Sniper Volley Needs Change

[Cokeroft]

Plain and simple: This talent sucks. At first glance, I thought it was great, a passive 9% alacrity if I keep my rotation up? Sounds like a good challenge for anyone. Then, I found out that when you have 3 stacks, sniping again doesn't refresh that stack. This is simply garbage in its current state.

 

This talent should be changed so that when you have 3 stacks and use Snipe, it simply refreshes that stack, thus allowing you to be 9% hasted as long as you are good and can keep your rotation going. Most fights probably aren't going to let you just sit there and afk snipe, but 10~ seconds of 9% alacrity for 3 talent points? No thanks.

[Ayestes]

Sniper Volley isn't that great, that's for certain. Alacrity in general isn't a good stat for Snipers unless you want to burst harder with Snipe, Ambush, or Series of Shots at the cost of losing more energy per second.

 

I could give a lot of suggestions as to what should be improved in the Marksman Tree actually.

[Bangorango]

it may not be 'that' great, but its a decision of where else to put those pts

 

save 15 secs on entrench and orbital strike?

 

diversion?

 

save a couple secs on leg shot?

 

see what i mean...its all margianl at best and situational

[Fentanyl]

Stack it with Target Acquired at 50. Then lol your way to the bank. (It's very good.)

 

I'd also like to know what you'd be taking as an alternative. In endgame PvE, every second counts. If you think Alacrity doesn't matter you're flat wrong. I just don't put it on my gear because I took all the alacrity talents.

 

There's a reason my guild's called "One Percent Wipes."

 

Come back and talk to me when your guild's running Nightmare Bonethrasher, his enrage comes up, and Sector Ranger and Cover Screen aren't doing crap for you. Heh. Sniper Volley every 30 seconds in a 6minute fight is pretty handy if you use it correctly.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Fentanyl

[Cokeroft]

No, it's not handy for any fight duration. Over a 6 minute fight, let's say you have 15 seconds of the buff and it cuts off .2s off each cast (let's just say snipe). You really think you are going to have the energy to spam it every 30 seconds? You really think that adding 3-4 more casts of Snipe over a 6 minute fight is worth it? It's not

 

It also makes it worse that it's 3 points you basically have to dump there (as others have said), so it needs to be more useful or lower points, etc.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Cokeroft

[Ahzmat]

Then, I found out that when you have 3 stacks, sniping again doesn't refresh that stack.

 

This really boggled my mind as well. It just doesn't seem to sync well with our other reactive instant casts like Followthrough and Explosive Probe.

 

I constantly feel like I'm choosing between spamming more Snipes and continuing with my normal rotation. I did modify my rotation a bit to compensate for having Sniper Volley every other Ambush, but I am still getting used to it.

 

It almost feels like once I'm in Sniper Volley, I am supposed to be Sniping. Maybe I'm not level cap yet but the alacrity only fives me .3 off of Series of Shots and it only takes .1 off Snipe!! What is this?

 

I don't think it needs to be changed drastically, but a redesign isn't entirely out of the question considering it relies on an ability that requires a critical hit on Snipe to even be useful.

[stealthrider]

Sniper Volley is mainly useful to take .3seconds off of the channel time of Series of Shots. It may not sound like a lot, but having that DoT end .3seconds faster is a very big deal.

 

It's mostly there, though, to help dictate a proper rotation. Ie, Ambush, Followthrough, Snipe, Followthrough, Snipe, Series of Shots, Followthrough. Sniper Volley helps you get into the right mindset.

 

Following this rotation (roughly, with Shatter Shot->Snipe->Followthrough->Series->Rapid Fire as my opener and using utility skills/moving as needed) I almost never drop below 60 energy and I don't even have Rifle Shot on my bar. For those few times I do, Adrenaline Probe is up.

 

Without Sniper Volley, it would have taken a lot more testing to settle into this rotation.

[NorthernRage]

Stack it with Target Acquired at 50. Then lol your way to the bank. (It's very good.)

 

I'd also like to know what you'd be taking as an alternative. In endgame PvE, every second counts. If you think Alacrity doesn't matter you're flat wrong. I just don't put it on my gear because I took all the alacrity talents.

 

There's a reason my guild's called "One Percent Wipes."

 

Come back and talk to me when your guild's running Nightmare Bonethrasher, his enrage comes up, and Sector Ranger and Cover Screen aren't doing crap for you. Heh. Sniper Volley every 30 seconds in a 6minute fight is pretty handy if you use it correctly.

 

Nice condescending tone. Without a combat log to parse you're just flying by the seat of your pants. But judging from the site in your signature you like to do that a lot.

[KalSpiro]

it may not be 'that' great, but its a decision of where else to put those pts

 

save 15 secs on entrench and orbital strike?

 

diversion?

 

save a couple secs on leg shot?

 

see what i mean...its all margianl at best and situational

 

Immunity to all CC in 45 seconds instead of a minute, yes please.

 

-45% accuracy so they can't hit **** and knocks them out of cover? Absolutely.

 

If I were more into PvP, completely behind leg shot.

 

Snipe Volley has no room in my build at all. Granted my current rotation could work with it, I don't care, it's a waste of space for how much you get out of it vs what you have to put into it.

[Fentanyl]

Nice condescending tone. Without a combat log to parse you're just flying by the seat of your pants. But judging from the site in your signature you like to do that a lot.

 

No, I play by feel because I've actually been playing Sniper longer than any other player writing or talking about this class. That's just a fact.

 

Short of devs and internal testers, no one has played this class as long or as much as I have. Take it for what you will.

 

You're right that I can't parse it -- but for now, that's the best you're going to get from anyone (me included). People telling me how wrong I am or blanket dismissing talents need to offer constructive criticism with real analysis behind it. By all means tell me what I, personally, can do better -- or what you think the devs need to improve.

 

Do I think Sniper Volley is perfect? No. Do I think it is a massive damage boost? No. I think it could be improved and that there could be a better talent there in that tree. Is it the best we have? Yes.

 

But for what it is, it's a good talent. If you're going for damage in the Marksman tree it makes more sense to build it than the available alternatives. And that's the only part I care about.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Fentanyl

[Ahzmat]

No, I play by feel because I've actually been playing Sniper longer than any other player writing or talking about this class. That's just a fact.

 

Short of devs and internal testers, no one has played this class as long or as much as I have. Take it for what you will.

 

It's true... at least as far as I know... I've been reading his posts and blog entries for quite some time. Thanks for all your help dude, it really helps a lot.

 

Do I think Sniper Volley is perfect? No. Do I think it is a massive damage boost? No. I think it could be improved and that there could be a better talent there in that tree. Is it the best we have? Yes.

 

That's about good enough for me. I guess it just takes getting used to.

[stealthrider]

I think it'd be nice if subsequent Snipes refreshed the buff duration. Otherwise IMO it's fine. Like I said, it seems to exist to help you get into a rotation, and for that it works perfectly.

[insecta]

Plain and simple: This talent sucks. At first glance, I thought it was great, a passive 9% alacrity if I keep my rotation up? Sounds like a good challenge for anyone. Then, I found out that when you have 3 stacks, sniping again doesn't refresh that stack. This is simply garbage in its current state.

 

This talent should be changed so that when you have 3 stacks and use Snipe, it simply refreshes that stack, thus allowing you to be 9% hasted as long as you are good and can keep your rotation going. Most fights probably aren't going to let you just sit there and afk snipe, but 10~ seconds of 9% alacrity for 3 talent points? No thanks.

 

What happens if you are fighting a boss and the fight goes on for 10-20 minutes? Is having that buff every 30 or so seconds completely useless then? I think not. Use your brain before you come here and start spewing ****. Of course the talent is not useful for every situation, but that does not make it broken or garbage or crap.

[Jiav]

What happens if you are fighting a boss and the fight goes on for 10-20 minutes? Is having that buff every 30 or so seconds completely useless then? I think not. Use your brain before you come here and start spewing ****. Of course the talent is not useful for every situation, but that does not make it broken or garbage or crap.

 

Compared to other classes tree, marksman have tons of subpar skills, even our 40er talent is not very good at all.

 

Haste is just not a very good stat for us. If bioware wanted us to have haste, maybe they should have given us haste on any of our sets.

 

So far only the medic set has haste.

 

I would prolly redesign it to give, something like 9% crit chance to snipe and ft. And each time you crit, the chance reduces 3% until you reach 0.

 

Right now there is no reason to get haste as a marksman or engi.

 

Same goes for target aquired. Pretty much only useful for SoS.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Jiav

[Veala]

It's okay for SoS, but that's all. Reducing the cast time on Snipe and Ambush does nothing when the GCD is 1.5 seconds anyway unless you're playing with a bit too much latency. Otherwise it'll buy you an extra GCD or two of damage from time saved on SoS over the course of the fight, which isn't nearly enough to justify its position in the tree. But then again, what else are you gonna take for PvE dps? =p

[bodatious]

It's okay for SoS, but that's all. Reducing the cast time on Snipe and Ambush does nothing when the GCD is 1.5 seconds anyway unless you're playing with a bit too much latency. Otherwise it'll buy you an extra GCD or two of damage from time saved on SoS over the course of the fight, which isn't nearly enough to justify its position in the tree. But then again, what else are you gonna take for PvE dps? =p

 

Alacrity will push the GCD on cast time abilities below 1.5sec.

[Bamfed]

Alacrity will push the GCD on cast time abilities below 1.5sec.

 

^^ Truth ^^

[Tibbel]

Alacrity will push the GCD on cast time abilities below 1.5sec.

 

This is true.

 

Alacrity will not reduce the cooldown on Followthrough.

 

This is also true.

 

Increases to alacrity can be useful for burst damage, but if we're bursting we are probably focusing on harder-hitting abilities than Snipe.

 

Because we favor a 6-second rotation, using Followthrough (FT) as the metronome, there's not much time for alacrity to give us anything.

 

To avoid delaying a FT, we have 6 seconds each rotation in which to gain 1.5 seconds for an extra Rifle Shot. (We can't use an energy-costing ability because then our already energy-neutral rotations would turn energy-negative and unsustainable.) FT's global cooldown eats up 1.5 of those seconds already, so we're left with 4.5s.

 

If we assume we are casting for all of those 4.5 seconds, then we need 33.33% alacrity to reduce that to 3 seconds, leaving 1.5 for Rifle Shot.

 

Sniper Volley gives us a maximum of 9% for a maximum of 6 seconds.

 

Although we may not need to gain a full 1.5 seconds in order for an extra Rifle Shot to outweigh a delay of FT, it's probably pretty close due to the damage disparity between the two abilities. Maybe 1.3 seconds, which would require about 29% alacrity.

 

In short, Sniper Volley would have to be both maintainable and approximately 3 times stronger for it to begin to look attractive for consistent DPS.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Tibbel

[IronSalamander]

I had this originally but it just does not have a high enough return on investment as it stands now so dropped it for the time being. Sithwarrior.com goes into more detail and number-crunching if you want to get their take on it.

[Smaug]

Could it be better, yes. Those that knock alacricity aren't PVPn' in the 50 bracket though. Our biggest issue against skilled players is LOS. Your only way to combat this is alacricity.

[KseriousEG]

Snipe is the most energy inefficient main damage ability a MM has... and it lands in the middle of the pack on DPS. so having a skill that requires you to chain snipe is a terrible idea.

 

SoS, followthrough, ambush, and takedown are way more energy efficient. Since conserving energy is key to sustained DPS (i.e. hardmode ops)... then yes sniper volley is a complete waste. All it does is force you to burn through energy. If you lead from an ambush into FT and then two snipes to reach 9%, then any other useful actions that will use the 9% will put you well below optimal energy. I found that every time I reached 9% I had to follow immediately with rifle shot, followthrough, rifle shot... which seems like a complete waste of the 9% to me.

 

9% cunning is a much better use of 3 skill points for sustained dps.

 

sniper volley = worst MM skill there is.

[JoyProtocol]

The way I see this ability is that in most PvP cases, as well as while leveling - Sniper Volley is simply sub-par. You will get more benefit out of every single other talent.

 

Once you reach Ops level gameplay, you don't need to do as much AOE (depends on group) or CC, so you need to do whatever maximizes your damage from cover. This ability definitely does that.

 

It sucks, but it's also the best option.

[Irenicus_Jon]

I ignore sniper volley on my MM build. Any talent that dictates me to use a specific attack (that is one of the worst attacks to begin with) repeatedly better have some good utility or damage. Sniper volley has neither. I'd rather have cd reduction on leg shot, at least that has uses.

[NicWester]

save 15 secs on entrench and orbital strike?

 

save a couple secs on leg shot?

 

For PvP, those are exactly the ones you want, to be honest. A couple seconds on Leg Shot means you can stop more Hutt Ballers from scoring (or hilariously stop them on top of the fire pits), but more important than that is Entrench. Damage reduction and a complete immunity to CC will win you most fights outright, considering how most players frontload their damage and CC abilities. A 25% reduction in Entrench's cooldown means you can use it more often and survive more fights. It's astoundingly useful.

 

Reduction on Orbital Barrage is meh, though. It's gravy on top of something already good enough (which makes more sense when you realize I don't like gravy).