Self-defeating playerbase

[ApollosNight]

This is something I’ve noticed for a bit now, and I think it’s important enough to make a post about it. A bit of background first! I’m a casual gamer with a deep love for BioWare, Star Wars, and MMOs. I played WoW religiously for years until I got tired of the linear, no-choice story. When I got a computer strong enough to handle SWTOR, I jumped at the chance. I fell I love with my Inquisitor storyline, along with KOTFE/ET (yes, that makes me a horrible person with no taste, etc. etc.). I’m well aware that this game doesn’t receive the attention it used to. It hurts me to see that because I see so much potential in it. What hurts me even more, though, is the attitude of players. Specifially, the level of pure hatred for EA and BioWare, especially the devs of his game. I get that sometimes they do things we don’t like, but let’s get real: we are not mind readers. Isn’t it possible that they have their reasons for doing what they do? What happens now is the devs get hated on so much by the players that they get discouraged and work less on the game. Players complain and hate, and the circle repeats. Instead of calling the devs to change, maybe we as a gaming community should change first.

[Seterade]

you should be aware that this expansion has run on for 2 and a half years. thats a year and a half longer than any other. there is a reason for this and it is these reasons that the playerbase is so tired of biowares approach

[PorsaLindahl]

I think it's more disgust and disappointment than outright hatred, along with a lot of frustration from the players. Every time a major update, or expansion, is introduced, a plethora of bugs are also introduced. A lot of these bugs are caught by players on PTS (if they bother to test ahead of time), and the update is still pushed to live. Then the devs take too long to fix these bugs, if they get fixed at all.

 

In the meantime, people are stuck in their progressions, or what-not. Only to be told some BS from CS. Musco is just a tool that can only tell us what he's been told he can tell us. The dev(s) seem to lack the knowledge or experience with the game code to be able to fix things in an expedited manner, so Musco tells us they will "monitor" these situations.

 

They also have to contend with new players begging for stuff older players have. People crying for more content, then crying about that content because it doesn't meet their expectations.

 

As far as I'm concerned, there's too much monitoring and too little fixing. Especially at this time of year - they put out a major update/expansion and then go on vacation for weeks while the bugs run rampant. Again, it's not hatred. It's frustration, disappointment and disgust.

 

I'm going to bring up another game: GW2. They had a major update a few weeks ago and have already fixed (within a few days) bugs related to that update, which is the norm for them in most cases. I guess that's the difference between an experienced mmo dev team and a noob mmo dev team. But one would think that after 7 years (not including actual pre-launch development time) BW would have half a clue about their game.

 

Hell, they can't even be bothered to update the Community page. There's news on there that's been there for years. Sad, sad, sad.

[Lhancelot]

Instead of calling the devs to change, maybe we as a gaming community should change first.

 

No no no... I am not going to bend myself around a product just to make the company feel good. If they fail to put out quality material that I personally enjoy, then they lose my support AKA money/sub.

 

If others enjoy the content, that's fine too. Continue supporting the company by all means, and continue having fun on the game. I won't hold my tongue though regarding what I view as critical feedback whether others agree or not.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Lhancelot

[QuinlanSaathis]

If they fail to put out quality material that I personally enjoy, then they lose my support AKA money/sub.

 

Then why are you still here, still posting?

You have been complaining about the game for years...

[Lhancelot]

Then why are you still here, still posting?

You have been complaining about the game for years...

 

I compliment when they do good, and criticize when they do bad. I still have paid time to post from prepaying a lump sum if you must know and really care so much. Besides, forumquesting is far more fun than the game now, anyway.

[ZeroTypeR]

On the EA note, no, I do not like EA one bit, why? Their track record speaks for itself.

 

Bioware tho, which I also dislike but not as much as EA:

 

Frankly, their decisions haven't exactly been helpful to the playerbase over the past 2.5 years. Granted, I like the STORY from 5.10, but that's where the likes end.

 

Since 5.0 the playerbase has been put on a gearing treadmill, a very slow-painful grind. CXP was already a royal pain to have to put up with, still is really, but now one grind has simply been replaced with another, slightly less of a pain, but still an annoying grind.

 

So I ask, what has Bioware done that HASN'T grief ed the playerbase, in the last 1 - 2.5 years? And after that question: Do you really expect the playerbase to be happy-go-lucky under these circumstances?

Edited December 28, 2018 by ZeroTypeR

[Drenovade]

Players are raising their voices to all the AAA gaming companies because players don't like the direction the companies have gone and the situation they have led us to. The shape of the gaming industry has changed a lot in the last decade.

 

A lot of times the outrage is understandable, but yes, there are indeed plenty of loudmouths on the internet who just want to see a big company burn to ashes for the kicks.

 

Gamers are a highly reactive lot. There's a lot of factors that go into that, but I do believe that both players and gaming companies could do better to sustain the industry we've all come to be so connected with.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Drenovade

[QuinlanSaathis]

I compliment when they do good, and criticize when they do bad. I still have paid time to post from prepaying a lump sum if you must know and really care so much. Besides, forumquesting is far more fun than the game now, anyway.

 

I care because 90% of the Hypocrites stirring up this crap with their statements re-sub or are lying about the sub running out anyway because they are still here.

[ApollosNight]

I care because 90% of the Hypocrites stirring up this crap with their statements re-sub or are lying about the sub running out anyway because they are still here.

*Hands this man a cookie for that statement*

[Lhancelot]

I care because 90% of the Hypocrites stirring up this crap with their statements re-sub or are lying about the sub running out anyway because they are still here.

 

No worries, dropped sub and aint logged into the game for over 2 months now. Gonna dog their game until they fix it or my time runs out where I can no longer post. They have destroyed this game, and deserve all the criticism they get.

[MikeCobalt]

Frustration, Disappointment and for some Anger. People *Want to like this, "Star Wars", the richness of the Companions, The stories. All these are/were great, better then any others but almost from the start and more so now in a trend that grows with every month all of those items are further apart, the characters become more bland then before, bugs that most know will never be corrected. Content Droughts that last over a year.

People want to Like SWTOR. Its the original content that keeps many here today, more *Disparaging all the time. If people didn't Want to like it (Hope) they would have quit long ago. Hope that the next bit will be as *Great as the original SWTOR.

[annabethchase]

While your central premise sounds logical, many of us that still post remember everything Bioware has ever said and know the board consensus for every issue that's ever been discussed. It's not that hard to write out a 100 point list of where Bioware didn't follow the consensus of the player base and

a) they rarely explain at all

b) even rarer do they explain with enough depth to understand their decision

c) usually wind up with a smaller player base than before the change/patch/decision was made

[Batwer]

I will say it again. They were told in the PTS server that certain changes are crap. They did it anyway. If they had listened to the players and adjusted the system minimally, everything would be fine. Instead, they go away for a few weeks.

[Tourmaline]

Then why are you still here, still posting?

You have been complaining about the game for years...

 

This. Same kids complain for years while still playing. After this long it just sounds like whining. Sh&t or get off the pot (they mean that you should either act now or accept that you will never do something.)

[ShieldProtection]

There is a certain group of "players" in this game who came directly from Mass Effect 3, meaning they are haters, they will hate on Bioware no matter what they do, they are extremely hard to please and they claim themselves as "true bioware fans" which is a bad joke. They hated on ME3 ending so much that they sent even death threats to devs via twitter and on BioWare Social Network back in day, as a result, they closed their official BSN forums few years ago.

 

so they hate on SWTOR too and they wish to see BioWare shut down with EA, without even thinking there are NO any other star wars themed MMO games and without bioware they can get no new ME or DA games in future. They are short-sighted, blind, elitist people.

 

It is best to put them into ignore list in game, which is why we need bigger ignored list.

[Inspirals]

No worries, dropped sub and aint logged into the game for over 2 months now. Gonna dog their game until they fix it or my time runs out where I can no longer post. They have destroyed this game, and deserve all the criticism they get.

 

If I may be so bold as to ask, what is the exact date that your subscription runs out, and you will no longer be able to post on these forums?

[ExarSun]

Well, i see the little apologists are at full force telling players to get lost, screaming and what not. Forums are for expressing opinions, whether you like them or not, if that does not go well with someone, there is always the so popular nowadays "safe space" roflmao...meaning get off the forums and live in your bubble.

[LordDarrack]

This. Same kids complain for years while still playing. After this long it just sounds like whining. Sh&t or get off the pot (they mean that you should either act now or accept that you will never do something.)

 

That's right mate you just blindly go along and except what crap they sling at you until the point you no longer find it fun and then quit.

What good will that do?

We have a right to voice our opinions and tell them how messed up the game is now, seriously tell me how you think the new gearing system is remotely enjoyable? I dare you to convince me/us.

If we don't moan things will not change, they will take your money and laugh.

I've said before most folks that come here and take the time to hold the Devs accountable do it out of love for the game otherwise we would just pack our bags and leave.

 

Im still a sub, have been since day one, but at the moment I cannot find any incentive to log in, I will continue to sub until I see what their reaction is to the overwhelmingly negative feedback from 5.10, but for now they wont get any more money from me for CM stuff which I enjoy buying, instead im spending it in ESO.

 

As much as I love the game I wont be taken for a mug for much longer.

You can keep your head in the sand if you wish, I prefer to be vocal.

 

Be safe

[LordDarrack]

There is a certain group of "players" in this game who came directly from Mass Effect 3, meaning they are haters, they will hate on Bioware no matter what they do, they are extremely hard to please and they claim themselves as "true bioware fans" which is a bad joke. They hated on ME3 ending so much that they sent even death threats to devs via twitter and on BioWare Social Network back in day, as a result, they closed their official BSN forums few years ago.

 

so they hate on SWTOR too and they wish to see BioWare shut down with EA, without even thinking there are NO any other star wars themed MMO games and without bioware they can get no new ME or DA games in future. They are short-sighted, blind, elitist people.

 

It is best to put them into ignore list in game, which is why we need bigger ignored list.

 

Are you for real?

Never played ME3, my history is pure MMO, I helped develop the first text based MUD, I played EQ, EQ2, WOW, GW2, ESO and this, that's your lot.

I don't hate Bioware, I dislike game changing additions that ruin peoples enjoyment of the game.

If my car is serviced and it runs worse than it did before am I going to continue to drive it?

 

Be safe

[Threjyan]

This is something I’ve noticed for a bit now, and I think it’s important enough to make a post about it. A bit of background first! I’m a casual gamer with a deep love for BioWare, Star Wars, and MMOs. I played WoW religiously for years until I got tired of the linear, no-choice story. When I got a computer strong enough to handle SWTOR, I jumped at the chance. I fell I love with my Inquisitor storyline, along with KOTFE/ET (yes, that makes me a horrible person with no taste, etc. etc.). I’m well aware that this game doesn’t receive the attention it used to. It hurts me to see that because I see so much potential in it. What hurts me even more, though, is the attitude of players. Specifially, the level of pure hatred for EA and BioWare, especially the devs of his game. I get that sometimes they do things we don’t like, but let’s get real: we are not mind readers. Isn’t it possible that they have their reasons for doing what they do? What happens now is the devs get hated on so much by the players that they get discouraged and work less on the game. Players complain and hate, and the circle repeats. Instead of calling the devs to change, maybe we as a gaming community should change first.

 

you must be new around here.

[sauceemynx]

This is something I’ve noticed for a bit now, and I think it’s important enough to make a post about it. A bit of background first! I’m a casual gamer with a deep love for BioWare, Star Wars, and MMOs. I played WoW religiously for years until I got tired of the linear, no-choice story. When I got a computer strong enough to handle SWTOR, I jumped at the chance. I fell I love with my Inquisitor storyline, along with KOTFE/ET (yes, that makes me a horrible person with no taste, etc. etc.). I’m well aware that this game doesn’t receive the attention it used to. It hurts me to see that because I see so much potential in it. What hurts me even more, though, is the attitude of players. Specifially, the level of pure hatred for EA and BioWare, especially the devs of his game. I get that sometimes they do things we don’t like, but let’s get real: we are not mind readers. Isn’t it possible that they have their reasons for doing what they do? What happens now is the devs get hated on so much by the players that they get discouraged and work less on the game. Players complain and hate, and the circle repeats. Instead of calling the devs to change, maybe we as a gaming community should change first.

 

Unfortunately you'll always get a segment of the population who misconstrue the meaning of the phrase "constructive criticism" for something far more toxic. All you can really do is make whatever suggestions you want to make, like what you want to like, and then tune out the rest of the noise. It's not worth it to get into an argument with certain posters--they will forever see someone with anything even remotely positive to say as an apologist or a white knight. They aren't happy unless the sky is falling in on them, and, from their perspective anyway, they are never wrong. Just enjoy the game and take a break from the forums when necessary to preserve your mental health.

[KendraP]

I care because 90% of the Hypocrites stirring up this crap with their statements re-sub or are lying about the sub running out anyway because they are still here.

 

I paid for 3 months the day before 5.10 dropped. I'm not playing anymore but I still post in the hopes that they fix the issues I hsve been having in that time. Primarily their tendency to give big screw yous to their long term subscribers.

[AscendingSky]

This is something I’ve noticed for a bit now, and I think it’s important enough to make a post about it. A bit of background first! I’m a casual gamer with a deep love for BioWare, Star Wars, and MMOs. I played WoW religiously for years until I got tired of the linear, no-choice story. When I got a computer strong enough to handle SWTOR, I jumped at the chance. I fell I love with my Inquisitor storyline, along with KOTFE/ET (yes, that makes me a horrible person with no taste, etc. etc.). I’m well aware that this game doesn’t receive the attention it used to. It hurts me to see that because I see so much potential in it. What hurts me even more, though, is the attitude of players. Specifially, the level of pure hatred for EA and BioWare, especially the devs of his game. I get that sometimes they do things we don’t like, but let’s get real: we are not mind readers. Isn’t it possible that they have their reasons for doing what they do? What happens now is the devs get hated on so much by the players that they get discouraged and work less on the game. Players complain and hate, and the circle repeats. Instead of calling the devs to change, maybe we as a gaming community should change first.

 

The bolded above is some of the most ludicrous white knight nonsense I've seen on this forum. The SWTOR devs aren't running this game for free out of the kindness of their heart, with their only reward the potential goodwill of their players. We are paying EA money to receive a product. The developers, the customer service reps, the writers, the coders... they are all getting paid for what they do. It's their job, and we are paying them to do that job. They're only doing it TO GET PAID.

 

So don't try to sell this whole "We shouldn't criticize EA because if we make EA sad they won't make more game for us!" bantha crap. That's not how the real world works. EA doesn't make games to make people happy, they do it TO MAKE MONEY. They're a company, not a charity. We are their customers, not children getting presents from Santa Claus.

 

A company that rakes in billions upon billions every year does not need to have their delicate fee-fees protected against dissatisfied customers expressing said dissatisfaction on the forums the company provides specifically for that purpose. Our criticism of their product and their business practices isn't going to make the suits all burst into tears and decide to stop making games. So stop trying to act like this is the case in order to push people into not expressing their feelings and giving feedback. EA created SWTOR to make profit, and if they want to keep making that profit, it would be in their best interests to actually listen to the feedback of their customers for a change before they have another massive sub loss like we had with Galactic Command (their last "We'll ignore the feedback of our beta testers entirely and drop this awful broken crap on the player base, then eff off for the next 6 weeks" blunder).

Edited December 28, 2018 by AscendingSky

[PorsaLindahl]

I paid for 3 months the day before 5.10 dropped. I'm not playing anymore but I still post in the hopes that they fix the issues I hsve been having in that time. Primarily their tendency to give big screw yous to their long term subscribers.

 

Exactly. I had prepaid for 6 months prior to 5.8. I cancelled but was able to post for another 2 months. I had a few that attacked me because I was still taking time to post. Don't worry about them Lhancelot. They're just sad little people, with sad little minds, making poor attempts to discredit any opinion that go against theirs in hopes of making themselves look better.

 

The worst thing is they're not even on topic. All they're doing is harassing someone who has a legitimate right to post. Or maybe they are proving the point of the thread title.