New player here, kicked for viewing the conversations in a fp..

[RaithHarth]

Personally I always have a habit of watching the cut scenes myself and I've been here since launch back in 2011, if the group don't like it, then that's just too bad. Edited July 28, 2019 by RaithHarth

[MikeCobalt]

This is another reason I've railed against that coin and considering the reason it was created to begin with (To Speed new people to B***s Zakuul side story) is "Lonngg Passtt" even though its still creating similar problems now it has minimal upsides and yet it's downsides keep going on same as before. I can Imagine *assuming a level 65 player has already seen everything but the further *Assumption that they "Only Care about the Money and Not the Meat of the FlashPoint" is a bit of an unfounded insult especially considering this is a BioWare game that still advertises itself as a Story Based game. The "Story" players have became the unwanted few in a game designed for the Story Players.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I'm sure all of this is why the most recent flashpoints don't have any cut scenes when you're playing them as repeatable content and not main story.

 

I think the idea of a story queue where you agree to watch the cut scenes that was mentioned is a good one, but I also think the waits for that one would be long, and there's no guarantee that anyone would play by the rules even if they'd queued up that way.

 

It returns to creating story/solo modes for every flashpoint. I don't think there would be much required to create a story mode from the others. Players here have said that before the flashpoints were all locked to level 70, it was possible to solo them if your character were overleveled. Perhaps switching those flashpoints back to whatever their original levels were would create the "solo mode" for them.

 

For the ones that require several players to work simultaneously to defeat a boss or something else (I think that is Collicoid War Games and Lost Island, and in Kaon and Cademimu there are some long stuns that usually seem to require another player's assistance to break), we know they were able to adjust that mechanism for solo play for the Section X H4, so it's doable.

 

So they do that, and they add a warning in group finder queuing that if you want to see the cut scenes you should go to solo mode and not veteran or MM, and that should help solve this issue for both sides.

[kirorx]

You should really play a character from level 1. The tokens have to skip the old content, so you dont get to play the class story.

 

The class story is a lot of fun, it would be a shame to miss out on it. Plus you get titles and stuff playing through that storyline.

 

Some people dont have patience, and while I prefer to space bar through conversations, if its not master mode, then I dont mind.

[theriomorphic]

Personally I always have a habit of watching the cut scenes myself and I've been here since launch back in 2011, if the group don't like it, then that's just too bad.

 

Ah there it is; the typical cutscene watcher attitude I expect. If you don't care about my time, why would I care about yours? I'd 100% vote yes to kick for that attitude, and that'd be just too bad.

[Tsillah]

"Fixing" the desire to do speed runs would likely mean near-dead queues (like master mode queue pop rate), since the main remaining reason for them popping is the rewards tied to repetition of easy content. In other words, you give the speed demons a reason to go away, probably won't be much left.

 

I disagree with your assessment of my comments and your view that there is nothing to fix.

 

I wasn't talking about fixing the desire to do speed runs. That's not something you can fix in a person, however, you can choose not to encourage or enable it.

 

The whole problem is with how it's rewarded as it is and that's part of what needs fixing. In essence no matter what you do, content needs to feel rewarding. Making everything easier and faster doesn't make it more rewarding. Making a system that nobody really wanted of in-game RNG lootboxes also doesn't make it feel rewarding.

 

Part of the problem is also with the difficulity tiers as it is. Veteran Flash Points is not a difficulty level. It's a format of 4 players not requiring specific roles (except it does because 2+ healers or tanks are really not desirable), doesn't regard level because of bolster and then the actual difficulty is wildly different from FP to FP...which really makes it bad for random FPs with pugs. That especially I do not get. Also some of the old rewards have been pulled and it's now all part of a generic RNG system called Galactic Command, which doesn't feel rewarding and doesn't give any content its own value. It's all about CXP per minute more than actually enjoying the content.

 

So the problem isn't one thing but a combination of things.

Making every FP level 70 and using bolster was a stupid *ss idea. Low level players should not be put in a number of FPs, especially the newer ones. So the problem is two-fold. First of all bolster doesn't nearly make up for the difference because of how it works but also you miss a lot of skills. It's just lazy to throw everything on one heap and let people sort it out themselves.

 

There should be at least a separate level 70 bracket for the harder FPs and a sub level 70 that are easier.

 

Also the reward system is a problem and uninspiring and I'm glad they're doing something about it in 6.0 but I'm not aware as of yet what they will do with regards to FPs.

 

Veteran or Tactical FPs as we used to know them can take a long time or fail completely depending on role composition, level of players and experience of players and the same issues might not exist or not nearly as much in other FPs that are put on equal footing in the GF.

 

Then there is the problem that they've used FPs as a mode of tellling the main story which was a bad idea to begin with. I'm glad they stopped doing that with Ossus. What was good with Copero and Nathema is that you can get rewards there (decorations) that you can only get there. That gives them meaning as content. I would've still preferred them as explorable planets with dailies and such, like Ossus, but at least there they got the idea right that just CXP is boring and that it's good to have a specific reason to go there.

 

Very few people actually enjoy doing the same FP many times over so there should be meaningful rewards because then people are willing to do so. As it stands though I do those two in solo mode because then I don't have to worry about horribly balanced group content and idiotic pugs.

 

Again it is a combination of factors that pushes people to do speed runs. I get that some people will be like this regardless, but I do NOT think this sort of thing should be encouraged. The game has gone in a direction of making content boring and repetitive for lackluster RNG rewards. I don't see how anyone can see that as a good thing but ok.

 

I advocate content that has clear difficultiy levels, with individual rewards and some challenge. That way you don't have to speed run to get to the reward. Now I still think that if you want to follow the full story at your leisure you should do this in solo mode since it exists now but in the end I'd rather that you take 30 mins doing a FP with the same rewards as it it takes to speed run Hammer Station 2-3 times in the same time. As long as it's rewarding enough I don't see a problem with the content taking a bit more time so that you don't have to repeat the content multiple times and get bored with it more easily.

 

The rewards have to be there appropriately but when they do they can fix all the skipping people can do and make doing bonus bosses worth it as well. That's the way I look at it anyway.

[casirabit]

They shouldn't have kicked you, but you should always spacebar in a pug group IMO, and it's rude not to, since you can do the story mode flashpoints solo at any time and you won't be wasting anyone's time or feeling pressured to rush. So, in my opinion, both you and your teammates were in the wrong, but you are more easily forgiven as a new player. Just my 2c

 

There's another way but it requires communication on both sides. My boyfriend and I do flashpoints and we asked the following questions (no matter what level they are) (1) Any new to this flashpoint . (2) Do you want to bonus or do you want to skip (3) Do you want to watch the cutscenes. We asked these questions for various reasons (1) New people to a flashpoint we need to explain some things to them (2) bonus this will determine what the group would rather do (3) and if they want to do the cutscenes. We don't assume everyone has done the solo version which would be wrong on our part and rude.

 

You do know the saying of assume right?

Edited July 28, 2019 by casirabit

[aerockyul]

Ah there it is; the typical cutscene watcher attitude I expect. If you don't care about my time, why would I care about yours? I'd 100% vote yes to kick for that attitude, and that'd be just too bad.

 

It’s the EXACT same attitude that sb monkeys display. The argument that one side doesn’t care about the others’ time explicitly works both ways. No one will win that argument until one side just says out loud “you know what? You’re right. Everyone else’s time is far more valuable than my time and sub money and I’m just gonna step out because I’m ruining your [speed run/cutscenes]”.

[Sareeph]

It’s the EXACT same attitude that sb monkeys display. The argument that one side doesn’t care about the others’ time explicitly works both ways. No one will win that argument until one side just says out loud “you know what? You’re right. Everyone else’s time is far more valuable than my time and sub money and I’m just gonna step out because I’m ruining your [speed run/cutscenes]”.

 

You'd be correct except I know several people who do not spacebar just so they can see how worked up they can get the rest of the group. They find it extremely funny to agitate others. After telling me this I put them on ignore of course.

[Batwer]

Yes, some FP do not have story modes, maybe we should request all FP to have a story mode? This way it will help new players experiencing the story and they won't need to q for vet fp.

Most have one.

 

Hello Infinitedrift

Don't understand why you made that choice, since you're robbing yourself of (arguably) the best part of the game. Not to mention that most of the FPs stories are connected to the pre-level 65 storylines that you skipped.

Peter

I do not understand either. You skip most of the story. Ironically in the group you want to see everything?

[DavidAtkinson]

I understand that maybe veterans have seen the story a kazillion times. However, I started my character at level 65, new to the game, and I have not seen the content and hope to enjoy some of the story. To my surprise, after arriving at a flashpoint I was kicked for having not skipped all of the conversation with the spacebar. They were hostile to me and even accused me of trolling. That's pretty ridiculous, and also pretty poor treatment of new players..

 

No offense, but I would have done the same..

 

Usually people ask to skip the dialogues, if you don't do that, you're out.... Some people have done those FP's hundreds of times and you're just wasting their time. If you want to see the dialogues do them solo.

 

Also, making a level; 65 as new player is the worst decision because you are robbing yourself of the best parts this game has to offer.

[aerockyul]

You'd be correct except I know several people who do not spacebar just so they can see how worked up they can get the rest of the group. They find it extremely funny to agitate others. After telling me this I put them on ignore of course.

 

There are always extremes and neither one deserves much sympathy in the subject of wasting others’ time

[Damask_Rose]

Most have one.

 

These do not. Hammer Station, Athis, Mando Raiders, Cademimu, Colicoid War Games, Red Reaper, Kaon, Lost Island, KDY, Czerka Corporate Labs and Czerka Core Meltdown. I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask for solo modes of these remaining flashpoints, and I also think it's perfectly reasonable for new players to want to see those short stories at least once.

[MikeCobalt]

These do not. Hammer Station, Athis, Mando Raiders, Cademimu, Colicoid War Games, Red Reaper, Kaon, Lost Island, KDY, Czerka Corporate Labs and Czerka Core Meltdown. I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask for solo modes of these remaining flashpoints, and I also think it's perfectly reasonable for new players to want to see those short stories at least once.

 

If Not Having a Solo version or *Story compliant members in a *Story based event in as advertised *Story based Bioware Game means the thinning down and eventual loss of the games oldest (Typically story seeking) members which would lead to (Like most games) an eventual dumbing down/ watering down and simply "Run, Click, Shoot = Money > Faster, Faster, Faster" then having a "Story/Solo" version to Every Flashpoint would be preserving member (Subscription $$) numbers. Treating others in a hateful way does lead to less subscriptions which means less less money and less new content and ultimately death of the game (Sure cant get the Fun, Fun, Fun like that).

[lightSaberAddiCt]

If Not Having a Solo version or *Story compliant members in a *Story based event in as advertised *Story based Bioware Game means the thinning down and eventual loss of the games oldest (Typically story seeking) members which would lead to (Like most games) an eventual dumbing down/ watering down and simply "Run, Click, Shoot = Money > Faster, Faster, Faster" then having a "Story/Solo" version to Every Flashpoint would be preserving member (Subscription $$) numbers. Treating others in a hateful way does lead to less subscriptions which means less less money and less new content and ultimately death of the game (Sure cant get the Fun, Fun, Fun like that).

 

You seem to be disregarding the other 3 members of the party fun, I would rather lose 1 sub, then 3 over this matter.

[MikeCobalt]

You seem to be disregarding the other 3 members of the party fun, I would rather lose 1 sub, then 3 over this matter.

So no more Story players are left in a BioWare Story Based game? only the toxins remain?

[Monoth]

I didn't read all the responses but there is a Story Mode option to Flash Points that allow you to play through them solo so you can watch the story without anyone bugging you to hurry up.

[Damask_Rose]

I didn't read all the responses but there is a Story Mode option to Flash Points that allow you to play through them solo so you can watch the story without anyone bugging you to hurry up.

 

If you had read through the thread you would have seen that there are still 11 flashpoints that don't have story modes.

[Tsillah]

Last night I was in a group in Directive 7. Veteran Mode but we had a tank, two dps and I happened to be healer.

 

The tank however was not a tank. He had empty shells for gear, no trinkets and just a low level weapon and off hand...dps stats and a focus, not a shield. At some point I got blamed for not doing my job even though nobody seemed to understand the importance of defensive stats and a shield.

One dps was completely new to the game. I had to explain what dps meant, but hey, it's a new person. Just kept running away from the group though aggroing stuff and dying. Also this person would not skip through the conversations.

The other dps had a clue about the flash point but also had no sense of basics. I had to alert the group for example that we were still in combat at times.

The flash point took an hour to do. The "tank" literally thanked us for carrying him. Nuff said.

 

I don't know why I stuck with it but ok. However, I only do FPs from time to time and a lot of groups are ok but groups like that make me wonder why I even tried to do FPs again.

 

Not skipping convo's can be annoying, just saying there's stuff happening in FPs that is worse and I really blame the dumbing down and bolster for that.

[fushnchips]

I understand that maybe veterans have seen the story a kazillion times. However, I started my character at level 65, new to the game, and I have not seen the content and hope to enjoy some of the story. To my surprise, after arriving at a flashpoint I was kicked for having not skipped all of the conversation with the spacebar. They were hostile to me and even accused me of trolling. That's pretty ridiculous, and also pretty poor treatment of new players..

 

Best thing to do is do the solo ones and then watch all the story nobody to boss you around

[Rolodome]

Last night I was in a group in Directive 7. Veteran Mode but we had a tank, two dps and I happened to be healer.

 

The tank however was not a tank. He had empty shells for gear, no trinkets and just a low level weapon and off hand...dps stats and a focus, not a shield. At some point I got blamed for not doing my job even though nobody seemed to understand the importance of defensive stats and a shield.

One dps was completely new to the game. I had to explain what dps meant, but hey, it's a new person. Just kept running away from the group though aggroing stuff and dying. Also this person would not skip through the conversations.

The other dps had a clue about the flash point but also had no sense of basics. I had to alert the group for example that we were still in combat at times.

The flash point took an hour to do. The "tank" literally thanked us for carrying him. Nuff said.

 

I don't know why I stuck with it but ok. However, I only do FPs from time to time and a lot of groups are ok but groups like that make me wonder why I even tried to do FPs again.

 

Not skipping convo's can be annoying, just saying there's stuff happening in FPs that is worse and I really blame the dumbing down and bolster for that.

Those runs are rough.

 

I blame the Intro to Group Finder quest, tbh. I'm pretty sure it's first available when you hit fleet at level 15 (which is easily reached by the time you leave the starter planet) and is the minimum level for queuing up for a vet mode flashpoint (15). I wouldn't go so far as to say a level 15 shouldn't be in a vet flashpoint (heck, I've probably done it myself before) but it's pretty messy to go in that low when considering how wildly the difficulty can vary from flashpoint to flashpoint.

 

One time semi-recently somebody straight up admitted they came in cause of the quest. They were pretty low level, didn't really know what they were doing.

 

I get that fleet on the way off starter planet is the main opportunity to get peoples' attention with an Intro quest like that, but it seems like it's kind of just throwing people to the fire, sink or swim, without even beginning to explain how flashpoints are supposed to work and what kind of expectations or mechanics there are.

 

I wouldn't necessarily say I think the Intro to Group Finder quest shouldn't be there, but I would say there should also be something like an Intro to Flashpoints quest that directs you to Story Mode Black Talon or something. Something in there to hopefully direct new people to a form of flashpoint that is less sink-or-swim and introduce them to the concept of Story Mode vs. Veteran Mode. Hopefully they would take the Black Talon quest and do it first, and then when they go for the Intro to Group Finder, they'll be a little higher level by then and a little more well-versed in the general scheme of how flashpoints work.

 

Maybe even have this hypothetical Intro to Flashpoints quest give them a full set of gear at the end, to try to ensure that they have a piece of gear in every slot.

 

Or heck, take it a step further and have the Intro to Flashpoints quest give them the Intro to Group Finder quest upon completion. So that they transition from the one to the other.

[Dentoner]

While it sucks to be kicked for that and I'm sorry that happened especially as a new player. Definitely try to explain that your new and haven't seen the cut scenes before. Usually that works and will hopefully allow you to see them.

 

At the same time I try to be considerate to other players in the flashpoint. If I asked nicely and I'm still outvoted 3 to 1, then I also am respectful towards them and skip the cutscenes. While you may be new and haven't seen them, you also have to be fair to the other players as well.

 

I generally try to see the cut scenes during solo mode / story mode where you have the companion bot to help you. This is the best way to see the story cutscenes.

 

Since it is a random flashpoint, if you are not sure when you should run story mode, there is a chart that shows the order to run things. I found the chart below:

 

https://i.redd.it/s2xqvd5blw821.png

 

Definitely give a look over and see where things fall into place. Usually there is a NPC on the planet your leveling on that will give you the mission for the specific Flash point in question. This way you can run the story mode and see the cut scenes and since your solo you don't have to worry about others getting mad for you not seeing the cut scenes.

the fart part people can write reason go watch youtube which sucks to be fairly kills the role-play of flashpoint for me that is wen kicking. Wen you wrote " i want to watch cuts..." and 2 people agreed and one just voted a kick wen them who agreed to watch cutshences with you but voted to kick you off as well.

Mostly proofs that people come to try push and screw over others who don't cut it :"P still exist in game world.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Dentoner

[MikeCobalt]

Really bad when things like this happen. I'm not on very much anymore but when I do run the FlashPoints, I always watch them all the way. The Stories in SWTOR are by far its best part. Edited August 18, 2020 by MikeCobalt

[Dentoner]

Really bad when things like this happen. I'm not on very much anymore but when I do run the FlashPoints, I always watch them all the way. The Stories in SWTOR is by far its best part.

 

I know right? Bioware at the time of its finest storytelling

gameplay for me is DA based so meh for there

[BRKMSN]

As suggested by others, please use story mode to watch the story play out. If using group finder for flashpoints, you'll literally be wasting other players' time (10-15 minutes) per FP by not skipping (space bar) conversations. Keep in mind that other players have limited time schedules as well. Courtesy works in more than one way.