Does anyone actually like the Odessen WZ?

[Rafiknoll]

But at least with the other two, you can see what’s going on around you and sometimes rally a couple of people to help you. In Odessen, people can’t see if someone is actually trying and just go with the flow.

I lead by example and I can turn matches around when people see me trying and decide we might have a chance. But I can’t do that in Odessen because no one sees what you are trying to do. It’s why it’s so frustrating for me.

I can single handily win HB for my team, I’ve done it many times. You can’t do that in Odessen.

 

I get the "lead by example" thingie, but that works on clueless people, not those who made up their mind that they already intend to deathmatch, in which case, all 3 warzones are all the same - you are alone. Soloing Odessen is harder than soloing AHG which is harder than soloing huttball but all 3 can be done as long as the same condition exists: number of objective players in their team isn't far better than yours.

 

Coming to think of it, I suspect that the fact that Odessen might be the hardest to solo is why good objective players often mistake it for being unfairly RNG dependant. When only 1-2 players on each side are trying, they can't cover the whole map efficiently and then RNG becomes a factor (it wouldn't if they had their whole team play with them). The "fairness" gap naturally becomes even greater when the number of objective players on the opposition is greater than their number in your group.

 

Add to that the fact that kill-farmers are most probable to have absolutely zero objective contribution on this map, unlike any other map, which again means that the few objective players matter more and as long as there are only a few objective players then RNG counts and once the team with the better numbers (which totally don't matter) lose, people scream "RNG map sucks" and conclude that this map is badly designed. It isn't, the crowd is badly designed, and the crowd is ought to fix themselves.

 

Hopefully, the kill farmers will choose OPG as the map they don't want to pop (because it is too big to farm well). I suggest that once 5.9.2 hits, the objective players who seem to currently hate OPG don't uncheck it immediately but instead give another try to playing the map properly objectively as a (nearly) full group. The experience will be by far different.

[TrixxieTriss]

Coming to think of it, I suspect that the fact that Odessen might be the hardest to solo is why good objective players often mistake it for being unfairly RNG dependant. When only 1-2 players on each side are trying, they can't cover the whole map efficiently and then RNG becomes a factor (it wouldn't if they had their whole team play with them). The "fairness" gap naturally becomes even greater when the number of objective players on the opposition is greater than their number in your group.

 

Add to that the fact that kill-farmers are most probable to have absolutely zero objective contribution on this map, unlike any other map, which again means that the few objective players matter more and as long as there are only a few objective players then RNG counts and once the team with the better numbers (which totally don't matter) lose, people scream "RNG map sucks" and conclude that this map is badly designed. It isn't, the crowd is badly designed, and the crowd is ought to fix themselves.

 

Hopefully, the kill farmers will choose OPG as the map they don't want to pop (because it is too big to farm well). I suggest that once 5.9.2 hits, the objective players who seem to currently hate OPG don't uncheck it immediately but instead give another try to playing the map properly objectively as a (nearly) full group. The experience will be by far different.

 

That pretty much sums up why I hate Odessen and why I leave.

 

Do we have confirmation we will be able to “uncheck” maps when we queue? Or is this still a maybe?

[Rafiknoll]

That pretty much sums up why I hate Odessen and why I leave.

 

Do we have confirmation we will be able to “uncheck” maps when we queue? Or is this still a maybe?

 

Odd, I am quite sure I saw it at some time but I couldn't find the post in which Eric said that.

 

Regardless, I wouldn't quit the match before my team had the chance to show me how they play. Quitting on the start might make you miss great games (the fact that it is hardest to solo makes it the most satisfying to play as a team, in the times you happen to get a good group), and it also increases your chances to backfill for the exact same game when you requeue.

 

Sometimes I get the feeling that the only way to get everyone to play slightly objectively is to put arena-acid everywhere irrelevant on the map... I really hope the new SH will divert this kind of players out of OPVP (alternatively they could learn to GSF in which half matches are deathmatches and even domination requires 95% combat to win )

Edited July 4, 2018 by Rafiknoll

[Seelvir]

Odessan is my favorite WZ, by far.

 

Maybe I should rephrase my OP.

 

How many of you like Odessen when your team won’t try and win?

 

I find it infuriating as I hate losing pvp matches for no reason.

 

I really enjoy this challenge. It's a map where 1 smart player can make a HUGE difference. I've won maps where I ended the map with 14-15k objective points and the next closest teammate on the list was at like 3k defensive points. Odessan is the bomb.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Add to that the fact that kill-farmers are most probable to have absolutely zero objective contribution on this map, unlike any other map, which again means that the few objective players matter more and as long as there are only a few objective players then RNG counts and once the team with the better numbers (which totally don't matter) lose, people scream "RNG map sucks" and conclude that this map is badly designed. It isn't, the crowd is badly designed, and the crowd is ought to fix themselves.

 

Hopefully, the kill farmers will choose OPG as the map they don't want to pop (because it is too big to farm well).

 

My guess is that kill farming became a thing with the introduction of Arenas.

Because in Arenas, there are no objectives.

And that Arena players will quit everything that's objective play.

[TrixxieTriss]

My guess is that kill farming became a thing with the introduction of Arenas.

Because in Arenas, there are no objectives.

And that Arena players will quit everything that's objective play.

 

Agreed.

 

Arena was the worst thing for objective pvp. If they’d kept ranked objective pvp instead of getting rid of it, maybe we wouldn’t have seen such a decline

[Banderal]

Odd, I am quite sure I saw it at some time but I couldn't find the post in which Eric said that.

 

I saw it originally in the "Summer roadmap" post from Keith. He said, "We’re also exploring giving unranked players more queue control over which Warzones and Arenas they want to play." It's up on Dulfy here... http://dulfy.net/2018/05/17/swtor-summer-roadmap-2018/

 

But then there was a list of bullet points from a dev interview in June where they reportedly said, "Not going to allow players to choose which warzones they q for, due to slowing down the q's"... http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=950268

 

So we've gotten slightly mixed messages, with the "bad" one being the most recent info I've seen.

 

[Edit: granted, "more queue control", and "players to choose" are not 100% the same thing... so I still foolishly hold out hope that they might do something that will give us "more control", even if it isn't to completely let us choose which WZs. Say, unchecking one or two WZs would be nice, and I would not call that "letting us choose which one we want". But who knows...]

Edited July 4, 2018 by Banderal

[Rafiknoll]

I saw it originally in the "Summer roadmap" post from Keith. He said, "We’re also exploring giving unranked players more queue control over which Warzones and Arenas they want to play." It's up on Dulfy here... http://dulfy.net/2018/05/17/swtor-summer-roadmap-2018/

 

But then there was a list of bullet points from a dev interview in June where they reportedly said, "Not going to allow players to choose which warzones they q for, due to slowing down the q's"... http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=950268

 

So we've gotten slightly mixed messages, with the "bad" one being the most recent info I've seen.

 

[Edit: granted, "more queue control", and "players to choose" are not 100% the same thing... so I still foolishly hold out hope that they might do something that will give us "more control", even if it isn't to completely let us choose which WZs. Say, unchecking one or two WZs would be nice, and I would not call that "letting us choose which one we want". But who knows...]

 

Thanks, that's exactly what I was referring to, and your conclusion about being able to uncheck 1-2 maps is same as mine. Here's hoping...

[TrixxieTriss]

Thanks, that's exactly what I was referring to, and your conclusion about being able to uncheck 1-2 maps is same as mine. Here's hoping...

 

I thinks it’s a wait and see what’s on the PTS.

 

Isn’t that supposed to be turned on this week?

[Nyla]

Maybe I should rephrase my OP.

 

How many of you like Odessen when your team won’t try and win?

 

I find it infuriating as I hate losing pvp matches for no reason.

…

 

I still like the map, I just hate the players but I try to stay positive.

 

Being negative/quitting just add another toxic layer so I try to write 2/3 messages in chat to remind people of the power-ups, to give a few directives. It doesn't work 9 times out of 10 but I still try to do my best. Still feels better to finish a wz knowing I tried than giving up early because of the not willing/not capable ones..

[TrixxieTriss]

I still like the map, I just hate the players but I try to stay positive.

 

Being negative/quitting just add another toxic layer so I try to write 2/3 messages in chat to remind people of the power-ups, to give a few directives. It doesn't work 9 times out of 10 but I still try to do my best. Still feels better to finish a wz knowing I tried than giving up early because of the not willing/not capable ones..

 

I just leave as soon as I pop in so the team can get a back fill before the match starts. I don’t think that’s being toxic. But me staying and getting frustrated could easily lead to toxic. Better for everyone if I leave before that happens.

[Rafiknoll]

But me staying and getting frustrated could easily lead to toxic. Better for everyone if I leave before that happens.

 

Knowing yourself and acting preemptively is noble. But knowing yourself, staying and resisting the urge of toxicity is admirable. I would suggest you take your chances from time to time. Half my Odessens are amazing games.

[Nyla]

I just leave as soon as I pop in so the team can get a back fill before the match starts. I don’t think that’s being toxic. But me staying and getting frustrated could easily lead to toxic. Better for everyone if I leave before that happens.

 

I agree, I meant players that quit after a few minutes when things don't go their way.

I always prefer people leaving early than people staying but not really trying anymore and/or becoming toxic, finally leaving near the end which doesn't give enough time for the backfiller to do something useful.

[Labranth]

I hate it because it's WASD yolo adventure

[westcoastmos]

It's my favourite. Seriously.

 

 

 

This is exactly one of the points why I acztually like it. You never know whom you'll meet around the next corner.

You might even come away with not meeting anyone.

 

It’s probably my favorite as well along with voidstar. Huttball is too iffy and the civil wars involve too many people trying to cap the other node and giving up mid.

[westcoastmos]

I excel at OPG

 

I am often the one with the highest or second highest objective score, simply because I shockingly only play the objectives. It is the only map where fighting is (mostly) the antithesis of winning.

 

Me too. I will say though, fighting is important because too many people allow the enemy to take nodes without a fight. I find that there is always a fight if you’re looking for one.

[westcoastmos]

It is my favorite map. And when on pub side, since I'd ONLY play cross faction maps, it is even more vital. Now, when cross faction is on all maps then I'd play any map on pubs, but this will still be my fav map even on imps. I hate butt-ball maps in general.

 

This map is not perfect though, there is a few major flaws that should be fixed that would make it much better:

 

1.) get rid of insta-kills by bumping someone off of the ledge. Thats weak, why have pvp if you do not need to actually use PvP skills to get a kill, really. (And yes I think butt-ball fire should be lowered in damage too).

2.) Sniper shouldn't be able to insta-cancel a node w/o any real viable defense against it. Quite possibly the dumbest thing in any pvp encounter I've ever seen on any game in the history of gaming.

3.) You should not be ABLE to cancel your own node. Occasional cheating goes on with this, see 2 guildies on the other team and you start canceling your own teams nodes. No defense against that either, so dumb.

 

Agreed. I had a teammate shutdown our node and we lost and I was like ***?

[westcoastmos]

Maybe I should rephrase my OP.

 

How many of you like Odessen when your team won’t try and win?

 

I find it infuriating as I hate losing pvp matches for no reason.

 

Especially when I am actually good at the tactics in the map and can nearly always get the colour mod we need during the match. If we need a green to pull a head I will grab one, if we need blue or orange I can get one. The only one I try to never get is red.

 

How many times does the match starts and the Sth and Mid nodes open first and your whole team runs north for no reason?

And on the way to going and getting the green mod, some dumb Assassin runs through it and picks up a red one, just so they can get it and you can’t?

 

I hate the map because it’s too difficult () for the majority of noobs to figure out. Maybe if I had people on my team like most of you guys who understand the map, I would enjoy it more. But I rarely do and it makes for either a really boring match or one that is so frustrating that I don’t want to help them and just want to lose faster by hiding in a corner (which I don’t do).

 

I find it extremely difficult to not try and play the objectives in maps. I don’t know why, but I just can’t let go and do whatever like everyone else seems to do. It doesn’t matter what map it is, if it’s objective based, I will play them. I feel if I don’t and we lose, then I’m partly to blame.

 

I know a lot of people don’t like Hutt Ball, but it’s my favourite map (when it’s no glitching or overly bugged). All I need is a few people on the team to help me try and win and I can carry most teams. It doesn’t even matter what class I’m on, I will always play the ball. I often score most or all of the goals for our team and sometimes do really low damage. I basically carry the whole team for a win and then get no votes cause I didn’t do a mil dps.

 

Hutt Ball it’s also like Odessen. If people don’t try to win, you can’t win it by yourself unless the other team is just as stupid. Which is why I think some people hate it so much because people don’t try to win. Yes it glitches and that’s another reason to hate it, but if it didn’t glitch or bug out, I think more people would like it.

 

Well said.

[westcoastmos]

I still like the map, I just hate the players but I try to stay positive.

 

Being negative/quitting just add another toxic layer so I try to write 2/3 messages in chat to remind people of the power-ups, to give a few directives. It doesn't work 9 times out of 10 but I still try to do my best. Still feels better to finish a wz knowing I tried than giving up early because of the not willing/not capable ones..

 

I try to write messages prior to match start as well if only to foster commas during the match.

[Bullyabass]

Its no worse than any others and any wz is bad if your team aren't playing objectives. Watching your entire team disappearing to mid on hypergate when they havent even capped a node is tiresome as well.

 

Though I notice people don't call much on Odessen for some reason. Every other map people will call incoming but Odessen everyone stays quiet. Maybe they dont know what to call the nodes.

 

People get triggered that it is random who wins. Boosts and random node spawns usually massively favour one team but most wzs are determined by premades, healers and class fit. All of which are randomly determined before you even start the game.

 

The idea that one player can turn a game, unless they are exceptional, is a joke. Or that you can grab a specific boost, its random.

[TmoneyTime]

I've noticed that the people who hate proving grounds tend to be tunnel vision players who think they're good because they did 3.5 mil damage at the end of a match where they lost spectacularly because they're incapable of playing objectives.

 

Proving Grounds is great. It requires strategy and intelligent use of class abilities to quickly move around the map to attack/defend keypoints which change, every round. It's a good match type and I have no problems with it. If you just want a mindless killing spree, the ranked queue can always use more people to get pops a little faster. If you're not playing arenas, you shouldn't expect to rewarded just for mashing Massacre, all match long.

 

Final advice to all haters: git gud & lern 2 playy

 

I tend to think people that can't even pull off 2k dps is the reason why pvp is so one sided. They can't win pvp because they don't know the first thing about mechanics and how to play a class. People like you get 3 caped and blame in on their team being bad. Killing players lead to objective that leads to wins.

Edited July 5, 2018 by TmoneyTime

[septru]

I've noticed that the people who hate proving grounds tend to be tunnel vision players who think they're good because they did 3.5 mil damage at the end of a match where they lost spectacularly because they're incapable of playing objectives.

 

Proving Grounds is great. It requires strategy and intelligent use of class abilities to quickly move around the map to attack/defend keypoints which change, every round. It's a good match type and I have no problems with it. If you just want a mindless killing spree, the ranked queue can always use more people to get pops a little faster. If you're not playing arenas, you shouldn't expect to rewarded just for mashing Massacre, all match long.

 

Final advice to all haters: git gud & lern 2 playy

 

I love Oddesen Proving Grounds too because it is by far the stupidest warzone every made.

 

First off, it is the only warzone where actually killing the other team adds no benefit to the game. The most basic rule of pvp is: kill the enemy. Even in 4.0 when healers are mega OP and you'd get a Voidstar with 5 healers on each team leading to a stalemate at the first door.... everyone knew "get 1 kill, and you win the game." Even in huttball, killing the other team will help keep mid open, keep them in their endzone and help you advance the ball. But no, in Odessen I've seen people commit suicide rather than fight because it will "help their team."

 

Second off, it's literally a giant cluster **** at every spawn. I can do incredible amounts of damage on a engi sniper just Aoeing the **** out of a node. And any melee class that has to sit in that AOE is ****ed hard.

 

Third off, it's like a god damn maze.

 

On the other hand though, it's great for ganking. Most of my ganking montages are made on Oddessen because I can spawn camp some poor ****er until they rage quit.

[TrixxieTriss]

Knowing yourself and acting preemptively is noble. But knowing yourself, staying and resisting the urge of toxicity is admirable. I would suggest you take your chances from time to time. Half my Odessens are amazing games.

 

LoL, I do sometimes. But 8/10 times I’m sorely disappointed and I have to have words with myself for making such a poor decision

[TrixxieTriss]

It’s probably my favorite as well along with voidstar. Huttball is too iffy and the civil wars involve too many people trying to cap the other node and giving up mid.

 

My favourite objective maps (which I mostly like over arena) go like this

 

Hutt Ball

Hypergates

Lag ball (when it’s not too bugged)

Yavin (if teams are balanced)

Voidstar

Nova coast (bored of it after 6 years)

Alderaan (I prefer the Yavin reskin)

.

.

.

.

Insert Arena

Rishi (it’s the only Arena I like)

.

.

Insert pve content (which I mostly dislike and stay away from)

.

.

Insert the rest of Arena

.

.

.

.

Odessen

Edited July 5, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[Aliigator]

I don't like this WZ, because ppl always don't go for battle mods, and even if they go for them, they use them againts their own team(recently guy deactivate our dot).