looking for players in a group is like stand around do nothing and look like protesters. Folks wanted OP and flashpoint now but it want let you inside unless you have 4 to 8 group. Why folks leave the game because OP and flashpoints want let them play. This is why DEV need to make something new for let players use 3 to 7 companions at the same time and called it PVE solo companion group. Sure it will bring more subscribe business and becomes populated. You don't have to grind and craft gear because DEV have gear vendor on planets. You called it RNG and this is the game for some folks. There will be enough cemeteries space with their name on their stone inside the game for those left. Happy Halloween.

[dipstik]

what do you think woud be fair drop rates?

 

20% chance of mod 4 ilvl above average

40% chance of mod 2 ilvl above average

40% chance of mod at ilvl average

 

? maybe this will help them.

 

nonmoddable gear is basically useless if you have a set bonus piece in that slot, so that could be a check.

 

they have to stop with the 21 variants of mods. getting A and B mods should only happen on a tank. high endurance dps/heal enhancements should not drop unless youre on a tank.

[Opiklo]

what do you think woud be fair drop rates?

 

20% chance of mod 4 ilvl above average

40% chance of mod 2 ilvl above average

40% chance of mod at ilvl average

 

? maybe this will help them.

 

nonmoddable gear is basically useless if you have a set bonus piece in that slot, so that could be a check.

 

they have to stop with the 21 variants of mods. getting A and B mods should only happen on a tank. high endurance dps/heal enhancements should not drop unless youre on a tank.

 

a fair drop rate would be tokens from ops bosses... everything else is just unacceptable....

[Kifusan]

They add rng and other silly time sinks to just keep us playing and paying, while they spend zero time or money on new content. New planet is a joke compare it to Tatooine, Alderaan etc., it is like a convoluted, walled-off warzone.

They should just end this game so maybe, maybe someone would make a better one, sandbox with zero rng, and real content.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Kifusan

[phalczen]

a fair drop rate would be tokens from ops bosses... everything else is just unacceptable....

 

I don't expect that to happen. I think they want to move away from tokens because they want to emphasize the "play your way" aspect. They want to transition to a system they can easily scale moving forward, instead of having to create tokens for each difficulty level for each tier. They want one currency for gear purchases for all playstyles. They also want reasonable incentives for people to try other content, and they want to avoid the situation where a group of 8 players does an op and several people in the raid get nothing.

 

In other words, they wanted a better version of the 5.0 Galactic Command.

 

They've already designed Kai Zykken to sell BiS when he shows up, so its just a matter of refining the new non-RNG vendor to have that BiS well. Then they have the Takatta vendor and the Renown crates for RNG.

 

Stop asking for stuff you know won't happen. As Dasty said here,

At risk of patting all testers and myself on the back (which I can't do since my Hutt arms are too short)...this is what the PTS was for, but now we need to focus on the FAR, FAR more salient issues.

 

Cost of items / ratio of drops / amount of tech fragments you can store.

 

For those of us on the PTS (and don't want to mindlessly bash BW), it should be patently clear: We have largely won the RNG battle since there is now a direct route to purchase. The battle now is different -- it is making sure the direct purchase route is not de facto irrelevant.

 

In other words, we have to provide the feedback on the fairness of the pricing of the gear on the non-RNG vendor and the acquisition of tech fragments.

 

And, the fairness of the crafting system.

[olagatonjedi]

I disagree with the OP. The game will be fine because the number of players that are passionately against RNG loot systems likely do not encompass a large portion of the playerbase. Most players go with the flow and arent bothered enough with changes to consider leaving the game. Player populations ebb and flow. People that left the game in 5.0 did not leave because the loot system. They left for a variety of other reasons, and the game still went on just fine because the majority of players continued to play the game they enjoy.

[FlameYOL]

I disagree with the OP. The game will be fine because the number of players that are passionately against RNG loot systems likely do not encompass a large portion of the playerbase. Most players go with the flow and arent bothered enough with changes to consider leaving the game. Player populations ebb and flow. People that left the game in 5.0 did not leave because the loot system. They left for a variety of other reasons, and the game still went on just fine because the majority of players continued to play the game they enjoy.

 

The game bled players and it wasn't until they started rolling back on the RNG and having Galactic Command be a supplementary gearing system that the playerbase finally stabilized. KOTET was my favorite expansion story-wise but CG and its implementation nearly made me quit.

[olagatonjedi]

The game bled players and it wasn't until they started rolling back on the RNG and having Galactic Command be a supplementary gearing system that the playerbase finally stabilized. KOTET was my favorite expansion story-wise but CG and its implementation nearly made me quit.

While i do recall an outcry by some, many of us did not notice any significant drop off in available activity within the game. Most of the "sky is falling/has fallen" was lip service, not action.

[FlameYOL]

While i do recall an outcry by some, many of us did not notice any significant drop off in available activity within the game. Most of the "sky is falling/has fallen" was lip service, not action.

Nope, my server went from having active queues to being dead within the first few months after KOTET dropped. Everybody was either quitting the game or switching to the Harbinger.