Master_Neaj Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Probably not a good idea to reference a credit selling site by name on the forums. How exactly will this affect credit sellers? The only relevant change is the credit cap, and I'm sure credit sellers keep at least a few subbed accounts to store their credits on. Regarding the changes, the new cap is nice but won't make much difference with today's prices. As for the Quick Travel and Medical Probe changes, I don't remember having any restriction on Quick Travel as preferred, and the medical probes were capped at 5 uses. Removing the restriction is good though. Randomno so True!!!... Automatic suspension, Ban, credits taken, etc... it's in the TOS, that a lot of folks really don't go through and read everything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolodome Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 You're not entirely wrong, except that there's an assumption in the above that I don't think is justified. (Notice that this is all a matter of opinion unless BioWare staff weigh in and issue a statement one way or another, which I don't think is at all likely.) The assumption is that SWTOR is an F2P game with a subscription option, whereas for me, it's the other way around: a subscription game with an F2P option. There's room for debate, of course, but the structure of the F2P / Privileged states makes (for me) more sense if you think of subscription as the "normal" state and F2P as the "exceptional" state. That's a distinct possibility. EDIT: I believe I should mention one other point. I played this game for two years as Privileged before deciding that enough was enough, at which point I subscribed. Fair enough. Though I'd be inclined to argue that if it's meant to be "sub with a F2P option," it should act more like it, with more of an effort made toward making sub rewarding. Like the model many sub games have used of having a time-based system of rewards that is unlocked for being subbed for a long time (I'm blanking on less verbose terminology for it). Like when they did the "rewards for subbing" thing at one point, I think that was close to the right idea, but it would have been better to just make a system that you can pick up and join in on at any time. I also think the 500CC a month or whatever that number is, is rather paltry if the game is sub first, considering how pricey many cartel items are. And account unlock for many items takes 400CC, so almost all of that for one account unlock on top of character unlock if you paid for it with CC (or waited for someone else to do the same and bought on the GTN). In summary, changes I'd probably recommend if the game is meant to be oriented more toward sub than being thought of as a F2P model first (I realize, of course, how crazy some of this would sound to people whose goal is to make as much money in nickle and diming as possible): - Rewards system for subbing (ex: 3 months, 6 months, 9 months, etc.) - Free appearance change token per month, gives you one totally free set of changes to a character's look if you're a sub (I don't think there is an appearance change token, they'd have to make one) - Some sort of free allotment of account unlock based on the number of months you sub. Like if you sub for 3 months, you get 3 free account unlocks that can be used whenever or they can sit around and do nothing. Or perhaps they're BoE tokens that can be sold on the GTN too, if somebody doesn't want them. - Monthly grant changed to something more like 5,000. - Persistent discount on all items in the store (something like 10%) Not that this will ever happen, but that would certainly do some convincing that this is more of a sub with F2P than F2P with sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesira Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 A step in the right direction, still need to do better. Far too much of this game is behind a pay wall. I think that being subscribed should come with benefits and perks, but I don't think functionality should be limited by being F2P or preferred. Hot bars should never be limited or restricted at all, unify colors should not be restricted, hiding helmet should not be restricted, etc. Being subscribed should give players perks like XP/Credit/REP gain increases, maybe access to more bank-style inventory, and make changing your hairstyle and colors completely free, while preferred get a discount, and F2P have to pay full price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 They make changes and people still fuss. It is like they want the F2P and Preferred Players to have everything a sub has so they don't have to pay for a sub. Preferred though I might be inclined to say a little more except for one thing it only takes one purchase in the cartel shop to become preferred and that could be as little as $5.00 so really not much difference. I went Preferred a few times, though not perfect, I was able to make due with the items I had until I resubbed. If you want the stuff a sub gets then sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesira Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) They make changes and people still fuss. It is like they want the F2P and Preferred Players to have everything a sub has so they don't have to pay for a sub. Preferred though I might be inclined to say a little more except for one thing it only takes one purchase in the cartel shop to become preferred and that could be as little as $5.00 so really not much difference. I went Preferred a few times, though not perfect, I was able to make due with the items I had until I resubbed. If you want the stuff a sub gets then sub. Because F2P should have access to just about everything. The perk for subscribing should be to enhance your experience, convenience, and stuff like that but access to every feature in the game should not be limited. They are really shooting themselves in the foot with their F2P model and it stops A LOT people from trying the game. Especially since now it's famous for it's horrendous restrictions. When you make your game F2P, you pretty much accept that a huge amount of your revenue will probably come from cosmetic purchases in the shop and expansions, so you need to make those worth purchasing. Putting restrictions like they have literally only works to turn people away from the game and makes it far less enjoyable to get into which is the polar opposite of what you should be aiming for. They should look at ESO's model. Edited June 20, 2019 by Jesira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodrac Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 They should look at ESO's model. B2P and F2P are apples and oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fushnchips Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 B2P and F2P are apples and oranges. Remember when SWTOR came out it was expensive as hell to buy even though it could only be a sub to play but god it was pricey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denisdenizg Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Game can hard to be called F2P when that game have locked "end game" content behind sub... SWTOR is Free to Try at best.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesira Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 B2P and F2P are apples and oranges. Eh not really, in the case of these two games it's more like two different kinds of apples, and ESO is doing way better than SW:TOR currently is. SW:TOR's model isn't working for it, despite being the only Star Wars MMO on the market, so they really ought to look at ways to significantly improve their model to make the game far more accessible and easy to get into for new players, and attractive for old players to return and these changes, while a step in the right direction, are not even remotely enough to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalBeast Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) My 2 cents about what should be done in addition to the changes announced by BW: F2P: - Credit Cap = 2 mil. - Operations Cap = Story Mode only, 2x/week - Warzone Cap = 10x/week per character Preferred: - Credit Cap = 5 mil. - Operations Cap = Story Mode only, unlimited/week - Warzone Cap = 5x regular warzones/week per character if character max available level is lower then current game max level (i.e. player's characters are locked at max level 65 because they unsubbed at the previous expansion and are unable to get to level 70 until they resub for 1 month to increase the level cap) - Warzone Cap = unlimited regular warzones if character is at current game max level (70 right now) Subbed players will still retain Veteran and higher difficulty Operations/Ranked Arenas, with the better ilvl rewards, but at the same time, f2p can at least try some operations and warzones a bit, and preferred players are not blocked from helping other people in story mode operations or queue for regular warzones and have a good time. Differentiating accounts that were caped at lower level then current max level of the game will also have a side effect of stopping people with lvl 65 set bonuses from endlessly farming new players in mid bracket warzones. If they want to get unlimited warzones they can resub for a month increasing their max level cap to 70 and enjoy the regular warzones with other people that are more then happy to fight with them. Edited June 20, 2019 by CalBeast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 My 2 cents about what should be done in addition to the changes announced by BW: F2P: - Credit Cap = 2 mil. - Operations Cap = Story Mode only, 2x/week - Warzone Cap = 10x/week per character Preferred: - Credit Cap = 5 mil. - Operations Cap = Story Mode only, unlimited/week - Warzone Cap = 5x regular warzones/week per character if character max available level is lower then current game max level (i.e. player's characters are locked at max level 65 because they unsubbed at the previous expansion and are unable to get to level 70 until they resub for 1 month to increase the level cap) - Warzone Cap = unlimited regular warzones if character is at current game max level (70 right now) Subbed players will still retain Veteran and higher difficulty Operations/Ranked Arenas, with the better ilvl rewards, but at the same time, f2p can at least try some operations and warzones a bit, and preferred players are not blocked from helping other people in story mode operations or queue for regular warzones and have a good time. Differentiating accounts that were caped at lower level then current max level of the game will also have a side effect of stopping people with lvl 65 set bonuses from endlessly farming new players in mid bracket warzones. If they want to get unlimited warzones they can resub for a month increasing their max level cap to 70 and enjoy the regular warzones with other people that are more then happy to fight with them. Only if they changed the preferred status. It needs to be more than purchasing one item on the cartel market which you can purchase one item for $5.00. I don't see that as preferred. Preferred should be something more, maybe a old sub that had been sub for 6 months or so but definitely not purchasing a item in the cartel market one time and you get a preferred setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Game can hard to be called F2P when that game have locked "end game" content behind sub... SWTOR is Free to Try at best.... Go to wow and tell me about SWTOR F2P. Wow is more Free to Try than SWTOR is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denisdenizg Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) Go to wow and tell me about SWTOR F2P. Wow is more Free to Try than SWTOR is. And how that change the fact that mentioned games are not F2P, and both of those games falsely use F2P terminology?... Edited June 20, 2019 by denisdenizg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rrusalka Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Please make sure to increase the Escrow items from the CM to keep in line with this change. Also think about bringing back Ops passes. I don't care for Ops myself but it was always nice to buy these on the store or off other players to give new players a taste of running them with a guild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalBeast Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Only if they changed the preferred status. It needs to be more than purchasing one item on the cartel market which you can purchase one item for $5.00. I don't see that as preferred. Preferred should be something more, maybe a old sub that had been sub for 6 months or so but definitely not purchasing a item in the cartel market one time and you get a preferred setting. I didn't say "buy an item for 5$", I said resub for a month Buying an item from CM does nothing to change your max level It's just something I think would help keep game more alive. Increase in pops for Regular Warzones and story Operations is something everyone would appreciate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrkat Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 So nothing for subscribers? I mean, preferred is starting to look decent (especially if one does not "end game" but is an altaholic). I'd love to see some nice quality of life things for subscribers... The aforementioned ESO has a GREAT one with their materials bag (account-shared gathering items bag of unlimited size!!). Some nice account-wide love would be great for subscribers (maybe more tabs in the shared/legacy bank)... Just my 2¢ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinlanSaathis Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) I am quoting myself. This is a terrible idea. Preferred is a flawed concept And should be completely removed from the game. In my home town there is a public gym that is free to use. the equipment is what you would expect in a public gym with long lines and other restrictions for its use. In the next room behind a locked door is a state-of-the-art gym facility, the equipment is all relatively new (less than a year old) and is always being replaced, there are trainers on duty and a number of other perks. To get a key-fob to open this room costs $$ each month as a subscription or membership if you like. You are free to stop paying for membership at any time, there are no contracts but once you do you hand over your fob and you use the public gym if you still want to attend. The point I am making with this analogy is you do not get to enjoy something forever because at one time in the past you spent some money on it hence Preferred Status is a flawed concept. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=864290&highlight=preferred Edited June 20, 2019 by QuinlanSaathis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkfishman Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 I am quoting myself. This is a terrible idea. Preferred is a flawed concept http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=864290&highlight=preferred Yes, comparing a gym to an online game with thousands of players who depend on other players to enjoy said game is an amazing comparison, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkfishman Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 So nothing for subscribers? I mean, preferred is starting to look decent (especially if one does not "end game" but is an altaholic). I'd love to see some nice quality of life things for subscribers... The aforementioned ESO has a GREAT one with their materials bag (account-shared gathering items bag of unlimited size!!). Some nice account-wide love would be great for subscribers (maybe more tabs in the shared/legacy bank)... Just my 2¢ I have a feeling the new system will be heavily weighted toward subscribers as far as rewards and gameplay is involved. Of course, with access to a grand total of 5 wzs a week, pref prob don't care about maxing stats anyway. I subscribe mainly for the access to WZs, since my PC can't really handle most OPs anymore. (Hopefully will change soon). That and my certain compulsion for broker items that makes having access to large amounts of cash important, lol. In any case, I'm surprised these changes are being made without really making a difference between f2p and pref. players. However, it's exceedingly generous in every way, so no one can complain about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockmks Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) While goodwill is always a welcome gesture (and thank you!). I feel compelled to say in practice this change is completely meaningless depending on the goal. For PR improvements for free players, this is great. For enriching the MMO community via gameplay from non this is ineffective. The credits are still effectively uselessly low for the GTN (less sales of gamble packs from whales selling off the spares) and the group play restrictions are unaffected. As an established preferred player myself, the quick bars and med probes are useless (I've already bought the account unlocks). I fully respect Bioware has their own train of thought on the issue that they probably shouldn't be sharing (the business model is still overtly anti player so best keep how you plan on screwing us to yourself) but just so you know if your goals were to enrich the game play this won't mean much. Ps. I want you to win bioware. See ESO. Paying them money is easy and done freely without thinking about it. My instinct of wariness is immediately triggered when shown threats of restriction. My 2 cents about what should be done in addition to the changes announced by BW: F2P: - Credit Cap = 2 mil. - Operations Cap = Story Mode only, 2x/week - Warzone Cap = 10x/week per character Preferred: - Credit Cap = 5 mil. - Operations Cap = Story Mode only, unlimited/week - Warzone Cap = 5x regular warzones/week per character if character max available level is lower then current game max level (i.e. player's characters are locked at max level 65 because they unsubbed at the previous expansion and are unable to get to level 70 until they resub for 1 month to increase the level cap) - Warzone Cap = unlimited regular warzones if character is at current game max level (70 right now) This is great suggestion. At one point, I could sympathize with bioware that bullied escrow subs were precious and dear to them (endgame was always to be paid for on a slow context skeleton crew), but given the current state of the game, especially its current strong popularity, holding onto this only paying because of mob intimidation strategy is holding the game back via the bad blood it generates. The cartel market is hugely popular I hear people going on about things in game all the time? Again, see eso. You wouldn't even have to change the pricing at all.. remove restrictions, give people 1500 cartel coins per month to match the best and enjoy the wins. Good luck anyway. EDIT: Don't get me wrong.. eso are just as scummy as anyone else, they just do it nice ways, i.e., by leaving you change instead of demanding the double dip, and making nothing (but crap) affordable with your change unless you double dip. Same effect to your bean counters... exact same walking wallet double dip.. the difference is people hate you and don't hate them. That's the beauty about eso's sub model. Because the subscription is balanced on coins and in game buffs, the same regular stipend payment can be looked at both from coins or gameplay. If you were thinking about unsubbing, you can fall back on 2 things.. well I need the coins.. well I need the sub benefits. Get it? Edited June 21, 2019 by stockmks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradTheImpaler Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Could someone please briefly explain, or link to a thread that explains why Ops passes are no longer available? I can understand wanting Ops available as an incentive for subscribers. Yet, those were helpful for filling a spot in a progression raid and at the same time getting a new player hooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuinlanSaathis Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Yes, comparing a gym to an online game with thousands of players who depend on other players to enjoy said game is an amazing comparison, lol. Don't care if you don't like or don't understand the metaphor, the underlying theme is valid. Once you stop paying for a service you no longer deserve that service. I stop paying for Netflix, I no longer get to watch. Simple. Preferred, paying once (as little as $5) for a lifetime of concessions is flawed and stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Hello everyone! Today we made an announcement about reducing some of the limitations for Free-to-Play and Preferred players. More specifically adjustments to credit caps, Quickbars, Medical Probes, and Quick Travel! Have you guys considered bring back paid passes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 I didn't say "buy an item for 5$", I said resub for a month Buying an item from CM does nothing to change your max level It's just something I think would help keep game more alive. Increase in pops for Regular Warzones and story Operations is something everyone would appreciate. But the problem is how they have preferred set up right now. You can go preferred by buying one item out of the cartel shop (and that can cost $5) and you are then preferred. To me that is not preferred. A preferred person should be a person that had at least had a sub for xx amount of time (4-6 months) and they are preferred, not by buying an item from the cartel shop. As far as everything else it might be okay, (not a pvp player lol). I just have a problem with the way preferred is set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 My 2 cents about what should be done in addition to the changes announced by BW: F2P: - Credit Cap = 2 mil. - Operations Cap = Story Mode only, 2x/week - Warzone Cap = 10x/week per character Preferred: - Credit Cap = 5 mil. - Operations Cap = Story Mode only, unlimited/week - Warzone Cap = 5x regular warzones/week per character if character max available level is lower then current game max level (i.e. player's characters are locked at max level 65 because they unsubbed at the previous expansion and are unable to get to level 70 until they resub for 1 month to increase the level cap) - Warzone Cap = unlimited regular warzones if character is at current game max level (70 right now) You might as well give the whole game away for free. I know with the amount of time I play now, that I would unsub and go preferred if all of that was included. I’ve 31 Alts just on SF and 27 of them are max lvl. I mainly play pvp as my preferred content, so why would I ever sub again? It should be more like this (only a rough outline of some ideas) F2P - credit cap 1.5 mil - no Operations - 4 x SM Flash Points - 2 x WZs pops per week. (No ranked) Cannot group with subscribers to get more - no event weeklies and only one days worth of event dailies - no new content till 6 months after more newer content is added. But no rewarded companions or epic gear. - 10 x GSF Preferred - credit cap 2.5 mil - 5 SM Operations - unlimited SM & VM flash points - 5 X WZs and able to group with subs to do more (no ranked) - unrestricted events - New Content unrestricted to what they’ve already played while they were subbed (ie, if they are subbed to finish all the new content, they can have access to it on that Alts and one other that hasn’t done it. But they must have been “subbed” to get that content. Not just preferred of referrals) - Unlimited GSF Plus+ passes - Pass for unlimited PVP for 2 weeks - Pass for 10 MM Operations - Pass for unlimited MM of VM flash points for 1 month - Pass for new content for a week (this is not a substitute for subbing and doesn’t give unrestricted access after. A sub is required for that) .... plus other passes I’ve probably not thought of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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