Mournblood Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Seeing as how our guild can put two very strong groups of tanks heals and dps together every night. That's exactly what i'm suggesting. I think we need some more clarification from Eric on this, but my impression is that unless premade teams are split up by the new matchmaking system, you could be sitting in queue while it tries to match you up against another premade. Either way you look at it, it appears to me that solo queueing for regular WZs will be the best way to go in this new matchmaking system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenariusJay Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 That is awesome. Nice. Plus no more double-premades! You can still double premade. A guild with 8 can still que sync and get lucky (like how it is now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 When you open your PvP queue, click on the PvP Stats in the lower right corner. In addition to Solo and Team Ranked ratings, it shows your Total Stats which consists of Total Wins, Player Kills, Medals Earned, and MVP Votes Received. Pretty sure they will be using those Total Stats, in combination with your average gear level, and perhaps Valor level. This is per toon, not per Legacy. Yes, I do know that. But Eric said they are invisible ratings. That means there are other factors. Win vs losses doesn’t represents individual player skill at all. MVPs can be given to bad players just because they are friends The medal system is also no way to measure player skill because it doesn’t represent team work or things like scoring all 6 goals in Hutt Ball. It will reward players more medals who death match in a corner. It takes more skill to score in Hutt Ball and medals won’t show that. So no, the medals shouldn’t even be considered as a way to rate player skill, unless they plan to overhaul the whole system and customise it for each WZ. There has to be more to their player rating formula or it will be meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 You can still double premade. A guild with 8 can still que sync and get lucky (like how it is now) You would need 4 premades in a match to get a double premade on your team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayOfTheWarriorx Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 You can still double premade. A guild with 8 can still que sync and get lucky (like how it is now) But how will you form premades with people in a different faction? Ya have to form them before entering the quece. Plus you won't be able to have more than 1 healer and 1 tank in any premade so that also limits the choices of who can join a premade to quece with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayOfTheWarriorx Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Yes, I do know that. But Eric said they are invisible ratings. That means there are other factors. Win vs losses doesn’t represents individual player skill at all. MVPs can be given to bad players just because they are friends The medal system is also no way to measure player skill because it doesn’t represent team work or things like scoring all 6 goals in Hutt Ball. It will reward players more medals who death match in a corner. It takes more skill to score in Hutt Ball and medals won’t show that. So no, the medals shouldn’t even be considered as a way to rate player skill, unless they plan to overhaul the whole system and customise it for each WZ. There has to be more to their player rating formula or it will be meaningless. Yeah I been trying to figure out what they will base rating on if isn't on ranked rating. Number of kills, wins/losses/MVP votes? Actually maybe MPV votes would make sense as a rating factor as it demonstrates to the degree to which other's have considered your contribution in wzs to be noteworthy. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Yeah I been trying to figure out what they will base rating on if isn't on ranked rating. Number of kills, wins/losses/MVP votes? Actually maybe MPV votes would make sense as a rating factor as it demonstrates to the degree to which other's have considered your contribution in wzs to be noteworthy. Just a thought. He already stated they have a behind the scenes way of determining it. Will never know tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuskyBoy Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Happy about the changes, anything to get away from the nil all soccer draws where no one dies that come with healer/tank stacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayOfTheWarriorx Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 He already stated they have a behind the scenes way of determining it. Will never know tho Ahh okay, musta missed that part. Thanks for the heads up. Great more metrics they are basing things on that players don't have the slightest clue about to gauge for themselves whether or not it is a practical basis and a reflection of how things really are in actual play. If their hidden metrics regarding class balance are any indication their rating metrics here should make no sense whatsoever and be miles off the mark. So much for transparency =p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayOfTheWarriorx Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) Happy about the changes, anything to get away from the nil all soccer draws where no one dies that come with healer/tank stacking. I don't know what server people are playing on where no one ever dies but it is most certainly not the one I'm playing on. I have never not once never killed anyone in a WZ or seen no one ever dieing. I'm sure it's happened once or twice and that's why I don't recall it ever happening because that's how little it does that I can't even remember it happening. I agree an over abundance of healers/tanks is certainly problematic and does cause things sometimes to feel like all you are doing is parsing and I clearly see the need of role balancing among the teams, that's not in question at all and I happy they are making sure that matchmaking is better, that's a massive QoL improvement and a welcome one. That said, I kill people and get killed by people all the live long day. You should come to Star Forge. All we do is kill people and get our arses lite up by all the mercs and snipers. Edited June 5, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenariusJay Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) But how will you form premades with people in a different faction? Ya have to form them before entering the quece. Plus you won't be able to have more than 1 healer and 1 tank in any premade so that also limits the choices of who can join a premade to quece with. Maybe I'm miss understanding you, but you can still form 2 groups of 4 and que at the same time to get in the same match. If your lucky, you could all land on the same team still. Cross faction may hinder the odds alot more though. 2 groups of 4 with 1 healer and 1 tank would give the entire team 2 healer 2 tank, 4 dps. Assuming they all land on the same team... Edited June 5, 2018 by DenariusJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Actually maybe MPV votes would make sense as a rating factor as it demonstrates to the degree to which other's have considered your contribution in wzs to be noteworthy. Just a thought. Sorry babe, but that’s a terrible idea. Nobody really votes based on players skill. It’s either all about numbers, friends or popularity. Skill has nothing to do with it. An example of this is yesterday I played a lot of Hutt Ball and score 90% of the goals for my teams. Either 4 or 6 per match. Out of 5 matches, I only got one vote because I didn’t farm dps all match. I basically carried my teams and used skill and tactics to do it. What you are suggesting should even enter into the “skill” equation. But let’s say they did use it. The whole thing would open up a can or worms where other people could troll by dumping all the mvps on less skilled people to raise their “skill” rating. Which of course leads to exploiting the system in favour of those placing the MVPs to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauvi Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) Good changes all around. All Warzone and Starfighter queues are now cross-faction A quick suggestion regarding the cross faction warzones: since classes are all mirrors of another in the other faction, why not load a "generic" model of that class (along with the correct effects and animations on abilities etc) ? For example, if one sorcerer ends up with republic players, the sorcerer will see himself as himself (his in-game model won't change when displayed on the player's computer) but will see his team mates as Empire versions of the respective classes. On the republic side, each player will see republic players as their intended in-game models (no changes here) but will see the sorcerer as a sage (generic sage model and animations) The opposing team will see all models and animations/effects as the other faction. There are at least two benefits to this and no real drawbacks that I can see: - this will help with immersion - this might improve performance (both on loading and rendering) This should also be fairly easy to implement so it won't take much of a programmer's time. Edited June 5, 2018 by Gauvi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) Ahh okay, musta missed that part. Thanks for the heads up. Great more metrics they are basing things on that players don't have the slightest clue about to gauge for themselves whether or not it is a practical basis and a reflection of how things really are in actual play. If their hidden metrics regarding class balance are any indication their rating metrics here should make no sense whatsoever and be miles off the mark. So much for transparency =p I think it’s good that players can’t try and work out what theirs or other peoples skill rating should be because it can cause trolling or more toxicity. Keeping it hidden is what they should do. What I’m trying to find out is what method they use to work it out so we can have some confidence that it isn’t flawed. ie them only picking one cataegory, wins vs losses, MVPs medals of Valor to base it off. All of those separately are flawed because it’s mainly based on how many matches you’ve played and not on skill. ie I could be the worst pvper in history, but still have 100 Valor and a 50/50 win loss ratio because I’ve played for 6 years. Also, will it be legacy based or account based or character based or class based. If it’s character based, there is nothing stopping me from rolling more Alts of the same class to get easier matches. Which ruins any semblance of match making because I could be the best Mara in the game, but I’m on a new Mara Alt and classified as a noob. Being legacy and class based at the same time would be the best way to do it. Edited June 5, 2018 by TrixxieTriss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 I don't know what server people are playing on where no one ever dies but it is most certainly not the one I'm playing on. I have never not once never killed anyone in a WZ or seen no one ever dieing. I'm sure it's happened once or twice and that's why I don't recall it ever happening because that's how little it does that I can't even remember it happening. I agree an over abundance of healers/tanks is certainly problematic and does cause things sometimes to feel like all you are doing is parsing and I clearly see the need of role balancing among the teams, that's not in question at all and I happy they are making sure that matchmaking is better, that's a massive QoL improvement and a welcome one. That said, I kill people and get killed by people all the live long day. You should come to Star Forge. All we do is kill people and get our arses lite up by all the mercs and snipers. It happens, not all the time, but it definitely does happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mournblood Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Maybe I'm miss understanding you, but you can still form 2 groups of 4 and que at the same time to get in the same match. If your lucky, you could all land on the same team still. Cross faction may hinder the odds alot more though. 2 groups of 4 with 1 healer and 1 tank would give the entire team 2 healer 2 tank, 4 dps. Assuming they all land on the same team... I inferred the same thing from Eric's post. You will have very little chance to get on the same team if you synch queue a double premade under the new matchmaking system. Say for example, each of your two premades has trinity (healer, tank and DPS), but there are no other tanks or healers among the PUG players who are queued. Your premades will get split up, and you'll end up fighting each other. Additionally, now that all WZs will be cross faction, the advantage the Pubs had (due to fewer faction members in queue) for getting their double premades on the same team will be gone. At least on my server, Pub premades dominating WZs past midnight will be a thing of the past. So basically, it will be very unlikely for any guild to get two premades on the same team together after the matchmaking system is implemented. The question that's still in my mind that Eric needs to clarify is what happens to a single premade if they have two healers and there are no other healers queued? Will the matchmaking system split up the healers in that premade? And what about the "rating" level for regular WZs? What if everyone in that premade is higher "rating" than anyone else they are queued with? Will the matchmaking system split them up? And if all of that is true, what's the point of being able to group queue if you're likely to get split up anyway? Why not just take it to its logical conclusion and make regular WZs solo queue only? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 The question that's still in my mind that Eric needs to clarify is what happens to a single premade if they have two healers and there are no other healers queued? Will the matchmaking system split up the healers in that premade? And what about the "rating" level for regular WZs? What if everyone in that premade is higher "rating" than anyone else they are queued with? Will the matchmaking system split them up? And if all of that is true, what's the point of being able to group queue if you're likely to get split up anyway? Why not just take it to its logical conclusion and make regular WZs solo queue only? Best guess is they wait in the queue longer. But I’m pretty sure Eric said there can only be one healer and one tank per premade Great question! A pre-made (in Unranked) can only have a max of 1 tank and 1 healer in their group. -eric All it means is guilds and premades will need to regulate themselves better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mournblood Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 But I’m pretty sure Eric said there can only be one healer and one tank per premade All it means is guilds and premades will need to regulate themselves better. I read that, Trixie, but what if there is no other healer or tank queued in that match? Does the healer and tank in that premade get split up? If not, a PUG team versus a premade with trinity sort of defeats the purpose of this new matchmaking system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vissionary Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Well this seems like a pile of hot garbage, if I am running a premade than let me run the premade I want don’t pigeon hole me and my team into your idea of what’s fun or I guess acceptable in your mind. If I want to run a combat medic wth a tank and a healing sage to stall out a node while I have a healing scoundrel go stealth cap a node than let me run that. Who are you to say that’s unacceptable? God forbid you actually have some people willing to heal or tank in a war zone. How is it my problem that a group of uncoordinated PuGs have a hard time killing me? You want to kill me and take my node? Good! Go get some friends and do that but they better be all DPS cuz that’s the only thing not limited in a war zone now. If this “matchmaking” goes live as it is, than i’ll Have to take a hard look at why I still play, because the way I enjoy this game is clearly unacceptable to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
septru Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) All Warzone and Starfighter queues are now cross-faction Does this apply to solo ranked as well? Edited June 5, 2018 by septru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lundorff Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 All Warzone and Starfighter queues are now cross-faction What about ranked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 I read that, Trixie, but what if there is no other healer or tank queued in that match? Does the healer and tank in that premade get split up? If not, a PUG team versus a premade with trinity sort of defeats the purpose of this new matchmaking system. I doubt they can split them. Maybe there would be a delay in pops if the other team is full pug and has not healer or tank. But my best guess is they will just put the premade against non healer/tank team if there is no other options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Does this apply to solo ranked as well? One would assume by the word ALL to insinuate ranked too. That’s the way I read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) If I want to run a combat medic wth a tank and a healing sage to stall out a node while I have a healing scoundrel go stealth cap a node than let me run that. Who are you to say that’s unacceptable? That’s why they are making the change to stop people from stalling out matches and making them Big parsing exercises. You might find that fun, but the majority of pvpers want to fight and be able to actually kill stuff. When you make premades like you do, it slows down the game and it isn’t fun. Unfortunately for you, WZs weren’t designed around your sort of fun, which is why the change was needed. Like it or not, it is a positive change for pvp and welcomed by most. If you leave because of it, well that’s a shame, but maybe you’ve been playing the wrong game if all you want to do is lock out game play by saturating pvp with all healer/tank premades so nobody can die or have a hope of playing the objectives. Edited June 5, 2018 by TrixxieTriss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 When is PTS testing ?? With the planned roadmap saying we should see these pvp changes rolled out from early July, when can we expect these to go live on the PTS for us to start testing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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