SWTOR, Learn From ESO!

[Ylliarus]

Today I saw the announcement of yet another DLC for ESO, Murkmire. I am simply amazed to see how amazingly ESO is churning out DLC after DLC, Expansion after Expansion. We get entirely new areas to explore, new story content to follow, tons of new missions to do and it's all simply amazing. The way ESO is doing it keeps its players engaged. We continiously get new content to go through, new maps, missions and story.

 

SWTOR should look to ESO and learn from them, analyse how they do stuff and try to go about things the same way. I know SWTOR has a much smaller team than ESO, but if they brought solid content more frequently (with this I mean new maps, missions and story) like the latter does the game could rebuild a bigger playerbase and in turn have a bigger income. The current lack of new content in SWTOR is pushing players away in droves and even I, who often stood to Bioware's defense on the forums, can see the current way is not good.

 

We need story updates more frequently, we need them to be more solid, not just a small flashpoint and that's it. We need new areas, missions and dailies in the way ESO is introducing them in droves. Do regular updates on planets like ESO does with provinces! Have a Dromund Kaas DLC, a Dantooine DLC, an Onderon DLC, an Empress Teta DLC etc etc. Go about it the way ESO does; access to these DLC's could either be bought or obtained through Subbing.

 

I seriously and honestly think that SWTOR should look the Elder Scrolls Online and learn from them, doing that could bring a stop to players leaving in droves and even turn the tide in SWTOR's favour. This game can be great, this game can make a comeback and I believe learning from ESO could be the key.

[TUXs]

ESO is a huge game for Bethesda Softworks, SWTOR is a tiny game for EA. And ESO is cross platform - SWTOR can't begin to compete with ESO. Edited October 8, 2018 by TUXs

[Ylliarus]

ESO is a huge game for Bethesda Softworks, SWTOR is a tiny game for EA. And ESO is cross platform - SWTOR can't begin to compete with ESO.

 

Oh but I am not suggesting they should compete, that is something I don't even dream of. Only a once-in-a-billion-miracle can make SWTOR actually compete with ESO. However, that's not what I said, I said SWTOR should learn from ESO, look at how that game does stuff and try to implement it as well or go about it in a similar approach.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Ylliarus

[fatsi]

Money can't be learned though.

[FlameYOL]

It's a nice idea... but not going to happen. You're dealing with 2 different companies here, Bethesda/Zenimax clearly cares about ESO enough to invest in it, EA doesn't care the same way about SWTOR. What we have is what we're going to get unfortunately, EA isn't going to invest in this game like Bethesda/Zenimax. I'm not saying they shouldn't, they totally should give this game more of an investment, to make money one had to spend money... but that's not how EA works, minimal investment, maximum profit even if at the expense of the players/developers. Overall I would love for your suggestion to be implemented, I just believe by this point it would be rather unrealistic considering who we're dealing with as a publisher.

[Mournblood]

...minimal investment, maximum profit even if at the expense of the players/developers...

 

This should be EA's brand phrase. It's so literally on the money (pun intended).

[ImmortalLowlife]

First step.... make SWTOR available on PS4 and XBone.....(like a LOT of players asked for in the beginning )

 

Wait they can't/won't?

 

Well.... nevermind. They'll never compete.

[TUXs]

Oh but I am not suggesting they should compete, that is something I don't even dream of. Only a once-in-a-billion-miracle can make SWTOR actually compete with ESO. However, that's not what I said, I said SWTOR should learn from ESO, look at how that game does stuff and try to implement it as well or go about it in a similar approach.

SWTOR needs money to have a similar approach - money that ESO has and SWTOR lacks because ESO is light years ahead of SWTOR in how their game was designed (cross platform). You're asking for a moped (SWTOR) to have a similar towing capacity to an F150 (ESO). Size matters...

Edited October 8, 2018 by TUXs

[JennyFlynn]

There are plenty of games they could learn from, including their own vanilla SWTOR. The problem, I feel, isn't not knowing better or needing a clue, it's financing and EA's willingness to invest. Of course they could, theoretically, release a new playable content planet every month but they need money and the workforce to do so. SWTOR is just a drop in EA's ocean, one to milk for income with the bare minimum investment.

[McBaal]

I think they'll keep drops of content coming and ultimately, in case the license gets renewed, start a new game to be ready when the D&D trilogy is released (in case the rumors are true and it is a trilogy during the old republics era). What kind of game? Dunno, most likely some new version of Battlefront and a real F2P version of SWTOR noone cares about anymore.

But who knows, maybe the next director at Lucasfilms (3 more year of crazy KK...ugh ) will force EA to actually do more with the license...

 

Edit: Or, in case Anthem is a success, an Anthem / SWTOR 2 mixture.

Edited October 8, 2018 by McBaal

[Andryah]

Why is it that players insist on comparing MMOs one to another, and insisting they clone/copy each other? And claiming if X MMO just did what Y MMO does... life would be somehow perfect. It's certainly not some silver bullet solution as some players would like to make it out to be.

 

They are ALWAYS different in many ways... and each should be embraced for what it is.. what it offers, as well as understood for what it does not offer. In fact.. copying another MMO, in any way, has more often been complained about then when they do not copy. I guess.. the average player is never satisfied.. no matter what.

 

Take console ports for example...... some studios design for it up front, thinking it ensures a larger player base (even though there is little actual evidence of this in many cases, at least in terms of player retention), and some do not. SWTOR will not simply because the entire game is deployed across a customized version of Hero engine.. and no such beast exists for any of the consoles. Players may not like it.. but it is what it is, and multiple ports carry their own overhead and limitations. ESO, for example, in my view sucks due to how they designed the UI.. which clearly was designed to squeeze it into console play at the expense of a PC with keyboard.

 

Play the MMO that best fits your needs/wants and enjoy. Hell... play several different ones in rotation and largely avoid bordem caused by insufficient content for consumption. But there is no perfect MMO.... no such animal exists, and never has.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Andryah

[TUXs]

Why is it that players insist on comparing MMOs one to another...

Huh? People compare similar items all the time...what would you prefer people compare it to...an apple?

[Ylliarus]

Huh? People compare similar items all the time...what would you prefer people compare it to...an apple?

 

The apple I ate today was nothing like SWTOR though. I did my best to compare but something just seemed off and I couldn't put my finger on it. I thought maybe it's the colour or the shape, maybe it's not as round as SWTOR. Or maybe it was the taste... there was a similarity in the bite I took from the apple and the bite I took from SWTOR, but clearly there was something not quite the same. Maybe the apple was grown in a different country, hmm...

 

SWTOR needs money to have a similar approach - money that ESO has and SWTOR lacks because ESO is light years ahead of SWTOR in how their game was designed (cross platform). You're asking for a moped (SWTOR) to have a similar towing capacity to an F150 (ESO). Size matters...

 

No I do get what you're saying and you're right. It probably is just my hope and desire to see the game revived that is talking, to have it bloom again. I know it wouldn't ever reach ESO's level, but there is still so much the game could offer and bring. The Old Republic era is just so amazing and interesting!

Edited October 8, 2018 by Ylliarus

[Rion_Starkiller]

Lack of EA investment into this game is what is killing it. Nothing else. Well... that and bad ideas like Galactic Command and KOT**.

 

But I think we still have a couple years left. So enjoy it while you can.

 

What if 6.0 is actually Anthem and Keith is just trolling us?

Edited October 8, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

[Ylliarus]

Lack of EA investment into this game is what is killing it. Nothing else. Well... that and bad ideas like Galactic Command and KOT**.

 

But I think we still have a couple years left. So enjoy it while you can.

 

What if 6.0 is actually Anthem and Keith is trolling us?

 

I agree, KotFE and KotET were two huge mistakes that pushed away a lot of players. Especially steering away from the core theme of the game, the Empire and the Republic, the Jedi and the Sith. With the direction the story went, they pushed away a lot of diehard fans who loved SWTOR for its unique themes. I hope that the return to Empire vs Republic is the first step in restoring what SWTOR once was.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Ylliarus

[Andryah]

Lack of EA investment into this game is what is killing it. Nothing else. Well... that and bad ideas like Galactic Command and KOT**.

 

But I think we still have a couple years left. So enjoy it while you can.

 

I think we would all like to see more investment (for players.. this generally means more content more frequently) .. though none of us actually know the level of investment currently underway... being as they are tucked inside the studio working on 6.0 and not commenting on 6.0 yet. Time will tell if the next expac represents yet another change in approach or not.... though I would expect it being 2 years now since 5.0.... a bigger expac is coming this time around.. rather then the smaller ones that rolled on a yearly basis in the past (though 2.0 and to some extent even 3.0 were underway well before they revealed them). 4.0 actually triggered the largest return of players to SWTOR of any expac.... which belies the claims that it was a huge mistake that some players claim. though that was 3 years ago.. and is history now. 5.0 clearly did not resonate will with many players... so the real question is... what comes next with 6.0.. and we just don't know yet.

 

Having an actual discussion about investment (even speculative in nature), rather then drive by comparisons to other MMOs would be a more productive discussion in my view... though all the negative narratives would probably just drown it out.

 

Considering the large meltdown in the WoW forums over it's latest expac.... I don't think MMO players in general are capable of a productive discussion about content addtions to be honest. There are simply too many differences in player preferences to please the player base, broadly speaking, in any MMO.

 

But of course the "grass is always greener" in whatever MMO a player is not actually currently playing. So.. I agree with your closing statement that the best pathway is to just enjoy what we have and if that is unenjoyable.. maybe find something that is.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Andryah

[Ylliarus]

I think we would all like to see more investment (for players.. this generally means more content more frequently) .. though none of us actually know the level of investment currently underway... being as they are tucked inside the studio working on 6.0 and not commenting on 6.0 yet. Time will tell if the next expac represents yet another change in approach or not.... though I would expect it being 2 years now since 5.0.... a bigger expac is coming this time around.. rather then the smaller ones that rolled on a yearly basis in the past (though 2.0 and to some extent even 3.0 were underway well before they revealed them).

 

Having an actual discussion about investment (even speculative in nature), rather then drive by comparisons to other MMOs would be a more productive discussion in my view... though all the negative narratives would probably just drown it out.

 

Considering the large meltdown in the WoW forums over it's latest expac.... I don't think MMO players in general are capable of a productive discussion about content addtions to be honest. So.. I agree with your closing statement that the best pathway is to just enjoy what we have and if that is unenjoyable.. maybe find something that is.

 

There is a difference between not enjoying something and wanting to see something you enjoy flourish. I am not complaining that I hate SWTOR, I am expressing an inner desire to see the game that I love so much become successful again. That's what I was talking about when I compared SWTOR to ESO, I am not doing it to bash the former by praising the latter, I am hoping that SWTOR will go down a path that will make it flourish again.

 

Why settle for something if you can have more? See it become better? Especially if you know the potential is there, if it received the proper means to grow (money, money, money, must be funny, in a rich man's world...)

Edited October 8, 2018 by Ylliarus

[jimmorrisson]

This game doesn't need to learn anything from ESO or any other title as Expansion 5.* is working as intended where working as intended is defined as:

 

- Shifting 98% of this title's team to the vaporware known as Anthem.

 

- Using gear as subscription bait - of which gear is obtained via extremely slow grind using pre-existing content and obnoxiously rare gear drops via loot crates.

 

- Deliberately downscaling the game (Server Merge 2017) while waiting till the very last moment to inform users of the changes so as extract as much subscriptions and micro-transactions from affected users (AIPAC, West Coast USA) as possible.

 

This game peaked with Expansion 4.* because even if you were not a fan of the Knights of the Fallen Empire's Eternal Throne chapters, one could still play the rest of the game while not having to worry about gearing or even being subscribed (i.e. weekly passes).

 

 

EA is riding out their license clock. After the contract is up the money used for licensing the Star Wars brand will be shifted to EA's own titles.

Edited October 8, 2018 by jimmorrisson

[Andryah]

Why settle for something if you can have more? See it become better? Especially if you know the potential is there, if it received the proper means to grow (money, money, money, must be funny, in a rich man's world...)

 

The very essence of MMOs are in fact "settling for what the studio produces and presents". I have never seen an MMO that pleased everyone, nor even a majority of it's players... so you are chasing a unicorn here. MMOs are always a compromise of choices destined to always piss off some fraction of the player base.. no matter what. They simply are not designed to please everyone.

 

As for the "if they would just invest more money, everything would be fine" theorem.... sorry.. this is old tired reused commentary on MMOs in general. What exactly makes you think that if they put more money into this game it would be better and retain more players? There is no evidence to support this view. Even WoW cannot manage to mitigate rapid post expac attrition, much less forum hate about the game even when a new expac drops. Players, collectively speaking, are simply a large conglomeration of different interests, wants, needs, and demands that never agree on anything.. other then "game sucks, fix it now, or else".

 

As a player of many different MMOs over the last two decades.. one thing I learned early on ---> play it for what it is, as long as it satisfies. When it stops satisfying.. play something else. Wishing to be different then it is, is simply a guaranteed outcome of unhappiness.

 

As to your topic here... the fastest way to lose me in this game permanently would be to model it after ESO... in any way.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Andryah

[casirabit]

There is a difference between not enjoying something and wanting to see something you enjoy flourish. I am not complaining that I hate SWTOR, I am expressing an inner desire to see the game that I love so much become successful again. That's what I was talking about when I compared SWTOR to ESO, I am not doing it to bash the former by praising the latter, I am hoping that SWTOR will go down a path that will make it flourish again.

 

Why settle for something if you can have more? See it become better? Especially if you know the potential is there, if it received the proper means to grow (money, money, money, must be funny, in a rich man's world...)

 

What you may like I may hate. That is always going to be a problem, you never going to please everyone. Just like the last expansions, some people enjoyed it, some hated it. Just like this summer they did a lot of pvp stuff and some loved that but others hated it. I didn't play much this summer (logged on about twice a week) due to the fact the only thing I found interesting this summer was the stronghold and I am still decorating our guild one. It will always be a circle with some liking it and some hating it.

Edited October 8, 2018 by casirabit

[Andryah]

What you may like I may hate. That is always going to be a problem, you never going to please everyone. Just like the last expansions, some people enjoyed it, some hated it. Just like this summer they did a lot of pvp stuff and some loved that but others hated it. It will always be a circle with some liking it and some hating it.

 

^^ pretty well sums it up.

 

The core issue for this studio is there are a set of major demographics in any MMO (regardless of which segments may be more populous in any given MMO) ... and they have deliberately chosen to feed some and ignore others with each expac.. and that cuts some players the wrong way, which is why the WoW "big expac with something for everyone" continues to sell well with WoW players.. even though a majority of them will be tired of it in six months and have to take a 2 year break until the next expac drops.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Andryah

[Ylliarus]

What you may like I may hate. That is always going to be a problem, you never going to please everyone. Just like the last expansions, some people enjoyed it, some hated it. Just like this summer they did a lot of pvp stuff and some loved that but others hated it. It will always be a circle with some liking it and some hating it.

 

True enough.

 

Yeah I recognise it was a bit senseless to start this thread because it won't change anything anyway, to begin with. I just want to see SWTOR flourish, that's all but ah well, I'll just return ingame.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Ylliarus

[Andryah]

True enough.

 

Yeah I recognise it was a bit senseless to start this thread because it won't change anything anyway. I just want to see SWTOR flourish, that's all

 

Correct.

 

When discussing MMOs, the term "it is what it is" is very applicable in any given release of an expac. We can wish, even demand, it be different.. but it won't be.

 

Even 4.0.. which was a huge success for the studio, and brought back many players to play it (to the point of having to scramble to reconfigure servers to be larger to avoid login queues) ...... most likely would not be as successful if it were released today. Why? because this game is almost 7 years old now.. and 7 years of anything.. no matter how good it may be... wears people out to the point of wanting something new to do.

 

MMOs are like your local favorite buffet restaurant...... you pay for your meal ticket.. and you can then gobble anything you want, as much as you want. But you know what.. after doing that for years at the same restaurant... most people get tired of even a great buffet, and want something different.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Andryah

[Ylliarus]

Correct.

 

Thanks for the enthusiasm booster.

[Lunafox]

EA has been treating SWTOR like a runt pup for years now. Sadly I don't see that changing so long as EA runs this game. As nice an idea as it would be for them to churn out content for us in the same scale as Bethesda and Zenimax and others, I don't see it happening. I don't even blame the staff, I'm sure they're doing the best they can to make a feast from the crumbs EA gives them.