Genuine Thanks, Dev Team, For "Jedi Under Siege"

[Ylliarus]

@Ylliarus

I actually liked KotET and KotFE very much. It would be an awesome story for a single-player game, but not for MMO for sure: an "eternal commander" of the most powerful faction in the galaxy does a brute work with his own bare hands instead of sending troops? The second problem is that "outlander" has defeated the most powerful being in the galaxy and is such a Mary Sue, that it's really hard to imagine anyone challenging him at this point.

 

I've been frequently repeating it, but it simply rings with a lot of truth for me: had KotFE and KotET been a seperate game in the Star Wars universe that was completely detached from SWTOR and thus had been a single-player game on its own, I probably would have loved it. But it's horrible as a continuation of the class stories, RotHC and SoR, because to me it doesn't make any sense.

 

Also, to return briefly to what a previous poster said, about whether Charles Boyd could confirm whether indeed a lot of people wanted to return to Empire vs Republic, and he actually did confirm! He confirmed it here, in the Bad Feeling Podcast Buvette:

 

http://www.twitch.tv/badfeelingpodcast/v/348746660?sr=a&t=1328s

 

I forwarded it to the relevant part so I hope the link also puts everyone who clicks it on the right spot

[Pacram]

I can't state enough just how excited I was to experience Ossus and the new content during the PTS. The quality of the world is really what caught my eye, the return to datacrons, exploration and just so much more. Running across Ossus gave me serious Rise of The Hutt Cartel vibes. I have never been hugely against the previous two expansions, the story I believed was quite superb and resonating. Outside of the story there were some questionable decisions. I am very excited though to see these issues addressed and a focus on traditional base game quality. Keep up the good work BioWare, you've done a great job so far and I can't wait to see more

[Inspirals]

Naturally, a counterargument to what I just said is that it is all my personal findings and experiences, that Bioware didn't give a statement who is in the majority. But think about it: Bioware is returning to the Empire vs Republic narrative. That decision in itself is a statement from the dev team. Had the Zakuul/Alliance setting and story really been as popular as its proponents make it out to be, then that specific storyline would have been continued. However, what has happened? Bioware, going over the data they have which is a million times more than what we have and see, have decided it would be more profitable to return to the Empire vs Republic setting and narrative. As I said, that in itself is a statement that the amount of people who genuinely liked the setting KotFE and KotET created can't be that high as its made out to be and that the part of the playerbase who didn't appreciate it must have been much bigger.

 

Bioware may be returning to the Empire vs. Republic narrative, but there are no signs they are getting rid of the Alliance. The Zakuul storyline has run its course, but that's a separate issue from the Alliance, which has now been incorporated into the new narrative. After playing through Ossus, I get the feeling the Alliance is very much here to stay, wherever future story content takes us.

[sauceemynx]

Bioware may be returning to the Empire vs. Republic narrative, but there are no signs they are getting rid of the Alliance. The Zakuul storyline has run its course, but that's a separate issue from the Alliance, which has now been incorporated into the new narrative. After playing through Ossus, I get the feeling the Alliance is very much here to stay, wherever future story content takes us.

 

Yeah, I agree with this. Ossus, in my mind, does nothing to make the Alliance appear on its way out, the story has just naturally shifted away from Zakuul and onto something new. That was always going to happen, and isn't indicative of much otherwise. Indeed, Lana says that the Alliance is still a formidable force, we continue to get Alliance Alerts, returning companions like Nadia are keen to join the Alliance for what it offers, etc. Only time will tell, of course, but the fate of the Alliance is still very much an open question. The fact that the Imps and Pubs are back at it is not on its own conclusive; the Alliance can exist in that format. I guess upcoming content will tell the tale. Nor am I convinced that Ossus "proves" the majority hated the Alliance. I think that's reading far more into the content than is actually there.

Edited December 16, 2018 by sauceemynx

[Inspirals]

Yeah, I agree with this. Ossus, in my mind, does nothing to make the Alliance appear on its way out, the story has just naturally shifted away from Zakuul and onto something new. That was always going to happen, and isn't indicative of much otherwise. Indeed, Lana says that the Alliance is still a formidable force, we continue to get Alliance Alerts, returning companions like Nadia are keen to join the Alliance for what it offers, etc. Only time will tell, of course, but the fate of the Alliance is still very much an open question. The fact that the Imps and Pubs are back at it is not on its own conclusive; the Alliance can exist in that format. I guess upcoming content will tell the tale. Nor am I convinced that Ossus "proves" the majority hated the Alliance. I think that's reading far more into the content than is actually there.

 

Yes, personally I'm taking the Jedi Under Siege story as a statement from Bioware that the Alliance is here to stay.

[VanderII]

Really beatiful axp! I can't wait the next

[Ylliarus]

Bioware may be returning to the Empire vs. Republic narrative, but there are no signs they are getting rid of the Alliance. The Zakuul storyline has run its course, but that's a separate issue from the Alliance, which has now been incorporated into the new narrative. After playing through Ossus, I get the feeling the Alliance is very much here to stay, wherever future story content takes us.

 

Charles Boyd confirmed in the Bad Feeling Podcast Buvette that the Alliance will eventually be merged with either the Republic or the Empire and that for example, the Sith Warrior can become the Emperor's/Empress'/Empire's Wrath again: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/348746660?t=01h24m47s

[well]

I really liked the story on both sides. The bugs were a pain. As far as the gear. I won't go there. Is it worth staying subbed for 6 months. No. Especially how crafting keeps getting ridiculous. Before all the changes I would spend 6 hrs farming mats to use. Shut off the sound and put on some music. I am retired and have the time. Now it isn't worth the effort. Will I be back when 6.0 comes around. Probably because as far as the storyline I think you have done a excellent job. I have run 4 pubs and 3 imps so far and will do more. I am good for another 2 weeks.

[PennyAnn]

Charles Boyd confirmed in the Bad Feeling Podcast Buvette that the Alliance will eventually be merged with either the Republic or the Empire and that for example, the Sith Warrior can become the Emperor's/Empress'/Empire's Wrath again: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/348746660?t=01h24m47s

 

Actually, listening to the clip you linked he seems to be to be saying almost the opposite: That they want to "please all masters as best they can", recognizing that there are players who have absolutely no desire to go back to their former faction, as well as those who do (like you).

 

I think you will see them try to split the middle on this as much as they can, and they will likely never force the issue of merging the Alliance with either faction, but will potentially give you the option to do so if that is the direction you want the story line to take.

 

Bottom line: I think the "will eventually be merged" is more accurately stated: "will have the option to eventually be merged". I doubt they would anger the very real population of players who have zero interest in going from being wholly in charge of their Alliance to being a whipping boy for either the Republic or the Empire. I also realize you do not see returning to your former faction in that light, but that doesn't mean there aren't a decent chunk of the players who do, and I think Charles is the type to be respectful of that, indeed of all sides, when planning for the future direction of the story. He reinforces that with what he says in the video you linked.

 

.

[sauceemynx]

Charles Boyd confirmed in the Bad Feeling Podcast Buvette that the Alliance will eventually be merged with either the Republic or the Empire and that for example, the Sith Warrior can become the Emperor's/Empress'/Empire's Wrath again: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/348746660?t=01h24m47s

 

I'm sorry, but I listened to it and he didn't say that at all; he said they might eventually go that way, but they might not. He also pointed out that a lot of people like the Alliance. I think you need to listen to the entire bit on this subject again.

Edited December 16, 2018 by sauceemynx

[Goreshaga]

Charles Boyd confirmed in the Bad Feeling Podcast Buvette that the Alliance will eventually be merged with either the Republic or the Empire and that for example, the Sith Warrior can become the Emperor's/Empress'/Empire's Wrath again: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/348746660?t=01h24m47s

From what i've heard, it seems like there is a fair amount of people who want to go back to their faction, but also a fait amount of people who don't want to and want to keep the Alliance.

 

So clearly the best way to go would be to find a way to please the 2 groups... By letting people who enjoy the Alliance keep it, while letting people who want to go back merge the Alliance into their faction.

 

And merging the Alliance into one faction, how do you do that for saboteurs if you can't let them completely switch side ?

All my Imps are saboteurs, so if they're froced to merge with the Empire, i have 0 reason to play any of them anymore and can straight up delete all of them.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Actually, listening to the clip you linked he seems to be to be saying almost the opposite: That they want to "please all masters as best they can", recognizing that there are players who have absolutely no desire to go back to their former faction, as well as those who do (like you).

 

I think you will see them try to split the middle on this as much as they can, and they will likely never force the issue of merging the Alliance with either faction, but will potentially give you the option to do so if that is the direction you want the story line to take.

 

Bottom line: I think the "will eventually be merged" is more accurately stated: "will have the option to eventually be merged". I doubt they would anger the very real population of players who have zero interest in going from being wholly in charge of their Alliance to being a whipping boy for either the Republic or the Empire. I also realize you do not see returning to your former faction in that light, but that doesn't mean there aren't a decent chunk of the players who do, and I think Charles is the type to be respectful of that, indeed of all sides, when planning for the future direction of the story. He reinforces that with what he says in the video you linked.

 

.

 

I can't listen to podcasts, so I am very relieved that you and the others confirmed that it's not a definitive thing to merge.

 

I'm grateful that Charles appears to be listening to fans on this, if he's saying that there will be an Alliance-based option in the future and we won't all have to return to being Imperial or Republic servants.

 

And merging the Alliance into one faction, how do you do that for saboteurs if you can't let them completely switch side ?

All my Imps are saboteurs, so if they're froced to merge with the Empire, i have 0 reason to play any of them anymore and can straight up delete all of them.

 

Same, for my Republic characters. I have no desire to see any of them return to the Jedi or Republic and that would be a special kind of hell for them - my Jedi would literally airlock themselves before letting that happen. If the story forced them to merge their Alliance back into the Republic I couldn't play them anymore.

Edited December 16, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[sauceemynx]

I can't listen to podcasts, so I am very relieved that you and the others confirmed that it's not a definitive thing to merge.

 

I'm grateful that Charles appears to be listening to fans on this, if he's saying that there will be an Alliance-based option in the future and we won't all have to return to being Imperial or Republic servants.

 

It certainly sounded that way to me. The bit in question was short, so I'll try to type out a transcript that isn't too garbled. Stay tuned.

Edited December 16, 2018 by sauceemynx

[IoNonSoEVero]

It certainly sounded that way to me. The bit in question was short, so I'll try to type out a transcript that isn't too garbled Stay tuned.

 

Thank you! That would really be appreciated if you could.

[sauceemynx]

I can't listen to podcasts, so I am very relieved that you and the others confirmed that it's not a definitive thing to merge.

 

.

 

Okay, this is the best I could do. Doesn't really clarify a lot but it's also not "the Alliance is doomed" that some say it is.

 

Brian (guy asking question): …The Alliance is merging back into one or the other, the Republic or the Empire, how thorough is that going to be? So if you have a warrior that was formerly the hand of the Emperor, will that warrior be able to be the wrath of the emperor again, under Acina? Is that going to be like that, or is your chacter…

 

Charles: Certainly not in 5.10, right, you are just kind of establishing a more formal alliance. So you are a very, very valued friend…(laughing, jokes)…I could see us going that way eventually, um, I couldn’t like speak to an exact time frame where it would happen, right, and I know…because there’s a lot of players who don’t want that…they very specifically want to keep that degree of separation because they like that autonomy, so trying to find that right balance. So if we could, I think, for me the thing I would need, is either a really really great reason that everyone merges back to the factions, or a really really good way to keep it going either way, right? We are still friends but we’re not that friendly. (laughing) “I’m back in, I want my Dark Council seat, forget the Alliance ever existed,” I know there’s people who want that direction, it’s tricky because we want to please all masters as best we can.

 

That was it. How do you interpret it?

Edited December 16, 2018 by sauceemynx

[IoNonSoEVero]

Okay, this is the best I could do. Doesn't really clarify a lot but it's also not "the Alliance is doomed" that some say it is.

 

Brian (guy asking question): …The Alliance is merging back into one or the other, the Republic or the Empire, how thorough is that going to be? So if you have a warrior that was formerly the hand of the Emperor, will that warrior be able to be the wrath of the emperor again, under Acina? Is that going to be like that, or is your chacter…

 

Charles: Certainly not in 5.10, right, you are just kind of establishing a more formal alliance. So you are a very, very valued friend…(laughing, jokes)…I could see us going that way eventually, um, I couldn’t like speak to an exact time frame where it would happen, right, and I know…because there’s a lot of players who don’t want that…they very specifically want to keep that degree of separation because they like that autonomy, so trying to find that right balance. So if we could, I think, for me the thing I would need, is either a really really great reason that everyone merges back to the factions, or a really really good way to keep it going either way, right? We are still friends but we’re not that friendly. (laughing) “I’m back in, I want my Dark Council seat, forget the Alliance ever existed,” I know there’s people who want that direction, it’s tricky because we want to please all masters as best we can.

 

That was it. How do you interpret it?

 

Thank you so much!

 

He seems to jump around a lot, but I would personally interpret that to mean that they haven't decided what to do but that they are aware that many players don't want to return to the factions and many do, and they're trying to come up with ways to please everyone. I definitely didn't read it as "you're going back to the Empire and getting your old job back."

[annabethchase]

This is the best story since launch! Thank you so much for bringing back classic Star Wars content. Keep it up.

[sauceemynx]

Thank you so much!

 

He seems to jump around a lot, but I would personally interpret that to mean that they haven't decided what to do but that they are aware that many players don't want to return to the factions and many do, and they're trying to come up with ways to please everyone. I definitely didn't read it as "you're going back to the Empire and getting your old job back."

 

You're very welcome. And that's how I read it, too. Non-committal, but also non-threatening, if you will.

[annabethchase]

I can't listen to podcasts, so I am very relieved that you and the others confirmed that it's not a definitive thing to merge.

 

I'm grateful that Charles appears to be listening to fans on this, if he's saying that there will be an Alliance-based option in the future and we won't all have to return to being Imperial or Republic servants.

 

 

 

Same, for my Republic characters. I have no desire to see any of them return to the Jedi or Republic and that would be a special kind of hell for them - my Jedi would literally airlock themselves before letting that happen. If the story forced them to merge their Alliance back into the Republic I couldn't play them anymore.

 

But the vast majority of fans don't want the alliance. They've left over the years because of the poorly constructed alliance story. Listening to just the extremely dedicated fans who still play a ton is not a way to judge the general fanbase of this game. I hope that they are looking towards 6.0 as a true expansion that will draw back in a large chunk of those who left during the alliance era.

[IoNonSoEVero]

But the vast majority of fans don't want the alliance. They've left over the years because of the poorly constructed alliance story. Listening to just the extremely dedicated fans who still play a ton is not a way to judge the general fanbase of this game. I hope that they are looking towards 6.0 as a true expansion that will draw back in a large chunk of those who left during the alliance era.

 

I know people have tried to quantify "vast majority" before here, and IMHO that's a moot point. There are also people who would find it very upsetting and perhaps game-ending to be forced to be a lackey for their old faction again.

 

I doubt that they're just looking at responses here (and again, I know people have insisted "but my personal guild or whatever LOVES the return!"). There are many sources of feedback, and they can also look at how much time people have spent on building their Alliances in-game, how many characters they've chosen to play through KOTFE on, etc. They have a lot of stats along those lines that we do not, which include people not posting here or in other public forums or fan spaces online.

 

Which is why I think what Charles was alluding to, which is trying to please both sides, is a good thing. If there is an option to remain Alliance-based alongside one to return to the factions, you can play as you want and so can I.

Edited December 16, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[annabethchase]

The story is okay, too short but I do have a small question

 

 

Why do you keep returning people that are dead, Revan, Emperor and now Malgus. Why don't you create a new enemy instead of figuring a way to reconstruct a dead one.

 

The reason that certain characters are given fates that leave the door open for their return is that all the pre-launch content was about certain key characters. Bioware has Blur trailers, comics, novels, previous games, in-box physical media, etc. that hypes up certain characters. Those were quite effective in making me care about characters.

 

For example, Gnost-Dural is not some random new character to me. I have a "journal" that came in my physical box that established who this character is. Even better, this storyline 7 years later works perfectly for expanding upon what we already knew about him.

 

If you are massively bored, you can review my posting history and find that on nearly every "what do you want to see in x patch" I proposed using these pre-established characters. I feel extremely vindicated by this patch.

 

My new thoughts on how to expand from here are to use Kira and Scourge as the main characters in the expansion for the Rep/Imp sides. Also there's one key character still unused: Aryn Leneer from the deceived novel. She ties into so many storylines and should also be used in 6.0.

[annabethchase]

Bioware may be returning to the Empire vs. Republic narrative, but there are no signs they are getting rid of the Alliance. The Zakuul storyline has run its course, but that's a separate issue from the Alliance, which has now been incorporated into the new narrative. After playing through Ossus, I get the feeling the Alliance is very much here to stay, wherever future story content takes us.

 

In the spirit of compromise, this probably works:

 

If the alliance simply means my army of about 200 people on Odessen, I'm fine with that. That's a reasonable powerbase for me to have and still be involved in the Imp/Rep war on a personal level.

Edited December 16, 2018 by annabethchase

[Ylliarus]

Okay, this is the best I could do. Doesn't really clarify a lot but it's also not "the Alliance is doomed" that some say it is.

 

Brian (guy asking question): …The Alliance is merging back into one or the other, the Republic or the Empire, how thorough is that going to be? So if you have a warrior that was formerly the hand of the Emperor, will that warrior be able to be the wrath of the emperor again, under Acina? Is that going to be like that, or is your chacter…

 

Charles: Certainly not in 5.10, right, you are just kind of establishing a more formal alliance. So you are a very, very valued friend…(laughing, jokes)…I could see us going that way eventually, um, I couldn’t like speak to an exact time frame where it would happen, right, and I know…because there’s a lot of players who don’t want that…they very specifically want to keep that degree of separation because they like that autonomy, so trying to find that right balance. So if we could, I think, for me the thing I would need, is either a really really great reason that everyone merges back to the factions, or a really really good way to keep it going either way, right? We are still friends but we’re not that friendly. (laughing) “I’m back in, I want my Dark Council seat, forget the Alliance ever existed,” I know there’s people who want that direction, it’s tricky because we want to please all masters as best we can.

 

That was it. How do you interpret it?

 

And that's what we all want, isn't it? A compromise so that both sides can enjoy the story the way they want to as long as I get the option to cleanly cut every single tie to the Alliance and fully return to my original factions, I will be happy, but I won't settle for anything less. If you get the option to stay in the Alliance, then that will make me even happier because we'll both be able to get what we want!

 

I am just extremely content that finally they are talking about a potential end to the Alliance, even if it's only 1 of the choices that we'll get. It's only my hope they'll be able to keep up the divergence story wise, because having both a merge storyline and non-merge storyline is going to cost extra resources.

Edited December 16, 2018 by Ylliarus

[Goreshaga]

And that's what we all want, isn't it? A compromise so that both sides can enjoy the story the way they want to as long as I get the option to cleanly cut every single tie to the Alliance and fully return to my original factions, I will be happy, but I won't settle for anything less. If you get the option to stay in the Alliance, then that will make me even happier because we'll both be able to get what we want!

 

I am just extremely content that finally they are talking about a potential end to the Alliance, even if it's only 1 of the choices that we'll get. It's only my hope they'll be able to keep up the divergence story wise, because having both a merge storyline and non-merge storyline is going to cost extra resources.

Clearly the compromise is the best option if they can keep it.

 

I have no problem with other people getting rid of their Alliance, as long as i can keep mine.

 

If they end up forcing everyone to merge though, that'll be a big nope for me, no matter what kind of reason they could find to justify that.

[Swingkittie]

They revived a dead guy because they want swtor to be like Dragon Ball Z, where the main characters die all the time, but can be wished back with the Dragon Balls, only there are no cool Dragons or Egyptian style death Gods.

 

And the dead revived guy grew like 4 feet. I have a screen shot of him and my SI on Ilum and he isn't nearly as tall as the towering giant I encountered on Ossus.