Imagine if Bioware put this sort of effort into swtor

[UmbralSpirit]

Found this

 

So in february he says in an interview how much he loves EA in april he announces he's stepping down? Bummer, guess EA isn't as safe as i thought.

[Nemmar]

Yes, just like it happened with ESO, if EA were willing to finance and release new expansions every 2 years. Like, proper expansions, not the kind we have had wich are more akin to large patches, and made sure the game was optimized to run without hiccups, this game would too see a resurgence.

 

Problem is EA doesn't understand how live services work. They want all the money but none of the commitment/investment. Well, that's not how this works. FFXIV and ESO show how you can recover and are actually growing cause of that.

 

Btw, this game is NOT following the WoW model. I want to make that completely clear. FFXIV IS in fact following the WoW model. The WoW model works. A sub and an expansion every 2 years with some content patches in between. That is exactly what this game could use. That will net you a million active subbed players no doubt.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Nemmar

[ZionHalcyon]

KOTET came out late 2016. It has taken them nearly 3 years to produce another expansion. Do you get where the word piecemeal comes from now? Every other expansion had about a year in-between.

 

That you can look at such and say I'm biased and blind for not agreeing that Onslaught waves away any concerns about the game's decline is mind-boggling.

 

Kotet was done under a different producer.

 

I am saying you are judging the sins of Prior producers against the one we have now. You may ultimately be right but your discernment is a bit premature.

[Rolodome]

Kotet was done under a different producer.

 

I am saying you are judging the sins of Prior producers against the one we have now. You may ultimately be right but your discernment is a bit premature.

I guess I'm not being clear. In this particular case, I'm not judging the producer, I'm judging the pace of content and what kind of content is not getting put out. Keith could be the best one the game has ever had, but if he doesn't have the budget to go above and beyond because other producers screwed up, it may not matter much in the end.

[olagatonjedi]

I guess I'm not being clear. In this particular case, I'm not judging the producer, I'm judging the pace of content and what kind of content is not getting put out. Keith could be the best one the game has ever had, but if he doesn't have the budget to go above and beyond because other producers screwed up, it may not matter much in the end.

Keith will do the best he can with the budget hes been given. And still nothing he adds can guarantee success. Even if he truly works wonders, nothing guarantees the playerbase will appreciate it either.

[Rolodome]

Keith will do the best he can with the budget hes been given. And still nothing he adds can guarantee success. Even if he truly works wonders, nothing guarantees the playerbase will appreciate it either.

Well true and part of that is where the budget argument comes in. Not just for Onslaught, but throughout the game's history, pretty much as far back as the game struggling after launch and them cutting loose loads of staff.

 

With a game this complex and this big in scope of different gameplay modes and mini-games and so on, you can't expect to please most players with a tight budget. SWTOR seems to have always struggled with this, since launch, and I can only speak for myself, but I think that's the core of what's being discussed here, is it's never really had the budget after launch (or if it had the budget, never had the right people at the helm) to do all of the things that it needed to do get appreciation on a wide and deep scale. So it kept losing and losing players because it would try to go deep on one area and neglect loads of others, or go wide, but not go deep. With the problem being exacerbated by all of the limitations of the engine and code and bugs/flaws from launch.

 

If I put on my optimism hat for a moment, it's theoretically possible that there is some real depth and breadth being added with Onslaught and that's part of the reason they took so long in-between, but given what we know so far about what the expansion is adding, that doesn't seem likely. I guess the best we can hope is that if Onslaught is received well, maybe EA bean counters will agree to giving more funding to the game than they are already giving and Keith will be able to do more with it.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Rolodome

[DarthCasus]

Considering the turn around Battlefront 2 has made, I do believe it's possible for EA/BioWare to eventually take Swtor off cruise mode and aggressively go after getting back their playerbase (if not goodwill after 4.0/5.0) but they've shown to be unwilling to actually engage in such. Sure, 6.0 looks like something fresh but that's because the past few years have been trash in comparison, even with the good things added alongside. If the Kotaku articles were anything to go off of (which I do believe in), it comes down to management and previous choices made that landed devs in the spaghetti they're in. And I mean above Keith especially.

 

Imagine getting an update every 2 months, cartel sets being obtainable from ingame activities, new races being added, a new class, day/night cycles on some planets, increase in response time to player concerns like grinding currency to access endgame, rebalancing of older content, separate pvp and pve balance, additions to legacy, an actual facelift for the Preferred/F2P experiences with extra incentive to sub, old bugs addressed in some fashion, return of a useful non-restrictive centralized currency like Basic comms, new customizations for all races and more. I know, dreams are nice.

[ZionHalcyon]

Considering the turn around Battlefront 2 has made, I do believe it's possible for EA/BioWare to eventually take Swtor off cruise mode and aggressively go after getting back their playerbase (if not goodwill after 4.0/5.0) but they've shown to be unwilling to actually engage in such. Sure, 6.0 looks like something fresh but that's because the past few years have been trash in comparison, even with the good things added alongside. If the Kotaku articles were anything to go off of (which I do believe in), it comes down to management and previous choices made that landed devs in the spaghetti they're in. And I mean above Keith especially.

 

Imagine getting an update every 2 months, cartel sets being obtainable from ingame activities, new races being added, a new class, day/night cycles on some planets, increase in response time to player concerns like grinding currency to access endgame, rebalancing of older content, separate pvp and pve balance, additions to legacy, an actual facelift for the Preferred/F2P experiences with extra incentive to sub, old bugs addressed in some fashion, return of a useful non-restrictive centralized currency like Basic comms, new customizations for all races and more. I know, dreams are nice.

 

I think what some people struggle with is they want SWTOR to be more sandbox. It's never going to be. With classes being so intimately tied to story, a new class is an impossible ask. Maybe if they were still churning out class stories it might be possible, but even then it would be a long ask for them to create a class AND a story that catches the new class up to where everyone is at now, even with the unified experience on the back half. SWTOR just isn't designed for a new class.

 

I think that is where the "play your way" mantra from the devs comes in - they can't create a new class, so they are trying to give more variety to the ones we have.

[OlBuzzard]

I think what some people struggle with is they want SWTOR to be more sandbox. It's never going to be. With classes being so intimately tied to story, a new class is an impossible ask. Maybe if they were still churning out class stories it might be possible, but even then it would be a long ask for them to create a class AND a story that catches the new class up to where everyone is at now, even with the unified experience on the back half. SWTOR just isn't designed for a new class.

 

I think that is where the "play your way" mantra from the devs comes in - they can't create a new class, so they are trying to give more variety to the ones we have.

 

Respectfully.. I really don't think that the sandbox theory is what a lot of folks are looking for. And I'm personally hoping that a new class can become a thing ! There are a couple of good ideas out there. One of which is tied to SWTOR lore .... (Gray Jedi is not one of them).

 

A lot can change in the next month or so! I' really hoping for the best in 6.0

[ZionHalcyon]

Respectfully.. I really don't think that the sandbox theory is what a lot of folks are looking for. And I'm personally hoping that a new class can become a thing ! There are a couple of good ideas out there. One of which is tied to SWTOR lore .... (Gray Jedi is not one of them).

 

A lot can change in the next month or so! I' really hoping for the best in 6.0

 

As I said - a new class can't be a thing, for the same reason they won't do any more class stories.

[TrixxieTriss]

Btw, this game is NOT following the WoW model. I want to make that completely clear. FFXIV IS in fact following the WoW model. The WoW model works. A sub and an expansion every 2 years with some content patches in between. That is exactly what this game could use. That will net you a million active subbed players no doubt.

 

I mean more along the kinds of features and direction, not the financial model, which is far superior to swtor’s

[TrixxieTriss]

Respectfully.. I really don't think that the sandbox theory is what a lot of folks are looking for. And I'm personally hoping that a new class can become a thing ! There are a couple of good ideas out there. One of which is tied to SWTOR lore .... (Gray Jedi is not one of them).

 

A lot can change in the next month or so! I' really hoping for the best in 6.0

 

I’d like to see the empire side add Dathomir Witches or “night sisters” as a class.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Nightsisters/Legends

 

I’m not sure what the Republic equivalent could be.

[OlBuzzard]

As I said - a new class can't be a thing, for the same reason they won't do any more class stories.

 

Ya never know !!

There are always possibilities !

[OlBuzzard]

I mean more along the kinds of features and direction, not the financial model, which is far superior to swtor’s

 

I agree to a point.... And IMO SWTOR has a couple of features that WoW is missing!

 

Soooo much potential ... sooo many things that can and should be! Now then ! Let's see what BW / EA can and WILL do with it!

:D:D

[Rion_Starkiller]

Keith will do the best he can with the budget hes been given. And still nothing he adds can guarantee success. Even if he truly works wonders, nothing guarantees the playerbase will appreciate it either.

 

My expectation/wish list for 6.0 is:

• please don't be worse than 4.0/5.0
  
• please let there be new class meta
  
• please let there be another new raid
  

 

I just hope he has had enough of a budget to make it happen.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[ZionHalcyon]

Ya never know !!

There are always possibilities !

 

I've played the game from the beginning and know the ups and downs.

 

It's not likely there is ever going to be another class, unless somehow they open up class story development again completely, which isn't likely at all.

 

I am telling you, this opening up of the professions via tacticals and set bonuses is the devs trying to meet the players who crave a new class halfway, by diversifying how you can play a class. Closest you will get...

[OlBuzzard]

I've played the game from the beginning and know the ups and downs.

 

It's not likely there is ever going to be another class, unless somehow they open up class story development again completely, which isn't likely at all.

 

I am telling you, this opening up of the professions via tacticals and set bonuses is the devs trying to meet the players who crave a new class halfway, by diversifying how you can play a class. Closest you will get...

 

Please believe me when I tell you that I know where you are coming from. I too have been here from the beginning. I've the good, the bad and frankly some decisions that were down right uuuuggllyy !

 

It is possible to incorporate a new class ... even if that class were introduced as a part of the new chapter that is about to unfold.

 

Umm... also (just no one misunderstands) ... I'm really not trying to be argumentative or here to "prove my point". I'm just saying ... IMO (not that it's worth that much) ,,, but still. It's always possible. And I'd like to believe in those possibilities.

 

It's also entirely possible that you are right!

 

If it looks bleak by the time Life Day celebrations rolls around ... we'll call it good and move on!

 

[/offers hand shake]

Edited July 8, 2019 by OlBuzzard

[Lenlo]

EA/BW was repeatedly warned during beta about the fundamental issues the game was facing by those of us who closed tested the game. While they might’ve had the talent and muscle back then to put large scale ideas into reality, they lacked the leadership to make sound decisions. We warned them the game needed some major changes/additions and, at minimum, an additional six months of development time. The original Ilum was awesome, but needed to be fleshed out better; it needed more late/end game testing and less early/mid game testing; it needed more content at endgame for both pvp and pve...too much focus was on “hey just level these classes to 50”.

 

After launch, the holes that we pointed out began to leak with a couple weeks. It earned the nickname TORtanic and hemorrhaged subs. Rather than fix great ideas, that unfortunately had some flaws, they scrapped them entirely (looking at you Ilum); or promised to reimplement them in short order and never following through. This caused even more subs to be lost. The early dev team while talented, was inept. Potentially even worse than inept, they were untrustworthy. In a market that had become saturated with MMOs, players weren’t going to hang out simply because it was Star Wars. They moved on. It’s unfortunate as the game truly does have so much potential. But as you said, as soon as it was dubbed the TORtanic, EA essentially stopped supporting it in a short period of time.

 

Don't hold out hope for any meaningful post-launch support of any title if EA is involved. *eyes Anthem*

[Telaan]

Don't hold out hope for any meaningful post-launch support of any title if EA is involved. *eyes Anthem*

 

It’s a sad reality made even more tragic in that MMOs require more post-launch support than any other genre of game.

[olagatonjedi]

It’s a sad reality made even more tragic in that MMOs require more post-launch support than any other genre of game.

This is one of the reasons that expectations need to be tempered in general with MMOs. This forum is chalk full of relatively unrealistic expectations from a game that didnt follow through even with the initial expectations people had for it. At some point players need to come to grips with this.

[Telaan]

This is one of the reasons that expectations need to be tempered in general with MMOs. This forum is chalk full of relatively unrealistic expectations from a game that didnt follow through even with the initial expectations people had for it. At some point players need to come to grips with this.

 

I honestly see very few over the top requests on the forums. Most are generally good and reasonable ideas that often stem from something experienced in another game. Of course not everything is possible; but the honest truth is that this game is in maintenance mode and has been for many years. EA lacks either the talent or scruples to follow through on what is necessary to maintain a AAA MMO. EA is a disreputable gaming company with a well documented history of doing anything it can to make a dollar; including pushing the envelope of the law. In doing so it’s earned more than one “worst company in America” award. SWTOR is the perfect opportunity and platform to try and earn some goodwill back from consumers. However, that will never happen because....EA.

[TrixxieTriss]

I honestly see very few over the top requests on the forums. Most are generally good and reasonable ideas that often stem from something experienced in another game. Of course not everything is possible; but the honest truth is that this game is in maintenance mode and has been for many years. EA lacks either the talent or scruples to follow through on what is necessary to maintain a AAA MMO. EA is a disreputable gaming company with a well documented history of doing anything it can to make a dollar; including pushing the envelope of the law. In doing so it’s earned more than one “worst company in America” award. SWTOR is the perfect opportunity and platform to try and earn some goodwill back from consumers. However, that will never happen because....EA.

 

They have the talent, the problem is they move them as soon as a project finishes or they fire them to save money paying for the best, while others end up leaving in frustration when they see EA dump on something they love.

 

It’s not the talent that’s the problem. It’s EA top down management.

[Phazonfreak]

They have the talent, the problem is they move them as soon as a project finishes or they fire them to save money paying for the best, while others end up leaving in frustration when they see EA dump on something they love.

 

It’s not the talent that’s the problem. It’s EA top down management.

 

I think so too. The main problem is that BioWare Austin is one tiny wheel in the megacorp of EA and since SWTOR never reached their projected goal of becoming the main competitor of WoW, and the MMORPG market has not only been saturated for a long time but is rather in decline since the genre lost popularity, they see no need to invest but a miniscule amount into its ongoing development.

 

I think the only reason we still have SWTOR (and BioWare Austin for that matter) at this point is because it is a Star Wars brand. A Star Wars brand is still a pretty big deal in the minds of many, even though EA managed to decrease its value by bringing out sub par or even controversial Star Wars content in the last years.

 

My assessment is that rather then Anthem, the upcoming Star Wars Fallen Order will be a litmus test for how they approach SWTOR in the future.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Phazonfreak

[Rolodome]

EA managed to decrease its value by bringing out sub par or even controversial Star Wars content in the last years.

That's for sure. I remember I used to have problems with George Lucas and what he'd done with Star Wars. I don't feel those frustrations were illegitimate, but I never imagined how bad things could get with the IP under different direction. Disney handed off the Star Wars license to one of the top money-hungry in the industry (because of course they did, since Disney is money-hungry too). EA proceeded to make like... what... 2 star wars games? In the past ten years or so? (Not counting fallen order that hasn't come out yet.) And from what I understand, they killed the possibility of a single-player KOTOR 3.

 

They took what may be the most popular IP ever (Star Wars) and have squatted on it with mediocre, meager output stuffed up to the hilt with microtransactions and lootboxes. They took one of the most popular video game IPs ever (KOTOR) and turned it into an MMO stuffed up to the hilt with microtransactions and lootboxes. And have now all but abandoned it.

 

It's just such an aggravating waste of potential. And from a business standpoint, it's very short-sighted. At a certain point, the hardcore fans die, or they move on to other things, or they get busy with life, and next thing you know, their reliable base of customers is a nothing. And they have nothing to draw in new people because they were too busy beating dead horses with minimum effort put in. When they could have been crafting new and interesting pieces of art that would stick with people for decades.

 

This isn't to say that SWTOR itself hasn't ever tried to push the envelope, but it sure as hell hasn't gotten the kind of support that would make it a game-changer. Not since its original development (which we know was a hectic mess). It always seems to fall short, which is aggravating not just from the standpoint of a fan of the medium, but also aggravating thinking about the people who put their heart and soul into games like these and can't do anything about poor management and poor funding (not to mention poor working conditions, which some of them have probably been dealing with as well).

[olagatonjedi]

They took what may be the most popular IP ever (Star Wars) and have squatted on it with mediocre, meager output stuffed up to the hilt with microtransactions and lootboxes. They took one of the most popular video game IPs ever (KOTOR) and turned it into an MMO stuffed up to the hilt with microtransactions and lootboxes. And have now all but abandoned it.

All of that is debatable, but ultimately for many, despite the history or path(s) that have been taken, its still a very enjoyable game for enough people to keep it active, release new content and therefore keep feeding the craving. There are so many levels of caring, but the only one that matters is the one where a player decides its not worth his/her time to play anymore. And no company in the world can predict or prepare for every players bresking point, no matter the resources or content they release. Which is the whole reason these games remain dynamic is to continually give every player something personally appealing, not all the time, but frequently enough to hold interest long enough to cycle others interests. Its s balance that is required for the game to remain.