Hutt Ball type maps pops 2 out of 3 maps constantly

[olagatonjedi]

I’ve a solution (maybe) to that. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=961368

 

It’s not exaclty the same method as queuing, but it has a similar mechanism for some choice.

The idea is too still get people to queue for the least liked maps. The only way you do that is with incentives. The same as Bioware do now to lure people into pvp and ranked who may not play it without the incentives.

 

I’m still trying to get Eric to acknowledge he’s read the thread and passed it onto the team ??

I appreciate the well thought out attempt, but the reward system would need to see a significant revamp/gutting in order to properly incentivize the full range of pvp maps vs a selection. Even the FP selection system doesnt adequately incentivize/decentivize both spectrums, and the impact of the select few FP can definitely be seen by queue times being significantly longer (sometimes days, in my own personal experience). Thats a huge hurdle to overcome in developing a good system.

[TrixxieTriss]

I appreciate the well thought out attempt, but the reward system would need to see a significant revamp/gutting in order to properly incentivize the full range of pvp maps vs a selection. Even the FP selection system doesnt adequately incentivize/decentivize both spectrums, and the impact of the select few FP can definitely be seen by queue times being significantly longer (sometimes days, in my own personal experience). Thats a huge hurdle to overcome in developing a good system.

 

I don’t disagree. The rewards around the idea presented would need to be balanced enough to encourage people to play.

Rewards by themselves aren’t enough, they need to be part of the package to enhance the experience. The rewards have to be built around the extra missions (weekly/dailies) in a way that pops don’t deminish and people still feel a sense of achievement and choice.

It’s not a simple undertaking, but it is something that is possible within the frame work of an expansion that could make changes to the gearing and currency systems around pvp.

I would rather have that as “new pvp content” than another map. For me, pvp content isn’t mulple maps, it’s playing multiple matches that are always different. Of course you need to have enough maps and types of maps to keep that interesting. But I think we’ve probably got enough when you consider some of the current maps hardly pop and we already have 3 HB maps (please don’t add more).

[Ksiphon]

Just let me deselect Vandin and Quesh.

Also why do exactly these 2 maps pop so often, when i want to pvp?

[Lhancelot]

Just let me deselect Vandin and Quesh.

Also why do exactly these 2 maps pop so often, when i want to pvp?

 

Yep. Has been this way for years with Quesh, at least since it was added to the game.

 

Quesh HB popped far more frequently than the original HB, and when OPG was added VOILA we had a nice rotation between OPG and Quesh HB with light sprinkles of other maps ever since.

 

I bet Vandin now got added to the short list of maps that have a higher percentage to pop than the others.

 

I got to the point I would quit either one when not in the mood to play them and I once held the mentality that quitting WZs before they started was lame. I only can take so many Quesh HBs or OPGs in a day of queuing.

 

Hopefully one day they figure out a way to allow people to have some control over their WZ selection.

 

As it stands right now, people just quit maps they dislike, and that ruins the match often times when people keep dropping maps they don't like and the team ends up with lesser players etc.

[Storm-Cutter]

If BW stopped scaring away players, rewarding people who play WZ better, and encouraged a lot more people to play and keep playing WZ, then you could let each player prioritize which maps they preferred and still guarantee pops.

 

Sometimes it feels like there are only a couple of dozen people in the queue ( long time between pops and a lot of the same faces once it does trigger) and that really can't be good or healthy for the game.

[TrixxieTriss]

If BW stopped scaring away players, rewarding people who play WZ better, and encouraged a lot more people to play and keep playing WZ, then you could let each player prioritize which maps they preferred and still guarantee pops.

 

Sometimes it feels like there are only a couple of dozen people in the queue ( long time between pops and a lot of the same faces once it does trigger) and that really can't be good or healthy for the game.

 

Something I have noticed, if you leave a game, you won’t pop into another that fast and you certainly don’t pop back into the same game like you use to.

 

The reason I know this.

The last few days I’ve been lvling up a new Alt in lowbie pvp. Because it’s lowbies and because of the times I play, it’s usually all arena matches.

When the game has been popped 2v4 matches, some of us have tried to leave and requeue before the game starts so that the other team has another person. But that doesn’t pop us into the match and the game becomes 2v3.

Those of us in these games are usually the same 6-8 players and we talk between teams each match and have tested this.

Everyone agrees that it will not pop you into the match, even though it hasn’t started or even after the first round.

But, if you join the queue and didn’t leave that match, it will back fill you into it,

Once again, tested this by swapping Alts.

 

So does that mean that Bioware have added a ninja time out for people who leave matches?

This would explain why queue pops seems a bit slower even when we have plenty of people queued because so many people are leaving maps they dont want to play, ie Hutt Ball.

Edited March 20, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[Talinis]

I think option 1, where each map is weighted equally is the objectively best route to take. Each map is uniquely different even if the objective remains the same on some. Having novare coast or hypergate with the SAME MAP pop literally every other match instead of just a lot of the time would make me likely quit PVP all together. I would hate to play the same literal map over and over. At least with the current system, you get a nice variety of maps and change of scenery.

 

Also, what I think we are seeing here is people are biased against what they don't like. When you dislike something, it is easy to focus on that and feel like you are getting it all the time. For example, I really don't like novare coast. So when I queue, it basically and almost literally seems I get novare coast every third match at the very least. Some nights I do 10 matches and half of those are Novare coast. Now part of this is also due to the random number generator.

 

Some people complain about the huttball maps popping more than the other maps. However, as you can see with Trixxie's numbers, what she is really complaining about is actually unfounded confirmed by the data and just personal bias toward a certain type of gameplay.

 

Original Hutt Ball - 14

Quesh Hutt Ball - 9

Vandin Hutt Ball - 15

(Total HB maps - 38)

 

Odessen Proving - 10

 

Nova Coast - 7

Civil War - 7

Yavin - 7

(Total 3 point maps - 21)

 

Void Star - 17

Hypergates - 16

Arena(s) - 21

 

 

As you can see with the numbers, both void star and hypergate individually popped more than any huttball map. Since we know the system is basically a random number generator, we know with such a small average that it is easy to get unbalanced pops per map. As I stated earlier, some nights I get 4 out of 7 matches as Novare coast (literally 3 in a row), other nights I only get it once. But it shows we are getting a healthy change of map rotation.

 

Again, I think the best solution is to keep each map weighted individually so that everyone is able to get a wide variety of maps, even if they may not like a certain playstyle, until a system is able to be developed to opt out of certain maps. Otherwise, the queue will literally be just odessen, novare coast, void star and hypergate map repeated over and over. I get novare coast and hypergate enough as it is. As much as a few others want to make huttball pop as LITTLE as possible, an objective and fair mindset would see that all maps are favored equally for now.

 

Thank you for your time Eric!

Edited March 20, 2019 by Talinis

[RACATW]

I think option 1, where each map is weighted equally is the objectively best route to take. Each map is uniquely different even if the objective remains the same on some. Having novare coast or hypergate with the SAME MAP pop literally every other match instead of just a lot of the time would make me likely quit PVP all together. I would hate to play the same literal map over and over. At least with the current system, you get a nice variety of maps and change of scenery.

 

Also, what I think we are seeing here is people are biased against what they don't like. When you dislike something, it is easy to focus on that and feel like you are getting it all the time. For example, I really don't like novare coast. So when I queue, it basically and almost literally seems I get novare coast every third match at the very least. Some nights I do 10 matches and half of those are Novare coast. Now part of this is also due to the random number generator.

 

Some people complain about the huttball maps popping more than the other maps. However, as you can see with Trixxie's numbers, what she is really complaining about is actually unfounded confirmed by the data and just personal bias toward a certain type of gameplay.

 

 

 

 

As you can see with the numbers, both void star and hypergate individually popped more than any huttball map. Since we know the system is basically a random number generator, we know with such a small average that it is easy to get unbalanced pops per map. As I stated earlier, some nights I get 4 out of 7 matches as Novare coast (literally 3 in a row), other nights I only get it once. But it shows we are getting a healthy change of map rotation.

 

Again, I think the best solution is to keep each map weighted individually so that everyone is able to get a wide variety of maps, even if they may not like a certain playstyle, until a system is able to be developed to opt out of certain maps. Otherwise, the queue will literally be just odessen, novare coast, void star and hypergate map repeated over and over. I get novare coast and hypergate enough as it is. As much as a few others want to make huttball pop as LITTLE as possible, an objective and fair mindset would see that all maps are favored equally for now.

 

Thank you for your time Eric!

 

Flawed premise to suggest others are biased when you suggest forcing everyone to experience a specific type of gameplay more than any other.

 

The frequency of huttball has actually managed to ruin my love for it. I used to be one of the most avid objectives players in that wz; now I prefer to simply hold mid or worse, leave.

Edited March 20, 2019 by RACATW

[TrixxieTriss]

Some people complain about the huttball maps popping more than the other maps. However, as you can see with Trixxie's numbers, what she is really complaining about is actually unfounded confirmed by the data and just personal bias toward a certain type of gameplay.

If read any of my other posts you would realise that I’m not biased against Hutt Ball. I actually like Hutt Ball and the original has been my favourite pvp map since it was released. Ranked HB was awesome and we even suggested a HB league.

So please don’t try saying I have a personal Bias against HB, because you are misrepresenting how I actually feel about it (for the record, there is only one map I am biased against and that is OPG, which I hate with a passion)

 

I’m also not complaining about indivual HB pops, I’m concerned that the HB style of map pops way more often than any other. This is causing a lot of resentment with players because people rage quit at the start of the matches and even I get sick of every second pop being a HB match.

 

I’m not alone with this either. You only need to queue and see how many people complain every time a HB map pops or how many people quit before it starts or just as it starts.

Im sure Bioware has the means to check the data on how many people rage quit HB as soon as they pop. I think if you were to compare that to all other 8v8 maps, you would see stats HB over represented as well as OPG (another map that seems to make people quit when it pops). If I was Bioware, I would look at these stats and see if what I’m saying is right or wrong. Only hard evidence can put that perception to bed.

 

As you can see with the numbers, both void star and hypergate individually popped more than any huttball map. Since we know the system is basically a random number generator, we know with such a small average that it is easy to get unbalanced pops per map. As I stated earlier, some nights I get 4 out of 7 matches as Novare coast (literally 3 in a row), other nights I only get it once. But it shows we are getting a healthy change of map rotation.

 

I’ve still been collecting the numbers and I can say that HB style maps combined represent 41% of total 8v8 maps that have popped for me over a 2 week period. I’m up too 167 matches

 

But you are correct about Void Star, it does have a higher pop rate for a single map, but it is on par with Vandin and original HB is close behind. Sadly, Hypergate pops started to declined (HG is my second fav map).

In the last two weeks, Nova coast has popped the least of any map.

 

The issue at hand isnt how many of the same map pop in a row. That is a different problem altogether and I admit it should be fixed too. But it isn’t about maps popping in a row, it’s about the total amount of the same map types popping way too much everyday of the week. It’s why I didn’t provide the data on how many of the same maps popped one after the other (let add though, that Vandin was the worst with that)

 

You don’t need to use my numbers. Collect your own over a 2 week period and present the numbers. I think you might be a bit shocked. I know I was to see Void Star pop so much because I had the impression before that it didn’t pop much.

Edited March 20, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[Majspuffen]

You don’t need to use my numbers. Collect your own over a 2 week period and present the numbers. I think you might be a bit shocked. I know I was to see Void Star pop so much because I had the impression before that it didn’t pop much.

 

I did this over an extended period of time back in 2012 because I felt like Huttball popped the least out of all the maps. My results were:

Civil war: 77

Voidstar: 67

Novare Coast: 60

Huttball: 58

 

So if my numbers were correct, Huttball did indeed pop the least out of all WZs. I was a bit conspirational back then because Huttball received so much hate because it was the most common WZ the first couple of months during the game, so I thought BioWare actually weighed it so it would pop less than the others. That was probably not true. It's just sod's law. If I were to list them according to which I like the most that list would be upside down.

 

I agree with Talinis; it's best if they don't do anything and keep it as it is. Yes, we will see Huttball more frequently because there are now more Huttball maps, but there are equally many capture point maps (or more, depending on how you want to define it). This weekend I experienced three Vandin Huttball maps in a row, which was then followed by Yavin, Yavin, Civil War and Yavin. It happens. I don't see the issue.

[olagatonjedi]

I think one thing people are missing is that if people leave a huttball match, and you queue after them, it will likely send you in to take their place. This can lead to a variety of misconceptions and poor conclusions based on each players personal view. Then multiply those misconceptions for every scenario of queueing.

 

Some examples and food for thought:

Because a player left, does it mean the map/gamestyle is unpopular, or just not that 1 persons personal preference?

 

If the player had not left in the first place, the joining player may not have ever been sent to a HB map in the first place. Understanding the cause and effect involved may lead to less frustration and feelings that the system is broken. After all, people DO want the option to leave if they want to, right?

 

2 players may come away feeling HB pops more frequently than other WZs, when in fact both of their experiences still count as as a single occurence, not 2. This can lead to misconceptions, especially if both players verbalize their frustrations without such understanding.

 

Of course poor play, and the variety of different reasons for queuing have to always be understood as well. Some people queue to focus on winning/objectives. Some people queue to focus on a weekly medal quest. Some people focus on just completing the WZ. Some people focus on achievements. Some people are getting their feet wet in PVP for the first time. 16 people, at all times, may be queuing with 16 completely different goals, which is part of the unknown provided in each queue pop. Nobody knows how easy or difficult this specific queue will be, regardless of the map, because you dont know the intentions of all of your teammates (at least 50% of them minimum). Sometimes you carry, sometimes you dont need to.

Edited March 20, 2019 by olagatonjedi

[TrixxieTriss]

I think one thing people are missing is that if people leave a huttball match, and you queue after them, it will likely send you in to take their place. This can lead to a variety of misconceptions and poor conclusions based on each players personal view. Then multiply those misconceptions for every scenario of queueing.

 

Some examples and food for thought:

Because a player left, does it mean the map/gamestyle is unpopular, or just not that 1 persons personal preference?

 

If the player had not left in the first place, the joining player may not have ever been sent to a HB map in the first place. Understanding the cause and effect involved may lead to less frustration and feelings that the system is broken. After all, people DO want the option to leave if they want to, right?

 

2 players may come away feeling HB pops more frequently than other WZs, when in fact both of their experiences still count as as a single occurence, not 2. This can lead to misconceptions, especially if both players verbalize their frustrations without such understanding.

 

Of course poor play, and the variety of different reasons for queuing have to always be understood as well. Some people queue to focus on winning/objectives. Some people queue to focus on a weekly medal quest. Some people focus on just completing the WZ. Some people focus on achievements. Some people are getting their feet wet in PVP for the first time. 16 people, at all times, may be queuing with 16 completely different goals, which is part of the unknown provided in each queue pop. Nobody knows how easy or difficult this specific queue will be, regardless of the map, because you dont know the intentions of all of your teammates (at least 50% of them minimum). Sometimes you carry, sometimes you dont need to.

 

They are good points. Especially the back fill one. What would be interesting to know is how many people actually leave HB pops compared to other maps. I don’t mean rage quit because they are losing etc, I mean before the match starts.

 

If there are more than average (compared to other rmaps), that will have it’s own flow on affects of back filling people who may not have popped a HB next match.

 

The other negative affect is team balance because when the system tries to match make the game, it’s based on those 16 people who originally popped. When you get backfills, they aren’t matched and you often get a stream of players joining and leaving one team when they realise it’s a HB pop and the team is losing because of random people popping in and leaving, which can essentially mean playing without a full team for most of the match. (Too many people wait till the last second to leave before the match starts).

 

They are some of the reasons even more people dislike HB then probably would. If they get put into more HB matches than they would have, they get HB overload (which is like what’s happening at the moment, people have HB overload)

 

HB is one of those maps that if you start out badly, lots of people give up really early and start death matching because they think they can’t win. Which means if you pop a HB and see your team is down in goals, especially if they haven’t scored at all, then it’s an instant leave for most people.

 

Where as you can pop most other maps and turn them into a win if you aren’t past the half way mark. Even if you are past the half way mark, you can still turn some of them around with 2% remaining (ie Nova Coast). It’s because of this that more people stay if they back fill these matches.

 

Lastly, my impression is more people pop HB and leave it than any other map besides OPG. I think it would be extremely interesting if Bioware would release those raw numbers so we can see. But I doubt they will because it would be detrimental for them to do so.

I mean I hardly hear any one say, “it’s Void Star... or Hypergates.... or Nova Coast... I’m out”. The only times I ever hear grumbling about other maps is when they keep popping the same map in a row for too long. Even then, people only grumble, I can’t remember the last time someone actually left because the map popped again.

 

Which brings me to another point. If you pop the same map or type of map, over and over, aka, HB, then you get overloaded and can end up hating it.

Bioware don’t seem to understand this because everytime they release a new map, they put it so it’s pretty much the only map that pops. Then they leave it like that for too long and people end up with overload which leads to them hating the map. 3 of the most recent examples of this are Yavin, Vandin and Mando Arena.

 

When Yavin was released, I thought cool, I like this map (even if it was based off Civil War). It has some different mechanics like the side steps, it’s not as big and it has capping boosters. But Bioware made it pop so much that I started to hate it and I wasn’t alone with that. People were complaining loudly when it popped and then started to leave if it popped. This ultimately lead to forums threads complaining about it. I’ve only just started to like it again since it was released because “toooooo much of a good thing” is not usually good.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/too-much-of-a-good-thing

“ too much of a good thing. Too large an amount of a beneficial or useful thing or activity can be harmful or excessive”

This is exaclty the situation we’ve found ourselves in now with HB. Not just because Vandin was set to nearly always pop when it was first released (so too many people still hate it).

HB type maps are so uniquely different to any of the other maps. Hutt Ball is a sport, it requires real team work and just killing things won’t win you the game. It’s one of those maps that dps numbers mean nothing.

 

Hutt Ball is so fundamentally different than every other map and requires a different way of thinking. Even the most different of other maps in the game, Nova Coast, Void Star, Hypergates and even OPG (to a lesser extent) require the everyone to pull their weight when it comes to maxing their dps, healing or protection numbers (while still playing the objectives). That isn’t needed in HB. I’ve won matches where I’ve not done 30k, but scored 6 goals on my Jugg or even my sniper.

 

For better or worse, HB type maps are less popular than other maps because most people play the numbers game above winning or team work. With Vandin added, we now have a situation where HB makes up 1/3 of all maps in the queue. That means even if the queue system were to pop every map equally, people would still get 33% Hutt Ball maps. But this also isn’t happening because my own figures (how every limited) are giving me 41% of HB matches. That’s too much even for me and like HB (when it’s played right).

[TrixxieTriss]

I did this over an extended period of time back in 2012 because I felt like Huttball popped the least out of all the maps. My results were:

Civil war: 77

Voidstar: 67

Novare Coast: 60

Huttball: 58

 

So if my numbers were correct, Huttball did indeed pop the least out of all WZs. I was a bit conspirational back then because Huttball received so much hate because it was the most common WZ the first couple of months during the game, so I thought BioWare actually weighed it so it would pop less than the others. That was probably not true. It's just sod's law. If I were to list them according to which I like the most that list would be upside down.

 

I agree with Talinis; it's best if they don't do anything and keep it as it is. Yes, we will see Huttball more frequently because there are now more Huttball maps, but there are equally many capture point maps (or more, depending on how you want to define it). This weekend I experienced three Vandin Huttball maps in a row, which was then followed by Yavin, Yavin, Civil War and Yavin. It happens. I don't see the issue.

 

The difference is, HB was only 1/5 and not 1/3 of all the maps.

 

I know that Civil War, Yavin and to a lesser extent, Nova Coast, are all the same type of map, but they are also combat focused and balanced around combat vs objectives, those two goals are much more balanced. Unlike Hutt Ball which is heavily focus on objectives.

For better or worse, more people prefer killing and combat in pvp than playing objectives. Which means combat driven driven maps are more popular with the wider player base. I think this is why Void Star and Hypergates are some of the more poplar maps, with Civil War and Nova Coast coming in second.

If you treat NC, CW and Yavin the same as Hutt Ball, then you haven’t really done anything to change the situation. All you’ve done is made sure that Hypergates, Void Star and OPG will dominate the individual maps that pop.

You would affectively be removing 3/5 of the combat pops and increasing the Objective pops by 2/5 because OPG is more objective based than combat. (My maths might be out, but I think it’s good enough to make my point).You will then have a situation where people will start saying OPG pops too much.

 

I believe Bioware should do an offical public viewed (for transparency) survey or poll of subscribers (so Bioware have control over troll votes) and find out how people rate the invidual maps from 1-9. Then they should rate the map types from 1-5.

Then Bioware and us can see what maps and types of maps people prefer.

When that’s been determined, then Bioware will have a better idea of what players want.

[KendraP]

I believe Bioware should do an offical public viewed (for transparency) survey or poll of subscribers (so Bioware have control over troll votes) and find out how people rate the invidual maps from 1-9. Then they should rate the map types from 1-5.

Then Bioware and us can see what maps and types of maps people prefer.

When that’s been determined, then Bioware will have a better idea of what players want.

 

I mean they did just this for arenas... so idk why thry couldn't for WZ too.

 

But for whatever reason they're only focused on attempting to make ranked meaningful, which as long as theres a tiny population playing it and you can time queues with a simple search of /who, it won't be.

Edited March 20, 2019 by KendraP

[Majspuffen]

I know that Civil War, Yavin and to a lesser extent, Nova Coast, are all the same type of map, but they are also combat focused and balanced around combat vs objectives, those two goals are much more balanced. Unlike Hutt Ball which is heavily focus on objectives.

For better or worse, more people prefer killing and combat in pvp than playing objectives.

 

Definitely. More often than not, the objectives are just a pretext for people to go kill each other, which is a problem in many other "casually competitive" multiplayer games. It's no surprise that Blizzard decided not to include a scoreboard in Overwatch. I get the appeal of number-wh*ring, and if the opportunity presents itself I'll do it myself, but I always try to play for objectives first.

 

Which is why I hate Civil War. I mainly play classes with stealth so I often feel obligated to sit on defense duty (since very few volunteer for that task). A stealther is the ideal defender as well, but how fun is it? Occasionally it can be fun, but more often than not it's just tedious. Nothing makes me wanna quit the game more than when I'm being confined to defense duty. That doesn't happen in Huttball. Unless it's an absolute steamroll, I never find myself short of things to do in Huttball, be it running ahead for passes or playing defensively to intercept the ball. Voidstar is okay as well. Occasionally you'll find yourself sitting on defense twiddling your thumbs but that's quite rare. I guess the design of the map encourages assaulting players to switch doors.

[TrixxieTriss]

Definitely. More often than not, the objectives are just a pretext for people to go kill each other, which is a problem in many other "casually competitive" multiplayer games. It's no surprise that Blizzard decided not to include a scoreboard in Overwatch. I get the appeal of number-wh*ring, and if the opportunity presents itself I'll do it myself, but I always try to play for objectives first.

 

Which is why I hate Civil War. I mainly play classes with stealth so I often feel obligated to sit on defense duty (since very few volunteer for that task). A stealther is the ideal defender as well, but how fun is it? Occasionally it can be fun, but more often than not it's just tedious. Nothing makes me wanna quit the game more than when I'm being confined to defense duty. That doesn't happen in Huttball. Unless it's an absolute steamroll, I never find myself short of things to do in Huttball, be it running ahead for passes or playing defensively to intercept the ball. Voidstar is okay as well. Occasionally you'll find yourself sitting on defense twiddling your thumbs but that's quite rare. I guess the design of the map encourages assaulting players to switch doors.

 

Yeah, I definitely know how you feel playing a Sin with maps like Civil War. People expect you to guard as a stealth because they really do have an advantage. But it can be boring as hell, especially if it’s just one big number crunching game at mid.

Civil war also has longer travel times between nodes, so there is less zerging between nodes. That is one thing I like about Yavin. Those steps on the side really make a difference with how fluid the map can be.

 

I also like Hutt Ball because every class is viable and isn’t left to guard. I can often score on my sniper because I position, reposition, run the ball, support the ball, hold mid... etc.

But if your team only wants to death match, the game can be more one sided than any other map and it ruins the experience more for me than any other map. It’s one of those maps that I can really get triggered in if people don’t try because it’s my favourite.

 

I hate losing, but I’d rather lose with a team that’s trying, then win with a team who doesn’t. I’ve lost count of how many matches I’ve single handily scored all 6 goals in record times because my team and the other team are too busy death matching to even get the ball or try and stop me from scoring.

It’s why I love and hate the new exploding ball.

I love it because it resets if some death matcher gets it and just runs around all match and won’t pass and no one can kill them.

I hate that I can’t always score solo to get those death match vs death match games over fast. Vandin is the hardest to solo score. It comes down to if the traps are up or down at the right times and also what class you are on.

Surprisingly I even love Quesh Ball. I just wish they would fix the bugs and dysnc and people would try to win.

 

Now we have 3 HB maps, it’s just too much when most matches people don’t try. More People want to death match, it’s as simple as that, but Bioware keep making maps that lean more towards objectives than fighting. OPG, while a good idea, wasn’t the right sort of map for this player base. It takes a special sort of mind set to play properly and death match people don’t think that way.

So now we have 4 out of 9 pvp maps being more objective based than fighting and adding that last HB was the last straw for many combat driven players. IMO, 3 HB maps is too much, even for someone who loves HB. It only makes sense to have 3 HB maps if you also have a HB league to go along with it (which would be awesome).

Edited March 21, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[Talinis]

Flawed premise to suggest others are biased when you suggest forcing everyone to experience a specific type of gameplay more than any other.

 

The frequency of huttball has actually managed to ruin my love for it. I used to be one of the most avid objectives players in that wz; now I prefer to simply hold mid or worse, leave.

 

Actually is the exact opposite of a flawed premise. There are 9 maps. Every map should have an equal opportunity to pop. The maps themselves differ enough to create a change in scenery and play, even if the STYLE of objective is the same. Sure, I get another huttball, but the way I go about the objective is different and how to play the map is different.

 

The flawed logic comes in when you believe that styles should be balanced over maps. The problem is that a game like hypergate, THAT IS THE ONLY MAP for that style. That gets infinitely more stale then having several maps rotating for the same style. Meanwhile, if you happen to like Vandin or OG huttball, what is being suggested is that you see that map once every 21 matches or so, which is bull to say the least. At least with the current set up, each map is rotated through roughly every 9 games or so, given RNG.

 

 

Please use some better logic next time. The same style on a different map is still a different game.

 

By the way, you complain about getting huttball all the time, I'm 99% sure I'm getting novare coast much more than any other map. Will start to get a sample size.

 

EDIT: First day of games as follows:

 

Odessen: 2

VoidStar: 1

Hypergate: 1

Novare: 3

Yavin: 2

Civil War: 2

Vandin: 1

Quesh: 1

Huttball: 1

Arena: 3

 

Seems pretty balanced so far. Vandin was the last map to remain at zero before it finally popped in second to final match.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Talinis

[varietasplus]

The difference is, HB was only 1/5 and not 1/3 of all the maps.

 

I know that Civil War, Yavin and to a lesser extent, Nova Coast, are all the same type of map, but they are also combat focused and balanced around combat vs objectives, those two goals are much more balanced. Unlike Hutt Ball which is heavily focus on objectives.

 

On the contrary. A combat focused player should be shooting sparkles in the sky when hutball pops. Depending on skill level, they are harassing random players in the middle of nowhere, attacking the ball carrier, everything at mid or an opportunistic enemy player waiting for a pass. Sure, they don't give a damn about the ball (most don't even notice they have it or it is spawn a few meters away from them at mid), but indirectly they are contributing.

 

So, combat focused players have no reason to dislike HB. They have enemies to kill everywhere they look and they usually not get globalled either (as opposed to at a turret), for they are not carrying the ball. You know who gets to dislike HB? The playerbase that is there for objectives and gets no support (guard, heal, someone to pass, mezz chasers, etc.), because the team is full of combat focused players.

 

I believe Bioware should do an offical public viewed (for transparency) survey or poll of subscribers (so Bioware have control over troll votes) and find out how people rate the invidual maps from 1-9. Then they should rate the map types from 1-5.

Then Bioware and us can see what maps and types of maps people prefer.

When that’s been determined, then Bioware will have a better idea of what players want.

 

Again, this is a bad idea. First of all, the poll is unlikely to be representative. Second, it is overcomplicated. If players are allowed to opt-out from 2 or 3 warzones, that gives a misunderstandable answer from the entire PVP player base.

Edited March 21, 2019 by varietasplus

[varietasplus]

I also like Hutt Ball because every class is viable and isn’t left to guard.

 

That is a tactical mistake. If you have no one there to guard all the time (stealth is at advantage again), then you are vulnerable to quick counterattacks and enemy stealthers waiting for the pass at your goal line.

 

More People want to death match, it’s as simple as that, but Bioware keep making maps that lean more towards objectives than fighting.

 

Bioware is right to lean more towards objectives, that brings diversity into the game. Combat should be just a means to an end, not the sole or primary reason. Again, separate regular arenas from warzones. You want pure fight (and not ready for SR/TR yet), you queue for the former only, problem solved. Objective orientated players will be happy that those players are gone from warzones.

 

So now we have 4 out of 9 pvp maps being more objective based than fighting and adding that last HB was the last straw for many combat driven players. IMO, 3 HB maps is too much, even for someone who loves HB. It only makes sense to have 3 HB maps if you also have a HB league to go along with it (which would be awesome).

 

The complexity of objectives on a map has nothing to do with the sheer ammount of combat. Even Odessen Battle Grounds includes combat till the end, for you have to take away mods or control points from the enemy or protect your own. Hutball provides a plethora of enemies to kill at hand, what is more, they might be an easier prey in general if they try to focus objectives instead of starting to duel with a combat focused player.

 

You don't seem to get support in your relentless effort to achieve your goal in this matter, because the reasoning behind it is simply not good enough, as others have pointed it out from different point of views.

Edited March 21, 2019 by varietasplus

[TrixxieTriss]

We’ll have to agree to disagreee because while you and I might like objective pvp, not everyone does. That should be extremely apparent when playing lvl 70 regs. Most players don’t even try to win by playing the objectives. If there aren’t 2-3 people on your team who are willing to try, then it’s a 90% chance you are going to lose.

 

Bioware need to accomodate the majority of players still left. Not the minority. This is something Bioware have been failing at for many years and it’s why we have less players now.

If all anyone wants to do is death match, adding more objective maps or pushing them more than combat maps will only make people miserable.

 

Again, this is a bad idea. First of all, the poll is unlikely to be representative. Second, it is overcomplicated. If players are allowed to opt-out from 2 or 3 warzones, that gives a misunderstandable answer from the entire PVP player base.

 

Bioware should do a survey of what maps people like and what “types” of maps people prefer. It’s a rather simple way to see what the majority like.

They only need to ask 2 questions. What maps do you like. What type of maps do you prefer. Then give people the option to just tick one or list them in preference of 1-9 (specific maps) and 1-5 (map type).

They did a poll for arena (even if the sample was small) and they should do it for 8v8 too. They could take it one step further and promote the survey on social media, get influencers to promote and ask some streamers to promote and even put it on the load screen as it should only be for people who are logged in and not a free for all on social media.

Edited March 22, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[Talinis]

I think what is most entertaining about this whole thing is the ignorant notion that huttball is more objective focused than any other map. Huttball has extreme amounts of combat as you try to prevent the ball carrier from getting to the goal and for others to keep him alive. And it is very possible to solo score in huttball, I have many times. You don't necessarily need more than 2 people playing the objective in huttball.

 

Then you have Yavin, Novare, Civil War, Void star, hypergate and odessen where someone or more than someone has to sit on the objective to guard it. Sometimes, no one comes to that point half the match so you sit there twiddling your thumbs. Meanwhile, most of the players just mash south in novare coast or the middle in hypergate and the middle turret in both yavin and civil war, no different then those that sit in the middle in huttball. Voidstar routinely has players that don't call out sides and let enemy bomb their way in. Others have people not defend a turret and lose their team the match, no different than huttball.

 

Once again, I think a personal bias is showing because you are unable to see things in a level and even light. These are reg matches. There is no ranking if you lose. Most of the time you don't even get extra conquest if you win; you just get a few more unassembled and command xp. Big whoopdy do. If you want to play the objective, then play it. Otherwise just mash middle like in every single reg map ever. And every map should have an equal opportunity to pop.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Talinis

[Zerileth]

Please use some better logic next time. The same style on a different map is still a different game.

 

I'm 99% sure I'm getting novare coast much more than any other map.

 

.

 

Nice. Throw out your "Logic" then slap down opinion with a tiny sample. Subjective is SUBJECTIVE. Huttball is garbage. Go check my threads and my "OBJECTIVE" samples.

 

Once again, I think a personal bias is showing because you are unable to see things in a level and even light.

 

Nice touch of spewing your opinion as fact. Still subjective opinion that "you are unable to see things in a level and even light." That's simply your opinion too. Are you Andraea (what was his name?) come back from the dead?

 

Meanwhile, if you happen to like Vandin or OG huttball, what is being suggested is that you see that map once every 21 matches or so, which is bull to say the least. At least with the current set up, each map is rotated through roughly every 9 games or so, given RNG.

 

I still think it's weighted. BW certainly will never tell. It was their last PVP map. Regardless, HB is different than any other map. Love it/hate it, it's not like the other maps. Why is there not a lot of "Odessen" map hate threads? Novare Coast hate threads? Huttball is not a good pvp map (opinion granted). There's FAR more HB hate threads than any other map. If they deleted all HB maps in pvp, PVP would continue to thrive. If the deleted all non HB maps, it would be........ well, GSF.... (crickets).

 

(GSF folks are swarming!)

Edited March 24, 2019 by Zerileth

[alexzk]

We’ll have to agree to disagreee because while you and I might like objective pvp, not everyone does. That should be extremely apparent when playing lvl 70 regs. Most players don’t even try to win by playing the objectives. If there aren’t 2-3 people on your team who are willing to try, then it’s a 90% chance you are going to lose.

 

Bioware need to accomodate the majority of players still left. Not the minority. This is something Bioware have been failing at for many years and it’s why we have less players now.

If all anyone wants to do is death match, adding more objective maps or pushing them more than combat maps will only make people miserable.

 

 

 

Bioware should do a survey of what maps people like and what “types” of maps people prefer. It’s a rather simple way to see what the majority like.

They only need to ask 2 questions. What maps do you like. What type of maps do you prefer. Then give people the option to just tick one or list them in preference of 1-9 (specific maps) and 1-5 (map type).

They did a poll for arena (even if the sample was small) and they should do it for 8v8 too. They could take it one step further and promote the survey on social media, get influencers to promote and ask some streamers to promote and even put it on the load screen as it should only be for people who are logged in and not a free for all on social media.

 

That's how our Earth going down to hell - simpler content wins everywhere, we will not wait 500 years predicted into "Idiocracy" movie, that will happen at most during next 100.

[LD_Little_Dragon]

I still think it's weighted. BW certainly will never tell. It was their last PVP map. Regardless, HB is different than any other map. Love it/hate it, it's not like the other maps. Why is there not a lot of "Odessen" map hate threads? Novare Coast hate threads? Huttball is not a good pvp map (opinion granted). There's FAR more HB hate threads than any other map. If they deleted all HB maps in pvp, PVP would continue to thrive. If the deleted all non HB maps, it would be........ well, GSF.... (crickets).

 

(GSF folks are swarming!)

 

There are more HB hate threads because huttball both pops more often, and has more people leaving it before and after it starts which means solo players backfill into huttball a lot. Backfills are rarely fun.

 

Huttball is a fun map, but only if the players realize the numbers on the scoreboard at the end of the match are meaningless; although that can be said for all the warzones.

Edited March 24, 2019 by LD_Little_Dragon

[olagatonjedi]

There are many possible variables as to why someone woupd hate something, and its not limited to just the map (a constant variable) or the type of game (also a constant variable). Player skill or knowledge or class advantage all play a big part in whether more people take part in something. This is evident all throughout the game and life in general. People disliking HB more than likely has to do with something other than the map or objectives.