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BioWare Midsummer Update


Rion_Starkiller

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You know I'm looking forward to seeing Anthem be the biggest blunder in gaming history. No one wanted it, no one asked for it, and we both know it's going to have all of the normal forced bs that Bioware shoves in all of their games now.

 

Really it would be so nice if Anthem also made EA go under. After that we'd just need Bethesda, Microsoft and Ubisoft to crash and burn and we'd can start to get gaming back on the right track.

 

^^ Primitive tribal vengeance expression. :rolleyes:

 

And... what will you do if it turns out to be a success.. both commercially and with players? :cool:

 

So you want all the big gaming companies to fail. My guess is you should not play games if that is how you truly feel. But if you think this means smalls studios and crowd funded game development will make games get better if the big companies fail..... I think you need to spend some quality time reflecting on the folly of your concept here.

 

You are of course welcome to your own personal feelings... but I it won't give you better games (whatever that may be in your personal view). Like most sensible players... when I do not like a game or the studio that produces it... I simply do not give them my money nor do I play their games. What I do not do is gleefully wish for their failure just because I personally do not like them.

 

Back on topic..... meh... they are just pushing out little "teasers" which is a simple guerilla marketing tactic to generate buzz and discussion around a game. Gamers are so easily trolled by studios.

Edited by Andryah
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Yep.. But name one expansion where Bioware didn't produce story content.. Now do the same for operations. Story will always be part of an MMO.. but it shouldn't be the only part of an MMO.

 

Have a wonderful evening.

The big thing is HOW do you present the story. One time only instance isn't the way, make it repeatable content with achievement to finish,along with daily area/flashpoint would be much better.

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^This. I loved the focus on story that KOTFE/KOTET gave but they really had some great opportunities to tie in other content with KOTFE.

 

As a casual, KotFE is the worst xpc to me.

 

The story has no repeatable value, the forced level sync and blostering ops to top level simply ruined my fun.

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Yep.. But name one expansion where Bioware didn't produce story content.. Now do the same for operations. Story will always be part of an MMO.. but it shouldn't be the only part of an MMO.

 

Have a wonderful evening.

the only time story should be used is to the build up of a raid.

 

that's what made wow and other games great. they build the story up to you and your friends doing a epic raid that yes it should be hard and yes not everyone should be able to do it but it gives everyone a great story at the end. bioware did this with the dread masters and that should be what they are doing now.

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Sound like a coc and bull story to me. Exciting year ever, LMAO. Is this meme supposed to replace Ben’s, RNG is exciting?

 

In the meantime, our Star Wars: The Old Republic team is hard at work on some amazing plans for the coming year, with new features and surprises that I think makes it the game’s most exciting year yet.

 

I think they need to introduce some random drug testing at Bioware :rolleyes:

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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I guess we could also say that there are a lot of MMO that could accomodate players who want group content, so what's the point ?

 

If people want to play this game for its stories and want to play on their own without playing with other people they should just go on another game that has no SW story content ?

 

Wrong, Cause MMO means multiplayer, not solo player. I think that is his point.

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As a casual, KotFE is the worst xpc to me.

 

The story has no repeatable value, the forced level sync and blostering ops to top level simply ruined my fun.

 

Both those expansions that were only solo story focused ruined my date night with my wife because we couldn’t play the content together and both finish. We had to either do it seperately or do it twice (which is boring).

 

I’m all for story as long as we can play as a group and complete it, not have to play a solo story in an MMO. That is not what MMOs are supposed to be about.

Of course you should still be able to play it solo if you choose, but the story should be set up to play as a group if you desire.

 

This is where Bioware went wrong with the last 2 expansions and it’s why they lost so many group content players. Not only did they ignore raiders and pvpers, they ignored the whole premise of group play and the game became a solo game and not an MMO. And we can see how well that worked out.

 

Now they are trying to go back to an MMO model, the solo game guys are getting annoyed because they don’t get as much content as fast. I’m sorry guys, but welcome to the world of MMOs where story content isn’t the only thing and therefore it isn’t churned out as fast or as detailed as a solo player game.

 

The game is first and foremost an MMO. Bioware tried to experiment with single player game expansions and it back fired. They are now back on the MMO track and I’m sorry to say, solo players will have to share and sometimes do without regular content. They now know how raiders have felt for the last 2 expansions and how pvpers have basically felt since launch.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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the only time story should be used is to the build up of a raid.

 

that's what made wow and other games great. they build the story up to you and your friends doing a epic raid that yes it should be hard and yes not everyone should be able to do it but it gives everyone a great story at the end. bioware did this with the dread masters and that should be what they are doing now.

Yeah they did this with the Dread Masters and this is exactly what mostly solo players hate about Oricon and why they never do it...

 

They should make raids yes, but not begin them in solo story to be impossible to finish without grouping, or they should give an option to finish it via a solo story mode too, like they did with SoR. If something starts via the solo story, it should end this way, they can add the possibility to end it via group content too, but not take away from solo player in the middle.

 

I'm fine with the game providing new PvP and raids, as long as they don't try to force me to do that.

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Yeah they did this with the Dread Masters and this is exactly what mostly solo players hate about Oricon and why they never do it...

 

They should make raids yes, but not begin them in solo story to be impossible to finish without grouping, or they should give an option to finish it via a solo story mode too, like they did with SoR. If something starts via the solo story, it should end this way, they can add the possibility to end it via group content too, but not take away from solo player in the middle.

 

I'm fine with the game providing new PvP and raids, as long as they don't try to force me to do that.

 

I agree. I'm a casual raider but I hate when they force you to do group content to finish your personal story, SOR did it right with how you can either do the dailies or the raid. Meaning your story progress isn't locked out behind multiplayer content, which is fun but it can take a while to find a group to do it.

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They should make raids yes, but not begin them in solo story to be impossible to finish without grouping, or they should give an option to finish it via a solo story mode too, like they did with SoR.

 

SoR was the best expansion the game had, it provided it all, operations, flashpoints, new places, dailies, reputation grind, hidden world boss, achievements etc. I was simply an expansion as it should be, thats why I payed extra just for this.

 

They even split the final fight between solo and going on ops!! It was simply great! If 6.0 will be like that then I am really looking forward to it.

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SoR was the best expansion the game had, it provided it all, operations, flashpoints, new places, dailies, reputation grind, hidden world boss, achievements etc. I was simply an expansion as it should be, thats why I payed extra just for this.

 

They even split the final fight between solo and going on ops!! It was simply great! If 6.0 will be like that then I am really looking forward to it.

Yeah, SoR was great and while i'm not thrilled to go back to imp vs pub, if it is as good as SoR, then, i'll be ok with it.

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SoR was the best expansion the game had, it provided it all, operations, flashpoints, new places, dailies, reputation grind, hidden world boss, achievements etc. I was simply an expansion as it should be, thats why I payed extra just for this.
The only place SoR failed was with the difficulty of the Ops. Too few people could beat SM, which made the addition of the 2 new Ops meaningless for the average player - this was before level sync, so only the newest Ops were of 'value', you were 5 levels above all the previous Ops, which made them a breeze. But yeah, other than that, I loved SoR!!! Story, class story, Ops, FPs, Rep, dailies...they did really well with SOR.
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SoR was the best expansion the game had, it provided it all, operations, flashpoints, new places, dailies, reputation grind, hidden world boss, achievements etc. I was simply an expansion as it should be, thats why I payed extra just for this.

 

They even split the final fight between solo and going on ops!! It was simply great! If 6.0 will be like that then I am really looking forward to it.

 

SoR was also the start of a pattern of shenanigans and poor attention to detail by the studio. Exploits left in for months, saying one thing and then doing another with the Cartel Slot Machine, poor OPs balance, absurd and misleading communications, etc.

 

The story arc was great though.

 

I agree if 6.0 goes back to an SoR style approach, that would be a good thing... as long as they do not repeat all the nonsense that came with it.

Edited by Andryah
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Both those expansions that were only solo story focused ruined my date night with my wife because we couldn’t play the content together and both finish. We had to either do it seperately or do it twice (which is boring).

 

I’m all for story as long as we can play as a group and complete it, not have to play a solo story in an MMO. That is not what MMOs are supposed to be about.

Of course you should still be able to play it solo if you choose, but the story should be set up to play as a group if you desire.

 

This is where Bioware went wrong with the last 2 expansions and it’s why they lost so many group content players. Not only did they ignore raiders and pvpers, they ignored the whole premise of group play and the game became a solo game and not an MMO. And we can see how well that worked out.

 

Now they are trying to go back to an MMO model, the solo game guys are getting annoyed because they don’t get as much content as fast. I’m sorry guys, but welcome to the world of MMOs where story content isn’t the only thing and therefore it isn’t churned out as fast or as detailed as a solo player game.

 

The game is first and foremost an MMO. Bioware tried to experiment with single player game expansions and it back fired. They are now back on the MMO track and I’m sorry to say, solo players will have to share and sometimes do without regular content. They now know how raiders have felt for the last 2 expansions and how pvpers have basically felt since launch.

Ppl want content that you can solo but also encourage you to group up for better reward as repeatable content.

 

KotET did better because it at least try to make the story content with repeatable value.

 

The forced level sync and blostering all ops to top level totally ruined my fun. It just didn't work when they try to use such old content to hold ppl and force them to group up again.

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Yeah they did this with the Dread Masters and this is exactly what mostly solo players hate about Oricon and why they never do it...

 

They should make raids yes, but not begin them in solo story to be impossible to finish without grouping, or they should give an option to finish it via a solo story mode too, like they did with SoR. If something starts via the solo story, it should end this way, they can add the possibility to end it via group content too, but not take away from solo player in the middle.

 

I'm fine with the game providing new PvP and raids, as long as they don't try to force me to do that.

 

Raid should never ever be the focus of this game, it doesn't work simply.

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The only place SoR failed was with the difficulty of the Ops. Too few people could beat SM, which made the addition of the 2 new Ops meaningless for the average player - this was before level sync, so only the newest Ops were of 'value', you were 5 levels above all the previous Ops, which made them a breeze. But yeah, other than that, I loved SoR!!! Story, class story, Ops, FPs, Rep, dailies...they did really well with SOR.

 

Same with the Ziost update, the raid encounter was way too hard for casuals.

 

Even now, Ravagers and ToS SM are too tough for many casuals.

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Same with the Ziost update, the raid encounter was way too hard for casuals.

 

Even now, Ravagers and ToS SM are too tough for many casuals.

 

And the studio approach to this was to stop doing OPs.... which made no sense really.

 

My guess is that they lost key staff over time on the OPs team that actually knew how to properly balance the content, and rather then invest in quality replacements.. they simply did what they often do when they fail --> walk away from whatever content type it was they failed on. This studio does have a history of a willingness to experiment with MMO content approaches.... but they seem to lack the persistence to carry through even when things do not go as planned. They throw in the towel too soon and too easily in my view.

 

Then again... many MMO players have constantly criticized SWTOR since launch for weak raiding content, so maybe they thought raising the bar would please said players. Unfortunately these hard core raiders types left the game well before hand..... so they completely misread this segment of the player base and responded too late to retain them... leaving only more casual raiders.. who can and do balk at content they perceive as too difficult.

 

At a macro level.. this MMO has always suffered from a form of identity crisis with MMO players. They did launch class story arcs wonderfully (other then some bugs)... but short changed other forms of content at launch and have been bouncing around putting focus in one or two areas at a time for years... leading to most players feeling let down in one manner or another.

Edited by Andryah
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Wrong, Cause MMO means multiplayer, not solo player. I think that is his point.

Multiple players playing the game, not necessarily multiple players doing raids.

 

If the best BW can do with Ops is five bosses (and only two modes, down from three) in 11 months, maybe they should be looking for other multiplayer options to put those resources towards -- preferably content with both solo and multiplayer options that can push the story forward instead of having it slowed to a fraction of what it was, just for sake of an anemic trickle of new raid content.

Edited by DarthDymond
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And the studio approach to this was to stop doing OPs.... which made no sense really.

 

My guess is that they lost key staff over time on the OPs team that actually knew how to properly balance the content, and rather then invest in quality replacements.. they simply did what they often do when they fail --> walk away from whatever content type it was they failed on. This studio does have a history of a willingness to experiment with MMO content approaches.... but they seem to lack the persistence to carry through even when things do not go as planned. They throw in the towel too soon and too easily in my view.

 

Then again... many MMO players have constantly criticized SWTOR since launch for weak raiding content, so maybe they thought raising the bar would please said players. Unfortunately these hard core raiders types left the game well before hand..... so they completely misread this segment of the player base and responded too late to retain them... leaving only more casual raiders.. who can and do balk at content they perceive as too difficult.

 

At a macro level.. this MMO has always suffered from a form of identity crisis with MMO players. They did launch class story arcs wonderfully (other then some bugs)... but short changed other forms of content at launch and have been bouncing around putting focus in one or two areas at a time for years... leading to most players feeling let down in one manner or another.

Because raid ops cost more to make, if not enough players are attracted then no.

 

Raid itself isn't as popular as it was years before, and this game has never been famous for its raid. It's reasonable that they made less raid, but blostering old ones to top level was garbage.

 

Ppl don't hate raid content itself, they hate all the effort that cost to form a team.

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Multiple players playing the game, not necessarily multiple players doing raids.

 

If the best BW can do with Ops is five bosses (and only two modes, down from three) in 11 months, maybe they should be looking for other multiplayer options to put those resources towards -- preferably content with both solo and multiplayer options that can push the story forward instead of having it slowed to a fraction of what it was, just for sake of an anemic trickle of new raid content.

 

Yes, group content doesn't = raid.

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Multiple players playing the game, not necessarily multiple players doing raids.

 

If the best BW can do with Ops is five bosses (and only two modes, down from three) in 11 months, maybe they should be looking for other multiplayer options to put those resources towards -- preferably content with both solo and multiplayer options that can push the story forward instead of having it slowed to a fraction of what it was, just for sake of an anemic trickle of new raid content.

 

My point was MMO Group content. I don't think it should be the only content, but story content always comes with new expansions. Have never seen one that didn't.

That being said while I dislike how slow and few bosses GoTM had.. I will say I think it is some of the best OPs content that they have released. Izax's and Nahut are my absolute favorite fights in this game. I appreciate the time, effort and detail that they put into it.

 

In my opinion any new expansion should contain the following over a progression of time

3 Operations minimum with at least 15 bosses total across them with varying degrees of difficulty (SM, HM, NiM)

5 to 7 new flashpoints with varying degrees of difficulty with at least 4 bosses each. (Solo, Vet, MM)

3 to 4 new pvp maps for unranked play

4 to 5 new pvp maps for ranked play

A story that covers at least 10 levels of advancement crossing many different zones with lots of offshoot stories that culminate with an decent ending that wraps up the story lines. I prefer the vanilla style story in this game in that the story changes based on the class you choose to play. The replayability factor of this content should be the highest priority.

 

Each #.x should add to story etc.. If we don't get an operation we should be getting pvp goodies (and I don't pvp)..

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Because raid ops cost more to make, if not enough players are attracted then no.

 

Raid itself isn't as popular as it was years before, and this game has never been famous for its raid. It's reasonable that they made less raid, but blostering old ones to top level was garbage.

 

Ppl don't hate raid content itself, they hate all the effort that cost to form a team.

 

People come back to the game just for the new raids. In most of the guilds I've been in over the years, the inner circle of guilds are the prog raiders. If there are no new raids, the inner circle dies off, then the rest of the guild follows. By not creating new raids in KOTFE KOTET, the devs basically killed multiple guilds root and branch.

 

That's not to say that all guilds are this way, but it's been my experience that small to medium size guilds follow this similar structure.

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Because raid ops cost more to make.
I realize that making all new boss mechanics takes more design time, but other than that, how are Ops more expensive than a FP like Copero or Nathema? Those are HUGE areas, both perfect for an Operation. I think the payoff on better investment would be more Ops, not FPs.
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Because raid ops cost more to make, if not enough players are attracted then no.

 

Raid itself isn't as popular as it was years before, and this game has never been famous for its raid. It's reasonable that they made less raid, but blostering old ones to top level was garbage.

 

Ppl don't hate raid content itself, they hate all the effort that cost to form a team.

 

I agree with you, but at the same time... MMO players expect raid content and have for decades now. So.. even if your MMO is not centered around raiding as a core theme... you still have to do it.. as it is sort of a "loss leader" to keep your player base as broad as possible. Why is that important? Because each facet of the player base helps create the momentum for players sticking around together. When you shut down any major traditional segment of content.. some players get frustrated and leave and that in turn affects the cohesiveness and persistence of players in guilds and players that are friends and group on a less formal basis.

 

Actually, a lot of MMO players do hate raid content in the modern era of MMOs, and there are a lot of former hard core raiders who have largely walked away from raiding as they finally saw it for the treadmill that it is (this includes myself and a lot of members of my guild).

Edited by Andryah
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My point was MMO Group content. I don't think it should be the only content, but story content always comes with new expansions. Have never seen one that didn't.

That being said while I dislike how slow and few bosses GoTM had.. I will say I think it is some of the best OPs content that they have released. Izax's and Nahut are my absolute favorite fights in this game. I appreciate the time, effort and detail that they put into it.

 

In my opinion any new expansion should contain the following over a progression of time

3 Operations minimum with at least 15 bosses total across them with varying degrees of difficulty (SM, HM, NiM)

5 to 7 new flashpoints with varying degrees of difficulty with at least 4 bosses each. (Solo, Vet, MM)

3 to 4 new pvp maps for unranked play

4 to 5 new pvp maps for ranked play

A story that covers at least 10 levels of advancement crossing many different zones with lots of offshoot stories that culminate with an decent ending that wraps up the story lines. I prefer the vanilla style story in this game in that the story changes based on the class you choose to play. The replayability factor of this content should be the highest priority.

 

Each #.x should add to story etc.. If we don't get an operation we should be getting pvp goodies (and I don't pvp)..

I would love to see an expansion cycle that offered all of that content, but at this point it's pretty much a pipe dream -- it has been clear for years now that this game is not supported enough to have anywhere near that output capacity.

 

I like some of the steps they've taken to try to "do more with less" (e.g. advancing the story through FPs that then become repeatable group content; the Rishi Stronghold providing something for both player housing and PVP), and if they can figure out some novel approaches that satisfy multiple player segments, including raiders, that would be great. But there are still likely to be some "either / or" decisions that need to be made.

Edited by DarthDymond
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