Should The Influencers Get Preferential Treatment Over The Rest Of The Players?

[TrixxieTriss]

There's logic to this point, minus the little dig you put in about how people on the forums "rant and rave" and "act immature," all qualities/traits that even influencers have as people are people.

 

Anyway, I do agree that they do have more to lose if they come off poorly in the general forums whereas if they come off poorly in their private forums area only they and other influencers see it.

 

That being said, an immature/ranting influencer most likely would have shown this side of himself/herself on their stream/podcast etc., so chances of them losing emotional control of themselves on the regular forums is highly unlikely.

 

I honestly think it would help not only them and their brand but the community if they were more interactive with players here. They would pick up fans, and we would have influencers in direct conversation with us on the forums. How is that a bad thing?

 

By keeping to a secret forum it comes off as if they are above posting on the regular forums or even worse as if they really have something to hide. We as people only hide things when we don't want someone to see it, right?

 

It's nice to know but truly irrelevant that influencers have little impact on game design changes... However despite there being a chance they could fumble and write something that comes off poorly to readers costing them personal followers and/or fans or harming their brand I believe the majority of this community would really appreciate them using this open platform to communicate with not only BW but the non-influencing fans too.

 

I wouldn't expect them to never use their personal Influencer Forum section, I am just saying popping in occasionally (or frequently!) would be nice in the PVP section, General section, etc., and would only build their brand not damage it.

 

 

 

TL;DR

 

I have never seen any influencers use the regular forums until a day ago when this topic came up. I think they are missing opportunities more than avoiding harm by not being more visible on this platform.

 

Honeslty, I didnt even know who half the influencers are. I know the obvous ones, but I’ve never heard of some of those who’ve replied or listed the names of others.

 

One would think that as influencers, part of their role would be on the official forums where they could even be another layer of communication to the dev team, a little like Owen is when we have a tech issue. It also wouldn’t hurt if they were given a tiny bit of moderation control, because let’s face it, the actual mods get it wrong way too often.

 

I’d also like to see them organising more community or social events through the official forums instead of us finding out stuff third hand after it’s actually happened.

How about actually giving them their own forums section that allows them to advertise and discuss things with the players knowing they are the influencers and not some random player.

 

There is so much more the influencers could be involved in through the official channels than there is now. Maybe if they were actually officially known on the website/forums, this thread would never have needed to be created to find out what’s, what.

Edited February 24, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[olagatonjedi]

If that were the only requirement for someone to become an influencer you'd see Dulfy, Snave, Hottie, and a plethora of other well-known players being influencers. I am pretty sure there's a lot more to it than those requirements. Kind of naive to think that's what it takes to become an influencer imo.

Obviously it appears there is more involved to becoming an influencer, possibly qualities the people you mentioned do not possess. It is also possible they declined to participate for a variety of reasons, if asked.

 

It's irrelevant if communication is active with Eric and the influencers, that has no impact on the communication between the playerbase/forums which is what players complain about. Players on the forums complain about the lack of communication and transparency shown to them. You are confusing two separate things into one.

You misunderstood. I was talking about communication between influencers and the public via the public forums.

 

I think you are mistaking influencers for game design consultants.

 

They are promoters, not part time BW game developers. Some have already explained their minimal impact on decisions made by BW regarding actual game development as you can see from their personal posts in this thread. As wise and intelligent as these influencers could be, I don't get the feeling any of them have this strong communication bond with Eric as you assume nor do they have sway over what the developers create.

 

Basically your entire premise that influencers have this strong control over BW's game development as well as them having these secretive esoteric meetings of boundless intellectual transference between themselves and Eric has been explained as nothing of the sort. This is more of a fantasy in your mind, my friend.

 

Like you, I too wish it were the case! Seeing that the influencers all enjoy different niches of the game, it would be like having representatives for specific departments of the game. For instance if Brian from The Bad Feeling Podcast was a PVPer, he could be our community PVP Representative. As it stands right now, it seems we have no one capable of swaying BW to do what any of us want, feedback simply seems to be ignored or tossed away no matter what source that feedback comes from.

 

Hopefully this helps clear up any confusion you had about influencers and their impact on Eric and BW!

One does not have to be employed or developers to offer feedback and ask questions. It appears you misunderstood again.

 

And how strong or light the communication is between Eric and the influencers compared to Eric and the public forums is irrelevant, because BW understands they have mulitple ways to acquire feedback and discuss anything related to the game, and have done so when they feel they need to.

 

And despite who the feedback comes from, the fact remains that BW will ultimately decide what changes are made, and those changes may integrate 0% of feedback, 1% or feedback, or all the way up to 100% of an idea. Again, you misunderstood the premise of my post.

[LadyAdmiral]

Hi I keep saying the named Snave, Hottie and Dulfy come up and mentioning that they are not in the program.

 

• Snave has mentioned he is ineligible due to a strike, but he is still given support by the developers in the form of interviews
  
• HOTTIE WAS AN INFLUENCER! She was accepted in the program and everything. She is no longer playing the game though and left quietly. She left behind a ton of great guides for us.
  
• Dulfy is clearly a great example of someone who creates content and is probably the most well-known creator in the game. I think it's safe to assume she is not in the program either because she is ineligible, or she declined, and she has decided to keep the exact reason to herself, which is more than fair.
  

[TrixxieTriss]

Hi I keep saying the named Snave, Hottie and Dulfy come up and mentioning that they are not in the program.

 

• Snave has mentioned he is ineligible due to a strike, but he is still given support by the developers in the form of interviews
  
• HOTTIE WAS AN INFLUENCER! She was accepted in the program and everything. She is no longer playing the game though and left quietly. She left behind a ton of great guides for us.
  
• Dulfy is clearly a great example of someone who creates content and is probably the most well-known creator in the game. I think it's safe to assume she is not in the program either because she is ineligible, or she declined, and she has decided to keep the exact reason to herself, which is more than fair.
  

 

Please dont think this is personal attack on you or Brian or Vulk. Everything you guys do is much appreciated by the wider community and I can’t imagine anyone would disagree that your contributions are fantastic.

 

Most of us do understand the reasons why Snave and probably Dulfy aren’t part of it, except maybe those reasons are a little extreme IMO. But, even if those restrictions prevent them from being BioWare endorsed public influencers, I feel there should be room in the system for BioWare to have NDAs with them so they have access to ideas and feed back the devs bounce of you guys.

 

They could easily be player endorsed representatives and not BioWare “picked” representatives. IMO, that would go down well with the players and would show BioWare are interested and care about what we actually think and our feedback.

Independent Player representatives are used in other games with some success (depending on the game and actual role/setup)

 

Part of the problem is the access and the perceived notion that influencers are just that, they are influencing BioWare decisions on the direction of the game because of the direct connections you guys have. The secrecy and lack there of communication and transparency from Bioware only help perpetuate this belief.

 

The core issue isn’t you guys (except that one podcaster I mentioned ), it’s the setup. It’s BioWare not communicating, it’s BioWare not asking the players directly (surveys, polls, etc) or if they occasionally do ask for feedback, they aren’t acting on it correctly. Most of this is frustration at BioWare and you guys have inadvertently been pulled into it because we hear about a secret forum and people are desperate to know why Bioware keep ignoring us and continue to make the same dumb mistakes, over and over. 1+? = ? And we get threads like this.

 

There has been one big positive from the creation of this thread. It brought Musco to the forums to post and even make another thread about feed back (wether that amounts to anymore real communication is yet to be seen). I believe a large part of that has to do with you guys being involved and having that inside track or exposure, otherwise he wouldn’t have posted anything. The other positive was getting you guys to interact more directly with the regular forum (not so much you because you already do that). I think this is something we would all like to see more of from your fellow influencers.

 

At this point, anything that players can do to get Musco and BioWare communicating seems to be a plus for the players who are starved for communication. Wether the topics are controversial or not, it doesn’t seem to matter anymore. A starving man will eat or drink anything out of desperatation.

Edited February 25, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[sharkfishman]

But you do have “some” influence over the direction (how ever much it is) because of your inside track. This is the problem with the system because each players feedback “should” carry the same weight. At the moment, BioWare can and probably do see your feedback as meaning more because you guys get feed back from players and can present a proposition based on what the majority of your listeners are saying to you.

 

I don’t begrudge you for that because that’s not your fault. The fault is BioWare should be getting this data directly from the players through surveys or polls on official swtor” forums, login screens, in game mail or email. But none of that happens because they are too lazy (or worse, possibly arrogant) to find out what the players actually want. Instead, your limited influence carries more weight than it should.

 

A =/= B

 

What makes you think that SWTOR devs can't obtain feedback from the forums and influencers?

 

SWTOR is far from the only game that has a "community council" or "influencers." This selection doesn't mean that the opinion of the masses is ignored. It simply means that:

 

A. The devs decided to promote SWTOR's brand image by ensuring it has a positive effect on their target audience (and the people who communicate directly with that target audience).

 

B. The devs may feel in sync with the way of expressing themselves, "vision of the game" or past posts of said player, and find the feedback of this player especially useful/well expressed/balanced. They have this right, since ultimately it's their road to chart.

 

A large part of "feedback" on these forums (while valuable and intense) is simply grumbling about what's wrong. But how many posts do they really need to read about the exact same complaint? I'm not criticizing your posts of course, just speaking generally.

 

Positive feedback that's acted on or at least considered usually consists of 1. a clear indication of exactly what's wrong or what the problem is, 2. specific suggestions on ways to alleviate the issue, 3. a point of view that recognizes both player wants and the company's need for continued profits.

 

So, should every post have the same weight? No. High-quality posts that meet the above criteria should, and hopefully are, however, regardless of who it comes from.

[LadyAdmiral]

The other positive was getting you guys to interact more directly with the regular forum (not so much you because you already do that). I think this is something we would all like to see more of from your fellow influencers.

 

Unfortunately since the forums were built pre-2008, although i enjoyed them at the launch of the game, they are not in a format I enjoy, and I know I'm not the only one. I mostly look for guides and news here

 

I noticed many of the influencers like the twitter format - the invitation goes both ways, you're welcome to join the discussion there as well. Easiest way is to follow people who you want to see what they have to say, here's a big list of SWTOR players I follow https://twitter.com/swtorista/following pick the ones you like there and add your own too. But of course, twitter is a very different format, and lots of people don't like it too.

[TrixxieTriss]

A =/= B

 

What makes you think that SWTOR devs can't obtain feedback from the forums and influencers?

 

SWTOR is far from the only game that has a "community council" or "influencers." This selection doesn't mean that the opinion of the masses is ignored. It simply means that:

 

A. The devs decided to promote SWTOR's brand image by ensuring it has a positive effect on their target audience (and the people who communicate directly with that target audience).

 

B. The devs may feel in sync with the way of expressing themselves, "vision of the game" or past posts of said player, and find the feedback of this player especially useful/well expressed/balanced. They have this right, since ultimately it's their road to chart.

 

A large part of "feedback" on these forums (while valuable and intense) is simply grumbling about what's wrong. But how many posts do they really need to read about the exact same complaint? I'm not criticizing your posts of course, just speaking generally.

 

Positive feedback that's acted on or at least considered usually consists of 1. a clear indication of exactly what's wrong or what the problem is, 2. specific suggestions on ways to alleviate the issue, 3. a point of view that recognizes both player wants and the company's need for continued profits.

 

So, should every post have the same weight? No. High-quality posts that meet the above criteria should, and hopefully are, however, regardless of who it comes from.

 

I don’t disagree with you on some of that.

 

There are some things though that have led to players grumbling more and more because the ledgitmate feed back, especially when it’s asked for is largely ignored. You also have BioWare not communicating and when they do, they are often vague, don’t express their intent properly or flat out don’t tell us their intent and ignore us when we ask what it is.

 

Of course it’s Biowares game and they can do what ever they want with it. But the players also feel invested in it and want it to succeed and be better than it is. It’s part of the reason many of us post ideas or start discussions because we are passionate about the game. Plus it’s Star Wars , of course people care if BioWare don’t do it justice.

 

Sadly, a lot of those discussions are derailed by a small minority of forum trolls who don’t want to discuss the topic properly, they just want to argue and pick apart people’s posts. Most of the time they will say the complete opposite of the majority of people and end up posting the most in a thread to derail the topic or to get their jollies off by upsetting people enough so they lash and and they can report them. You can be having a very robust discussion (not everyone agrees all the time) and these guys will hijack it and destroy any semblance of civil discussion.

 

This is when and where Musco should step in when the intent isn’t to provide feed back, but to derail the thread. They don’t need warnings or anything, he just needs to “be a community manager” and intervene to get the thread back on track. This is something the Mods can’t do because they aren’t invested in the game to understand the intent in the posts.

 

Being starved of communication and proper community management is why people become hypercritical and the longer it goes on, the worse it gets. Once apathy and anger set in, people just don’t care what they say anymore, they just want to sling mud.

 

Those of use who bring up ledgitmate concerns, provide ideas or solutions and provide valuable feedback, feel we are being ignored. There is so much right about this game, but there is so much wrong too, that positive feed back becomes harder to give when the wrongs aren’t adddressed and just ignored. It’s why die hard supporters are finally leaving. These are players who’ve always said they would stay till the servers shut down (they have always been ardent defenders of positivity, usually) and they aren’t teaving because the game’s becoming old or stale. It’s because of all the bad decisions BioWare are make to the game that makes it less fun. BioWare are ignoring our fun and us like we don’t matter.

 

I think people are ultimately angry at BioWare for destroying the games fun and because BioWare don’t understand they are doing it or they don’t care if they do. I’m pretty sure if this was not a SW game, people would be long gone and the game closed, Star Wars fans are some of the most loyal and passionate people, but when you trash the brand or the culture, they will come out swinging. That is something BioWare have always failed to understand with swtor.

 

Bioware had the golden goose of all possible IPs, but they’ve been starving it and beating the poor thing to get as many eggs from it before it dies. As those eggs get smaller and smaller, they beat the poor thing more and starve it to the edge of death before giving it a sip of water.

If they’d just fed, nurturered and encouraged the goose, the eggs would have been bigger and it would die of old age instead of disease and malnutrition.

Honeslty, it’s Star Wars, how on earth do you make such a fundamental mistake

Edited February 25, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

Unfortunately since the forums were built pre-2008, although i enjoyed them at the launch of the game, they are not in a format I enjoy, and I know I'm not the only one. I mostly look for guides and news here

 

I noticed many of the influencers like the twitter format - the invitation goes both ways, you're welcome to join the discussion there as well. Easiest way is to follow people who you want to see what they have to say, here's a big list of SWTOR players I follow https://twitter.com/swtorista/following pick the ones you like there and add your own too. But of course, twitter is a very different format, and lots of people don't like it too.

 

The thing is, most don’t even know who the influencers are or what they actually do, so how do they know who to follow?

The other problem with the twtter format is the advertising and non swtor related stuff that gets pushed through from all sources. Even ones you arent following.

I also have a problem with social media platforms like twitter and Facebook because of..... well you just need to look in the media to see why.

I have been using reddit more and more, but it has its own limitations that can make it hard to provide feed back or have proper discussions.

I still feel that the official forums of a game is the best place to discuss and interact with the community and developers, but I’m old fashion like that. I guess I’m officially old . I remember a time before mobile phones and social media, when you had dial up and discussion boards. “A more civilised weapon, for a more time”

[olagatonjedi]

Part of the problem is the access and the perceived notion that influencers are just that, they are influencing BioWare decisions on the direction of the game because of the direct connections you guys have. The secrecy and lack there of communication and transparency from Bioware only help perpetuate this belief.

I have not noticed any widespread perception of this. You have to actively seek out a reason to spite BW to perceive this as an issue.

 

The core issue isn’t you guys (except that one podcaster I mentioned ), it’s the setup. It’s BioWare not communicating, it’s BioWare not asking the players directly (surveys, polls, etc) or if they occasionally do ask for feedback, they aren’t acting on it correctly. Most of this is frustration at BioWare and you guys have inadvertently been pulled into it because we hear about a secret forum and people are desperate to know why Bioware keep ignoring us and continue to make the same dumb mistakes, over and over. 1+? = ? And we get threads like this.

Opinion, and not proven to be mass opinion.

[Batwer]

A =/= B

 

SWTOR is far from the only game that has a "community council" or "influencers." This selection doesn't mean that the opinion of the masses is ignored.

Jo, they also ignore us like that.

[Noerra]

My take on this:

 

While it is good they support their influencers it should be purely supporting them on what they do. Helping them with their content creating, giving codes, bringing them together on some forum to share their views about influencers stuff etc.

 

However, it is really bad if they look influencers as feedback about the game or even worse "bouncing ideas" about future of the game in their forums. Influencers are specialists on what they do: user content for the game. They are in no way specialists on what in general players like or not like any more than people on general forum.

 

If Bioware wants proper feedback they should reach wide range of playerbase via surveys, general forum discussions and such ways. If they don't want to bounce their ideas with everyone they should then rather hire some specialists on the area of gamer psychology, satisfaction and gamer types for that and bounce the ideas on them.

[sharkfishman]

Sadly, a lot of those discussions are derailed by a small minority of forum trolls who don’t want to discuss the topic properly, they just want to argue and pick apart people’s posts. Most of the time they will say the complete opposite of the majority of people and end up posting the most in a thread to derail the topic or to get their jollies off by upsetting people enough so they lash and and they can report them. You can be having a very robust discussion (not everyone agrees all the time) and these guys will hijack it and destroy any semblance of civil discussion.

 

This is when and where Musco should step in when the intent isn’t to provide feed back, but to derail the thread. They don’t need warnings or anything, he just needs to “be a community manager” and intervene to get the thread back on track. This is something the Mods can’t do because they aren’t invested in the game to understand the intent in the posts.

 

I totally agree with this.

 

Those of use who bring up ledgitmate concerns, provide ideas or solutions and provide valuable feedback, feel we are being ignored. There is so much right about this game, but there is so much wrong too, that positive feed back becomes harder to give when the wrongs aren’t adddressed and just ignored. It’s why die hard supporters are finally leaving. These are players who’ve always said they would stay till the servers shut down (they have always been ardent defenders of positivity, usually) and they aren’t teaving because the game’s becoming old or stale. It’s because of all the bad decisions BioWare are make to the game that makes it less fun. BioWare are ignoring our fun and us like we don’t matter.

 

When a company has to make tough financial decisions, silence is sometimes preferable than making a statement that people will be very angered by. Imagine if the financial situation is that simply, there will be no new content until September 2019. Do you think it's a good idea to announce, "Hey guys, we don't have the money to have anything new until September"?

 

I think people are ultimately angry at BioWare for destroying the games fun and because BioWare don’t understand they are doing it or they don’t care if they do. I’m pretty sure if this was not a SW game, people would be long gone and the game closed, Star Wars fans are some of the most loyal and passionate people, but when you trash the brand or the culture, they will come out swinging. That is something BioWare have always failed to understand with swtor.

 

Bioware had the golden goose of all possible IPs, but they’ve been starving it and beating the poor thing to get as many eggs from it before it dies. As those eggs get smaller and smaller, they beat the poor thing more and starve it to the edge of death before giving it a sip of water.

If they’d just fed, nurturered and encouraged the goose, the eggs would have been bigger and it would die of old age instead of disease and malnutrition.

Honeslty, it’s Star Wars, how on earth do you make such a fundamental mistake

 

Fans rarely look at things from a financial perspective. Unfortunately, investors don't usually see things the same.

 

"Why don't you guys invest massive amounts of money for a potential X result," is a common argument made by MMO players. That's not the way most businesses work, however. "If you would only listen to my idea, I know the game would be 1000 times better and people would flock to play it, and everyone who left would come back and rainbows and butterflies would appear!!!"

 

The lack of an answer doesn't mean the suggestion hasn't been heard. It's more likely that it has been heard and rejected for financial reasons. Useful feedback has to take into account the financial perspective, not just player POV (who are usually happy to receive all the content possible for the lowest price possible).

 

FWIW, I agree with the recent opposition to armorings, having PVE gear work in PVP, etc. But we honestly don't have any financial information about the size of the SWTOR team, their working budget, how the release of the Gods operation content was received, whether the forums represents the target audience or only a small portion, etc.

 

TLDR; sometimes a non-response is a response in itself. It's often a softer way of expressing things than saying "no." Especially when your audience is already irritated with you.

[Celise]

We agree completely, even beyond the Influencers, no group should be receiving more engagement or transparency then anyone else (outside of specific circumstances, like Closed PTS, etc). As I highlighted in the other thread, I think there is a misconception that since an Influencer forum exists that it is the place that we are spending all of our time and that is where game information is being shared, which isn't the case.

 

I know a lot of these concerns are coming from a place of frustration where many of you feel that there is a lack of information being shared or feedback not being taken by us often enough. I don't want to speak for the Influencers, but I can tell you they have been expressing the same concerns both privately, and in their content.

 

I started a new thread here to talk about our gathering of feedback, so please head there and weigh in. We have made strides the past year (especially around PTS) to improve this but there is always more we can do.

 

Thanks all.

 

-eric

 

With all respect Eric, but after years of this influencers programme being active and only recently has in come to light. lifting the lid on the programme is going to be the only way to know if what you are saying is completely accurate.

 

If it wasn't noticed by a select few recently and efforts made to get it out around the NDA by just acknowleding the existence of this programme and how much effect it potentially has, you wouldn't come out and mentioned it if it wasn't noticed, so that casts some uncertainty on the validity of your honesty.

 

All i'm looking for is a bit more clarification that this influencers programme hasn't lived up to its name over the last 7 years it might have been active for and certain comments might of by itself been damning enough to of swayed the development direction enough.

 

I'd hate to think after all this time that Ben Irving's GC wasn't in fact his idea, but someone elses with some signifcant tweaks, but the point being it is damning enough to prove where GC actually started. I hope you can provide more clarity and clear this up.

[olagatonjedi]

I'd hate to think after all this time that Ben Irving's GC wasn't in fact his idea, but someone elses with some signifcant tweaks, but the point being it is damning enough to prove where GC actually started. I hope you can provide more clarity and clear this up.

Im confused. Why would you hate to think it was someone elses idea? GC was a good thing, imo, and in many others opinions too. Your statement makes it sound more like you are seeking someone to throw hate at, rather than express remorse for holding Ben Irving in a negative light. Whether it was his idea or someone elses, i encourage you to show some restraint of your feelings towards other people who are making choices based on what they feel is going to benefit the game. Those decisions and ideas dont need to align with yours. Its ok to view success differently. Try to view things from someone elses perspective instead of being dead set on your own.

Edited February 25, 2019 by olagatonjedi

[Celise]

Im confused. Why would you hate to think it was someone elses idea? GC was a good thing, imo, and in many others opinions too. Your statement makes it sound more like you are seeking someone to throw hate at, rather than express remorse for holding Ben Irving in a negative light. Whether it was his idea or someone elses, i encourage you to show some restraint of your feelings towards other people who are making choices based on what they feel is going to benefit the game. Those decisions and ideas dont need to align with yours. Its ok to view success differently. Try to view things from someone elses perspective instead of being dead set on your own.

 

GC was a disaster and thousands left the game over it. Try again with obvious flamebait.

[FlameYOL]

With all respect Eric, but after years of this influencers programme being active and only recently has in come to light. lifting the lid on the programme is going to be the only way to know if what you are saying is completely accurate.

Bioware was actually very forthcoming about the Influencer Program when Ben Irving started, anybody who watched the Livestreams and kept up with the Forums knew what it was about, how to get in, etc. I'm sorry but this isn't a secret cabal that has been running for years. Unless you mean the Influencers' forums.

[olagatonjedi]

GC was a disaster and thousands left the game over it. Try again with obvious flamebait.

Id like to see your data and proof that people left just because of that, but maybe on another thread. I wont hold my breath waiting for data that doesnt exist though.

Edited February 25, 2019 by olagatonjedi

[Lhancelot]

I'd hate to think after all this time that Ben Irving's GC wasn't in fact his idea, but someone elses with some signifcant tweaks, but the point being it is damning enough to prove where GC actually started. I hope you can provide more clarity and clear this up.

 

If you take the influencers word as truthful, quite a few of them have explained they have no more sway than regular players do concerning the work done in the game. Eric himself even said so.

 

We can doubt the veracity of this, or take them for their word I mean there's no way to prove it one way or the other. I tend to take people for their word until they give me a reason to not believe them so I will believe they are being truthful.

 

Also we have to remember there are influencers who are fans of all different parts of the game. Some enjoy PVP, story-mode, PVE, etc. This means if one is dictating that GC be created, others probably have dictated other changes to the game relative to the content they enjoy most and I just don't think this is happening. I just find it hard to believe all the influencers are divvying up the game to be developed for their personal liking.

 

Some influencers have explained they have not been happy with many of the features that are still in the game now. Their unhappiness seems to have no power over the fate of said features.

 

I just think people are making a mountain out of a molehill regarding SWTOR influencers.

 

I too was a bit caught off-guard by the revelation that influencers existed and worked in the capacity they work in for SWTOR, but that's only because I never heard of this system. I was distrustful of the system too, but it seems like this is just part of how gaming companies do business now to promote their game.

 

If anything, I'd have to question the effectiveness or the use of influencers by BW, because in actuality I feel the game is promoted subpar. That's another discussion though.

[Rion_Starkiller]

Id like to see your data and proof that people left just because of that, but maybe on another thread. I wont hold my breath waiting for data that doesnt exist though.

 

Sadly, the devs disabled our means of viewing server populations and other various tools. This used to be how we tracked whether people were "leaving in droves" : http://mirror.torstatus.net/

 

Secondly, you can do a a quick forum search of "Galactic Command" in the forum search bar to view all of the negative threads about the original incarnation of Galactic Command.

 

Unfortunately, that's all the data/metrics we are allowed to see. So please forgive people if they post their opinions based on their personal experience.

 

I'd hate to think after all this time that Ben Irving's GC wasn't in fact his idea, but someone elses with some signifcant tweaks, but the point being it is damning enough to prove where GC actually started. I hope you can provide more clarity and clear this up.

 

In my opinion, this decision for GC loot boxes went much higher up than Ben Irving. Galactic Command came at a time when EA loot boxes were being implemented in EA's forthcoming games (EX: SW:BF2). But the actual implementation of Galactic Command and the loot tables probably belongs to Ben "RNG is exciting!™" Irving. But we will probably never truly know. Maybe old Ben Irving's Force Ghost still has a hand in this game.

Edited February 25, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[PiiTarr]

If you take the influencers word as truthful, quite a few of them have explained they have no more sway than regular players do concerning the work done in the game. Eric himself even said so.

 

Their posts on their private forum have greater visibility than those of regular players. It's a matter of scale... limited number of influencers = limited number of posts = greater chance of all their posts being read. On the regular forums we see some truly great posts buried amidst pages upon pages of posts (that often have strayed beyond the original intent of the thread). Do you truly believe the likelihood of such posts being noticed and read by BW is equal to the chances of the influencers' posts being read? So while they may not have any more sway than regular players do, they definitely have greater visibility when it comes to getting their ideas/suggestions/thoughts communicated.

[kodrac]

Their posts on their private forum have greater visibility than those of regular players. It's a matter of scale... limited number of influencers = limited number of posts = greater chance of all their posts being read. On the regular forums we see some truly great posts buried amidst pages upon pages of posts (that often have strayed beyond the original intent of the thread).

 

You can thank a certain shill that can't be named for that. That's exactly his intent when he litigates reply after reply. I see through it. I'm sure others do too, but no amount of reporting seems to get that through to anyone. Then he'll hide behind the report button when it's pointed out. This message will disappear in 5... 4...

Edited February 25, 2019 by kodrac

[sharkfishman]

If you take the influencers word as truthful, quite a few of them have explained they have no more sway than regular players do concerning the work done in the game. Eric himself even said so.

 

We can doubt the veracity of this, or take them for their word I mean there's no way to prove it one way or the other. I tend to take people for their word until they give me a reason to not believe them so I will believe they are being truthful.

 

Also we have to remember there are influencers who are fans of all different parts of the game. Some enjoy PVP, story-mode, PVE, etc. This means if one is dictating that GC be created, others probably have dictated other changes to the game relative to the content they enjoy most and I just don't think this is happening. I just find it hard to believe all the influencers are divvying up the game to be developed for their personal liking.

 

Some influencers have explained they have not been happy with many of the features that are still in the game now. Their unhappiness seems to have no power over the fate of said features.

 

I just think people are making a mountain out of a molehill regarding SWTOR influencers.

 

I too was a bit caught off-guard by the revelation that influencers existed and worked in the capacity they work in for SWTOR, but that's only because I never heard of this system. I was distrustful of the system too, but it seems like this is just part of how gaming companies do business now to promote their game.

 

If anything, I'd have to question the effectiveness or the use of influencers by BW, because in actuality I feel the game is promoted subpar. That's another discussion though.

 

I completely agree with you. People who are acting shocked have probably never read up on MMO dev teams. This is far from the only MMO to acquire feedback from several sources.

 

I mean, think of these common scenarios that happen in many MMOs:

 

1. The devs hire a small staff of 1 or 2 professional testers. These check content for bugs, state how game mechanics feel, etc. IMPORTANT: These people are not long-term SWTOR players. They are professional testers who the studio has hired on a temporary basis.

 

Common player reaction when discovering the above: "What in the world are YOU DOING LISTENING TO THESE NOOBS instead of a BETA PLAYER GOD LIKE ME?!!!"

 

2. The devs select a focus group of in-game players, make them sign NDAs so no one finds out who they are or what they've worked on.

 

Common player reaction when discovering the above: (if the player is a Beta players/veteran/minmaxer) "Why are you guys giving more weight to the elites?!!! They don't support the game!! Listening to elites is what is killing this game!!! You devs are a joke!!!" (if the player is a popular forum presence with a more casual focus) "What are you guys giving more weight to the casual players?! They don't even know how to use DCDs!! No wonder THIS GAME SUCKS!!!"

 

3. The devs make friends with players from PTS, even running content with them.

 

Common player reaction when discovering the above: "Man, if only the devs knew that X Player is a total joke, he smiles at them but then talks bad about them behind their back. He said in a YouTube video that the devs are a total joke. I can't believe they listen to that guy more than they listen to me!!!"

 

4. The devs make significant difficulty changes based on the feedback of a very small group of PTS players.

 

See # 2 Above

 

5. The devs give 80% weight to feedback in terms of money, and 20% in terms of player words. (obviously this is just a generalization, but IMO I believe it to be a pretty good estimation.)

 

Player reaction: "I can't believe the devs are making us go through this grindfest!!! I can't take this content drought!!! I mean, Hypercrates got cool gear, but we need content!!! I'm not spending another cent on this dying game!!!" (Next week, purchases $50 in cartel coins.)

 

In many issues, the devs may simply not desire player feedback at that moment in time. With others, they may find a good idea and run with it. With influencers, it's literally just a drop in the bucket. Do people really think the devs are going to say, "Hey, we're just about finished with this massive stats rework designed to push people towards subscribing even though we're not releasing much content, what do you think the players will think?" "They'll hate it." "OK, we'll just scrap the whole thing and lose tons of money then, thanks for the feedback."

[Lhancelot]

Their posts on their private forum have greater visibility than those of regular players. It's a matter of scale... limited number of influencers = limited number of posts = greater chance of all their posts being read. On the regular forums we see some truly great posts buried amidst pages upon pages of posts (that often have strayed beyond the original intent of the thread). Do you truly believe the likelihood of such posts being noticed and read by BW is equal to the chances of the influencers' posts being read? So while they may not have any more sway than regular players do, they definitely have greater visibility when it comes to getting their ideas/suggestions/thoughts communicated.

 

 

Yes, I believe even when buried by posts, a great thread can be read just as easily as the influencer's forum section and responded to.

 

Now, it might take some parsing but there's absolutely no reason why the community management team can't respond to player's concerns on the forums.

 

Again, this has nothing to do with the influencers, but everything to do with the failure to communicate by BW and their community management team.

 

Eric explained why he seldom responds to player's concerns on the forums, and it had nothing to do with people "burying" threads with excessive posts.

 

He explanation was he thought it made more sense to respond after he had substantive information or as he called it a "real update" before responding to threads/posts by the players.

 

As everyone has said, just acknowledging someone from BW read and understand the player's concerns would go a long way whether or not there is information on a real update available or not.

 

This failure to acknowledge/communicate has nothing to do with the influencers, I see no correlation between influencers and lack of communication by BW, none.

 

I mean if people want to focus on this and think that's why BW fails to communicate to players on the forums then they can, I just don't see the logic behind it.

 

Sometimes the cause of a problem is quite apparent and not so hard to find and in this case I think BW has simply dropped the ball in how they have chosen to communicate to the players.

 

Again, Eric explained himself and took the blame for it essentially with that explanation.

Edited February 25, 2019 by Lhancelot

[PiiTarr]

You arent incorrect. Unfortunately, the thoughtful posts are few and far between, and surrounded by other posts that only serve to muddy the waters by adding slanders towards BW or other posters who are offering a different, yet civil viewpoint and consideration.

 

You are the expert on the subject so I defer to you.

[Lhancelot]

You arent incorrect. Unfortunately, the thoughtful posts are few and far between, and surrounded by other posts that only serve to muddy the waters by adding slanders towards BW or other posters who are offering a different, yet civil viewpoint and consideration.

 

I am pretty sure Eric and BW are quite capable of reading forum posts/threads and differentiating what is a rant and what is logical reasoning. If I can read through a thread and stay focused on what is sensible and what is not, I am pretty sure professionals like Eric and his team can do it too.

 

Eric already explained why he has not responded to or acknowledged player's posts in the past, if you'd like I can quote it for you? As you see below, it has nothing to do with "muddying" up the waters in threads.

 

Acknowledgement in some cases is something I have always been hesitant about, if I don't have a real update to provide I have always shied away from just simple acknowledgement. Mainly because I don't want the forums to turn into a bunch of "we are aware" or "good feedback" when there may be a number of situations where I wont have a follow-up.

 

However, let's cross that bridge when we get to it. I think I need to abandon my own caution around acknowledging issues where I don't have larger updates. It is clear that a strong starting point is better awareness by all of you that we are in fact reading your feedback, aware of your bugs, etc. and that situation is where we are lacking.

Expect to see more yellow posts around the forums from myself and others (as I highlighted in my other post). And I don't doubt that you wouldn't do it, but call out when we are lacking.

 

I enlarged the parts where Eric took full responsibility and even admitted to where he could improve upon regarding how he communicated to the forums for your viewing pleasure.

 

Personally I think it was stand up for him to admit all that he did, and I hope their communication does indeed improve. Even some of the influencers mentioned in so many words that communication has been lacking for them, too.

Edited February 25, 2019 by Lhancelot