Impossible to gain rating in ranked unless you cheat or exploit. Please address.

[nepochop]

have you tried playing better so you win more than 50% of your games and gain rating? I would recommend that strategy

 

I see posts like this so often that I can only assume all the players stuck in bronze genuinely believe that the explanation for their being stuck in bronze couldn't POSSIBLY be that they just play at a bronze level

 

Hard to prove that I am a good player here on forums, but yes, I always play the best I can. I know my class, know pvp tricks, etc. Im surely not the best out there, but being stuck in bronze just isnt my true rating.

[Lundorff]

How much you gain or lose is modulated by how the two teams stack up against each other. The higher one team's elo is in comparison to the other the more they lose or the less they win, whatever the outcome is. That's fairness. It's also how EVERY mmr ladder works and has worked for 10+ years in gaming.

 

If you're losing a lot for losses and getting little for wins that just means you're winning games stacked in your favor (and losing them too).

 

Only in theory. I can lose 15 points when we have a mat farmer or a wintrader on my team, and when the opposite is true I only gain 7-9 points. These people break the system. Same with healers and tanks. The system will happily pitch a new healer against an experienced one, and these key classes tend to determine the outcome.

 

 

nobody is going to do that

 

That is your choice, but then we really have nothing to discuss.

 

Edit: Just had a match without a healer and with a mediocre jugg on our side. We still managed to prevail. +9. Game is broken.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Lundorff

[Amaste]

Prove it to me next season. Either by recording all matches of at least by providing a screen shot of the end game statistics after each match.

 

Just the win loss total from the 3 toons he posted alone comes out to around 60 hours of footage, lowballing it to 5 min start to finish per solo match. <.<;

 

I mean, I myself am looking for anything to pass the time til GoT comes back for that final season, but this seems a bit excessive to verify what his screen shots show.

[yellow_]

Only in theory. I can lose 15 points when we have a mat farmer or a wintrader on my team, and when the opposite is true I only gain 7-9 points. These people break the system. Same with healers and tanks. The system will happily pitch a new healer against an experienced one, and these key classes tend to determine the outcome.

this effect will work in your favor half the time, and the other team's the other half

[Adrenalinezs]

Edit: I challenge you to play 500 matches on any dps class next season, and record all of it. Prove that it's only a question of skill and perseverance.

 

Spend less time on the forums and more time in solos and maybe you'll finally get tier-1.

[Lundorff]

Just the win loss total from the 3 toons he posted alone comes out to around 60 hours of footage, lowballing it to 5 min start to finish per solo match. <.<;

 

I mean, I myself am looking for anything to pass the time til GoT comes back for that final season, but this seems a bit excessive to verify what his screen shots show.

 

Yes I also said he could just screen shot the final statics. But I really just want to know how people can overcome all the random factors. Perhaps there are more of this going on here on DM

Edited June 4, 2018 by Lundorff

[Janglor]

Yes I also said he could just screen shot the final statics. But I really just want to know how people can overcome all the random factors. Perhaps there are more of this going on here on DM

 

Is it really that difficult for you to accept that you just aren't that good? My deception sin is stuck at about 1500 rating. Random losses hurt, random wins help, but the truth is im just slightly above average at sin and deception sin sucks. It isn't lack of cheating that caused my ratings stagnation, it's that my positive impact on the warzone isn't that high above replacement. (WARP as the statistics is known in sports analytics.)

[DavidAtkinson]

The que on Darth Malgus is tragic ... it is very dead. I managed to play 6 games this evening out of which I won 5.

 

I played well every game, but It's only 50% skill and 30% mathcmaking and 20% who is in que/in your team.

 

You can be the godfather of ranked PVP, if you get the same mat farmer heal 3 times, you lose no mater what.

 

Looking forward to the new ranked match making which won't make groups based on team's average rating.

[septru]

Edit: I challenge you to play 500 matches on any dps class next season, and record all of it. Prove that it's only a question of skill and perseverance.

 

Da-ddy - Top 3 operative. All dps.

Grandmaester Flash- 2k+ sorc. All dps.

Dacri - 2k+ sage. All dps.

Mortis- Gold juggernaut. All dps.

Celio- 2k+ operative. All dps.

Currently grindings out sage on SF- 1.6k ELO in sub 100 games played. All dps.

 

All off the top of my head. All post-start of the season.

[Lundorff]

Da-ddy - Top 3 operative. All dps.

Grandmaester Flash- 2k+ sorc. All dps.

Dacri - 2k+ sage. All dps.

Mortis- Gold juggernaut. All dps.

Celio- 2k+ operative. All dps.

Currently grindings out sage on SF- 1.6k ELO in sub 100 games played. All dps.

 

All off the top of my head. All post-start of the season.

 

And how do you deal with all the random? If your side doesn't have a healer, or if your healer only managed ½ of the other healer. Or if you are fighting 4 vs. 3 due to a wintrader or a globalled mat farmer? Or how about plain on unbalanced classes, e.g. pts and juggs vs. snipers and maras.

 

Yes it is beginning to become clear to me, that I am not in the same league as some of you guys and that quitting ranked (and this the game) is probably the healthier choice. Yes I am probably just a bronze, bordering on silver player, but I still don't understand how you guys can overcome something like 50% of all matches being "broken" in some fashion.

[Talon_strikes]

And how do you deal with all the random? If your side doesn't have a healer, or if your healer only managed ½ of the other healer. Or if you are fighting 4 vs. 3 due to a wintrader or a globalled mat farmer? Or how about plain on unbalanced classes, e.g. pts and juggs vs. snipers and maras.

 

Yes it is beginning to become clear to me, that I am not in the same league as some of you guys and that quitting ranked (and this the game) is probably the healthier choice. Yes I am probably just a bronze, bordering on silver player, but I still don't understand how you guys can overcome something like 50% of all matches being "broken" in some fashion.

Don't listen to him. He's backfilled before and does a lot of que syncing Pub and Imp Side on SS and SF respectively.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Talon_strikes

[KendraP]

Da-ddy - Top 3 operative. All dps.

Grandmaester Flash- 2k+ sorc. All dps.

Dacri - 2k+ sage. All dps.

Mortis- Gold juggernaut. All dps.

Celio- 2k+ operative. All dps.

Currently grindings out sage on SF- 1.6k ELO in sub 100 games played. All dps.

 

All off the top of my head. All post-start of the season.

 

http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/character/4611688513483407382

This you?

 

This is one of my alts for instance, who did a grand total of maybe 10-15 mstches to get mats.

http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/character/4611688200492095367

 

My 5th alt is in the same bracket as you?

 

Also, in your oper trolling video from a while back, i dont remember seeing the match you played against us. Guess losses weren't counted there either eh?

[yellow_]

http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/character/4611688513483407382

This you?

 

This is one of my alts for instance, who did a grand total of maybe 10-15 mstches to get mats.

http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/character/4611688200492095367

 

My 5th alt is in the same bracket as you?

 

Also, in your oper trolling video from a while back, i dont remember seeing the match you played against us. Guess losses weren't counted there either eh?

leave mortis alone

 

he's someone else and plays jugg dps in solo ranked, often queuing into mountains of fotm classes and much of it before any juggernaut buffs were handed out

 

you probably played tank in group ranked against mat farmers...these two experiences could hardly be more different

Edited June 5, 2018 by yellow_

[KendraP]

leave mortis alone

 

he's someone else and plays jugg dps in solo ranked, often queuing into mountains of fotm classes and much of it before any juggernaut buffs were handed out

 

you probably played tank in group ranked against mat farmers...these two experiences could hardly be more different

 

Im fine if he plays jugg dps. Im not fine with someone blantantly lying about it. I've played tank and dps juggies before the fix to FD as well. And before they nerfed merc damage too.

 

When i make a claim i also prove that claim.

[Lundorff]

1) Go tank, win hard first game

2) Second game, 1 guy gets globalled, impossible match.

3) Third game, a thrower or wintrader or whatever. 4 v 3. Lost.

 

Try mara:

1) Win a game with us being 4 vs 3. Not fair for them

2) Win a fair match

3) Lose a match due to a tank that did 40k damage and died screaming

5) Lose because of a sniper that globalled twice (while wearing a gold rated plate lol...)

6) Lost due to a wintrading healer

7) Win because same wintrading healer left their side (yay +6 because they were only 2 people in the end)

 

This is the state of ranked I see this days. Over and *********** over. This is why I simply do no believe that skill can determine the final outcome. So yes I absolutely believe that most of you cretins are cheating in one form or another hoo doo some players just cant accept they are bronze :roll sarcastic eyes pats themselves on the back: Yes I *********** know I am not that *********** good, but most you would be down here with me without all this *********** cheating.

 

**** this #%¤&%¤&%¤&%¤ game.

[Adrenalinezs]

This is the state of ranked I see this days. Over and *********** over. This is why I simply do no believe that skill can determine the final outcome. So yes I absolutely believe that most of you cretins are cheating in one form or another hoo doo some players just cant accept they are bronze :roll sarcastic eyes pats themselves on the back: Yes I *********** know I am not that *********** good, but most you would be down here with me without all this *********** cheating.

**** this #%¤&%¤&%¤&%¤ game.

 

Skill does determine the final outcome in some way. Also, maybe you're just unlucky. I have a few toons above 2k this season and I can tell you that you won't climb by doing 3-4 solo games a day. You got to do a lot of games.

[Lundorff]

Skill does determine the final outcome in some way. Also, maybe you're just unlucky. I have a few toons above 2k this season and I can tell you that you won't climb by doing 3-4 solo games a day. You got to do a lot of games.

 

It has nothing to do with the amount of game, and I am sorry but I don't for a second believe you have "a few toons above 2k" by playing ranked without some form of cheating.

[DavidAtkinson]

Skill does determine the final outcome in some way. Also, maybe you're just unlucky. I have a few toons above 2k this season and I can tell you that you won't climb by doing 3-4 solo games a day. You got to do a lot of games.

 

Indeed.. on Darth Malgus pop is very slow at the moment. 2 days ago I barely managed to get 6 games in prime time. Yesterday only one game after which it stopped popping for more than 20-30 mins. As I have a job, I can't afford to play all night, eh.

 

I don't know when is Lundorf queing, but what he says isn't far from the truth. Yesterday after work I qued for 1 game before gym and guess what., Luyala in my team Tserss in other team. Unsurprisingly Lyala played like trash and died first both games I think. I wasn't top dog either, but the point is that when Qu zync cancers are in que, YOU NEED TO STOP queing. Ironaclly when those people aren't in que, ranked is kinda fair on DM. When Lyala dies first and there is a guildmate in enemy team, you know how fair it is for you then.

 

And like I said: 50% skill, 30% matchmaking, and 20% who is in que. These determine your outcome.

 

Edit: From my own experience I can safely tell that focusing the right targets, doing damage and a well placed grenade, stun can tick the outcome of the game in your favor.

Edited June 6, 2018 by DavidAtkinson

[Elusive_Thing]

And how do you deal with all the random? If your side doesn't have a healer, or if your healer only managed ½ of the other healer. Or if you are fighting 4 vs. 3 due to a wintrader or a globalled mat farmer? Or how about plain on unbalanced classes, e.g. pts and juggs vs. snipers and maras.

 

Yes it is beginning to become clear to me, that I am not in the same league as some of you guys and that quitting ranked (and this the game) is probably the healthier choice. Yes I am probably just a bronze, bordering on silver player, but I still don't understand how you guys can overcome something like 50% of all matches being "broken" in some fashion.

Assuming 50% as a ballpark figure (plenty of variance there, of course), wouldn't an approximately equal portion of them be broken in your favour? Like one third equal-ish, one third against, one third in favour. That'd imply around 16.67% of games being broken against you.

[Lundorff]

Assuming 50% as a ballpark figure (plenty of variance there, of course), wouldn't an approximately equal portion of them be broken in your favour? Like one third equal-ish, one third against, one third in favour. That'd imply around 16.67% of games being broken against you.

 

And if you lost / won the same amount of elo or points, then it wouldn't be a problem (only bat**** annoying). Unfortunately that is not the case, so despite things evening out in the long run (except for queue syncs) then you can not climb even with a positive win ratio.

[Elusive_Thing]

And if you lost / won the same amount of elo or points, then it wouldn't be a problem (only bat**** annoying). Unfortunately that is not the case, so despite things evening out in the long run (except for queue syncs) then you can not climb even with a positive win ratio.

But if (by your rough approximation) 50% of the matches are somehow broken (and assuming around equal parts of broken matches), that leaves 50% of the matches you could still use to climb the ELO ladder without being hindered. Plus of course around a sixth of the games that would be roughly equally broken for both teams.

[Lundorff]

The number of broken matches is closer to 70-75%, and when you lose more elo than you gain from these, you need to win a **** ton of the balanced matches. You probably need a win ratio higher then 60% of those 25-30% in order to climb, but it's nearly impossible to properly calculate.

[Elusive_Thing]

The number of broken matches is closer to 70-75%, and when you lose more elo than you gain from these, you need to win a **** ton of the balanced matches. You probably need a win ratio higher then 60% of those 25-30% in order to climb, but it's nearly impossible to properly calculate.

I was only using the figure you provided.

[RafaelPeretz]

Rating measure how good you are at making friends to help (and qsync) you climb and how good you are at tracking other ranked players to dodge em or to q with em. Thats it.

 

So anyone in gold tier is very good doing this. This not mean he is good at all.

Matter of fact, at the end of the season you going to see a lot of people that suck and /or complete unknows with gold flairs and banners and mounts around.

 

IMO, Ranked should be redesigned:

 

1st of all, be measured by legacy and not the class by class approach, no matter what class or faction someone is playing. This will end with the people that have alts to ruin other people ratings or exploit and will be a fair way to rate the PLAYER. If you rock at your mara but have something else that you suck, you will lose rating in your global score everytime you choose to play your troll toon. Thats it. Simple. If you wanna learn a class or not excel at it, q for regs.

 

2nd, having a detailed track record of all matches, with dps, damage total, etc.. were everyone can have access to check, either to research what he can improve or expect from someone else, or to verify if someone is exploiting the system (qsyncing, wintrading, using bots, etc).

 

3rd, end with backfilling. If someone drop the match, void it. If same person keep droping matches or rejecting q's, ban him from the q for 24 hours (considering that now the system is legacy wide, he will be unable to q for ranked in any toon he have).

 

4th, make unraked arenas q. So people can play there for fun or to train.

Edited June 6, 2018 by RafaelPeretz

[Talon_strikes]

If I were to place percentages on figures that determine solo ranked rating, it would be:

 

40% matchmaking

40% exploiting/cheating

20% actual skill

 

I would make exploit/cheating higher but BW did remove backfilling. However, many other forms of exploiting still exist, and they ended up creating que declining by fixing backfilling...