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Genuine Thanks, Dev Team, For "Jedi Under Siege"


RadiantVII

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I think that's fair enough. It is my sincere hope that the Alliance remains at least for those of us who want it, and that the devs put a stop to kill options for LIs, no matter how loudly some players bay for blood. It was a great storytelling device to place Theron in the role of faux traitor, but his kill option after Nathema opened the worst kind of Pandora's box; it put Lana, the only surviving members of the original triumvirate (if we include Koth), right in the crosshairs of those furious over Theron's fate. No one's calmed down since. The lesson devs must learn from this is that LI's are incredibly important to a lot of players and must be treated accordingly, or all hell will break loose. To me that means not killing Lana off, and in future making sure the other LIs receive their due.

 

As for the Alliance, I have to believe that a clever writer can find a compromise that won't totally alienate the pro- or anti-Alliance factions. They made a good start of it with JUS. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that six months or a year from now the forums won't be a howling tsunami of rage, at least not over these issues.

 

These are all great points. I wish people would have concentrated on brainstorming ways to include all LIs instead of continuing to try to cut other characters down, and I do hope that the devs will take what has happened with all of this as a lesson that they need to do things differently in the future. Unfortunately given the way things have gone, I can see them just deciding the LIs in general are too much trouble and wiping out all content with them rather than trying to be more inclusive.

 

I do think there are ways to branch the story to accommodate both those who wish to keep the Alliance and those who wish to atomize it - and I hope they will take them.

Edited by IoNonSoEVero
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These are all great points. I wish people would have concentrated on brainstorming ways to include all LIs instead of continuing to try to cut other characters down, and I do hope that the devs will take what has happened with all of this as a lesson that they need to do things differently in the future. Unfortunately given the way things have gone, I can see them just deciding the LIs in general are too much trouble and wiping out all content with them rather than trying to be more inclusive.

 

I do think there are ways to branch the story to accommodate both those who wish to keep the Alliance and those who wish to atomize it - and I hope they will take them.

 

I know what you're saying about companions...I just have to believe the devs are well aware that cutting our beloved companions out of future content would result in a firestorm of Biblical proportions. :D It really would push too many people out the door. Devs simply need to avoid making the same mistakes and all will be well (at least until we all find something else to complain about, ha ha).

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I think that's fair enough. It is my sincere hope that the Alliance remains at least for those of us who want it, and that the devs put a stop to kill options for LIs, no matter how loudly some players bay for blood. It was a great storytelling device to place Theron in the role of faux traitor, but his kill option after Nathema opened the worst kind of Pandora's box; it put Lana, the only surviving members of the original triumvirate (if we include Koth), right in the crosshairs of those furious over Theron's fate. No one's calmed down since. The lesson devs must learn from this is that LI's are incredibly important to a lot of players and must be treated accordingly, or all hell will break loose. To me that means not killing Lana off, and in future making sure the other LIs receive their due.

This is the main problem here. The traitor arc i actually enjoyed it on a Theronmancer, even if it was hard going through, but that kill / exile option was a very bad idea...

 

I don't hate Lana, but i hate that she's litteraly the only LI left to actually interact with.

As it is, the message i got from the last story update was : "You should totaly romance only Lana on all your characters because we'll only focus on her anyways..."

I'd not be as pissed at Lana getting 2 romance scenes if the begining of the 1st cutscene had been my character watching that sunset with their LI (they did not even need to move or say anything at all, just be there watching), when Lana comes in to talk to my character.

I'd not be as pissed if at the end of that story my character got even a short mail from their LI saying that they enjoyed watching that sunset and hope they'll be able to do it again soon.

 

I don't think that's too much to ask for, but that would already be a little something to make the whole thing less painfull on characters who are not romancing Lana, and she'd not be pretty much the only LI we see.

Edited by Goreshaga
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This is the main problem here. The traitor arc i actually enjoyed it on a Theronmancer, even if it was hard going through, but that kill / exile option was a very bad idea...

 

I don't hate Lana, but i hate that she's litteraly the only LI left to actually interact with.

As it is, the message i got from the last story update was : "You should totaly romance only Lana on all your characters because we'll only focus on her anyways..."

I'd not be as pissed at Lana getting 2 romance scenes if the begining of the 1st cutscene had been my character watching that sunset with their LI (they did not even need to move or say anything at all, just be there watching), when Lana comes in to talk to my character.

I'd not be as pissed if at the end of that story my character got even a short mail from their LI saying that they enjoyed watching that sunset and hope they'll be able to do it again soon.

 

I don't think that's too much to ask for, but that would already be a little something to make the whole thing less painfull on characters who are not romancing Lana, and she'd not be pretty much the only LI we see.

 

I get the frustration and I do think there should be more with all the LIs. But perhaps the more constructive and productive response, for those that wanted to see more characters or variety and weren't happy, would have been to create threads advocating for all the ways you'd like to see MORE of your LIs of choice, and giving more ideas, instead of cutting someone else's LI down or advocating that the devs burn it all and remove everyone. All that does is breed the same toxicity and resentment on both sides.

Edited by IoNonSoEVero
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I get the frustration and I do think there should be more with all the LIs. But perhaps the more constructive and productive response, for those that wanted to see more characters or variety and weren't happy, would have been to create threads advocating for all the ways you'd like to see MORE of your LIs of choice, and giving more ideas, instead of cutting someone else's LI down or advocating that the devs burn it all and remove everyone. All that does is breed the same toxicity and resentment on both sides.

Well, there's this one : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=957794

I think we both commented on it.

 

If they can find a way to give a bit more to every LI, that's perfectly fine by me, but, if they can't do that, then, i'm trully sorry for thinking like that but 1 LI should not get more screentime and attention than all the others put together.

 

And as i already said, i'm not asking for them to remove Lana, just to be able to interact with someone else from times to times, especially on Odessen considering i killed no one, so having nearly only Lana talking to my characters, really feels lonely, and the base feels pretty empty too.

If she wants to go on a 2 weeks vacation skiing on Alderaan, or diving on Manaan or going on the beach on Rishi and then come back in a great mood, that'd be perfect. Honnestly all i want is a little break with some time to talk to and have more than 3 lines from any other member of the Alliance who's not Lana on the base who should still be pretty crowded.

 

Even just seeing someone like Koth or anyone else in the background would already be an improvement.

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I simply play the story by the lore, my Sith characters pick mainly Dark Side options, my Jedi characters mainly Light Side. The non-forcies tend to have more variation, but the Smuggler and Trooper still end up at Light V and Imperial Agent and Bounty Hunter at Dark V. To me that's just how it's supposed to be according to the lore. Playing a LS Sith or DS Jedi would be incredibly cringy for me and completely break my immersion in the story.

 

Then you are missing out, especially with the LS Agent and almost as much the LS Sith Warrior.

 

Also, if you "follow the lore" on a Bounty Hunter, then one would ideally IMO follow the Bounty Hunter's Creed (which was mentioned as existing in KotOR 2 and in beta even this game's developers said that Mako was written with the Creed in mind... if you follow it, she will approve of every decision you make and not disapprove of any) and by doing so, your Bounty Hunter will hover at around Light III prior to the new Conquest thing giving you your choice of DS or LS on every quest completion.

Edited by AbsolutGrndZero
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My SW gave him a hard time on some of the conversation choices, but at the end told Malgus it was a solid victory and that it was good to fight alongside him. Dude was genuinely shocked and stumbled over his words. But Malgus did help her out in the battle, and I thought it would be better to leave him as...not a friend, but on more pleasant terms.

 

 

We are birds of a feather xD My SW acted EXACTLY the same as yours did, talking down to Malgus at first and being rude, even as far in as the assault on Gnost Durals position I was telling Malgus to try and keep up with me :p But I chose the same option to be gracious to him in the final cutscene and also loved how he seemed so taken aback by my compliments :D Of course, he reacts that way to that dialogue choice no matter WHAT way you treated him throughout the content, but oh well, it just felt especially fitting here.

 

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Then you are missing out, especially with the LS Agent and almost as much the LS Sith Warrior.

 

Also, if you "follow the lore" on a Bounty Hunter, then one would ideally IMO follow the Bounty Hunter's Creed (which was mentioned as existing in KotOR 2 and in beta even this game's developers said that Mako was written with the Creed in mind... if you follow it, she will approve of every decision you make and not disapprove of any) and by doing so, your Bounty Hunter will hover at around Light III prior to the new Conquest thing giving you your choice of DS or LS on every quest completion.

 

I mostly stick to DS playthroughs of Imp characters and lightside for Pubs too. But I did do a lightside Hunter, well not classic "lightside" but an honourable warrior kind of morality, loved that. Also did the DS smuggler which I enjoyed ok, but not as much as the lightside version.

 

Dark Jedi don't make much sense to me to motivate me to play them really, I just dont see why the Council wouldnt notice the clear darkness in you and stop giving you the biggest jobs in the galaxy :rolleyes:

 

I've flirted with doing a light Warrior a few times, but I always end up just being an honourable darksider because I love the Warrior darkside story too much lol. Its fun to play as darkside, but not a rage monster. You can still twist the Jedis words against them then and play with their heads towards the lightside choice before killing them anyways haha

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Then you are missing out, especially with the LS Agent and almost as much the LS Sith Warrior.

 

A LS Sith Warrior would be such a huge cringe-fest. The most powerful warrior in the Empire who even becomes the Emperor's Wrath is a secret Light Side user? *shivers* blegh, no thanks, I'd rather miss out than ruin the Warrior story for myself which I love playing as a Marr-like Dark Sider. An Imperial Agent going Light Side may seem a bit more believable but they'd still feel soft to me.

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I mostly stick to DS playthroughs of Imp characters and lightside for Pubs too. But I did do a lightside Hunter, well not classic "lightside" but an honourable warrior kind of morality, loved that. Also did the DS smuggler which I enjoyed ok, but not as much as the lightside version.

 

Dark Jedi don't make much sense to me to motivate me to play them really, I just dont see why the Council wouldnt notice the clear darkness in you and stop giving you the biggest jobs in the galaxy :rolleyes:

 

I've flirted with doing a light Warrior a few times, but I always end up just being an honourable darksider because I love the Warrior darkside story too much lol. Its fun to play as darkside, but not a rage monster. You can still twist the Jedis words against them then and play with their heads towards the lightside choice before killing them anyways haha

 

Yep, same here! Bounty Hunter actually can be played disregarding LS and DS choices and comes across much better if you simply adopt a personal code for your character and behave accordingly in the story. But since we get LS and DS points from everything we'll end up at Light V or Dark V anyway.

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Returning after a year or so I can barely move one toon through the story it's so dull. The Dev team is so lackluster about updating very basic things like the Community in the launcher is has only been updated as recently as May 2017, and the news September 2018.

 

Although I have a 700MB download my launcher is crawling to update. I often remain quiet but I saw this "THANKS" post and felt it was worth giving my 2 cents. Unlike other games you have to be a sub to post on these forums. This protects Bioware Austin and shields them from mountains of criticism they duly deserve for taking 15 dollars a month and doing very very little to earn it.

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Returning after a year or so I can barely move one toon through the story it's so dull. The Dev team is so lackluster about updating very basic things like the Community in the launcher is has only been updated as recently as May 2017, and the news September 2018.

 

Although I have a 700MB download my launcher is crawling to update. I often remain quiet but I saw this "THANKS" post and felt it was worth giving my 2 cents. Unlike other games you have to be a sub to post on these forums. This protects Bioware Austin and shields them from mountains of criticism they duly deserve for taking 15 dollars a month and doing very very little to earn it.

 

You do realise they can't release that much content because they have a very small team? You do realise the content trickle is because of EA siphoning off resources to projects like Anthem? Bioware isn't releasing content like ESO is because they don't want to, believe me they do want that, but the problem is that they can't. Their team is too small, their financial resources are limited and EA forces the company to work on other projects instead of focusing on the amazing things they already have.

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A LS Sith Warrior would be such a huge cringe-fest. The most powerful warrior in the Empire who even becomes the Emperor's Wrath is a secret Light Side user? *shivers* blegh, no thanks, I'd rather miss out than ruin the Warrior story for myself which I love playing as a Marr-like Dark Sider. An Imperial Agent going Light Side may seem a bit more believable but they'd still feel soft to me.

Couldn't agree more. You'd think the Emperor at least would be strong enough to sense the SW's doubt and non commitment to the dark and decide not to make you his wrath.

 

Yep, same here! Bounty Hunter actually can be played disregarding LS and DS choices and comes across much better if you simply adopt a personal code for your character and behave accordingly in the story. But since we get LS and DS points from everything we'll end up at Light V or Dark V anyway.

 

Yeah I just played my Hunter as Mandalorian first, Bounty Hunter second. So personal honour always came first. I liked to honour agreements, avoid betrayals and always kill worthy foes I defeat since Mandalorians consider it dishonourable not to. And I was always looking for the greatest challenge above all. Ended up killing Tormen at the end because I felt like it's what my character would have done, he force choked Mako! And there was no challenge in killing a defenceless old Chancellor. Tormen was a true test. Plus I figured it was good enough for him to know the Chancellor could have died by his hand easily if he'd chosen it. Even with this somewhat light playthrough though, I ended the story on Dark 3 lol. My hunter was still vicious when it was demanded after all haha.

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A LS Sith Warrior would be such a huge cringe-fest. The most powerful warrior in the Empire who even becomes the Emperor's Wrath is a secret Light Side user? *shivers* blegh, no thanks, I'd rather miss out than ruin the Warrior story for myself which I love playing as a Marr-like Dark Sider. An Imperial Agent going Light Side may seem a bit more believable but they'd still feel soft to me.

 

The entire story changes in the sense that you are trying to reform the Empire. It even coincides perfectly with Light Side Jaesa's storyline, she goes out to recruit Jedi to help bring about a better Empire. It really is well written and not a 'cringe-fest' at all.

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The entire story changes in the sense that you are trying to reform the Empire. It even coincides perfectly with Light Side Jaesa's storyline, she goes out to recruit Jedi to help bring about a better Empire. It really is well written and not a 'cringe-fest' at all.

 

I've watched a LS playthrough on YouTube. It's simply completely not my cup of tea, maybe because the idea that Sith are meant to be Dark Side is so heavily ingrained within me. Objectively viewed it may indeed be well-written, but let's just put it mildly and say that I didn't enjoy watching the LS Warrior playthrough. Tastes differ, don't they? :)

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I've watched a LS playthrough on YouTube. It's simply completely not my cup of tea, maybe because the idea that Sith are meant to be Dark Side is so heavily ingrained within me. Objectively viewed it may indeed be well-written, but let's just put it mildly and say that I didn't enjoy watching the LS Warrior playthrough. Tastes differ, don't they? :)

 

To give a different impression maybe (don't want to convice you to use light side options just as an explanation why people might use LS options as Sith) - just because you choose a light side option does not mean your Sith wants to become a Jedi or something like that. Example would be Darth Malgus who tried to reform the empire to make it stronger by allowing aliens in the ranks - you could see it as light side option too because he did not just kill everyone he encountered but instead was working to establish alliances.

 

The dark side option is normally the kill everyone option or being more egoistically (keeping power/assets for yourself or killing possible resources) while with the light side option it is more to support the empire by sparing valuable assets or keeping powerful items not for yourself but to give it to the empire for example.

 

I think there is even a class mission on Corellia where Darth Vowrawn asks you to spare a person that worked for Baras because he is such a valuable asset. Sparing him is the light side option but that does not mean that you are a weak Sith showing mercy but instead that you see him as a valuable asset. Or maybe your Sith has a code of honor that would prevent him/her from killing not worthy/weakly persons. If you are LS you get at the end of the SI story line the darth imperius title and I find this appropriate because the LS options are quite often to help the empire (although I prefer the Darth Nox title :) ).

 

It boils down on how you want to play your character. I personally like to choose more DS options with my Sith Inquisitor compared to my Sith Warrior because it seems to me choosing more DS options with my SW paints him/her more as psychotic kill everyone and everything but with my SI I don't get this impression. But if I want to play such a character I would use all DS options for example.

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To give a different impression maybe (don't want to convice you to use light side options just as an explanation why people might use LS options as Sith) - just because you choose a light side option does not mean your Sith wants to become a Jedi or something like that. Example would be Darth Malgus who tried to reform the empire to make it stronger by allowing aliens in the ranks - you could see it as light side option too because he did not just kill everyone he encountered but instead was working to establish alliances.

 

The dark side option is normally the kill everyone option or being more egoistically (keeping power/assets for yourself or killing possible resources) while with the light side option it is more to support the empire by sparing valuable assets or keeping powerful items not for yourself but to give it to the empire for example.

 

I think there is even a class mission on Corellia where Darth Vowrawn asks you to spare a person that worked for Baras because he is such a valuable asset. Sparing him is the light side option but that does not mean that you are a weak Sith showing mercy but instead that you see him as a valuable asset. Or maybe your Sith has a code of honor that would prevent him/her from killing not worthy/weakly persons. If you are LS you get at the end of the SI story line the darth imperius title and I find this appropriate because the LS options are quite often to help the empire (although I prefer the Darth Nox title :) ).

 

It boils down on how you want to play your character. I personally like to choose more DS options with my Sith Inquisitor compared to my Sith Warrior because it seems to me choosing more DS options with my SW paints him/her more as psychotic kill everyone and everything but with my SI I don't get this impression. But if I want to play such a character I would use all DS options for example.

 

Perhaps I do need to clarify that I agree with this a lot. When I think of a Light Side Sith I am not thinking of a Sith character that picks Light Side options in dialogue, but a Sith that actually follows the Light Side. On my Sith toons I can easily pick a LS option because it makes more sense to reflect the personality I had in mind for them.

 

For example, my Sith usually believe very fiercely in the Sith Empire and will work to strengthen it. On Nar Shaddaa you have that one mission on Impside where an Anomid infiltrates a Holonet datacenter and offers you loads of information if you let him live there. While it's a Light Side option, I still pick it, because more information like that strengthens the Empire and that's what my characters would want, even though they are devout followers of the Dark Side.

 

But that's something I have been saying for a long while: the LS and DS choices often don't make sense in regards to true alignment in the Force. The quest on Coruscant for example about the True Republic movement and the Senator that wants to break ties with the Jedi and establish and alliance with the Sith, why would stopping him be a Dark Side choice which it currently is?

 

So perhaps that clarifies my stance more, that I do not pick only DS options on Impside toons or only LS ones on Repside. Instead of reforming the Empire however, to continue your example, my characters tend to want to strengthen the current shape and form of the Sith Empire. But even though they may spare someone because it might benefit the Empire a whole, their alignment will still be heavily rooted in the Dark Side.

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Perhaps I do need to clarify that I agree with this a lot. When I think of a Light Side Sith I am not thinking of a Sith character that picks Light Side options in dialogue, but a Sith that actually follows the Light Side. On my Sith toons I can easily pick a LS option because it makes more sense to reflect the personality I had in mind for them.

 

For example, my Sith usually believe very fiercely in the Sith Empire and will work to strengthen it. On Nar Shaddaa you have that one mission on Impside where an Anomid infiltrates a Holonet datacenter and offers you loads of information if you let him live there. While it's a Light Side option, I still pick it, because more information like that strengthens the Empire and that's what my characters would want, even though they are devout followers of the Dark Side.

 

But that's something I have been saying for a long while: the LS and DS choices often don't make sense in regards to true alignment in the Force. The quest on Coruscant for example about the True Republic movement and the Senator that wants to break ties with the Jedi and establish and alliance with the Sith, why would stopping him be a Dark Side choice which it currently is?

 

So perhaps that clarifies my stance more, that I do not pick only DS options on Impside toons or only LS ones on Repside. Instead of reforming the Empire however, to continue your example, my characters tend to want to strengthen the current shape and form of the Sith Empire. But even though they may spare someone because it might benefit the Empire a whole, their alignment will still be heavily rooted in the Dark Side.

 

Agree 100%. One of the most bothersome light side choices in the SW story to me is keeping Jaesa light side. I just dont get why anyone in the Empire would want a light side former Jedi roaming free. For one, I kind of get the whole "reforming the Empire from within" narrative, but at the end of the day the Empire's ultimate goal has been and will ALWAYS be the destruction of the Jedi Order no matter how "reformed" they become, if Jaesa is going to be unwilling to openly fight them as a light sider, she will be useless to the Empire. Not to mention I dont know why Baras would ever want the risk of letting you keep a light sider who has power such as hers. I mean he tore the galaxy apart looking for her because she was such a threat but then he's willing to just trust that she'll behave? And then just doesn't seem to care about getting her after he plans to have our SW killed? Makes Baras seem quite the idiot

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Agree 100%. One of the most bothersome light side choices in the SW story to me is keeping Jaesa light side. I just dont get why anyone in the Empire would want a light side former Jedi roaming free.

Problem with DS Jaesa is that she fits only with the full on DS psycho SW, who picks only the DS choices every time.

 

My pragmatic, more neutral but still slightly DS SW would kill DS Jaesa right on Hutta rather than take her with her on her ship, because she'd see her as too much of a wild card and a liability rather than an asset.

So i'll try to see how it goes with LS Jaesa.

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Problem with DS Jaesa is that she fits only with the full on DS psycho SW, who picks only the DS choices every time.

 

My pragmatic, more neutral but still slightly DS SW would kill DS Jaesa right on Hutta rather than take her with her on her ship, because she'd see her as too much of a wild card and a liability rather than an asset.

So i'll try to see how it goes with LS Jaesa.

 

I do lament that killing her wasnt an option, but I dont mind DS Jaesa on my more neutral characters either, because I obviously dont HAVE to do what she likes me to do, and if she speaks up about anything I can tell her to shut up haha.

 

It's better than having Ashara on a super DS SI :rolleyes: 90% of my Inqs would have killed her as soon as I got what I needed from her, or at least would definitely have killed her when she refuses to fully embrace the dark side. Definitely should have been more of a Jaesa situation there imo, no idea why there wasn't. She just stays light side no matter what and it suuuuucks. DS Ashara would have been great. Then we didn't even get allowed to kill her when she returned! :mad:

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I do lament that killing her wasnt an option, but I dont mind DS Jaesa on my more neutral characters either, because I obviously dont HAVE to do what she likes me to do, and if she speaks up about anything I can tell her to shut up haha.

 

It's better than having Ashara on a super DS SI :rolleyes: 90% of my Inqs would have killed her as soon as I got what I needed from her, or at least would definitely have killed her when she refuses to fully embrace the dark side. Definitely should have been more of a Jaesa situation there imo, no idea why there wasn't. She just stays light side no matter what and it suuuuucks. DS Ashara would have been great. Then we didn't even get allowed to kill her when she returned! :mad:

Honnestly, my Nox would have, if he was in a good mood sent Ashara back to the Jedi as soon as he got Kalatosh's ghost, but considering she led him into a trap right before that, he'd probably have given her a quick death without a second thought.

Bue he'd never ever have taken her onboard if he really had a choice, she's just a waste of his time.

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There are huge negatives for this update, but on the positive side I have to say that 5 daily missions, 10 weekly missions ( and a whole host of them) is a great idea. - saves them getting boring and stale so quick. Also the Droid and Bug World bosses are also a good intro to Operations bosses - not too complex, but enough of a challenge for a pug group. - Seeing as a lot of people ( I'm guessing) don't have hours to spend ding an operation, or indeed learning all the mechanics. - Please BioWare more of this type of thing - and put it in Group-finder.

 

I like that there is lore to find, and Datacrons - some easy some not so easy. A few group ones would be great.

 

Not so keen on the story becoming the dailies, but this seems to be the format nowadays.

 

I personally like the chances for OW PvP. Got more kills on Ossus than I have in the rest of the world over the last year or so - unless its an organized event.

 

Some great visuals. Would like some more corners and stuff to explore. Some more random big-ish ( champ?) level mini-bosses. Some stuff to solo or group for. -

 

Really need a hub for all the dailies though instead of trunding around all the QT points. and really really need more mission slots. 25 is rather small if you offer lots for a planet, especially if you've got PvP, other dailies and such missions still open.

 

Gearing is so awful tho' - But that's being discussed in about 10 other threads already.

 

All in all 7/10 - just need another planet like that every 2-3 months, not just once a year.

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Honnestly, my Nox would have, if he was in a good mood sent Ashara back to the Jedi as soon as he got Kalatosh's ghost, but considering she led him into a trap right before that, he'd probably have given her a quick death without a second thought.

Bue he'd never ever have taken her onboard if he really had a choice, she's just a waste of his time.

Myself would have driven her completely insane and then sent her back to the Jedi. :eek::D

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