Gear Acquisition Feedback - Spoils of War

[EricMusco]

Hey folks,

 

As we talked about on the Spoils of War stream, gear acquisition is seeing some big changes. From drops being relevant to your item rating, being able to gear from your favorite content, deconstruction, crafting changes, and the new item vendors, a lot is changing. Let us know your thoughts!

 

-eric

[lord-angelus]

OK so just to clarify, you talked about different sets and bonuses for different disciplines. So for mara and sniper they have to acquire and carry 3 different sets with them?

[Lhancelot]

So how will PVPers truly gear their way, then? Exactly what is going to change that allows players who want to gear solely through PVP to do it?

 

I will check out the stream soon when I got time to focus on it. It's nice to see you guys show some real zeal with upcoming additions to the game.

 

I really hope this expansion proves to be a nice success. I think not only would the game really enjoy some success, the people behind the game could really do for some positivity and success.

 

Godspeed to you and your team, Eric.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Lhancelot

[hillerbees]

I hope the materials for crafting will be widely available in the planets rather than in the operations. I was very disappointed to find the recent top end gear required items from operations which made the crafting suitable only to crafting ops players rather than crafters in general.

 

I have no problem highly desirable items should require lots of different crafting materials but not impossible to get crafting materials which make the crafting of the item prohibitively expensive in either time or resources.

[hillerbees]

...also I get the feeling that, as per usual the crafted unmodable gear will be viewed as second rate to that aquired through play. This is a little disappointing, its been a while since crafters were made feel useful.

[aerockyul]

This has been mentioned by others for a while now, but with the added ability to move more gear through legacy, will there be a chance you guys will add another Legacy Bay Inventory Tab? A lot of people are running out/have run out of space and this will only compound that problem.

[Agenteaglestrike]

As far as Gear Acquisition goes - it was said that once you gain the "Shell" of a item, with the desired effect/modifier to your skill / abilities.

 

So on that, how do you make it so that we do want to upgrade the shell? Better Amplifier budgets? A better min-max budget? I ask in the spirit of getting the item once and then just upgrading it indefinitely, is going to limit the life span of gear hunting.

 

A solution (Whilst involved a whole new game system) would be items have a health/durability where you can use the same item to repair your equipped item, with each change / re-roll you do to an item deteriorates the parent gear piece.

[Savej]

Currently, my main goal of completing conquests and getting money and doing pve is so that ultimately I can get my 7-ish main characters perfectly geared for PVP. That's a goal I will never meet and I'm fine with that - I have a couple that are there and legacy sets make the others very usable as I chip away at them. I'm not rushing.

 

But it sounds a lot like there's no reason to get gear for PVP anymore: watching this stream made me feel ill about half way through. If I don't see a reason, many more people will also figure the same thing (they tend to). I don't want to overreact, throw an internal tantrum and destroy over 8 years of investment (19 characters at 300cxp, over 50 at level 70, at least 10 with over 80 valor ranks), but 95% of this whole gearing system sounds pointless for me as a pvper. That extra 5% to get a tactical whatever or a set bonus I like sounds very finite and the idea of hoping for 1 random super rare item to drop and nothing else gives me flashbacks.

 

Dealing with wild balance swings yet again with the set bonuses and amplifiers (and new class abilities), also, not fun for me. It's not fun -having- an overwhelming advantage and it's certainly not fun fighting a fight I have 0 chance of winning due to experiments or uncaught bugs. The current bolster was being fixed years after release. This doesn't sound less complicated and the dev count is probably smaller than it was.

 

*Don't get me wrong I like the stories and the arcs but the idea of rolling yet another alt for any of the class stories and going through Kotfe/Kotet/etc/Ossus for the umpteenth time also holds 0 interest for me. They are not compelling repeatable content for me and most of those umpteen runs were OCD driven. I created so many characters to flesh out legacies on other servers back when servers were losing populations - I've not created any new ones since the merge.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Savej

[sharkfishman]

...also I get the feeling that, as per usual the crafted unmodable gear will be viewed as second rate to that aquired through play. This is a little disappointing, its been a while since crafters were made feel useful.

 

What I think is happening is there's a disconnect between crafters and devs (at least the way it appeared to me during the livestream).

 

Devs think: Crafters enjoy crafting and want to progress their characters by crafting gear for them.

 

Crafters think: We like money. Money, money, money. Nobody actually "likes" crafting devs. We do it to make money. If it won't sell, it's worthless.

 

Devs: No, no way. Why would anyone craft to make money? Obviously people do it because it's fun to loot nodes to gather resources and command your minions to do something you can't actually participate in. Crafting is FUN!

[xSssoulx]

howdy

You mentioned during the stream that item rating will be the determining, what gear will be dropping form mobs, correct?

What happens if i go in full max gear(lets say 300rating) into sm operation will the bosses be dropping 300 rating pieces for me? or SM HM NIM operations will have more or less set loot? example SM 270-280, HM 281-290 and NiM 291-300?

Edited May 31, 2019 by xSssoulx

[sharkfishman]

In theory, I love the way this gearing sounds.

 

If it's done in the non P2W way you're currently making it sounds, everything would be great. Running anything to gear is awesome. Rerolling 36 different AMPs + doesn't sound as much fun, but as long as drop chances are equal, it would be great.

 

The roaming tactical vendor / AMP vendor sounds fun too (W A R F R A M E), I've liked those systems in the past.

 

However... I have yet to hear anything related to how you are going to finance this little endeavor. That makes me very, very scared, because we all know everything is monetized somehow, and you're talking about 5 months of test server overhauls for every class in the game...

 

I just want to beg and plead, please... please don't turn this into a micro-transaction thing. To sum it up: motivating subs to stay subbed and playing ... great!!! Microtransaction gearing system in a sub-based game... no way!

[Lakemine]

In theory, I love the way this gearing sounds.

 

If it's done in the non P2W way you're currently making it sounds, everything would be great. Running anything to gear is awesome. Rerolling 36 different AMPs + doesn't sound as much fun, but as long as drop chances are equal, it would be great.

 

The roaming tactical vendor / AMP vendor sounds fun too (W A R F R A M E), I've liked those systems in the past.

 

However... I have yet to hear anything related to how you are going to finance this little endeavor. That makes me very, very scared, because we all know everything is monetized somehow, and you're talking about 5 months of test server overhauls for every class in the game...

 

I just want to beg and plead, please... please don't turn this into a micro-transaction thing. To sum it up: motivating subs to stay subbed and playing ... great!!! Microtransaction gearing system in a sub-based game... no way!

 

I could be wrong, but someone asked if there was a way to buy anything that was mentioned in the stream for CC, tac items or amps or gear (beyond the free basic gear set with the insta lv70, soon to be lv75), and the devs said no. Its all earned ingame through play, not buying with just money.

[Lakemine]

This has been mentioned by others for a while now, but with the added ability to move more gear through legacy, will there be a chance you guys will add another Legacy Bay Inventory Tab? A lot of people are running out/have run out of space and this will only compound that problem.

 

I need like 5-6 more lol:D

[Lakemine]

Currently, my main goal of completing conquests and getting money and doing pve is so that ultimately I can get my 7-ish main characters perfectly geared for PVP. That's a goal I will never meet and I'm fine with that - I have a couple that are there and legacy sets make the others very usable as I chip away at them. I'm not rushing.

 

But it sounds a lot like there's no reason to get gear for PVP anymore: watching this stream made me feel ill about half way through. If I don't see a reason, many more people will also figure the same thing (they tend to). I don't want to overreact, throw an internal tantrum and destroy over 8 years of investment (19 characters at 300cxp, over 50 at level 70, at least 10 with over 80 valor ranks), but 95% of this whole gearing system sounds pointless for me as a pvper. That extra 5% to get a tactical whatever or a set bonus I like sounds very finite and the idea of hoping for 1 random super rare item to drop and nothing else gives me flashbacks.

 

Dealing with wild balance swings yet again with the set bonuses and amplifiers (and new class abilities), also, not fun for me. It's not fun -having- an overwhelming advantage and it's certainly not fun fighting a fight I have 0 chance of winning due to experiments or uncaught bugs. The current bolster was being fixed years after release. This doesn't sound less complicated and the dev count is probably smaller than it was.

 

*Don't get me wrong I like the stories and the arcs but the idea of rolling yet another alt for any of the class stories and going through Kotfe/Kotet/etc/Ossus for the umpteenth time also holds 0 interest for me. They are not compelling repeatable content for me and most of those umpteen runs were OCD driven. I created so many characters to flesh out legacies on other servers back when servers were losing populations - I've not created any new ones since the merge.

 

Then im guessing its bad news for you to hear that the bolster will be set to max gear level and only tac items, set bonuses and amps will go over that balance? (Don't know about augs, although I would like to know that answer.)

 

I completely understand where your mindset is. I personally do not like gear being needed for pvp, it removes the balance. I like everyone being on the same stat level across the board, then it comes down to knowledge of class, other classes, maps and objectives. Then its real balance. Its why I like pvp in GW2, no gear needed. And it why I liked pvp in Destiny 2, but then left with Forsaken. Pvp didn't used to need gear and everyone as at the same light level (gear stat wise), I could go into ranked with a fresh made character and win because I knew my class and even though I had a crud weapon, I still made due. But that got changed in Forsaken (among many other changes I detested) and that is why I left.

 

Pvp currently in SWTOR is ok, not to where I want it, but also not completely stupid one sided overpowered, because you don't have the same rating of gear level, like it was some years ago. So we shall see how this new tier of gear (bolster) works.

 

 

Interestingly though, how would you change it to make you play pvp longer but also have other people play pvp (so there are people to play with) who don't like disproportionate gear gaps to where they get 1-2 shotted?

 

EDIT: Oh also forgot to add, unranked pvp will NOT drop top tier gear, only ranked will.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Lakemine

[Savej]

Then im guessing its bad news for you to hear that the bolster will be set to max gear level and only tac items, set bonuses and amps will go over that balance? (Don't know about augs, although I would like to know that answer.)

 

In my opinion it sucks for the game but I guess we'll see.

 

Gear is not a completely overpowering part of the game right now and anyone that wants it can get a very usable set with a little effort.

 

I'm guessing you don't pvp much in this game and never have, right? How much do you really think that's going to change with the new system (especially if it turns out you're still being overpowered by bad class combos, tactical thingies, premades and whatever else)? On the one hand you might pvp a little more for a few weeks but at the same time someone like me pvps a lot less - that means less active qs in the grand scheme of things. It will take a lot of new occasional pvpers to balance out losing regulars like me. I seriously doubt that's going to happen.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Savej

[Lakemine]

In my opinion it sucks for the game but I guess we'll see.

 

Gear is not a completely overpowering part of the game right now and anyone that wants it can get a very usable set with a little effort.

 

I'm guessing you don't pvp much in this game and never have, right? How much do you really think that's going to change with the new system (especially if it turns out you're still being overpowered by bad class combos, tactical thingies, premades and whatever else)? On the one hand you might pvp a little more for a few weeks but at the same time someone like me pvps a lot less - that means less active qs in the grand scheme of things. It will take a lot of new occasional pvpers to balance out losing regulars like me. I seriously doubt that's going to happen.

 

Im at 41800+ kills for the Manhunter, so im working on getting there.

 

But we shall see. I just detest as soon as I see someone, I turn around and I don't get one attack off and im already at 20% health because of 2 attacks. Hopefully there will be enough people on the PTR to test out pvp as well.

[Lakemine]

I know this is not specifically about 60, but more 4.0. But if there is time to go back and redo the Alliance Crates, I would be very happy.

 

Turn it to a currency based system, instead of gambling boxes. Just 1-5 currency from each box, and then we can go to 1 of 4 (since 2 classes per commander) vendors and buy whatever armor piece we want.

 

Even if it can not be implemented due to time limits and work loads before 6.0, at least put it on a QoL change roadmap or something? Or let the devs know so its on their minds. Would be greatly appreciated.

[PennyAnn]

This has been mentioned by others for a while now, but with the added ability to move more gear through legacy, will there be a chance you guys will add another Legacy Bay Inventory Tab? A lot of people are running out/have run out of space and this will only compound that problem.

 

They are adding a separate legacy crafting bay to help clear out some space in your legacy storage. They didn't give a bunch of details about it really, but they are definitely implementing a legacy crafting storage separate from the other so that your crafting materials can all go there instead of the main legacy storage bays.

 

.

[sharkfishman]

I could be wrong, but someone asked if there was a way to buy anything that was mentioned in the stream for CC, tac items or amps or gear (beyond the free basic gear set with the insta lv70, soon to be lv75), and the devs said no. Its all earned ingame through play, not buying with just money.

 

Yes, they also said it was subject to change.

 

That's why I was just reinforcing how strongly the player base (well, I mean, me, but I think it's a common sentiment) dislikes p2w schemes in sub-based games.

 

I wasn't suspecting they would out and sell AMPs straight up on the marketplace. What I'm worried about is that you'll need to rank them up/breakthrough or that AMPs will have variable stats depending on how "lucky" you are. For example, will there only be ONE "Armor Piercing" mod? Or will you go through RNG to get the Armor Piercing mod, and then hope that it's Armor Piercing rank III instead of rank I. See what I mean?

 

I don't know any of this. I hope this system is exactly as non-p2w as they made it sound. I've just also learned that MMOs typically find a way to change great ideas for the worse.

 

Remember that scene from Galaxy Quest?

 

"Sure, they're cute now. But in a second... they're gonna get ugly somehow."

[TrixxieTriss]

I like the crafting idea, as long as the mats are not gated behind Operations and Ranked pvp.

Doing so limits the whole “play the way you want to”.

It would mean only the top end players or people who like that stuff can craft.

 

Edit : changed behind gated to not behind gated

Edited May 31, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

Yes, they also said it was subject to change.

 

That's why I was just reinforcing how strongly the player base (well, I mean, me, but I think it's a common sentiment) dislikes p2w schemes in sub-based games.

 

I wasn't suspecting they would out and sell AMPs straight up on the marketplace. What I'm worried about is that you'll need to rank them up/breakthrough or that AMPs will have variable stats depending on how "lucky" you are. For example, will there only be ONE "Armor Piercing" mod? Or will you go through RNG to get the Armor Piercing mod, and then hope that it's Armor Piercing rank III instead of rank I. See what I mean?

 

I don't know any of this. I hope this system is exactly as non-p2w as they made it sound. I've just also learned that MMOs typically find a way to change great ideas for the worse.

 

Remember that scene from Galaxy Quest?

 

"Sure, they're cute now. But in a second... they're gonna get ugly somehow."

 

I’ve not listened to the stream yet, but if the game goes p2w, then I’m gone. That will be the last straw for me.

 

Edit : listened to stream, p2w won’t be happening,

Edited May 31, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[merovejec]

So like what you are saying is that its best to go full 258 into this expansion so that you have the highest chance to get highest possible gear from the start?

[Costello]

You say 'Play your way' which is great.

 

You say 'Harder content will be more rewarding' which is right.

 

However you then seem to think by harder it has to be group content with raids/operations and ranked pvp. Which seems to contradict the first two points, what you meant to say is play operations and pvp to gear up; you were even laughing at the idea that anyone would use Galactic Renown to gear up as its totally suboptimal and a supplementary option, it didn't even really tie into the diagram being out on the right.

 

If your design is to play your way, why is there never an option for people that don't want to do raids or ranked PvP; that no longer see a night spent grinding through mechanics or being subject to win trading as fun.

 

You spoke on the stream how the different set bonuses might require different number of parts and how this could allow mixing and matching, it was suggested that this was similar to the ESO system. Which is all a good thing, its a very good game.

 

However all of this gear acquisition appears like you are ignoring content in place of yet another gear grind; with I'm sure the plan being to be more easily add new gear grinds as you release the next FOTM set to get people to regrind. Can we look forward to a few hours of story content all year, and then the focus being on gearing up with this uber sets as you have balanced the game and pvp round the ability for my assassin to be able to force shroud someone else? Or will a game that some consider far to easy already become trivial when my sorc can one shot lightning everything?

 

If you are going to look to ESO, look at the levels of content they release and the play your way system. I've had max gear there for years and I don't have any great desire to grind anything out there, instead I log in to enjoy the game world, the constantly improving and added story.

[Joonbeams]

Gear, Renown XP, and vendor currency have to be earnable from character level 1. This has to happen...

[force-unleasher]

First of all want to say that I rarely use the forum but I am going to use it more since you guys want to communicate with us. And that is something that is greatly appreciated! Believe me, some of the people here may express themselves more sharply than others and I understand it must be furstrating for you guys to try and cater to everyone and that's why I want you to know that your effort is greatly appreciated.

 

About the gearing changes - I really liked the example Eric gave us in the stream: As of right now doing Flashpoints, even Master Mode, on my L70 characters doesn't yield me ANY form of certain gratification in terms of gear rewards. I get 3-4 Rare CXP packs and 1-2 Super Rare which I then decide on which toon to use. And guess what - I am stockpiling them in the legacy storage, and then, depending on the DvL event - I use them on various other characters. But all of this feels extremely unrewarding and here's why:

 

I literally don't use the CXP packs on my Rank 300 character because the chance of getting a 248 piece (which is 2 tiers below the max) is so small and insignificant, that I need to open 20-30+ crates, and even then - I may get an earpiece or implant that I just don't need in terms of stats. So even though most of my character's gear is already 248 and 252, those last 248 pieces take forever to grind and I hate the fact that I can get stronger gear more consistently (from Ossus). It doesn't make any sense.

 

So having a certain (even maybe a bit slow) way of gearing our characters through any content is really appealing to me. Because the system we have right now is some kind of impostor to the one we *hopefully* get in 6.0. It's supposed to reward you for everything you do in-game but not exactly: it's really slow and full of unprotected RNG like getting specific pieces of gear instead of tokens in Command Crates. Or getting the same pair of gloves instead of having some kind of protection where the game will no longer drop gloves for you from Command Crates.

 

 

As to both of the vendors being RNG - what?? Why would you do that...... The one that spawns sometimes - ok. But if you make us spend our hard earned Charles Points on more RNG.... most of the people will not be amused. Just give us normal vendors like the ones we had with commendations before - that allow us to spend that new currency on something of our choice.

For example I see that I need Legs on a character, and I grind for 2-3 days - do various Operations, Master Mode Flashpoints, even Daliy areas and Heroics, and then I go to the vendor and get my damn Legs. The majority of my Charles Points came from harder content but I supplemented that with easier Solo Daily content and after that I got the item I wanted. That is what is exciting to me!! Feeling rewarded for my hard work. Having a plan on what item will I get if I do X and Y thing in-game.

Edited May 31, 2019 by force-unleasher