Bioware please put a stop to ToS Farming petition

[SushaBrancaleone]

Fellow swtor...ers(?) please help - this affects everyone: you might not be aware but recently the community (atleast on Darth Malgus server) has been troubled by what has been called ToS farming. I will further elaborate but before I do, please be advised that this is a formal request to Bioware to REMOVE conquest (and thus also xp) from boss adds like those spawned by Temple of Sacrifice first boss. My guild has since, and now other top conquest guilds, engaged extensively on such activity, and I will refrain from making names to avoid shaming as this post is not even concerned with the drama of rather to just resolve the issue by removing it. Conquest on Darth Malgus has since had top conquest guild scores reach previously unobtainable amounts of conquest points. My guild started doing this first, and while all smaller guilds have seen by consequence any chance to compete disappear the other top 2 guilds on server, have had no alternative but to start doing the same. What this effectively means is that players gather for ToS 1st boss 'conquest farming' and have done so for days on end and for more than 4-5hrs in a row. This has now gone on for 2 months, give or take, and has burnt our guild of all other activities. While we were always a more 'casual inclined' guild this has not only created a rift in guild between progress vs conquest inclined players. Aside from the drama (with accusations and posts of cheating between guilds) this has brought to, I am more concerned on any 'deductions' the DEVS might make of this and HEREBY CALL OUT TO ALL OF YOU TO SAY YOUR PIECE LEAST SWTOR MOVES TOWARDS MORE GRIND INCLINED CONTENT. This IS the petition, and imo the best way to bring attention to the matter. PLS post, tell friends to post and keep the attention on this post high so that the devs can make their call on actual feedback. Peace out, pizza and prosperity to you all! Edited September 6, 2019 by SushaBrancaleone

[CaptRogue]

SO you're basically asking BW to remove all conquest/XP points from bosses in Operations....

 

Um no...NOT signed. Just because some might be abusing the game (which is another matter I'll post on below), doesn't mean all of us who play the game need punished for their stupid mistakes.

 

Second: If you think this is wrong then you NEED to open a ticket & go in depth on it to CS so they can look into it. NOT FREAKING JOIN THEM IN DOING IT! Omgosh.

Can't beat em might as well join em mentality...No that's not how it works. There has been probs in the past about farming specific bosses & BW has fixed it so that it can't be done like that but left the points. *SMH*

[atillavb]

I agree with what the OP means. This only concerns the CXP/EXP/CQ gain on the adds you get while you're burning down the first boss Malaphar. It's not the exp/cxp/cq gain from the boss itself, just it's adds. Just as done with bestia's adds on dp's first boss, remove the exp/cxp/cq values from the adds that spawn in waves. Their purpose is to make the fight a little more entertaining than a straight up dummy parse; it doesn't need any cxp/exp/cq reward if you ask me, especially considering how easy it is to reset the boss by walking out of it's room. I'd say this is a case of 'it's not normal gameplay' where you don't kill the boss on purpose, not because of a wipe. Edited September 1, 2019 by atillavb

[MacCleoud]

Let me get this straight, YOUR guild started abusing a situation in game, and other followed suit in order to compete in conquest and now you want BioWare to step in? I think you May be right. However, I think your idea of removing XP and my idea of removing exploiters may differ. The only reason you are bringing this forward is because it has caused a rift in your guild, and with others who are saying you are cheating......which In the spirit of the game....you are.

 

Asking to have something removed from game so you don’t abuse it isn’t on the deva....it is on those abusing it....

Edited September 1, 2019 by MacCleoud

[atillavb]

Let me get this straight, YOUR guild started abusing a situation in game, and other followed suit in order to compete in conquest and now you want BioWare to step in? I think you May be right. However, I think your idea of removing XP and my idea of removing exploiters may differ. The only reason you are bringing this forward is because it has caused a rift in your guild, and with others who are saying you are cheating......which In the spirit of the game....you are.

 

Asking to have something removed from game so you don’t abuse it isn’t on the deva....it is on those abusing it....

 

The guild he's a member of. He is neither the initiator nor the one using this trick.

[MacCleoud]

The guild he's a member of. He is neither the initiator nor the one using this trick.

 

Thanks for the clarification. The responsibility is squarely on the guild(s) doing it still.

[Rion_Starkiller]

Fellow swtor...ers(?) please help - this affects everyone: you might not be aware but recently the community (atleast on Darth Malgus server) has been troubled by what has been called ToS farming. I will further elaborate but before I do, please be advised that this is a formal request to Bioware to REMOVE conquest (and thus also xp) from boss adds like those spawned by Temple of Sacrifice first boss. My guild has since, and now other top conquest guilds, engaged extensively on such activity, and I will refrain from making names to avoid shaming as this post is not even concerned with the drama of rather to just resolve the issue by removing it. Conquest on Darth Malgus has since had top conquest guild scores reach previously unobtainable amounts of conquest points. My guild started doing this first, and while all smaller guilds have seen by consequence any chance to compete disappear the other top 2 guilds on server, have had no alternative but to start doing the same. What this effectively means is that players gather for ToS 1st boss 'conquest farming' and have done so for days on end and for more than 4-5hrs in a row. This has now gone on for 2 months, give or take, and has burnt our guild of all other activities. While we were always a more 'casual inclined' guild this has not only created a rift in guild between progress vs conquest inclined players. Aside from the drama (with accusations and posts of cheating between guilds) this has brought to, I am more concerned on any 'deductions' the DEVS might make of this and HEREBY CALL OUT TO ALL OF YOU TO SAY YOUR PIECE LEAST SWTOR MOVES TOWARDS MORE GRIND INCLINED CONTENT. This IS the petition, and imo the best way to bring attention to the matter. PLS post, tell friends to post and keep the attention on this post high so that the devs can make their call on actual feedback. Peace out, pizza and prosperity to you all!

 

Interesting. I never would have guessed that those 3 adds that spawn would drop enough Conquests to be worthwhile. I wonder what Draxus and Corruptor Zero give out.

 

Anyway, this is an indication of what having no SM lockouts will be like. I imagine there will be Conquest and Renown farms in various operations/bosses.

[lord-angelus]

So you cheated first, and when someone else did the same just to compete with you and beat you in your own game you starting complaining and ask for removal?

Niceeeeee

[atillavb]

So you cheated first, and when someone else did the same just to compete with you and beat you in your own game you starting complaining and ask for removal?

Niceeeeee

 

Read first comment later.

[SushaBrancaleone]

I agree with what the OP means. This only concerns the CXP/EXP/CQ gain on the adds you get while you're burning down the first boss Malaphar. It's not the exp/cxp/cq gain from the boss itself, just it's adds. Just as done with bestia's adds on dp's first boss, remove the exp/cxp/cq values from the adds that spawn in waves. Their purpose is to make the fight a little more entertaining than a straight up dummy parse; it doesn't need any cxp/exp/cq reward if you ask me, especially considering how easy it is to reset the boss by walking out of it's room. I'd say this is a case of 'it's not normal gameplay' where you don't kill the boss on purpose, not because of a wipe.

 

ty agree completely, if it wasnt clear already

[SushaBrancaleone]

So you cheated first, and when someone else did the same just to compete with you and beat you in your own game you starting complaining and ask for removal?

Niceeeeee

 

I will take your reply as an opportunity to clarify that the post is not aimed at the guilds, rather at removing xp FROM BOSS ADDS. sorry for the caps, but as it was underlined and in bold characters in the initial thread it might not be clear enough so forgive me if im redundant.

 

On a side note. I personally have refrained from all such 'ops' since they have been about, and have voiced often my lack of support and participation towards it. Bioware has been aware all this time, we have been told, but that is not even the point. As has been pointed out, the solution proposed has already been applied in the past and this is just a request to stay the course.

Edited September 1, 2019 by SushaBrancaleone

[DreadtechSavant]

Not sure I understand either, are not bosses in Op's/FP's for the players fighting in the OP/FP's. Don't all members get the conquest points? Just because another guild is doing it more is neither here or there.

 

If so I don't see the issue, OK clearly I am misunderstanding something, but how players get conquest points should be up to them. It be like me asking BW to remove conquest points from Eyeless because I don't do group play. Ok there lots I don't do, maybe conquest points should only be gotten by doing heroics because well that's how I get mine along with rampage. OH yea forgot I'm in a small guild and can never get on the top ten, just not fair BW stop large guild doing conquests altogether. If BW remove this because you personally don't like it, there be a new thread every week with a player demanding XXX removed because of XXX reason.

 

Ok as said maybe I am missing something but to me what you are saying/ OP is not a exploit. You not likening it does not make it an exploit. Players can run ToS as much and as often as they can get players to run it with. The fact it gives a lot of conquest points is irrelevant. With things like this players will always do the things that get them the most points, which is no different to me doing stuff that get me the most GC points for a solo player. We can all find things in game that give unfair advantages to a set of players, very large guild will always have an advantage over other guilds, Don't see me complaining about my guild been unable to compete do you?

 

Sorry not signed.

Edited September 1, 2019 by DreadtechSavant

[SushaBrancaleone]

Not sure I understand either, are not bosses in Op's/FP's for the players fighting in the OP/FP's. Don't all members get the conquest points? Just because another guild is doing it more is neither here or there.

 

If so I don't see the issue, OK clearly I am misunderstanding something, but how players get conquest points should be up to them. It be like me asking BW to remove conquest points from Eyeless because I don't do group play. Ok there lots I don't do, maybe conquest points should only be gotten by doing heroics because well that's how I get mine along with rampage. OH yea forgot I'm in a small guild and can never get on the top ten, just not fair BW stop large guild doing conquests altogether. If BW remove this because you personally don't like it, there be a new thread every week with a player demanding XXX removed because of XXX reason.

 

Ok as said maybe I am missing something but to me what you are saying/ OP is not a exploit. You not likening it does not make it an exploit. Players can run ToS as much and as often as they can get players to run it with. The fact it gives a lot of conquest points is irrelevant. With things like this players will always do the things that get them the most points, which is no different to me doing stuff that get me the most GC points for a solo player. We can all find things in game that give unfair advantages to a set of players, very large guild will always have an advantage over other guilds, Don't see me complaining about my guild been unable to compete do you?

 

Sorry not signed.

 

they are not killing any bosses. the activity consists in going to the first boss engaging it, killing its adds ONLY and restarting the boss fight before it dies. rinse & repeat hour on end.

Edited September 1, 2019 by SushaBrancaleone

[Pirana]

they are not killing any bosses. the activity consists in going to the first boss engaging it, killing its adds ONLY and restarting the boss fight before it dies. rinse & repeat hour on end.

 

If this is all they're doing, I see nothing wrong with it. If that's how they want to spend their game time, let them. Myself, I would rather spend my game time actually doing something fun and not something as boring and redundant as this.

Edited September 1, 2019 by Pirana

[DreadtechSavant]

they are not killing any bosses. the activity consists in going to the first boss engaging it, killing its adds ONLY and restarting the boss fight before it dies. rinse & repeat hour on end.

 

As said you may not like it, but it's not an exploit. There is already a president for this, many just went to CZ where the rats are, killed, reset killed, reset. for rampage. It was reported at the time BW did not do anything about it. As such was not considered an exploit. This is the same thing.

 

Now you have nothing to lose by asking, that's up to you. What if anything BW do about is up to them. If other players support your petition that up to them. I not here to tell others what to think or do. I personally don't support your petition. BW are more than free to look into my account and see I have never done ToS ever, not even once so am not gaining by this. My guild is family only and we are all solo players. So my guild does not do this either. in-fact we have only reach the planet target twice since the revamp.

Edited September 2, 2019 by DreadtechSavant

[JattaGin]

Interesting. I never would have guessed that those 3 adds that spawn would drop enough Conquests to be worthwhile. I wonder what Draxus and Corruptor Zero give out.

 

Anyway, this is an indication of what having no SM lockouts will be like. I imagine there will be Conquest and Renown farms in various operations/bosses.

 

I'm not sure that you're talking about the same thing.

 

The adds in this 1st fight in ToS are unlimited in number. And every single one gives points. You keep a tank on the boss and a healer on the tank. The others just kill the adds. For hours and hours. I did this once to help guildies when they called out for help. I didn't know what they were actually calling for until the fight. I thought they do a regular ToS run. It was one of the most boring things I've ever done in my life.

 

Honestly, I think whoever is able to keep doing this for 5 hours in a row deserves those points. It's their choice what they want to do with their lives. I'd rather drill a hole in my knee and fill milk inside than doing that again.

[atillavb]

If so I don't see the issue, OK clearly I am misunderstanding something, but how players get conquest points should be up to them. It be like me asking BW to remove conquest points from Eyeless because I don't do group play. Ok there lots I don't do, maybe conquest points should only be gotten by doing heroics because well that's how I get mine along with rampage. OH yea forgot I'm in a small guild and can never get on the top ten, just not fair BW stop large guild doing conquests altogether. If BW remove this because you personally don't like it, there be a new thread every week with a player demanding XXX removed because of XXX reason.

 

How do you explain they removed the exp/cxp/cq points from Bestia's adds (the first boss on DP), that they removed the cxp gain from adds on KP, and how they lowered the exp gain from adds on the imperial heroic on balmorra where you can kill colicoids indefinately. They've removed exp/cxp/cq gains before if it's used in a way that's not defined as normal gameplay, as in; not how the developers had it in mind. This petition is very realistic and the issue must be known with the devs. It's likely they will take action one way or another, especially because it's only about adds in a boss fight, not the boss itself. They could even compensate it by making the gains from killing the boss a few %'s higher.

Edited September 2, 2019 by atillavb

[Pirana]

Honestly, I think whoever is able to keep doing this for 5 hours in a row deserves those points. It's their choice what they want to do with their lives. I'd rather drill a hole in my knee and fill milk inside than doing that again.

 

That's pretty much how I feel about it. There's no way you're getting me to do that for hours and hours regardless of the payoff. You could have a billion credits at the end of that carrot stick, and you're still not getting me to run that mundane nonsense, guild assistance or not.

 

As mentioned above, if the devs see this as an issue, then by all means, change it, but until then, they're doing nothing wrong.

[Celise]

Fellow swtor...ers(?) please help - this affects everyone: you might not be aware but recently the community (atleast on Darth Malgus server) has been troubled by what has been called ToS farming. I will further elaborate but before I do, please be advised that this is a formal request to Bioware to REMOVE conquest (and thus also xp) from boss adds like those spawned by Temple of Sacrifice first boss. My guild has since, and now other top conquest guilds, engaged extensively on such activity, and I will refrain from making names to avoid shaming as this post is not even concerned with the drama of rather to just resolve the issue by removing it. Conquest on Darth Malgus has since had top conquest guild scores reach previously unobtainable amounts of conquest points. My guild started doing this first, and while all smaller guilds have seen by consequence any chance to compete disappear the other top 2 guilds on server, have had no alternative but to start doing the same. What this effectively means is that players gather for ToS 1st boss 'conquest farming' and have done so for days on end and for more than 4-5hrs in a row. This has now gone on for 2 months, give or take, and has burnt our guild of all other activities. While we were always a more 'casual inclined' guild this has not only created a rift in guild between progress vs conquest inclined players. Aside from the drama (with accusations and posts of cheating between guilds) this has brought to, I am more concerned on any 'deductions' the DEVS might make of this and HEREBY CALL OUT TO ALL OF YOU TO SAY YOUR PIECE LEAST SWTOR MOVES TOWARDS MORE GRIND INCLINED CONTENT. This IS the petition, and imo the best way to bring attention to the matter. PLS post, tell friends to post and keep the attention on this post high so that the devs can make their call on actual feedback. Peace out, pizza and prosperity to you all!

 

If you knew it was a problem as soon as you started it, you should of reported it to Eric on the first attempt and put a ticket in with CS about it. Did you do this? If not, why not?

[SushaBrancaleone]

If you knew it was a problem as soon as you started it, you should of reported it to Eric on the first attempt and put a ticket in with CS about it. Did you do this? If not, why not?

 

because the guild tried to deal with it internally, many officers in the past 2 months have voiced against this and have been ignored, many resigned (atleast 1 officer -others left - and 1 council member). I have not been an officer since before that, and have decided to speak out yesterday after the recurring discussion (after having stayed as far as possible thus far- from the activity rather than the debate-).

 

Also, and having being told Bioware was aware of this I was expecting them to solve the problem by eventually applying the same fix that had been done with Brontes (correct me if I'm wrong).

So

1 why open a ticket for something that isn't an exploit (so i was told)?

2 while I tend towards not appreciating Tos farming, it is not up to me to find a solution, usually devs take feedback and then make their own choice (rightfully - or not), this thread is about letting devs know what users feel about this, the opportunity is for all to take or lose.

 

As in the following month the debate resulted in inter-guild arguments and spy posts, (I also feel this is witch-hunting btw and have refrained from involving myself) I also was one of the few to speak against other guilds leaders jumping on our discord and discussing 'ToS farming'. Hence as we lost another officer last week, and 2 days ago another officer tried to express himself against, and so did previous guild leaders, and all were ignored I felt it was hightime somebody actually put this out there, as for example this has alienated all not conquest inclined players from our guild.

 

As to me, im happy raiding, proceed outside of guilds and have never really engaged in conquest. The issue has however been intentionally been kept low profile till now, and i am here to share info with the community, I know that the internet is very much like sparta and that diplomats are responsible for what they say and that is why i'm here now. pizza and prosperity!

Edited September 3, 2019 by SushaBrancaleone

[Ardrossan]

My read of your post is:

 

1) you saw something potentially bad happening in your guild.

2) You brought it up as a problem in your guild to discuss internally.

3) You were ignored, problem still occurring.

4) Some debate whether or not this is really an exploit

5) You're bringing it to the community, knowing how wise and understanding we are.

 

You're supposed to lol at the last one. Because it's a dumb idea. You complain about people demanding evidence, shaming...what did you expect? For us to nod our heads sagely? To sympathize with you? Have...have you been on this forum very long?

 

I'm in a big conquest guild, and if I became aware that my guild was doing this, I would do one of two things:

 

1) Leave the guild

2) Send a note to Eric / make an in-game ticket.

 

tbh, I would probably just leave and hope the problem sorts itself out in my absence. I wouldn't want to complain either, so I understand why you don't. I don't understand why you think bringing it to the community's attention in a gen forum post is a better alternative, since if by some miracle the devs do look at it, they'll know you were aware of this and didn't report it.

[SushaBrancaleone]

My read of your post is:

 

1) you saw something potentially bad happening in your guild.

2) You brought it up as a problem in your guild to discuss internally.

3) You were ignored, problem still occurring.

4) Some debate whether or not this is really an exploit

5) You're bringing it to the community, knowing how wise and understanding we are.

 

You're supposed to lol at the last one. Because it's a dumb idea. You complain about people demanding evidence, shaming...what did you expect? For us to nod our heads sagely? To sympathize with you? Have...have you been on this forum very long?

 

I'm in a big conquest guild, and if I became aware that my guild was doing this, I would do one of two things:

 

1) Leave the guild

2) Send a note to Eric / make an in-game ticket.

 

tbh, I would probably just leave and hope the problem sorts itself out in my absence. I wouldn't want to complain either, so I understand why you don't. I don't understand why you think bringing it to the community's attention in a gen forum post is a better alternative, since if by some miracle the devs do look at it, they'll know you were aware of this and didn't report it.

 

well this is assuming guilds mean anything these days. and I'm not trolling - let me elaborate before i get to the point

- ALL my +hm op activity has come not from my guild - i raid with several guilds and different pug groups all interguild, and its not like I invented the system. On regards, I have done some good progress but its besides the point.

- I haven't participated by principle in any guild stuff for months even before ToS farming, and however can still appreciate some parts of that community. I'm not responsible for what other do, collectively or not, and honestly BIO has had the last 2 months of conquests as solid data on regards. If you've even checked the # lately they put to shame world records submitted just a few months previous (and optained during xp boost events). Ofc info from pts is that the new player cap will be 50k instead of 15k but we will have to see if that is a fix.

As to why I posted? No i don't expect any swift solution nor do i particularly want it (as i said i cater for myself and never really cared for conquest), but these are the official forums and the correct way to have this discussion if it is to be had, at-least that way the cryptic sophism's chucked about are for all to read.

 

Just to be clear there is no need to warn eric, if not him the issue is known of and easily detectable.

 

Edit: Also be advised discord operation announcement channels are spammed with requests of helping guild tos farm for conquest, the implications are that many dont even know what it means, and a lot of new players with 0 raid experience are lulled into doing this hours on end and day after day, all in the name of hoarding digital mats, which, atm are also devaluating incredibly in sight of onslaught

 

Edit2: As to Bio seeking proof or knowing of, first of all the activity has been (we were told) tagged as NOT EXPLOITING, hence requires no reporting, secondly, considering the recent PVP banwaves for wintrading and Eric's latest announcements, LET me just say that finding proof for wintrading is much harder to get than it would to see something happening in plain sight and which they have been approached and asked of. Really the only way you wouldn't wander what is happening on Darth Malgus Conquest in the last 2 months is if you haven't checked it (fyi I often don't ) and that shouldn't (and isn't) be the case for devs of a game.

Edited September 3, 2019 by SushaBrancaleone

[ivanhedgehog]

because the guild tried to deal with it internally, many officers in the past 2 months have voiced against this and have been ignored, many resigned (atleast 1 officer -others left - and 1 council member). I have not been an officer since before that, and have decided to speak out yesterday after the recurring discussion (after having stayed as far as possible thus far- from the activity rather than the debate-).

 

Also, and having being told Bioware was aware of this I was expecting them to solve the problem by eventually applying the same fix that had been done with Brontes (correct me if I'm wrong).

So

1 why open a ticket for something that isn't an exploit (so i was told)?

2 while I tend towards not appreciating Tos farming, it is not up to me to find a solution, usually devs take feedback and then make their own choice (rightfully - or not), this thread is about letting devs know what users feel about this, the opportunity is for all to take or lose.

 

As in the following month the debate resulted in inter-guild arguments and spy posts, (I also feel this is witch-hunting btw and have refrained from involving myself) I also was one of the few to speak against other guilds leaders jumping on our discord and discussing 'ToS farming'. Hence as we lost another officer last week, and 2 days ago another officer tried to express himself against, and so did previous guild leaders, and all were ignored I felt it was hightime somebody actually put this out there, as for example this has alienated all not conquest inclined players from our guild.

 

As to me, im happy raiding, proceed outside of guilds and have never really engaged in conquest. The issue has however been intentionally been kept low profile till now, and i am here to share info with the community, I know that the internet is very much like sparta and that diplomats are responsible for what they say and that is why i'm here now. pizza and prosperity!

 

so they didnt agree with you so you will go to the forums to get the devs to break what they are doing. Rather than just quitting the guild. Its one way of getting your way. assuming they dont kick you for attempting to sabotage them. I have never done this behavior, havent been in TOS since probably march. I dont see it as a problem myself, just another opportunity for bioware to alienate more of its subscriber base.

[SushaBrancaleone]

so they didnt agree with you so you will go to the forums to get the devs to break what they are doing. Rather than just quitting the guild. Its one way of getting your way. assuming they dont kick you for attempting to sabotage them. I have never done this behavior, havent been in TOS since probably march. I dont see it as a problem myself, just another opportunity for bioware to alienate more of its subscriber base.

 

you seem to think im the only one who didn't want Tos farming in the guild. Did you miss the part where i mentioned we lost a council member and atleast 2 officers, not mentioning activities of officers who are disenchanted?

[ivanhedgehog]

you seem to think im the only one who didn't want Tos farming in the guild. Did you miss the part where i mentioned we lost a council member and atleast 2 officers, not mentioning activities of officers who are disenchanted?

 

you are the one that brought a guild disagreement to the forums to try and get the devs to make them play the way you wanted them too. It doesnt matter what the "community" thinks, what matters is if you can get the devs to respond with a nerf.