Holocron Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Dear Devs, please allow publicly listed Rishi strongholds to allow any player to access the the pvp terminals without the need of a bronze key. When publicly listed we are wanting to get people to visit the stronghold, and see/use all of the hard work you put into it. Not being able to use the pvp portion of the stronghold is a huge disincentive for random people/groups to visit, and it is unlikely that you will be around at the right time to hand out bronze keys. Please consider this change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTricicolo Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) Dear Devs, please allow publicly listed Rishi strongholds to allow any player to access the the pvp terminals without the need of a bronze key. When publicly listed we are wanting to get people to visit the stronghold, and see/use all of the hard work you put into it. Not being able to use the pvp portion of the stronghold is a huge disincentive for random people/groups to visit, and it is unlikely that you will be around at the right time to hand out bronze keys. Please consider this change. You usually post things I favor but this I'd have to disagree with. Visiting a publicly listed stronghold is fine if they want to look around however giving them access to pvp terminals without a bronze key could, and more than likely would, lead to schmucks taking advantage of that privilege by grieving other players. A key, at least for me, means you're trusted not to do stupid things like that! Edited July 30, 2018 by TonyTricicolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holocron Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 You usually post things I favor but this I'd have to disagree with. Visiting a publicly listed stronghold is fine if they want to look around however giving them access to pvp terminals without a bronze key could, and more than likely would, lead to schmucks taking advantage of that privilege by grieving other players. A key, at least for me, means you're trusted not to do stupid things like that! Yeah but how bad could they really grief people? I have a few fully decorated public strongholds, and I'm lucky if one or two people even come to it in the course of a day/week, if at all. The new Rishi one all of sudden gave people a purpose to visit again. Imagine someone finds a awesome Rishi stronghold with a great pvp area, so they tell their buddies to show up and they have some matches. Word spreads and yours becomes the hot ticket to visit. Now, that won't be possible with the rule of having bronze keys. So we are back to square one. Where basically it's just you or the people you know who will get to enjoy your hard work, but not anyone new or random. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishpeople Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Can you complete the pvp missions with the Rishi Stronghold? If not, then other than maybe the occasional gathering of friends or clan members I don't think it'll be popular for long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTricicolo Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) Yeah but how bad could they really grief people? I have a few fully decorated public strongholds, and I'm lucky if one or two people even come to it in the course of a day/week, if at all. The new Rishi one all of sudden gave people a purpose to visit again. Imagine someone finds a awesome Rishi stronghold with a great pvp area, so they tell their buddies to show up and they have some matches. Word spreads and yours becomes the hot ticket to visit. Now, that won't be possible with the rule of having bronze keys. So we are back to square one. Where basically it's just you or the people you know who will get to enjoy your hard work, but not anyone new or random. Yea, okay, then if players find a truly spectacular stronghold worth boasting about then why don't they contact the owner to arrange more than a visit? I equate that to letting someone come to your house, hang out, watch tv, make a sandwich, do laundry and sleep with my wife with out my permission. Wanna chill? Ya gotta wine and dine me first! LOL Edited July 30, 2018 by TonyTricicolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xordevoreaux Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Dear Devs, please allow publicly listed Rishi strongholds to allow any player to access the the pvp terminals without the need of a bronze key. When publicly listed we are wanting to get people to visit the stronghold, and see/use all of the hard work you put into it. Not being able to use the pvp portion of the stronghold is a huge disincentive for random people/groups to visit, and it is unlikely that you will be around at the right time to hand out bronze keys. Please consider this change. Dear Devs: Please ignore that suggestion. Bad idea. If I want someone using the facilities in my house, I'll permit them myself, private or public regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightSaberAddiCt Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Dear Devs: Please ignore that suggestion. Bad idea. If I want someone using the facilities in my house, I'll permit them myself, private or public regardless. What harm could powsibly come from allowing people to use terminals without a key? Or storage, or legacy storage etc? Not like they can take your stuff. I have no problem with it, sounds like a good suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) Yea, okay, then if players find a truly spectacular stronghold worth boasting about then why don't they contact the owner to arrange more than a visit? I equate that to letting someone come to your house, hang out, watch tv, make a sandwich, do laundry and sleep with my wife with out my permission. Wanna chill? Ya gotta wine and dine me first! LOL This. The access to PvP should be decided only by the SH owner. If someone wants to PvP in the stronghold they can ask the owner for a key. Letting people come see how you've decorated isn't inviting them to use your stronghold for their recreation time. Also, if using the PvP terminals is allowed for anyone accessing the strongholds, it is probably a surefire guarantee that non-PvPers - some of whom are great decorators - will not list their SHs. Nobody wants to be attacked in their own stronghold or have other visitors getting ganked and that's what would happen. It could also potentially interfere with PvPers because strangers could interfere with matches, end them early, etc. Edited July 30, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holocron Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 This. The access to PvP should be decided only by the SH owner. If someone wants to PvP in the stronghold they can ask the owner for a key. Letting people come see how you've decorated isn't inviting them to use your stronghold for their recreation time. Also, if using the PvP terminals is allowed for anyone accessing the strongholds, it is probably a surefire guarantee that non-PvPers - some of whom are great decorators - will not list their SHs. Nobody wants to be attacked in their own stronghold or have other visitors getting ganked and that's what would happen. It could also potentially interfere with PvPers because strangers could interfere with matches, end them early, etc. Then what's the point of listing it publicly if you don't want visitors to come by and enjoy your handy work? And if anyone was being a butt, all you have to do is ban them and they instantly go poof. I really don't get the mentality of listing something for public consumption, only to claim that the public then needs to seek you out for the participation aspect that was meant to bring people to come around in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTricicolo Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) Personally, I declare my Tatooine Homestead public because I want people to see how nice I decorated it. With Rishi, it would be for the same reason. If a visitor wants to engage in pvp while I'm there, then I'd consider it Edited July 30, 2018 by TonyTricicolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) Then what's the point of listing it publicly if you don't want visitors to come by and enjoy your handy work? And if anyone was being a butt, all you have to do is ban them and they instantly go poof. I really don't get the mentality of listing something for public consumption, only to claim that the public then needs to seek you out for the participation aspect that was meant to bring people to come around in the first place. The 'handiwork' is the decorating. Not the PvP ring. Listing a SH publicly doesn't mean you want someone you don't know PvPing there or using it to grief other players. The Rishi stronghold isn't just for PvPers. It's really not a hard concept. The analogy given above holds water. If you visit someone over to your home one night does that mean you're giving them carte blanche to come over whenever they want, use your Internet, eat all the food in your fridge, etc. Inviting people to see how cleverly you've used the hooks in your stronghold doesn't mean you're extending an invite for them to use it as their own. Edited July 30, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xordevoreaux Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 So if you walk into your publicly listed stronghold, and there's a group in there using your PVP stuff, and you got there with your friends because you wanted to use the PVP stuff in your stronghold right then, do you be a butt and kick out the people who were only in your stronghold because you left the door open? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phalczen Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Holocron, I’m pretty sure the restriction exists so a random person or maker forbid a griefer doesn’t pop into a stronghold and interfere with a match. People aren’t going to wander into strongholds looking for random “open world (open SH?)” PvP any more often than they wander into Outlaws Den, or go to the PvP instance for something other than a world boss spawn. If you can show me how your suggestion won’t facilitate griefing, maybe I could be persuaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holocron Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 So if you walk into your publicly listed stronghold, and there's a group in there using your PVP stuff, and you got there with your friends because you wanted to use the PVP stuff in your stronghold right then, do you be a butt and kick out the people who were only in your stronghold because you left the door open? Might be a great opportunity to join together and have even more fun pvp, and make new friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xordevoreaux Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Might be a great opportunity to join together and have even more fun pvp, and make new friends. More like GET OFF MY LAWN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holocron Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 The 'handiwork' is the decorating. Not the PvP ring. Listing a SH publicly doesn't mean you want someone you don't know PvPing there or using it to grief other players. The Rishi stronghold isn't just for PvPers. It's really not a hard concept. The analogy given above holds water. If you visit someone over to your home one night does that mean you're giving them carte blanche to come over whenever they want, use your Internet, eat all the food in your fridge, etc. Inviting people to see how cleverly you've used the hooks in your stronghold doesn't mean you're extending an invite for them to use it as their own. This is not real life. There is nothing in your digital house that they can do to you. And you listing it publicly is an invitation for people to come there. Why would it matter if they pvp there at all. And let's be honest here, it's not like many people are going to show up to these strongholds anyway, so why deter even the least amount of them, thus further keeping the status of strongholds pointless. The very very rare instance someone could even grief would just be met with a ban from the stronghold, or at worse drive away the few people that showed up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishpeople Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Might be a great opportunity to join together and have even more fun pvp, and make new friends. I'm 90 to 95% sure it'll end in trash talking and the owner kicking out said attacker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holocron Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 More like GET OFF MY LAWN But then why put a sign on your lawn saying "all welcome here"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) This is not real life. There is nothing in your digital house that they can do to you. And you listing it publicly is an invitation for people to come there. Why would it matter if they pvp there at all. And let's be honest here, it's not like many people are going to show up to these strongholds anyway, so why deter even the least amount of them, thus further keeping the status of strongholds pointless. The very very rare instance someone could even grief would just be met with a ban from the stronghold, or at worse drive away the few people that showed up there. One more time: not everyone buying the Rishi stronghold likes PvP or wants it there. Inviting people over doesn't mean I want them brawling in my living room. There's no deterrent to visiting for those of us who aren't interested in PvP at all or would rather PvP with their, you know, actual invited friends or guilds instead of randos. If BW opens PvP to everyone and SH owners don't have control over who can access their terminals, I'd bet money that people just won't list their SHs. It's that simple. The controls were on one of the most asked-for things on the PTS forums by both PvPers and non. Edited July 30, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xordevoreaux Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 I'm sure there's been enough push-back on this idea in this thread that the devs will just skip it and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) Visiting a publicly listed stronghold is fine if they want to look around however giving them access to pvp terminals without a bronze key could, and more than likely would, lead to schmucks taking advantage of that privilege by grieving other players. A key, at least for me, means you're trusted not to do stupid things like that! ^^ Exactly this. The request would simply allow griefers to camp your SH to.... grief. Edited July 30, 2018 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunafox Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) Maybe what they could do is provide ticky boxes with options, like... 1) Private (closed to everyone but owner and friends with keys) 2) Public (open to everyone but only SH owner and key owners only can operate gates etc) 3)Free (free for all--everyone allowed in, anyone allowed to operate gates etc.) As a non pvper, I hate the idea of people coming in and doing whatever they want. I see the potential for a lot of problems if they make it free for all without the owners imput. Having options like the ones above, let people enjoy their strongholds as they want. Edited July 30, 2018 by Lunafox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) Maybe what they could do is provide ticky boxes with options, like... 1) Private (closed to everyone but owner and friends with keys) 2) Public (PVP owner and key owners only) 3)Free (free for all) As a non pvper, I hate the idea of people coming in and doing whatever they want. I see the potential for a lot of problems if they make it free for all without the owners imput. Having options like the ones above, let people enjoy their strongholds as they want. As long as the default setting prohibits FREE access.... I don't see a big issue with this suggestion. And OP would have been better off to have made your suggestion, rather then his wide reaching demand. Makes me wonder if he wants this so he can be a SH squatter/griefer ... /shrug. But you know what... if they did... I bet the OP would be back complaining about "bad behaviors" by others in their stronghold and demanding the studio do something about it... and other players as well.. as soon as the griefers set up camp in their SH. Edited July 30, 2018 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunafox Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) As long as the default setting prohibits FREE access.... I don't see a big issue with this suggestion. And OP would have been better off to have made your suggestion, rather then his wide reaching demand. Makes me wonder if he wants this so he can be a SH squatter/griefer ... /shrug. But you know what... if they did... I bet the OP would be back complaining about "bad behaviors" by others in their stronghold and demanding the studio do something about it... and other players as well.. as soon as the griefers set up camp in their SH. True, griefers are fine with griefing, until they themselves get griefed. I also edited the suggestion a bit to make it more clear about what I had in mind for a compromise. Edited July 30, 2018 by Lunafox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PennyAnn Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 (edited) It's fine to make requests like this, honestly. But you all have serious expectation problems. The studio is obviously very limited in what they can produce and how quickly, and "little" additions like this one take work and testing and just delay the ability to release content on time. Sometimes those delays are worthwhile - as a majority of the "we want a house" folks would tell you about Rishi. But ask the Ranked PvP people how they feel about it and it's frustrating to have to wait even longer in an already ridiculously long season to be able to move on. Plus, the developers cannot make one rule for keys to private strongholds that wouldn't also apply to Guild strongholds. And remember that every single guild member has a Bronze key to the Guild stronghold the second that they join. Add to this that a ton of the Guild strongholds are publicly listed in addition, and you're asking for rules to applied to everybody that you want to have just for YOUR personal stronghold. Now add that the effort to then make rulings based on public listing/not public listing would take even more developer time to tweak and essentially rework (again!) the way this PvP toggle was designed. EDIT: Luna's suggestion is decent, but again... developer time! Delays! Testing! This is not a small request. Then there's the "I can't control the PvP in my own stronghold" factor. If everyone can kick it off, you've lost your say in what happens there. Even for those who LIKE PvP and intend to use their stronghold for that, trust me - it will get annoying. It's akin to having the Cartel Slot Machine in your stronghold, and especially when they first came out and were very popular. If you had them in your publicly listed stronghold, 99.9% of the time you'd find people in there using them even if YOU wanted to use them, and it's YOUR stronghold! So now you're gonna be the jerk who kicks people out just so you can use it yourself? It is also wholly different to using someone's Legacy Banks, GTN, etc. in their stronghold - to be able to set it so you (the visitor) can actually attack and kill someone in their own stronghold? And that person (the owner) not be able to do anything (like ban you) until after the fact? Yeah, that's not a great set up. This is just a bad idea for a lot of reasons, just some of which I have listed here. Limiting the toggle to silver and gold keys only should be the goal, in my opinion. In this way, both personal and guild strongholds have some control over who can/cannot set PvP in motion, there is much less chance for ganking and griefing, and if you have an amazing stronghold that people want to PvP in, it won't be that tough to get in touch with you to get a key. Lots of people did it with my strongholds to use the slot machines (and still do!). . Edited July 30, 2018 by PennyAnn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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