Running list of reasons Bioware is completely Tone Deaf to our community with 5.10...

[TrixxieTriss]

And they delivered what neither sides wants, so......tone deaf is the perfect phrase.

 

Yep, not even a compromise between the two. Just something everyone hates.

[AshenK]

I'm curious about this as well. They spent quite some development time on GotM... when did they start... well, almost 2 years ago. And I would really like to know for HOW MANY players this content is actually of interest. They stated themselves in the past that raiders are a minority and NiM raiders are a minority of this minority. So... was that a good decision from a management perspective? I don't know as I don't know the metrics.

Bro Raiders are who make the game or break the game. And I'll give you a hint when Bioware stopped making raids with KoTFE? Raiders made sure that people knew how bad this game was.

[AlaricSevGirl]

Bro Raiders are who make the game or break the game. And I'll give you a hint when Bioware stopped making raids with KoTFE? Raiders made sure that people knew how bad this game was.

 

Total BS. Raiders always think they are the make or break people but what happened to Wildstar hardcore raids. That game failed because you can't cater to a minimum population. Raiders are a minimum population.

[DarthNillard]

Total BS. Raiders always think they are the make or break people but what happened to Wildstar hardcore raids. That game failed because you can't cater to a minimum population. Raiders are a minimum population.

 

You right...

[AlrikFassbauer]

[*]Complete wipe away the last 2 years of gear grinding where you could trade up with the old shell

 

Which is why these old shells have become super-rare.

[Xina_LA]

I don't believe they're being tone deaf.

I believe they have a community that can't agree on anything.

Half the community wants one thing, the other half doesn't.

 

That's true on a few issues, but there are also several issues where everyone seems to agree.

 

For example...

* Nobody wants more grind.

* We hate RND. Very random systems are bad.

* PVPers want a better way to filter out cheaters.

* The community wants more frequent communication.

* Players want more story content, especially class-specific scenes.

* We all hate it when they add yet more types of tokens or upgrade macguffins.

* Stronghold enthusiasts want a system upgrade, not just new (buggy) decos.

* Nobody likes having multiple different gearing systems, especially ones that don't carry over in an expansion.

* "Ninja" adding a new feature that wasn't in the public test server is always a terrible idea.

* It angers people when the devs add a feature nobody asked for (IE: Dynamic Mount Colors) instead of adding features that are very popular in the forums.

 

I'm probably missing a few things on this list, but you get the idea. This is just off the top of my head, having read casually through the forums over the last year.

 

BioWare could avoid angering players just by keeping in mind the few suggestions and complaints that have been universally agreed upon.

 

Perhaps instead of trying to do large system overhauls (like Galactic Command), they could concentrate for awhile on the "little wins", fixes and upgrades that would make players happy with little risk of controversy.

 

And of course, most importantly, nobody ever likes an upgrade or expansion that's full of bugs. I've read so many posts that say "wait until you get it right", there doesn't seem to be any debate on that issue. BioWare could stop shooting itself in the foot, here.

[Lhancelot]

That's true on a few issues, but there are also several issues where everyone seems to agree.

 

For example...

* Nobody wants more grind.

* We hate RND. Very random systems are bad.

* PVPers want a better way to filter out cheaters.

* The community wants more frequent communication.

* Players want more story content, especially class-specific scenes.

* We all hate it when they add yet more types of tokens or upgrade macguffins.

* Stronghold enthusiasts want a system upgrade, not just new (buggy) decos.

* Nobody likes having multiple different gearing systems, especially ones that don't carry over in an expansion.

* "Ninja" adding a new feature that wasn't in the public test server is always a terrible idea.

* It angers people when the devs add a feature nobody asked for (IE: Dynamic Mount Colors) instead of adding features that are very popular in the forums.

 

I'm probably missing a few things on this list, but you get the idea. This is just off the top of my head, having read casually through the forums over the last year.

 

BioWare could avoid angering players just by keeping in mind the few suggestions and complaints that have been universally agreed upon.

 

Perhaps instead of trying to do large system overhauls (like Galactic Command), they could concentrate for awhile on the "little wins", fixes and upgrades that would make players happy with little risk of controversy.

 

And of course, most importantly, nobody ever likes an upgrade or expansion that's full of bugs. I've read so many posts that say "wait until you get it right", there doesn't seem to be any debate on that issue. BioWare could stop shooting itself in the foot, here.

 

That's all of it in a nutshell. ^

 

BW and EA ought to copy this post and print it out, hand it to every person responsible for the direction this game has gone. It lists in concise detail all of the problems that have plagued this game since launch and after.

 

***On top of all of this, they layered the game on a crappy engine. Which is shocking. Seeing BW created WAR which was capable of running hundreds of players in open world combat, it surprised me when I found out this game, a newer game by BW got crushed by Ilum when it opened up mass world PVP. Why would they not have used a better engine??? Oh well.

[HuaRya]

Vote with your wallet - comments on the forums don't drive their metrics of success; activity, subscriptions and revenue drive those metrics.

 

I sub and play for a month here and there every year, but refuse to spend more than a month's subscription on any kind of regular basis given the small amount of content added, lower than average quality levels, and many design decisions I dislike.

 

And while some may rationalize continual investment in the game with 'I'm helping support the game and keeping it going', I don't consider EA to be a charity case and thus don't see any reason to invest in SWTOR if EA refuses to invest and resource at a level required to sustain a large healthy population.

 

As far as gods - too little, too late for me. My friends and I pretty much quit playing regularly years ago, and there just wasn't any way I or they were going to return for a 'lets release a boss ever couple of months' operation.

 

For me to return on an ongoing basis, I'd need to see a full expansion, with new open world planets, several flashpoints, and at least one full new operation available at launch, and ongoing patches over the expansion that add additional operations.

 

I'd even pay for such an expansion - I pay Blizzard $50 every few years for theirs, as well as buy the yearly chapter (expansion) updates in ESO.

 

A free expansion is worth about as much as it costs - that is nothing.

 

It is truly crazy isn't it. In most other game franchise we BUY the expansion and if we decide not to we still get to play the older content (un-nerfed) for free. This encourages a decent player base consistently playing and not walking away when their sub is up. At 9.99 a month for yearly subs they are making a killing. Even for those of us who return for 60 days at 29.99 they are still doing fantastic considering how little content they produce.

[Damask_Rose]

BioWare could avoid angering players just by keeping in mind the few suggestions and complaints that have been universally agreed upon.

 

Perhaps instead of trying to do large system overhauls (like Galactic Command), they could concentrate for awhile on the "little wins", fixes and upgrades that would make players happy with little risk of controversy.

 

And of course, most importantly, nobody ever likes an upgrade or expansion that's full of bugs. I've read so many posts that say "wait until you get it right", there doesn't seem to be any debate on that issue. BioWare could stop shooting itself in the foot, here.

 

Bioware would go a long way towards keeping me happy if they would just acknowledge ALL of the bugs, and not just a few cherry picked bugs, and give occasional updates on them. Reporting bugs feels like howling into a void and Bioware ignoring all of those bug reports makes it seem like they just don't care about the quality of their product. It makes for a very frustrating and alienating experience.

[olagatonjedi]

That's true on a few issues, but there are also several issues where everyone seems to agree.

 

For example...

* Nobody wants more grind.

* We hate RND. Very random systems are bad.

* PVPers want a better way to filter out cheaters.

* The community wants more frequent communication.

* Players want more story content, especially class-specific scenes.

* We all hate it when they add yet more types of tokens or upgrade macguffins.

* Stronghold enthusiasts want a system upgrade, not just new (buggy) decos.

* Nobody likes having multiple different gearing systems, especially ones that don't carry over in an expansion.

* "Ninja" adding a new feature that wasn't in the public test server is always a terrible idea.

* It angers people when the devs add a feature nobody asked for (IE: Dynamic Mount Colors) instead of adding features that are very popular in the forums.

 

I'm probably missing a few things on this list, but you get the idea. This is just off the top of my head, having read casually through the forums over the last year.

 

BioWare could avoid angering players just by keeping in mind the few suggestions and complaints that have been universally agreed upon.

 

Perhaps instead of trying to do large system overhauls (like Galactic Command), they could concentrate for awhile on the "little wins", fixes and upgrades that would make players happy with little risk of controversy.

 

And of course, most importantly, nobody ever likes an upgrade or expansion that's full of bugs. I've read so many posts that say "wait until you get it right", there doesn't seem to be any debate on that issue. BioWare could stop shooting itself in the foot, here.

Im not so sure everyone agrees with your list, and more than likely the majority of players (not to be mistaken for the majority of posters) are apathetic to most of your list. Everyone plays for different reasons, or a combination of different reasons - all of which have varting degrees of weight of importance.

 

Dont make the mistake of projecting your vision of the game as that of other players. It leads to poor assumptions about what is truly best for the game and the players.

[Xina_LA]

Im not so sure everyone agrees with your list, and more than likely the majority of players (not to be mistaken for the majority of posters) are apathetic to most of your list. Everyone plays for different reasons, or a combination of different reasons - all of which have varting degrees of weight of importance.

 

Dont make the mistake of projecting your vision of the game as that of other players. It leads to poor assumptions about what is truly best for the game and the players.

Instead of just crapping on my list, could you give constructive feedback, please?

Which items on that list do you feel are not of common interest? Which of them aren't popular?

Or more importantly, which ones, specifically, do you think many players do NOT want?

[Solo-Jo]

Vote with your wallet - comments on the forums don't drive their metrics of success; activity, subscriptions and revenue drive those metrics.

 

I sub and play for a month here and there every year, but refuse to spend more than a month's subscription on any kind of regular basis given the small amount of content added, lower than average quality levels, and many design decisions I dislike.

 

And while some may rationalize continual investment in the game with 'I'm helping support the game and keeping it going', I don't consider EA to be a charity case and thus don't see any reason to invest in SWTOR if EA refuses to invest and resource at a level required to sustain a large healthy population.

 

As far as gods - too little, too late for me. My friends and I pretty much quit playing regularly years ago, and there just wasn't any way I or they were going to return for a 'lets release a boss ever couple of months' operation.

 

For me to return on an ongoing basis, I'd need to see a full expansion, with new open world planets, several flashpoints, and at least one full new operation available at launch, and ongoing patches over the expansion that add additional operations.

 

I'd even pay for such an expansion - I pay Blizzard $50 every few years for theirs, as well as buy the yearly chapter (expansion) updates in ESO.

 

A free expansion is worth about as much as it costs - that is nothing.

Yep Pretty Much This, except with lots and lots of story content (solo player here dont care about ops etc..)

[olagatonjedi]

Instead of just crapping on my list, could you give constructive feedback, please?

Which items on that list do you feel are not of common interest? Which of them aren't popular?

Or more importantly, which ones, specifically, do you think many players do NOT want?

If i did, i would be making the same mistake.

[kodrac]

If i did, i would be making the same mistake.

 

In other words, you were only here to stir the pot, as usual. Not to contribute anything, also as usual.

[olagatonjedi]

In other words, you were only here to stir the pot, as usual. Not to contribute anything, also as usual.

Not at all. I made an observation about his post that i disagreed with and provided reasoning.

[Shayddow]

what I'd like them to do: (in no particular order).

Bear in mind this is MY list and is not everyone's, its just things that would make MY game more enjoyable.

 

Fix the Codex. If there are X amount of things that are supposed to be able to obtain on Y planet, Make it so.

 

And make a way for those who Don't have the codex BECAUSE it was broken be able to obtain it some other way

(for those codex entries that are only able to be "earned" by a 1 time quest.

 

Fix the elevators so they don't dismiss your companion in the Star Fortresses.

 

 

Let people go back and do stuff they missed out on- even if you have to buy it from the cartel market... i.e. to do the HK-55 chapter between KOTFE and KOTET.

 

 

Let us be able to "restore" a companion to life that we lost because someone decided "Let's kill off 2 popular Imperial companions by making you choose between them."

 

 

Let people ride their mounts in the senate and the citadel.

[Soljin]

Sounds like this games development direction is still pretty off the rails. That's a bummer. Star Wars is in bad shape between Disney dumping all over my childhood heroes and EA/Bioware intent on making this game...Well I never figured out what their goal was TBH.

 

I just subbed up for a month to run one of my characters through the new story content and will likely not make it through the gear trudge before unsub which is pretty funny given Star Wars should be an easy win for a full time sub from me... But not this game.

 

Grind is fine..But put in a good reason for it. Make the grind mean something not just gear so you can grind the next tier of gear. If you are lucky you will get to play for a bit before they release all new gear progression and you can start over? Seriously...It's pretty ridiculous.

 

By all accounts I should be full time subbed and crazy addicted to this game...but they have gone so wrong with it I cant manage more than a month of sub before I get straight bored and frustrated.

 

I have read nothing that makes me think this round will be any different. I will enjoy the new story (probably alot given the return to Jedi vs. Sith) then hit the gear grind and realize there is no reason to bother.

 

Add some depth to this game...its not hard to figure out. Go look at the most popular Indie titles and you will notice a trend... Deep class/skill systems with deep crafting systems.

 

For Example: Add mounts to any game...yes they are cool and people like them. Add saddles, blinders, saddle bags all of which add stat bonuses and cosmetic changes and people go off the rails nuts crafting and selling those items... They will spend a lot of time on just that... A lot of time.

 

Not in SWToR... Because of the CM. Even if they added a system of this type (something that would actually work with SWToR) and it was popular it would get phased out and put on the CM for real money.

 

It's EA. Look at how few Star Wars titles are out since they took over the Games IP... They can't figure out how to make the profit numbers they want so they cancel or sandbag all the SW's games...

 

This game will never see any significant investment...ever. My suggestion is sub for how ever long it takes to play the parts you like then unsub and check back later. Best way to make a statement but still get some SW love in your gaming.

 

Even if an EA SW's game comes out (I think there is still at least one in development) I have very little faith that it will have any depth or be worth the box price.

 

Any EA title including Bioware games I now wait until in depth reviews come across and the game has been out a month or so... Simply put I don't trust that EA can put out or maintain a decent game of any kind.

 

I'm hoping the Story I paid a sub for is decent... If not I will start a new character as I know I will enjoy the original class story lines...pretty much any of them.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Soljin

[Sarova]

That's true on a few issues, but there are also several issues where everyone seems to agree.

 

For example...

* Nobody wants more grind.

* We hate RND. Very random systems are bad.

* PVPers want a better way to filter out cheaters.

* The community wants more frequent communication.

* Players want more story content, especially class-specific scenes.

* We all hate it when they add yet more types of tokens or upgrade macguffins.

* Stronghold enthusiasts want a system upgrade, not just new (buggy) decos.

* Nobody likes having multiple different gearing systems, especially ones that don't carry over in an expansion.

* "Ninja" adding a new feature that wasn't in the public test server is always a terrible idea.

* It angers people when the devs add a feature nobody asked for (IE: Dynamic Mount Colors) instead of adding features that are very popular in the forums.

 

I'm probably missing a few things on this list, but you get the idea. This is just off the top of my head, having read casually through the forums over the last year.

 

I'm probably missing a few things on this list, but you get the idea. This is just off the top of my head, having read casually through the forums over the last year.

 

BioWare could avoid angering players just by keeping in mind the few suggestions and complaints that have been universally agreed upon.

 

Perhaps instead of trying to do large system overhauls (like Galactic Command), they could concentrate for awhile on the "little wins", fixes and upgrades that would make players happy with little risk of controversy.

 

And of course, most importantly, nobody ever likes an upgrade or expansion that's full of bugs. I've read so many posts that say "wait until you get it right", there doesn't seem to be any debate on that issue. BioWare could stop shooting itself in the foot, here.

All of the above from me. There are far too many unfixed bugs in the game that basically ruin the immersion (having Koth's asylum crew on the Greavestone two chapters before they should be there is one example, removiong Vector's human eyes from the scene where he reveals them is another).

 

upgrade macguffins

You win forum New Year with this!

Edited January 2, 2019 by Sarova

[Rion_Starkiller]

Ultimately, I don't think we would be having as many issues with the new gearing system if it coincided with a major 6.0 expansion and +5 levels. I think we would at least be more open minded about it. But when the devs add a new tier of gear for virtually no reason (NiM and Ossus), it makes it hard to swallow.

 

As for things I dislike about 5.10 gearing, one would be the slot-bound mods. The other would be the RNG factor of relics. The odds of me ever winning a Serendipity-doo or Focused Ret relic are incredibly low. I'm so tired of sweet baby RNGEsus crates. I really thought the players made that clear with Galactic Command and 5.0.

 

Other than that, I like Ossus. The rest of the gearing system is ok.

[Soljin]

That's true on a few issues, but there are also several issues where everyone seems to agree.

 

For example...

* Nobody wants more grind.

* We hate RND. Very random systems are bad.

* PVPers want a better way to filter out cheaters.

* The community wants more frequent communication.

* Players want more story content, especially class-specific scenes.

* We all hate it when they add yet more types of tokens or upgrade macguffins.

* Stronghold enthusiasts want a system upgrade, not just new (buggy) decos.

* Nobody likes having multiple different gearing systems, especially ones that don't carry over in an expansion.

* "Ninja" adding a new feature that wasn't in the public test server is always a terrible idea.

* It angers people when the devs add a feature nobody asked for (IE: Dynamic Mount Colors) instead of adding features that are very popular in the forums.

 

I'm probably missing a few things on this list, but you get the idea. This is just off the top of my head, having read casually through the forums over the last year.

 

BioWare could avoid angering players just by keeping in mind the few suggestions and complaints that have been universally agreed upon.

 

Perhaps instead of trying to do large system overhauls (like Galactic Command), they could concentrate for awhile on the "little wins", fixes and upgrades that would make players happy with little risk of controversy.

 

And of course, most importantly, nobody ever likes an upgrade or expansion that's full of bugs. I've read so many posts that say "wait until you get it right", there doesn't seem to be any debate on that issue. BioWare could stop shooting itself in the foot, here.

 

/Agree

[TrixxieTriss]

That's true on a few issues, but there are also several issues where everyone seems to agree.

 

For example...

* Nobody wants more grind.

* We hate RND. Very random systems are bad.

* PVPers want a better way to filter out cheaters.

* The community wants more frequent communication.

* Players want more story content, especially class-specific scenes.

* We all hate it when they add yet more types of tokens or upgrade macguffins.

* Stronghold enthusiasts want a system upgrade, not just new (buggy) decos.

* Nobody likes having multiple different gearing systems, especially ones that don't carry over in an expansion.

* "Ninja" adding a new feature that wasn't in the public test server is always a terrible idea.

* It angers people when the devs add a feature nobody asked for (IE: Dynamic Mount Colors) instead of adding features that are very popular in the forums.

 

I'm probably missing a few things on this list, but you get the idea. This is just off the top of my head, having read casually through the forums over the last year.

 

BioWare could avoid angering players just by keeping in mind the few suggestions and complaints that have been universally agreed upon.

 

Perhaps instead of trying to do large system overhauls (like Galactic Command), they could concentrate for awhile on the "little wins", fixes and upgrades that would make players happy with little risk of controversy.

 

And of course, most importantly, nobody ever likes an upgrade or expansion that's full of bugs. I've read so many posts that say "wait until you get it right", there doesn't seem to be any debate on that issue. BioWare could stop shooting itself in the foot, here.

 

+1 agreed

 

Plus.. if it’s not broken it doesn’t need fixing... Dont change or “fix things” that aren’t broken or asked to be changed

[Nightblazer]

I personally see nothing wrong with adding a feature that wasn't asked for like dynamic mount colors. Sometimes nest little features like that don't have to be asked for and just may not have been thought of by players. Small little additions here and there like that are perfectly fine.

[TrixxieTriss]

I personally see nothing wrong with adding a feature that wasn't asked for like dynamic mount colors. Sometimes nest little features like that don't have to be asked for and just may not have been thought of by players. Small little additions here and there like that are perfectly fine.

 

Not when they are ignoring bug fixes. They need to fix what’s broken before adding new things that could “potentially” break something else.

Edited January 5, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[fabsus]

hmm. i think i have a different opinion.

 

- grinding is a part of every mmo and so it is fine. but in my opionion it is a question of the intensity. and here i also would say, that this gone way to far. when they introduced the rng system, they had to roll back the first iteration to calm down the players. now this system is even worse.

so they didn't learned from it, or their plan is a time limited time extending phase to roll back again and hope for props for reacting on critics.

 

- gods mm was announced with announcing gods. with releasing the second boss for sm/vm, they also wanted to release the first one in mm. this was their communicated plan in the past. they did not released the mm and everything took way longer then they expected. but i understand and support the idea, that a mm should be done after releasing the complete operation, especialy for an operation like gods. so i don't really care about. this is just to make clear, that gods mm was not intended to be released later, but planned for a short delayed release.

 

- keeping the minority of mm operation players is not only to keep these subs, in my opinion. take a look on what these players are giving back to the community! of course many won't give back anything and some are really "special", but the ones who are giving something back are the ones who count. they won't do that anymore, if end game content dies at all. what about all the guides, for example? even with the guides you can find, the quality of gaming skills shrunk to the ground. so a clear yes to end content.

 

- and of course it was not only the operation. we got a new guild system with way more possibilies, like the custom games. be creative and use them for keeping your members in the guild. we got goals to reach even without running operations.

- what about ossus? we got a small teaser of the new story and of course it su** running it with the dozents of twinks. but we also got a deversified new daily area with ossus. two new world bosses that helps keeping ppl interested in groups. and the next boss is in the pipeline.

 

- also that rng is so bad, is not true at all. i mean yes...if it would be just rng, but it is not! rng now is just the additional casino feeling as a reward for playing. but if you want, you can clearly go for your gear by doing the tasks for the crystals.

- and the actual gearing system (excl. 252+) had some advantages, too. not compared to the highlighted vm operations, but to the time after these... there are more ppl willing to try out vm operations, having fun with it and wanting to go for mm. so for me it seems, that there are even more interested ppl for these modes available, than before. and there are still more groups startet in mm operations, to build up a group rdy to start with gods mm. so they did things right, too.

 

 

- i don't want to say with my statement, that there is no lack of content, compared to other games, but we also need to be fair towards bioware.

 

- i also think, that they are ruining all the good stuff they did, with the mistakes they did again.<

- and i also agree with many points you already said. but i also try to see the goods things and not just black and white, as it seems in some comments.

Edited January 3, 2019 by fabsus

[LordDarrack]

keeping the minority of mm operation players is not only to keep these subs, in my opinion. take a look on what these players are giving back to the community! of course many won't give back anything and some are really "special", but the ones who are giving something back are the ones who count. they won't do that anymore, if end game content dies at all. what about all the guides, for example? even with the guides you can find, the quality of gaming skills shrunk to the ground. so a clear yes to end content.

 

Er what exactly are these minority of players giving to us? bugger all mate, they effect my gaming life not a jot.

Keeping a small 1% happy will destroy the player base when 99% couldn't give a monkeys about top end content and just want to have fun.

 

Be safe