So TOXIC In Ranked Warzone Devs Need To Look Into This

[TrixxieTriss]

 

https://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct

 

I think the rules of conduct might have been updated since I read them last. There is a lot more in them now and they are more detailed with less ambiguity on some topics.

[TrixxieTriss]

Yeah, he changes his name every now and then. Always confused me why some people do that.

 

They give themselves a bad rep from being a douche and change it. But they stupidly don’t realise that if you’ve got them on a friends list you still know who they are.

 

Or

 

The name gets reported as breaking the rules and they get a forced change.

[TrixxieTriss]

Sadly friend as much as it sucks unless they are deliberately targeting you and harrassing you even after the Ranked instances is finished then no sadly there is not much you can do about it as Freedom of speech even online is somewhat still a big thing. My best option for you would to just turn off chat or ignore that individual as this is what those functions are for. Unless it clearly violates the terms of agreement with SWTOR otherwise not much can be done.

 

Actually if they are going that far to harass them, then they can be reported and will be punished by Bioware.

[JediMasterAlex]

I did sports my whole life (even now) and, honestly, they always taught as sportmanship -You are competing with yourself, not others- so I try to apply that on my life in general, no exceptions. Sometimes we are all triggered with some guy who gets globalled or mat farmers, but I agree: the level of toxicity is really insane. What I do is imagine fat nerds angry cause they lose and I laugh.

 

I see you flag people and talk **** all the time dude lol

[TrixxieTriss]

I see you flag people and talk **** all the time dude lol

 

People flagging my own team twists my nips. It’s usually an instant leave for me in regs or ranked.

[alasamaya]

I see you flag people and talk **** all the time dude lol

 

You are totally wrong, I dont even have flags in any inventory. The only guy who I used a flag on the past was on the god Birdguano.

[Storm-Cutter]

Maybe its better to leave the WZ, explaining to the remaining players why you did so.

 

"Sry, but I'm leaving because player xxx is/was/has been offensive. I no loner wish to group up with such people."

 

Hopefully the offending player will see the error of their ways. - or the remaining players will blame player xx for leaving them in a 3v4 WZ.

 

I've done it a couple of times. I got some supportive whispers after, and a load of abuse from xx. - Which prompted me to ignore player(s) xx.

 

I'm not bothered about rating any more I'm here for fun and entertainment and to build friendships with sensible other players. But if I was [bothered about rating] then 1 refused match isn't going to adversely affect it.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Storm-Cutter

[JediMasterAlex]

You are totally wrong, I dont even have flags in any inventory. The only guy who I used a flag on the past was on the god Birdguano.

 

OK, this will be outing myself to you, but you literally flag me every time you beat me lol. It's quite pathetic. I can start taking screenshots of it if you want. You're the only person that regularly flags me.

 

Maybe its better to leave the WZ, explaining to the remaining players why you did so.

 

That is a terrible suggestion. Quitting the game because you can't handle what someone said to you is unacceptable if you're in a ranked game. That would be the equivalent of a professional athlete just leaving the court and going home because an opponent talked trash. Would that seem acceptable to you?

 

And to be clear, if you leave a ranked game because of what someone said to you, you are the person in the wrong. What you've done is not a proportionate response, not to mention the fact that you're punishing two other innocent bystanders, and you're even ruining the game for the opponents, who just get a lopsided victory.

 

This is the only kind of scenario when I will whisper someone after a game. If you quit a ranked game that I was in, I absolutely would be whispering you with something like "why the **** did you leave." If you responded "boohoo, that guy was mean to me," I would tell you that you're the ******e for leaving, not him.

 

And if you go into ranked with the attitude that you don't care about rating, you don't belong in ranked. Ranked is for serious competition, not happy cuddle time where people massage your feelings.

Edited August 15, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[AlrikFassbauer]

That is a terrible suggestion. Quitting the game because you can't handle what someone said to you is unacceptable if you're in a ranked game. That would be the equivalent of a professional athlete just leaving the court and going home because an opponent talked trash. Would that seem acceptable to you?

 

So, harassment is to you something one has to endure.

 

You are comparing apples with peas. In normal sports, no-one does trash talking if led by good group leaders. Because if you tradh talk someone, it mirrors back on you. And professionals know that.

 

Here, in the newspapers, the level of harassment goes even so far that even the referees are gertting trash talked and attecked brute force (read . fists) in soccer/football matches. and you sound as if that is acceptable for you.

 

 

 

 

Ranked is for serious competition, not happy cuddle time where people massage your feelings.

 

So, trash talk = serious competition ?

 

Sounds to me so.

 

In RL, people are using what they learn in video games into RL. And that means : Insulting and trash talking is pretty normal. the OTHER has to endure that, no matter how much drunk the trash talker is. And if someone tells the trash talker how bad trash talking is - a fist in the face settles the score towards the trash talker. The newspapers are full of that.

 

Right now, the newspapers are having more and more reports of people taking what they learn in PvP into RL, inclisive trash talking, and globalling weaker ones. One young man was kicking one homeless man down, so that he had to be brought into an hospital, and he filmed that and put it online. Beating weaker people - usually in groups of 5-10 - has become some kind of new RL sport. And I'm sure these young men learned that in PvP : Globalling people, beating weaker ones, and insulting and trash talking others is fully acceptable.

 

In my opinion, you are overly neive in that you just cannot see that what people learn in PvP - and that ESPECIALLY means its bad sides ! - is being transported into RL. You really have no idea in how far that already has been transported into RL !

[JediMasterAlex]

So, harassment is to you something one has to endure.

 

Trash talking in pvp is not harassment. If someone is truly harassing you in-game via whispers, you can ignore them and report them.

 

You are comparing apples with peas. In normal sports, no-one does trash talking if led by good group leaders. Because if you tradh talk someone, it mirrors back on you. And professionals know that.

 

Wrong. People trash talk in the NBA all the time. Michael Jordan, the best player of all time, was a notorious trash talker, just for one example.

 

Here, in the newspapers, the level of harassment goes even so far that even the referees are gertting trash talked and attecked brute force (read . fists) in soccer/football matches. and you sound as if that is acceptable for you.

 

In RL, people are using what they learn in video games into RL. And that means : Insulting and trash talking is pretty normal. the OTHER has to endure that, no matter how much drunk the trash talker is. And if someone tells the trash talker how bad trash talking is - a fist in the face settles the score towards the trash talker. The newspapers are full of that.

 

Right now, the newspapers are having more and more reports of people taking what they learn in PvP into RL, inclisive trash talking, and globalling weaker ones. One young man was kicking one homeless man down, so that he had to be brought into an hospital, and he filmed that and put it online. Beating weaker people - usually in groups of 5-10 - has become some kind of new RL sport. And I'm sure these young men learned that in PvP : Globalling people, beating weaker ones, and insulting and trash talking others is fully acceptable.

 

In my opinion, you are overly neive in that you just cannot see that what people learn in PvP - and that ESPECIALLY means its bad sides ! - is being transported into RL. You really have no idea in how far that already has been transported into RL !

 

This part is just ridiculous. You're drawing a correlation between talking trash in a video game and real life violence. Do you work for Fox news?

[foxmob]

You are comparing apples with peas.!

 

this made me smile. I'm not sure if it's just a slip of translation or that's a german(?) saying, but it was damn funny to see "peas" where the familiar saying is apples to oranges.

[Raansu]

Trash talking in pvp is not harassment. If someone is truly harassing you in-game via whispers, you can ignore them and report them.

 

99.9% of the "trash talk" in ranked is people typing expletives, telling people to uninstall, to stop queuing ranked, abusing the idle vote kick feature etc....That's not trash talk, that's being toxic.

[JediMasterAlex]

99.9% of the "trash talk" in ranked is people typing expletives, telling people to uninstall, to stop queuing ranked, abusing the idle vote kick feature etc....That's not trash talk, that's being toxic.

 

"Toxic" is quite a variable term. No two people define it the same way, and one person's toxic is another's constructive criticism.

 

Also, abusing the vote kick feature is completely different from merely typing to people. Kicking people just because they're considered bad is inexcusable and reprehensible.

Edited August 15, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Raansu]

"Toxic" is quite a variable term. No two people define it the same way, and one person's toxic is another's constructive criticism.

 

Also, abusing the vote kick feature is completely different from merely typing to people. Kicking people just because they're considered bad is inexcusable and reprehensible.

 

Toxic is not a variable term. If you're cussing someone out or degrading them in any way you are being toxic. If you're giving criticism to someone and they take it a certain way its likely that criticism wasn't very constructive.

[laiboch]

I find it interesting that granked players bring up the slow queue and lack of matches, but then try to shift blame when people bring up issues that cause that slow queue. Granked is toxic. Even regs are toxic to a point and there are many issues that contribute to the issue from game issues such as poor balance to people feeling they can just get away with being toxic because they know Bioware is slow to act, if they act at all.

 

Perhaps its time for granked players to start policing the action of their fellow granked players and start kicking players that are disrespectful and toxic. It might also help if they gave constructive advice to new players joining granked instead of going out of their way to trash talk and insult them.

 

Just my 2 creds.

[JediMasterAlex]

Toxic is not a variable term. If you're cussing someone out or degrading them in any way you are being toxic. If you're giving criticism to someone and they take it a certain way its likely that criticism wasn't very constructive.

 

Totally ridiculous. "Cussing" at someone is automatically "toxic"? If someone was offended by my criticism it wasn't constructive? It's much more likely that if you're offended by what someone says to you, you are way too sensitive. Again, I'll refer you to the principles of free speech.

 

By the way, this debate has already happened in this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=961224

 

I'll summarize for you. There is no agreed upon definition of what is toxic. You cannot define it by how someone "takes it." I could provide everyone in game with a list of 100 statements in context and have them categorize them as toxic or not toxic, and no two people would come back with the same results.

 

For example, do you think it's toxic to tell someone who gets globaled in several matches in a row "stop queueing ranked bud, go practice your dcds in regs"? In my opinion that's not toxic at all, but others clearly think it is. And that doesn't make them right, it's just their overly sensitive opinion.

 

The fact that all of this stuff even needs to be said continually blows my mind. Peoples' impulses to silence others they don't agree with genuinely disgusts me.

Edited August 15, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[JediMasterAlex]

I find it interesting that granked players bring up the slow queue and lack of matches, but then try to shift blame when people bring up issues that cause that slow queue. Granked is toxic. Even regs are toxic to a point and there are many issues that contribute to the issue from game issues such as poor balance to people feeling they can just get away with being toxic because they know Bioware is slow to act, if they act at all.

 

Perhaps its time for granked players to start policing the action of their fellow granked players and start kicking players that are disrespectful and toxic. It might also help if they gave constructive advice to new players joining granked instead of going out of their way to trash talk and insult them.

 

No one in this thread is talking about granked. Granked isn't toxic; granked is dead.

[Seterade]

popcorn anyone?

[laiboch]

No one in this thread is talking about granked. Granked isn't toxic; granked is dead.

 

I just lump them into the same basic category as I have stopped playing both so my apologies for not being a bit more precise in my statement. Its almost like I went into a ranked match with a piece of PVE gear I was in the process of swapping out right before some toxic player freaked out about it in ops chat wanting me kicked out of the match.

 

Solo ranked and granked is all the same. You run into the same toxic people with the same attitudes that abuse people in the same way. Even when you do a better job than they do, getting better stats and contribute more. Personally I hope raked as a whole collapses and the players scream at Bioware enough that they actually do something.

[UltraFlashStar]

SR is, at its heart, competitive and competition can bring out the best...and the worst in people. It's just something that you're going to have to cope with if you want to queue and not lose sanity/heart because not everyone queues SR just for 'fun'. Of course, there are some that take trash-talk or criticism too far, and those should get reported as I have seen such players get banned (albeit temporarily) for their behavior. From my experience however, the queue is not as toxic as it was in seasons past.

 

I understand how unpleasant SR can be to those who are either (or both) new to SR or far from an expert in their class. Ask anyone who's at the top of the leaderboards how they started and I guarantee most of them will say they had to suffer from similar growing pains as well. If toxicity becomes too much to bear, just put the bad apples on your ignore list, ask/whisper another teammate what the instructions are and keep grinding away.

 

The main problem that I have with imploring the Devs to 'crack down' on toxicity is that the term is nebulous. What is toxic to one may not be considered so to someone else, making it impossible for a group of Devs to discern such behavior responsibly and reliably.

 

This is the best answer that OP is gonna find.

[laiboch]

I'll summarize for you. There is no agreed upon definition of what is toxic. You cannot define it by how someone "takes it." I could provide everyone in game with a list of 100 statements in context and have them categorize them as toxic or not toxic, and no two people would come back with the same results..

 

Toxic - Adjective used to describe usually very negative person, that ***** about everything, spread unnecessary hate or just talk **** about others. You can meet these people in any online game community and they are the main coin of online gaming. - Urban Dictionary.

 

Looks like there is a definition.. Websters contains the following as well: extremely harsh, malicious, or harmful.

 

While I did enjoy your free speech bit in there it falls a bit flat seeing as people agreed to (and bioware likes to remind you of) general code of conduct guidelines and as such it is a facile argument.

[JediMasterAlex]

Solo ranked and granked is all the same. You run into the same toxic people with the same attitudes that abuse people in the same way. Even when you do a better job than they do, getting better stats and contribute more.

 

That has never been my experience of solo ranked. And I play solo ranked virtually every day.

 

Toxic - Adjective used to describe usually very negative person, that ***** about everything, spread unnecessary hate or just talk **** about others. You can meet these people in any online game community and they are the main coin of online gaming. - Urban Dictionary.

 

Looks like there is a definition.. Websters contains the following as well: extremely harsh, malicious, or harmful.

 

Urban dictionary is literally one person's opinion... And "extremely harsh, malicious, or harmful" also demand interpretation when it comes to particular potential "toxic" phrases. Ultimately such definitions are not very helpful, People will still disagree on what qualifies as "toxic."

 

While I did enjoy your free speech bit in there it falls a bit flat seeing as people agreed to (and bioware likes to remind you of) general code of conduct guidelines and as such it is a facile argument.

 

I've said it several times and I'll say it again: Bioware can do whatever it wants. When I talk about free speech, I have never implied that Bioware is bound by it. All I ever say is that Bioware would do well to follow the principles of free speech as much as possible.

[Floplag]

i have to kind of laugh at the "variable" definition of toxic arguments.

There isnt a lot of gray area in insulting one lineage, telling them to play in a burning house, or experiment with self exercised physical gratification.

Im not going to list more specific examples here to risk ban but none of the things i see people saying in streams or from personal experience were particularly variable in intent or meaning.

Regardless, variable toxicity, is still toxicity, and its still the wrong move.

Additionally, confusing toxicity with trash talk, is a blatant deflection. Trash talk is competitive, the items listed above are not. This is just a reach to justify it.

[JediMasterAlex]

i have to kind of laugh at the "variable" definition of toxic arguments.

There isnt a lot of gray area in insulting one lineage, telling them to play in a burning house, or experiment with self exercised physical gratification.

Im not going to list more specific examples here to risk ban but none of the things i see people saying in streams or from personal experience were particularly variable in intent or meaning.

Regardless, variable toxicity, is still toxicity, and its still the wrong move.

Additionally, confusing toxicity with trash talk, is a blatant deflection. Trash talk is competitive, the items listed above are not. This is just a reach to justify it.

 

I never said every phrase would be debatable. There are some things that cross the line, as I've said many times. Surely blatant racism, telling people to kill themselves, etc are universally recognized as toxic. Those are clearly not the sort of ambiguous statements that I'm talking about.

 

And it's not a deflection. The point is, what you and I consider competitive trash talk will be considered toxic by someone else. And that's why the word "toxic" itself is rather useless.

[Floplag]

I never said every phrase would be debatable. There are some things that cross the line, as I've said many times. Surely blatant racism, telling people to kill themselves, etc are universally recognized as toxic. Those are clearly not the sort of ambiguous statements that I'm talking about.

 

And it's not a deflection. The point is, what you and I consider competitive trash talk will be considered toxic by someone else. And that's why the word "toxic" itself is rather useless.

 

We both know the kinds of things were talking about here, and you are splitting hairs as it were and hiding behind the obvious.

Telling someone they are terrible using more more colorful wording, or that the should be intimate with a family member or themselves, or playing in a burning building, of the usual favorite please never queue again... none of this would rise to the level of toxic to you? really? If none of this does then by all means tell me what you think does?