I Replayed KotFE/KotET After A Year Of Not Touching It...

[Ylliarus]

But if the Alliance stays or goes I wouldn't take that as a victory for either side. The devs might have road mapped this story a long time ago, and surely Imps vs. Pubs in some form was always going to make a comeback. I'm very interested to see what form that takes.

 

Somehow I get the feeling the upcoming war will be the last one between these incarnations of the Galactic Republic and Sith Empire. We know the Sith will eventually fall apart into smaller factions led by warlords who battle one another for control. The Republic is also supposed to be heading towards an era of regression, a Dark Age if you will. I could imagine a devastating war being the catalyst for that, which would be a very interesting setting to explore. It would be cool to see a disastrous galactic war sweeping across the galaxy, having a very severe impact on it as it progresses.

[Pietrastor]

Both are infinitely better than SOR expansion you called 'epic'. Bioware has written a ton of nice stuff for TOR and its many expansion but Revan conclusion gotta be one of the worst, most banal, cliche-ridden, unimaginative, unfocused and disappointing pieces ever. Mass Effect 3 ending was gold in comparsion. It was barely even an expansion about Revan at all, we spend most of the times on forgettable pirate games (compare that to Gault/Vette chapter from KOTFE). And when it finally goes back to the point, it's extremly underwritten and ultimately pointless. Revan accomplishes nothing, learns nothing nor grows as a character. The GAMEPLAY structure of SOR was decent, with open-ish explorable planets mixed well with developed cutscenes and all. But the actual story content? Even the characters, Bioware's usual saving grace - there's little memorable character stuff to talk about.

[sauceemynx]

Somehow I get the feeling the upcoming war will be the last one between these incarnations of the Galactic Republic and Sith Empire. We know the Sith will eventually fall apart into smaller factions led by warlords who battle one another for control. The Republic is also supposed to be heading towards an era of regression, a Dark Age if you will. I could imagine a devastating war being the catalyst for that, which would be a very interesting setting to explore. It would be cool to see a disastrous galactic war sweeping across the galaxy, having a very severe impact on it as it progresses.

 

Something that epic would be fantastic!

[asiasusanna]

Let me trigger everyone here a little bit before I get to the main point of this thread, and of my (subjective) opinion.

 

It's a sad day when JK is considered good writing- it's very unoriginal, very JRPG-ish in the "Chosen one" mentality that it offers, and it's overall very linear in it's story progression (whether you're good or evil, you basically do the same things, you're simply more murderous and reluctant while you do it).

 

Despite how much people praise the vanilla class stories, it's like they all forget just how weak most Rep side stories actually were. JC... The less said the better (full of holes, basically over glorified baby sitter). Smuggler started out strong, only to fall apart as new writers took on the story from chapter 2 onwards. I've already talked about JK. Trooper... For what it's meant to represent it's decent, sadly (again, MY opinion) it just plays out as Mass Effect in SW universe (chapter 1- chasing a traitor while a bigger picture is slowly revealed, showing us that the threat is much bigger than we expected. Chapter 2 is amassing a team of experts for a "suicide mission", chapter 3 is just a bunch of cameos and persuading people to help you out to eliminate the final threat- ofc the General is a considerably smaller threat than the Reapers).

 

Imperial stories also occasionally suffer from glaring plot holes, but overall they are more cohesive, more thought out, and offer a tad bit more freedom of choice (ofc, can't ignore the masterpiece that is the Agent story with it's multiple endings, which were promptly made worthless by the expansions).

 

Now, onto the actual topic at hand: KotFE/ET were PAINFULLY clearly made with FU (Force users) in mind. I cannot and shall not forget the moment when my sniper used the Force to create a Force attuned sniper rifle. Overall, finding that Papa Valky found my slightly-less-intelligent-than-a-cucumber Bounty Hunter "The most interesting person that I've met in 20k years"(or however the quote goes) was frankly baffling and hilarious. The fact that Satele and Marr, much less the ENTIRE Galaxy put their safety and faith in the hands of my monkey of a person makes it even more sad.

 

Being able to breach Vay-bae's defenses and shooting her point blank, then promptly defeating Valky when he's at his strongest... Yeah let's not continue. My point is that the story was clearly written with JK/SW, and to a lesser extent JC/SI in mind. I was initially excited to get away from the Rep vs Imp story line (got boring and cliche to do the same thing over and over), but the last few expansions were so poorly written that I wish that when 6.0 starts, we'll find out that everything starting from KotFE onwards was simply a bad acid trip and we've just escaped Ziost.

 

Anyway, now that I've probably managed to anger people, I wish you all a good day/night and happy hunting!

[Ylliarus]

Despite how much people praise the vanilla class stories, it's like they all forget just how weak most Rep side stories actually were. JC... The less said the better (full of holes, basically over glorified baby sitter). Smuggler started out strong, only to fall apart as new writers took on the story from chapter 2 onwards. I've already talked about JK. Trooper... For what it's meant to represent it's decent, sadly (again, MY opinion) it just plays out as Mass Effect in SW universe (chapter 1- chasing a traitor while a bigger picture is slowly revealed, showing us that the threat is much bigger than we expected. Chapter 2 is amassing a team of experts for a "suicide mission", chapter 3 is just a bunch of cameos and persuading people to help you out to eliminate the final threat- ofc the General is a considerably smaller threat than the Reapers).

 

Imperial stories also occasionally suffer from glaring plot holes, but overall they are more cohesive, more thought out, and offer a tad bit more freedom of choice (ofc, can't ignore the masterpiece that is the Agent story with it's multiple endings, which were promptly made worthless by the expansions).

 

Oh I totally get you here, the Imperial class stories are far better than the Republic ones. Empire forever! But people always say Jedi Consular and Jedi Knight are bad but I actually really like them. Of course I prefer Inquisitor and Warrior, which are my top favourite ones, but Consular and Knight are quite enjoyable to me! (I do not exclude the possibility that I may be incredibly biased when it comes to these two because the Consular and Knight were the first two stories I ever played in this game many years ago, so my opinion may be heavily influenced by nostalgia).

 

But you're absolutely right, the Imperial stories leave the Republic ones miles behind when it comes to quality and ejoyability. Unless you play them Light Side, then they're cringy (to me), but Dark Side Inquisitor, Dark Side Warrior, those are epic!

 

Now, onto the actual topic at hand: KotFE/ET were PAINFULLY clearly made with FU (Force users) in mind. I cannot and shall not forget the moment when my sniper used the Force to create a Force attuned sniper rifle. Overall, finding that Papa Valky found my slightly-less-intelligent-than-a-cucumber Bounty Hunter "The most interesting person that I've met in 20k years"(or however the quote goes) was frankly baffling and hilarious. The fact that Satele and Marr, much less the ENTIRE Galaxy put their safety and faith in the hands of my monkey of a person makes it even more sad.

 

Being able to breach Vay-bae's defenses and shooting her point blank, then promptly defeating Valky when he's at his strongest... Yeah let's not continue. My point is that the story was clearly written with JK/SW, and to a lesser extent JC/SI in mind. I was initially excited to get away from the Rep vs Imp story line (got boring and cliche to do the same thing over and over), but the last few expansions were so poorly written that I wish that when 6.0 starts, we'll find out that everything starting from KotFE onwards was simply a bad acid trip and we've just escaped Ziost.

 

That's definitely one of the major flaws of KotFE and KotET that I didn't mention in the OP but is very true. The story is evidently intended for a Force User and it's a huge waste of potential that Bioware didn't do something extra for the Smuggler, Trooper, Agent and Bounty Hunter classes. I haven't yet gone through KotFE or KotET on a non-Force User and I actually am dreading to do so. Like, I can totally imagine the "weapon building" scene in Chapter 12 of KotFE to look ridiculous when you're building a sniper, blaster or blaster rifle.

 

I did have this idea in mind to make a Male Smuggler, romance Risha in the class story and then choose to become Emperor so that when she comes back my Smuggler will be nobility, but I don't feel particularly motivated to have a non-Force User go through either of those expansions yet

Edited December 10, 2018 by Ylliarus

[asiasusanna]

Oh I totally get you here, the Imperial class stories are far better than the Republic ones. Empire forever! But people always say Jedi Consular and Jedi Knight are bad but I actually really like them. Of course I prefer Inquisitor and Warrior, which are my top favourite ones, but Consular and Knight are quite enjoyable to me! (I do not exclude the possibility that I may be incredibly biased when it comes to these two because the Consular and Knight were the first two stories I ever played in this game many years ago, so my opinion may be heavily influenced by nostalgia).

 

But you're absolutely right, the Imperial stories leave the Republic ones miles behind when it comes to quality and ejoyability. Unless you play them Light Side, then they're cringy (to me), but Dark Side Inquisitor, Dark Side Warrior, those are epic!

 

 

 

That's definitely one of the major flaws of KotFE and KotET that I didn't mention in the OP but is very true. The story is evidently intended for a Force User and it's a huge waste of potential that Bioware didn't do something extra for the Smuggler, Trooper, Agent and Bounty Hunter classes. I haven't yet gone through KotFE or KotET on a non-Force User and I actually am dreading to do so. Like, I can totally imagine the "weapon building" scene in Chapter 12 of KotFE to look ridiculous when you're building a sniper, blaster or blaster rifle.

 

I did have this idea in mind to make a Male Smuggler, romance Risha in the class story and then choose to become Emperor so that when she comes back my Smuggler will be nobility, but I don't feel particularly motivated to have a non-Force User go through either of those expansions yet

 

I never play my toons Light or Dark- I find that a shallow way to RP. My characters have personal motivation, their own pet peeves and things that they like.

 

I find Light characters to be so naive that I simply can't believe them to be capable of anything other than talking. Dark characters on the other hand feel like toddlers throwing temper tantrums, thus I cannot believe that anyone would give them power or would follow them. Fact is that all the enemies that we faced who qualified as Dark were charismatic and inspired almost maniacal loyalty in their followers not just due to their powers, but also they knew when to praise, when to punish, when to stroke someone's ego and when someone would be more useful as asset rather than as a corpse- THAT is why I find Dark 5 characters unrealistic and pointless.

 

Anyway, good luck and happy hunting.

[Ylliarus]

I never play my toons Light or Dark- I find that a shallow way to RP. My characters have personal motivation, their own pet peeves and things that they like.

 

I find Light characters to be so naive that I simply can't believe them to be capable of anything other than talking. Dark characters on the other hand feel like toddlers throwing temper tantrums, thus I cannot believe that anyone would give them power or would follow them. Fact is that all the enemies that we faced who qualified as Dark were charismatic and inspired almost maniacal loyalty in their followers not just due to their powers, but also they knew when to praise, when to punish, when to stroke someone's ego and when someone would be more useful as asset rather than as a corpse- THAT is why I find Dark 5 characters unrealistic and pointless.

 

Anyway, good luck and happy hunting.

 

Oh don't misunderstand, I also have a personality and motivations in mind for each of my toons when I said Dark Side I meant that the bar may be Dark V or Light V when playing a Jedi, but the choices aren't standard always DS or LS. On my newest Sith Warrior for example, even though she'll become Dark V I make a mix of DS and LS choices in the story. I have a sort of Marr-inspired personality in my head for her, so she won't shy away from pragmatism but she can be ruthless and merciless when needed.

[asiasusanna]

Oh don't misunderstand, I also have a personality and motivations in mind for each of my toons when I said Dark Side I meant that the bar may be Dark V or Light V when playing a Jedi, but the choices aren't standard always DS or LS. On my newest Sith Warrior for example, even though she'll become Dark V I make a mix of DS and LS choices in the story. I have a sort of Marr-inspired personality in my head for her, so she won't shy away from pragmatism but she can be ruthless and merciless when needed.

 

I should apologise if my words came off as accusations. Unfortunately, I've dealt with the "Sith never show mercy, hurr Durr!!!11!!" or "A Jedi that makes a Dark choice even if it's the more logical one needs to be killed off!!!!!!!!"

 

It's just automatic reaction in me at this point to point out that full Light or Dark is just... Insane. I don't presume to tell people how to play their characters, but if you're gonna RP and "immerse" yourself in a story, you can't do illogical things then force others to deal with your BS (it is likely the main reason why I hate doing Imp side RP).

 

Anyway, rock on and happy hunting!

[Ylliarus]

I should apologise if my words came off as accusations. Unfortunately, I've dealt with the "Sith never show mercy, hurr Durr!!!11!!" or "A Jedi that makes a Dark choice even if it's the more logical one needs to be killed off!!!!!!!!"

 

It's just automatic reaction in me at this point to point out that full Light or Dark is just... Insane. I don't presume to tell people how to play their characters, but if you're gonna RP and "immerse" yourself in a story, you can't do illogical things then force others to deal with your BS (it is likely the main reason why I hate doing Imp side RP).

 

Anyway, rock on and happy hunting!

 

A Sith can be evil in a variety of ways, just as a Jedi can do good in more than one manner so I completely understand where you are coming from. I basically get the same reaction as you when I see yet another stereotypical lunatic brute Sith in RP or a lecturing emotionless goody twoe-shoes Jedi. A Sith can be pragmatic (Darth Marr), just as a Jedi can be radical (Master Kaedan) and toying around with various personalities and motivations for each is half the fun in creating a new character if you ask me

[kodrac]

KOTET isn't half bad. I guess if i did the math, I liked chapters 2, 5, 7 and 8. That's 4 out of 9. So it's a little over half bad. I liked running around on DK with Acina. I enjoyed exploring Iokath with Vette, and even though Iokath and the origins of the fleet were, erm, out there, I still liked the sense of discovery. Plus I get to finally off that damn Scorpio (whom I thoroughly enjoyed in vanilla, shame they turned her into a weasel). I guess after they telegraphed her betrayal so many times it was good to get it over with. I do spacebar every scene with Vaylin though. That screeching voice... fingernails on a chalkboard.

 

I agree with everything you said about 7 on Nathema. That's the only chapter I actually look forward too, barring the screeching of Vaylin, of course. And I'm fairly surprised I like chapter 8. It's essentially one giant trash mob corridor and too long, but the pacing of it feels right. The monotony of it has timely interrupts. I'm the opposite as you, I enjoyed the walker here vs previous uses of it. I probably just like launching missiles and taking out whole groups of mobs.

 

And chapter 9, oh my. Playing as Valkorian was cool, I'll give you that. I wish we had his powers on my Sith characters, but other than that, what a drag. You say taking him out with a datacron was anticlimactic. I say taking him out in a dream sequence was cringe worthy. Who is he, Freddy Krueger? Not only was a dream sequence cheesy, but after he brings Vaylin back to life so we defeat her with the datacron and his Pops, he then he brings her back again. Then Arcann. Really? Just get this over with. But the worst part was, even after all that silliness, the way we finally take him out is to say my dream my rules (that was one of the dialogue wheel choices) and we trot out the "Kneel before the Dragon of Zakuul" line. I had a headache for days from that eye roll.

Edited December 10, 2018 by kodrac

[Sonicphoto]

I started to redo the jedi knight story while Im also running kotfe again on my main jedi knight to put myself to the test. And honestly, I think I much rather do Kotfe and kotet again with same character than this class story. At least the prologue itself is probably my least favorite of all the classes. It is super rushed, you barely meet your master and suddenly your no longer a padawan. And Tython overall with the flesh raiders is just so uninteresting way to start. I felt all the other ones had an interesting twist to kick off your adventures and slowly make you progress the ranks. This is why I really liked Kotfe and Kotet a lot on my JK because it really made me be excited for the character and its more cinematic overall, and more impressive lighting, visuals that make your armor stand out more too.

[Goreshaga]

It is super rushed, you barely meet your master and suddenly your no longer a padawan.

I have the same complaint about that storyline, i think i'd have liked it better if our character had stayed a Padawan untill Orgus' death, it would have made it more impactful too, especially since the JK can state that they learned a lot from Orgus while being his Padawan for such a short time.

 

Just like with Kira, you're barely a Knight and she's supposed to be your Padawan ?

I could never consider her my Padawan, but simply a fellow Jedi who was Master Kiwiiks' Padawan, not mine.

[asiasusanna]

I have the same complaint about that storyline, i think i'd have liked it better if our character had stayed a Padawan untill Orgus' death, it would have made it more impactful too, especially since the JK can state that they learned a lot from Orgus while being his Padawan for such a short time.

 

Just like with Kira, you're barely a Knight and she's supposed to be your Padawan ?

I could never consider her my Padawan, but simply a fellow Jedi who was Master Kiwiiks' Padawan, not mine.

 

I found it hilarious- when I started played the game years ago, I still hadn't seen the movies, so when the JK story started throwing all of the lingo, I was confused half the time- I imagine now that my character felt the same way! XD

 

I think that Tython is the weakest starting planet- side missions, planetary missions, overall conflict is just so... Bland. Also the fact that it's the planet with the smallest amount of heroics does irritate me.

 

Anyway, lighten up, it's just a media that's long beyond being changed in any way- might as well enjoy the good bits! Good luck and happy hunting!

[LordVitalus]

I think that Tython is the weakest starting planet- side missions, planetary missions, overall conflict is just so... Bland. Also the fact that it's the planet with the smallest amount of heroics does irritate me.

 

Keep calm and wait for Ossus.

[TalleraLane]

Before I even read your post but saw it was by you, I know what it was going to say. I really do wonder why so many overall negative posters even play this game.

[Ylliarus]

Before I even read your post but saw it was by you, I know what it was going to say. I really do wonder why so many overall negative posters even play this game.

 

Pity you only judge me by the times when I am expressing critique, because overall you'll find me incredibly supportive of this game after all, I'm one of the white knights who rush to SWTOR's defense whenever there is another doomsaying post or thread on the forums so why do I express critique then? Because it's the only thing I can do to change something that I love and adore and want to see thrive.

 

It's what baffles me really, all these people who claim they love this game and therefore consider expressing critique as blasphemy. Nothing is perfect, not even this game. But it can be improved, players can make it better by expressing critique.

 

I didn't make this thread just to bash KotFE and KotET. Had you read it closely you would have seen that I highlighted positive and negative aspects of the last two expansions. That is called constructive criticism.

 

It saddens me that you write me off as someone negative, because if you'd know me then you'd be aware how much I love and adore this game. But when you love something you can't keep giving it only praise when you feel or know it's not going the way it should be. Surely, if someone you know and love would start doing things that weren't good for them you'd express constructive criticism in the hopes they'll mend their behaviour or improve?

 

That's the point when your love for someone or something stops being shallow and becomes genuine. Because it's easy to praise and adore something you love, but expressing criticism in the hopes it will improve or become better? That's the hard thing, that's that one step further in caring about someone or something.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Ylliarus

[TSCYoda]

I agree that there are some story-related flaws mostly during the FE-storyline.

 

But overall i am happy to go further on after chapter 1-3, Makeb and Shadow of Revan.

 

For me the traitor-story around Theron is - played now with all content together - is really great and i hope the new story continues in a consistent way...we will see in a couple of hours

 

As of no my opinion is that Charles and the whole team did a remarkable work till now and we can be glad to have new content ongoing...don't lose it out of mind

 

 

 

Greetings

Markus

[Ylliarus]

I agree that there are some story-related flaws mostly during the FE-storyline.

 

But overall i am happy to go further on after chapter 1-3, Makeb and Shadow of Revan.

 

For me the traitor-story around Theron is - played now with all content together - is really great and i hope the new story continues in a consistent way...we will see in a couple of hours

 

As of no my opinion is that Charles and the whole team did a remarkable work till now and we can be glad to have new content ongoing...don't lose it out of mind

 

 

 

Greetings

Markus

 

Believe me, I am incredibly excited for today's patch! I've been looking forward to Jedi Under Siege ever since it was announced, because I honestly believe it is a huge step in the right direction, with how the story is going back to what made SWTOR great in the first place.

 

It's good that I have class today, otherwise I'd not know what to do with myself while waiting for the patch to go live xD

[JattaGin]

A very detailed OP. I partially agree and partially disagree.

 

I don't mind the story (except for the plotholes, missed opportunities and things that don't make much sense or seem odd). The whole Valkorion conclusion for example doesn't fully add up for me.

 

My main gripe with those expansions is the tedious gameplay of most of the chapters. I brought 8 chars through KotFE. But only 3 through KotET. And that's not because of story issues. The main reason that stops me from going into KotET chapter 1 is knowing that there will come the walker sequence. While super fun for the first time, the replayability of it is close to zero. And it gets (negatively) topped by the even more tedious walker scene in chapter 8.

 

Since I play video games mainly for their stories, it's kinda interesting that I judge KotFE/KotET by their gameplay aspects, while cutting them big slack on their story aspects.

 

The traitor arc gets a "no thanks" from me from both perspectives. No good story, no good gameplay (solo flashpoints, meh).

 

Generally, I like the Alliance and I don't want to go back to rep vs. imp. They both failed and are both not appealing to me anymore.

[DarthSpuds]

My main gripe with those expansions is the tedious gameplay of most of the chapters. I brought 8 chars through KotFE. But only 3 through KotET. And that's not because of story issues. The main reason that stops me from going into KotET chapter 1 is knowing that there will come the walker sequence. While super fun for the first time, the replayability of it is close to zero. And it gets (negatively) topped by the even more tedious walker scene in chapter 8.

 

This part of my dissatisfaction with KotFE/ET as well.

 

There ARE good bits to both. But the bad bits, the boring bits, the tedium-infused lack of replayability are just so bad/boring/tedious that what good there is effectively gets washed away.

 

I LOVED the idea of episodic content drops that progressed the story month-by-month; tied in with the subscription bonus chapter unlocks etc I was genuinely enthused about the release pattern for FE/ET.

 

The Walker Missions are - to put it bluntly - some of the very worst content in an MMORPG I have ever played IMO. Heck even the "on-rail" Space Missions are more interesting and feel more "dynamic" than the Walkers. I honestly can not find one redeeming feature of them.

 

Some of the plot-holes are, IMO, just too big and too glaring to ignore - almost none of FE/ET makes any sense at all for Non-Force-Users, and much of it only makes real sense from a Jedi-Knight POV.

 

The big issue for me was the gameplay - it was tedious. it just was. Corridor -> 3 Mobs -> Corridor -> 3 Mobs -> Corridor -> 3 Mobs+Boss. Really, was this the best that could be done. Why not have alternative routes through a level depending on Force / Tech aptitude, on Social Interactions (Force or Non-Force)? Some of the earlier content had "short cuts" that could be triggered by the use of certain Crew Skills - what wasn't this brilliant idea re-used? This would make replaying the content with different Companions open up new options and so massively increase replayability (which is conspicuous by its absence through all of FE/ET IMO).

 

Fallen Empire for me was: too many missed opportunities.

Eternal Throne: so many missed opportunities that even the basic target was missed.

 

All The Best

[Thruine]

I did enjoy the KotFE/KotET but I also think Star Wars is more than regurgitating the original films. The Empire/Republic (in this case but Rebellion in the films) were a story for them (and apparently the sequels but oh well). I'm much more likely to think this time period involved Zakuul and the Alliance than I am that look everything you seen before actually existed 10,000 years before. Technology doesn't evolve that fast, right?

 

That said, sure, I can see if some feel that is the ONLY story you can tell in Star Wars. After all, the current films are retreading this tire. The game is returning to it. Obviously its just what some think. Just like some think Star Trek should always involve a ship and not a starbase as the main setting. So we just repeat and repeat. There's nothing wrong about that viewpoint. Lots of thinks reinforce it.

 

But as to not feeling Star Warsy is a lot different to me. If you take the universe and just open it wide then you can have lots of things feel Star Warsy that you might not consider. It could support a comedy. Heavy realistic drama. Light hearted heroes. Horror. All of that could fight as long as you accept the conceits of what came before (or after I guess in this case). A big part... a huge part in fact of why I'm not a bigger Star Wars fan is because it all feels like the same thing. I may be getting different eras or actors but they all seem to be filling the checkboxes the original films set. Marvel does films feel similar also but I'm a much bigger fan of them because I feel different watching a Thor movie compared to a Captain America. Star Wars just hasn't been able to do that for me except in this one game. So I like that it at least tried.

[krakadyla]

The main reason that stops me from going into KotET chapter 1 is knowing that there will come the walker sequence. While super fun for the first time, the replayability of it is close to zero. And it gets (negatively) topped by the even more tedious walker scene in chapter 8.

 

Same. Sometimes I think about running another character through, to see how's voice actin' and stuff, and then I remember the walkers and am all "Nah I'm good".

Edited December 11, 2018 by krakadyla

[Vengola]

Yeah, the walker parts are horrible for some reason. I normally love the things but they are not fun in here.

[Ylliarus]

Fallen Empire for me was: too many missed opportunities.

Eternal Throne: so many missed opportunities that even the basic target was missed.

 

I think this is a very valid summary for the critiques I have of both expansions. While I did like KotET far more than I did KotFE, the expansion itself is really one giant missed opportunity.

 

But KotET reaps what KotFE sowed, and the latter was bad, simply bad. The story they introduced here did not fit with SWTOR's main story and the huge decline in players and subs since then proves that the story didn't work. I know there were also other factors that led to the decline in playerbase, but so many people I knew left the game because of the path the story had taken. I am not talking about four or five, literally dozens of RP guilds died out because players did not like the direction the narrative had taken. And those players did not engage in PvP or PvE, they only did RP, so the PvE/PvP content drought did not affect them. They left purely for the fact that SWTOR no longer provided them with the story content they wanted.