DarthDymond Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 I realize that making all new boss mechanics takes more design time, but other than that, how are Ops more expensive than a FP like Copero or Nathema? Those are HUGE areas, both perfect for an Operation. I think the payoff on better investment would be more Ops, not FPs. As long as they still include a solo option like the FPs, that sounds good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 As long as they still include a solo option like the FPs, that sounds good to me. Solo OPs is an oxymoron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Solo OPs is an oxymoron. Solo FPs was an oxymoron until they made it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 (edited) Solo FPs was an oxymoron until they made it happen. NO.. because players were soloing FPs long before they did the changes to make actual solo based variants. Reason being FPs were 4 man small group content and good players could duo it with their companion as long as they were 5 or so levels above the FP .... not 8/16 man group content. They had to make actual solo FPs because there was a lot of interest and they were going to undercut the ability to solo old FPs due to introduction of level sync. I get it.. some solo players want solo versions of OPs. Be careful what you wish for.. because what you will get is a gimped OP... with rewards that are gimped to the point where the only reason to run the OP is one time just to see it. Don't believe me? Rift did it... years ago.. and it sucked for the reasons I stated. It was a novelty that quickly wore off when players realized they got inferior drops to what they were already wearing. Edited August 3, 2018 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Solo FPs was an oxymoron until they made it happen. I'd be perfectly fine with solo Ops...far fewer rewards of course, but something to teach players the instance would be a great addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 (edited) what you will get is a gimped OP... with rewards that are gimped to the point where the only reason to run the OP is one time just to see it. That's exactly what the solo option should be, just like the solo option is for FPs now. The difference would be to make the group mode option more robust by having it be an OP instead of just a FP. Same benefit to solo players, expanded benefit to group players. Edited August 3, 2018 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion_Starkiller Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 (edited) For people calling for solo operations, I don't think you have ever done an operation or you would understand that boss fights in an operation are far more complex than a little flashpoint boss, or even a World Boss. (Eternity Vault excluded ofc ) Let's go with the smallest sized operation: 8 man storymode. You know there are TWO tanks for a majority of the fights? The tanks have to taunt off each other so certain instant-kill mechanics don't happen. What about healers? Healers often need to cleanse debuffs from players in an operation, in addition to actually healing the raid. Do healer companions cleanse? What about dps? There are adds that come in during a boss fight. These often need to be dealt with quickly in order to get back to the boss. Let me link you to a couple of guides showing all the mechanics and duties: TFB Operator IX in 8m SM: http://dulfy.net/2012/09/26/operator-ixterror-from-beyond-operation-boss-guide/. Dread Fortress, Commander Draxus SM & HM: http://dulfy.net/2013/09/30/swtor-gate-commander-draxus-dread-fortress-operation-guide/ Now after having read those two guides, can you explain to me how they can make this soloable? This question is for everyone. Please explain to me how to make Draxus and/or Operator IX soloable. I'd love to know. Edited August 3, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 People come back to the game just for the new raids. In most of the guilds I've been in over the years, the inner circle of guilds are the prog raiders. If there are no new raids, the inner circle dies off, then the rest of the guild follows. By not creating new raids in KOTFE KOTET, the devs basically killed multiple guilds root and branch. That's not to say that all guilds are this way, but it's been my experience that small to medium size guilds follow this similar structure. No, there are tons of MMOs with better raids, SWTOR was famous for its story, VA and IP, its raid is good but nowhere close to outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 I agree with you, but at the same time... MMO players expect raid content and have for decades now. So.. even if your MMO is not centered around raiding as a core theme... you still have to do it.. as it is sort of a "loss leader" to keep your player base as broad as possible. Why is that important? Because each facet of the player base helps create the momentum for players sticking around together. When you shut down any major traditional segment of content.. some players get frustrated and leave and that in turn affects the cohesiveness and persistence of players in guilds and players that are friends and group on a less formal basis. Actually, a lot of MMO players do hate raid content in the modern era of MMOs, and there are a lot of former hard core raiders who have largely walked away from raiding as they finally saw it for the treadmill that it is (this includes myself and a lot of members of my guild). I never expect raid at all. If I want raid I would pick tons of other games, even in 2.0 SWTOR's raid was never outstanding. MMO itself is going downhill these years because these large costly content are not attractive anymore. With limited resources, I don't see any reason to throw them to raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion_Starkiller Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 (edited) No, there are tons of MMOs with better raids, SWTOR was famous for its story, VA and IP, its raid is good but nowhere close to outstanding. I don't know what part of my post you are saying "No" to. SWTOR is an MMO and it has raids. Maybe they aren't the best, personally I love them. There are many people that run raids or I don't think the devs would continue to make them. Edited August 3, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 I don't know what part of my post you are saying "No" to. SWTOR is an MMO and it has raids. Maybe they aren't the best, personally I love them. There are many people that run raids or I don't think the devs would continue to make them. Yes it has raids, but it's never famous for its raids. It should never be the focus especially today. There are tons of other games with better raids, even in the 2.0 era which was SWTOR's peak of group content, why did you choose SWTOR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 For people calling for solo operations, I don't think you have ever done an operation or you would understand that boss fights in an operation are far more complex than a little flashpoint boss, or even a World Boss. (Eternity Vault excluded ofc ) Let's go with the smallest sized operation: 8 man storymode. You know there are TWO tanks for a majority of the fights? The tanks have to taunt off each other so certain instant-kill mechanics don't happen. What about healers? Healers often need to cleanse debuffs from players in an operation, in addition to actually healing the raid. Do healer companions cleanse? What about dps? There are adds that come in during a boss fight. These often need to be dealt with quickly in order to get back to the boss. Let me link you to a couple of guides showing all the mechanics and duties: TFB Operator IX in 8m SM: http://dulfy.net/2012/09/26/operator-ixterror-from-beyond-operation-boss-guide/. Dread Fortress, Commander Draxus SM & HM: http://dulfy.net/2013/09/30/swtor-gate-commander-draxus-dread-fortress-operation-guide/ Now after having read those two guides, can you explain to me how they can make this soloable? This question is for everyone. Please explain to me how to make Draxus and/or Operator IX soloable. I'd love to know. I've done all the Ops in this game except for GotM, and plenty of raiding in WoW before then. The idea is that solo mode would completely dumb down the fights, like Andrayah said -- it would just provide a way to see the area and advance the story. Remove group mechanics and make it a straight-forward tank-and-spank, where a companion or jesus-droid can do either part (and healing stations can keep you topped off). If they're feeling really ambitious, they could swap in mechanics from Eternal Championship instead, since those can be solo'd by design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Also I don't think raid fit SW IP. I play a great Jedi/Sith lord, why do I need to make a big group to fight a rancor, a droid or some bounty hunters? Even one of the dev pointed it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 (edited) Also I don't think raid fit SW IP. I play a great Jedi/Sith lord, why do I need to make a big group to fight a rancor, a droid or some bounty hunters? Even one of the dev pointed it out. There are always going to be some concessions to gameplay in any Star Wars game -- that's why lightsabers aren't one-hit kills and smugglers can be competitive with Sith. Edited August 3, 2018 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 There are always going to be some concessions to gameplay in any Star Wars game -- that's why lightsabers aren't one-hit kills and smugglers can be competitive with Sith. But this really feel bad for my character. SW is never about forming big group to fight one big monster, it's either hero's saga(with a few companions at most) or big battle between two sides. WOW's raid style doesn't fit it well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 The strict trinity setting also increased the difficulty of grouping. I don't think it fit SW at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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