Felix Iresso return: thanks

[Estelindis]

I am a consular and I have completed the entire story, including the nathema flashpoint and I don't have any alert for Felix Iresso's return. Is this a bug or is there something else I need to be doing?

The only thing I can imagine preventing the alert from showing up is if you have an active chapter (a thing some people do to keep companions like Acina or Marr).

 

Anyone know if Felix is romanceable in the return if he's never been romanced in vanilla? I'm wondering because my Consular will be breaking up with Theron (more like he broke up with her) and there aren't many other options for her.

Sorry, I don't know. However, I would be very surprised if it was possible. It generally looks like we can only resume vanilla romances, not begin them. For instance, my agent who romanced Kaliyo and only lightly flirted with Temple wasn't able to romance Temple when she came back.

[Dael_Adaon]

Black Lives Matter

[Estelindis]

Black Lives Matter

Black cuddles matter too! Felix will be getting plenty.

[Asmodesu]

Black cuddles matter too! Felix will be getting plenty.

 

Hey if you have some screenshots from the alert could you pm me a couple? my JC is nowhere near it...

[Estelindis]

Hey if you have some screenshots from the alert could you pm me a couple? my JC is nowhere near it...

I went one step better and made an (unlisted)

of it. If you'd rather not see the whole thing yet, though, here's an album of a few screenshots.

[leviathanmirror]

I'm glad to have Felix back! I'm kind of disappointed at the choice for his story though. Given that he's unlikely to have any new content after this, it leaves him in a really bad place with no hope of any recovery in canon.

 

Anyone know if Felix is romanceable in the return if he's never been romanced in vanilla? I'm wondering because my Consular will be breaking up with Theron (more like he broke up with her) and there aren't many other options for her.

 

I'm afraid not. Like the other returning romances, you can only restart an existing relationship.

[Sarova]

Two things I'm curious about, since my Consular is still back doing Star Fortresses:

 

1. Did they finally fix Felix' combat voice clips? Or does he still channel Zenith when he heals himself?

2. Where does he show up in the companion window? I'm curious because Akaavi/Mako got a whole new category to themselves.

1 - he still sadly channels Zenith when healing. This really annoys me so I use a different companion when I need a healer. I was hoping when Felix's voice actor did the new lines they might have paid him the extra to do the healing lines.

2. Felix remains where he was in my original companions section along with Nadia. I took them both from the impatience terminal.

 

I was very pleased that I correctly guessed the reason for his absence. Nothing else would have made sense. I would have like to have seen him return with Aric and Havoc squad though.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Sarova

[Estelindis]

I'm glad to have Felix back! I'm kind of disappointed at the choice for his story though. Given that he's unlikely to have any new content after this, it leaves him in a really bad place with no hope of any recovery in canon.

It's definitely a story choice I don't see everyone being a fan of. He says himself: "I'm not the same person you fell for." In spite of his various problems in the vanilla story, he mostly retained a relaxed attitude and a hopeful view on life. Now he is deeply wounded. But I believe that he actually is the same person our consulars fell for. He's been through a nightmare, but he's still him. And I think any consular who loves him will help him through this.

 

Even if it's not explicitly referenced in-game, we know our characters will be spending plenty of time with him, helping him to heal and move forwards. His comment about being glad to see the open sky again makes me think he'd like the Odessen Wilds. After returning, his place in the base is standing at the very edge of the military hanger looking out at nature. There are some nice walks where he and the consular can stroll, lovely glades where they sit and talk, some beautiful pools and streams where they can swim and bathe. Our characters will take the utmost care with him, whether we ever get a cutscene showing that or not.

 

I would have like to have seen him return with Aric and Havoc squad though.

The things I would do for a Felix/Aric reunion! We will probably never get this... or Vette/Risha... or Mako/Qyzen, etc. But a girl can dream!

Edited May 5, 2018 by Estelindis

[PBanet]

So do I need to have finished the chapters to trigger this? I don't see it.

[Estelindis]

So do I need to have finished the chapters to trigger this? I don't see it.

Yes, you need to have finished the chapters. Felix returns once KotET is over. (If there is some additional prerequisite, I don't know; I think finishing KotET should be enough.)

Edited May 5, 2018 by Estelindis

[PBanet]

Thanks!

[JennyFlynn]

I don't have Felix romanced on my Consulars, of which I only have one max level to begin with and the other is still on Tython. Back with my first Consular, I found little appeal to him and I didn't really know what flirting was, nor did I know you could actually date your companions. I may still give him a go once the other one progresses in the story.

 

That said, I watched the reunion and

wow, poor guy. It makes perfect sense why he was gone for so long and it makes me hate the Republic even more than I already did. I thought he did sound very Felix, though I don't know his character too well.

 

Funny side-note, in my fanfiction one of the companions is missing as well and they discover him on Nathema where Jarak's been experimenting on him for years. Almost the exact same situation as Felix except here it didn't involve a holocron in the brain.

 

 

I'm glad for all you Felix-romancing JCs!

Edited May 6, 2018 by JennyFlynn

[BlueShiftRecall]

I did like his return even though it was short but I expected this shortness. He is such a sweetheart to my JC she absolutely adores him. He'll need lots of love after what happened to him.

[Asmodesu]

I went one step better and made an (unlisted)

of it. If you'd rather not see the whole thing yet, though, here's an album of a few screenshots.

 

Thankyou! yeah I was only after screenshots. VA makes everything better and want to hear that when my JC gets to it.

[JennyFlynn]

I just had a curious thought;

 

 

Would Jarak have acted on his own or on Arcann's orders? And if on Arcann's orders, how freakin' sheety would it be if your JC spared Arcann and has him wondering around the base as a daily reminder to Felix of his suffering? Or worse, if your JC has now dumped Felix because they're dating Arcann? Ouch. Though, it also depends what Arcann knew of Jarak and whether he kept tabs or if Jarak had free reign of his experiments after Valkorion's fall until Vaylin got in touch years later. How did Arcann or Jarak even know about Felix's existence, why would they be interested and how would they know about the holocron?

 

 

Sorry, my mind starts thinking too much at times and I get curious over stuff we'll likely never get answers to.

Edited May 6, 2018 by JennyFlynn

[leviathanmirror]

It's definitely a story choice I don't see everyone being a fan of.

 

To be perfectly honest, knowing that these little class specific reunions are the last time we'll have any interaction with these characters, I wish they'd at least give them more neutral endings. Felix's canon ending is very unhappy. Fixing it in headcanon and fic is all well and good, but the canon is that he gets an unhappy ending. Vector too, for that matter, and Andronikos got a pretty bad deal too. Not that I'm advocating bad things happening to female characters but there's a pretty distinct pattern of treating the return of the the PC as the only good thing that happens to male LIs.

 

It would be nice to give them a more hopeful send off, given the circumstances.

[Estelindis]

Thank you! yeah I was only after screenshots. VA makes everything better and want to hear that when my JC gets to it.

You're very welcome! I thought you might want to experience the full thing with your own character.

 

Aside from Felix's voice, it always sounds a bit weird when hearing the voice of "our characters" coming from someone else, doesn't it? Even after plenty of flashpoints in groups, I never really get used to it - this "same voice" is somehow different whenever another character's face is with it.

 

I did like his return even though it was short but I expected this shortness. He is such a sweetheart to my JC she absolutely adores him. He'll need lots of love after what happened to him.

This is exactly how I feel about the return as well.

 

To be perfectly honest, knowing that these little class specific reunions are the last time we'll have any interaction with these characters, I wish they'd at least give them more neutral endings. Felix's canon ending is very unhappy. Fixing it in headcanon and fic is all well and good, but the canon is that he gets an unhappy ending. Vector too, for that matter, and Andronikos got a pretty bad deal too. Not that I'm advocating bad things happening to female characters but there's a pretty distinct pattern of treating the return of the the PC as the only good thing that happens to male LIs.

 

It would be nice to give them a more hopeful send off, given the circumstances.

If these companions are LIs or close friends with the main character, I think they do get hopeful endings by being reunited. They're clearly very glad to be with us again. I'd even say it's a happy ending. Not uncomplicatedly happy. Not happy without difficulty. But happy in spite of everything they've been through, knowing the main character is on their side and will help them deal with it. I don't think that's personal, individual headcanon. I think that's what we're all meant to assume characters who love these companions will do.

 

That said, I have some friends who feel life is hard enough as it is. They like their characters to go through few real troubles and enjoy escapist fairytale endings. They're entitled to feel that way, and so are you if that's what you prefer.

 

I do feel your criticism about the return of the PC being the only nice thing that happens to male PCs. There is... maybe a trend of making the male LIs idolize the female characters as the only important thing in their world? And maybe it makes some ladies feel wonderful and special and swoony - it makes me feel a *bit* that way - but it honestly makes me feel more uncomfortable than romantic. I'd like our gents to have more in life than just us! There was a topic recently asking who we'd choose as our "ultimate nine crewmates" and I chose two (Aric and Koth) with the main thought that they'd be bros for Felix. Each of us needs more in life than just romance, no matter how nice romance is.

 

 

Like... serving the Republic was something that mattered to Felix his whole life. As a refugee, he saw the Empire attacking and taking homes away, while the Republic defended and provided shelter. He wanted to be part of that, one of the "good guys" protecting the innocent and pushing back the invader. And he did his best the whole time he was a soldier, in spite of the difficulties he had.

 

Now his KotFE/ET ordeal didn't just put him through agony for five freaking years - it took away his faith in the Republic. What does he actually have left? (*I* don't actually think he should be blaming the Republic, but that's kind of a side issue and not something my consular will want to be lecturing him about - she just wants to take care of him.)

 

That said, I suspect this particular thing is less an issue of "give the male LIs nothing but the main character" and about smushing stories together and trying to make every combination work, so it makes sense that even companions very dedicated to one faction or another will turn aside from that and support the Alliance. People were mad when Elara wouldn't join some troopers on Iokath based on past choices. Supposedly Felix was going to react to the Iokath choice too, but I haven't heard a peep out of him. Maybe it only happens if you get him back before Iokath.

 

 

(Which - sidenote! - is another thing about these companion returns! If you play every bit of content as soon as it's released, you somehow end up subjecting Felix to longer as a prisoner, because - I assume - if you waited until his return to start Iokath you could get him before picking a side?)

 

Still, I wonder why female LIs seem to mostly have stories that allow them to pursue their interests or follow their duties without going through nightmares on behalf of the male main character. Broadly, they still have other things going on in their lives that are meaningful to them. Maybe Risha is the exception, with her losing so much (even though her tough exterior may give the impression that she doesn't care at all). Yet even Risha doesn't lack for a fallback. I think we can all tell she'd have things to do if she didn't join us.

 

Maybe that's the test? Imagine what the companion might do if we told them not to join us? In their current situations, Vector, Quinn, and Felix all seem like they'd be really lost. Quinn would at least still have the Empire to serve - he still believes in that. But he seems to care so much about the SW that it would be a hollow and difficult service compared to being at her side. And Vector and Felix have been through so much, and (from their points of view) abandoned by the authorities they previously would've wanted to serve. Where would they go?

I don't have Felix romanced on my Consulars, of which I only have one max level to begin with and the other is still on Tython. Back with my first Consular, I found little appeal to him and I didn't really know what flirting was, nor did I know you could actually date your companions. I may still give him a go once the other one progresses in the story.

 

That said, I watched the reunion and

wow, poor guy. It makes perfect sense why he was gone for so long and it makes me hate the Republic even more than I already did. I thought he did sound very Felix, though I don't know his character too well.

 

Funny side-note, in my fanfiction one of the companions is missing as well and they discover him on Nathema where Jarak's been experimenting on him for years. Almost the exact same situation as Felix except here it didn't involve a holocron in the brain.

I'm glad for all you Felix-romancing JCs!

Thanks, Jenny! Our hearts are all broken for him.

 

Interesting that you picked this as a suitable fate for a companion - do you think it's even more appropriate with Felix's holocron angle, given the Dramath holocron connection in the KotET Nathema story?

 

Regarding the Republic, I feel like we don't really know enough about their role here. Felix says they knew what was happening to him and did nothing. But (with all respect and love to him) how does he know that? Did his captors obtain evidence of that and show it to him, to hurt him more? Possibly such evidence was fabricated. Then there's the issue of Felix's mission being half-cocked and unauthorized from the start. Should the Republic put their forces in danger trying to rescue someone who goes off like that? What if that force just ends up in Zakuulan prison too? (Again with love and respect to Felix.)

 

Aside from that, there's a wider, pervasive issue that we see with regard to many companion returns: supposedly we're not reunited earlier with our companions because no one knows where they are! I know my consular would've asked Jace Malcom about Felix. If the Supreme Commander of the Republic military can't find out his fate, can we really say "the Republic" knew? (Of course, the game doesn't actually let us ask Malcom, but that's part of what's so incredibly unrealistic about these situations.) And, similarly with Vector's alert, if the killiks are being pressed into war by the Empire, how would it be possible for none of our Imperial contacts to know? Someone is lying to someone somewhere.

I just had a curious thought;

 

Would Jarak have acted on his own or on Arcann's orders? And if on Arcann's orders, how freakin' sheety would it be if your JC spared Arcann and has him wondering around the base as a daily reminder to Felix of his suffering? Or worse, if your JC has now dumped Felix because they're dating Arcann? Ouch. Though, it also depends what Arcann knew of Jarak and whether he kept tabs or if Jarak had free reign of his experiments after Valkorion's fall until Vaylin got in touch years later. How did Arcann or Jarak even know about Felix's existence, why would they be interested and how would they know about the holocron?

Sorry, my mind starts thinking too much at times and I get curious over stuff we'll likely never get answers to.

I could be wrong here, but I didn't get a strong impression that Arcann had much, if anything, to do with Nathema. Vaylin suffered there under Valkorion's orders. And, however different our feelings might be about Arcann, I think we can agree that he hated and wanted to thwart Valkorion. I don't see Nathema as being something Arcann supported previously or would've wanted to continue on becoming Emperor. *thinking* At the same time... part of Arcann's massive field of daddy issues... involved taking Valkorion's tools and co-opting them to himself, making them his own. It's not like Arcann rejected the Eternal Throne or Fleet because they were his father's. No, he wanted them for that very reason. He wanted the whole world to see him as greater than Valkorion.

 

But.

 

While Thexan was the sibling Arcann truly loved, I think he also felt some closeness to Vaylin. Some distance as well, and some shame, but still a connection. I think he saw them both as enduring their father in different ways. Using that tool that hurt Vaylin so much... I don't know. It's not something I see Arcann doing. And probably Vaylin wouldn't have wanted it either, for a myriad of reasons.

 

As to how Jarak could've figured out about the holocron in Felix's head, I've been thinking about that and I've absolutely no idea. Even Darth Ouzal, who ordered it done, didn't know it was achieved successfully. Seemingly only the doctor who did it knew. No one from the Empire ever came after Felix after he escaped, so it seems like a well-kept secret. Did Jarak find out somehow - maybe through getting hold of some Imperial prisoners? - and intentionally put out the rumour to lure Felix to Zakuul? Seems... overly elaborate, and not guaranteed to snare Felix in particular. Or did he find out after Felix was captured? Were those knights just waiting for anyone who would answer the rumour? If so, it implies Jarak somehow having the authority to take his pick of prisoners and being able to see hidden knowledge in someone at a glance. If anything, that seems even more implausible.

 

Gosh, I'm just gonna have to do a heck of a lot more codex reading, research, and Nathema chapter replays. There must be plenty of details I've missed.

 

Anyway, before Felix's return was released, I imagined him meeting various members of the Alliance and getting to know them - including Arcann. I thought he'd have some strong reservations about Arcann given the whole carbonite business and galactic tyranny, but he'd trust the consular and put some faith in the power of redemption. I even envisioned a situation where Felix might need to physically heal for a while after being found, and the consular would appoint her most trusted companions to guard him anytime she was away. Arcann would've been part of that group.

 

Now, I see my consular politely asking Arcann to stay out of Felix's way for quite some time. Not because I think Arcann necessarily had any level of personal responsibility for what happened to Felix but because he had overall responsibility as the leader of Zakuul. I doubt Arcann ever gave an order to Jarak. Even so, Arcann knew Vaylin suffered on Nathema, and still Jarak was allowed to continue to exist and operate in the Eternal Empire. If Jarak simply went off the radar after Valkorion's death, why was he able to do whatever he wanted to prisoners captured by knights? If Arcann had no intention of ever using Nathema, why not go there and wipe it out? Or why not set Vaylin loose on them - she'd probably want to go to town.

 

As for a consular ending her romance with Felix to be with Arcann, that's too painful for me to even... Damn. I like Arcann as a character (as you know). In spite of my consular never ever flirting with anyone but Felix even once, I hesitated quite a long time over the flirt option in Arcann's alert because, in another life where my consular had never met Felix, I could see her being with Arcann. I thought about taking that flirt option but then not beginning Arcann's romance, just as some way to tell him "in another life." But in the end I couldn't do even that, because this is this life. And, looking wider, there will never be a consular who hasn't met Felix. Even if I ever succeed at making one who doesn't romance him, they'll still know Felix and care about him, and his sufferings will still have occurred under Arcann's watch. Honestly I had been considering making an alt consular just for Arcann and I think that plan is done forever now. Maaaaaybe a knight. Guess I'll have to wait and see all the knight companion returns first, though, right?

 

Edited May 7, 2018 by Estelindis

[leviathanmirror]

If these companions are LIs or close friends with the main character, I think they do get hopeful endings by being reunited. They're clearly very glad to be with us again. I'd even say it's a happy ending. Not uncomplicatedly happy. Not happy without difficulty. But happy in spite of everything they've been through, knowing the main character is on their side and will help them deal with it. I don't think that's personal, individual headcanon. I think that's what we're all meant to assume characters who love these companions will do.

 

That said, I have some friends who feel life is hard enough as it is. They like their characters to go through few real troubles and enjoy escapist fairytale endings. They're entitled to feel that way, and so are you if that's what you prefer.

 

If we were ever going to interact with these characters again, I'd feel differently. My point is that it's not really much of a sendoff for a beloved character.

 

You're assumption is that he recovers eventually. With no canon support for any given stance, it's just as likely that he'd withdraw further and further into himself until the only thing keeping him from taking his life is not wanting to hurt the Consular (and that would only be necessary if he sends a generic "all love interests send a letter here" letter at some point - otherwise we can safely assume that he does end up dead). Support and love are nice but they don't fix the kind of trauma Felix has experienced.

 

I do feel your criticism about the return of the PC being the only nice thing that happens to male PCs. There is... maybe a trend of making the male LIs idolize the female characters as the only important thing in their world? And maybe it makes some ladies feel wonderful and special and swoony - it makes me feel a *bit* that way - but it honestly makes me feel more uncomfortable than romantic. I'd like our gents to have more in life than just us! There was a topic recently asking who we'd choose as our "ultimate nine crewmates" and I chose two (Aric and Koth) with the main thought that they'd be bros for Felix. Each of us needs more in life than just romance, no matter how nice romance is.

 

I'm definitely feeling the "women like to save their men right?" from the male LI returns. I'm sure to some extent that's based on the popularity of Theron and Arcann as LIs. It's starting to feel like all the same story though.

 

Maybe that's the test? Imagine what the companion might do if we told them not to join us? In their current situations, Vector, Quinn, and Felix all seem like they'd be really lost. Quinn would at least still have the Empire to serve - he still believes in that. But he seems to care so much about the SW that it would be a hollow and difficult service compared to being at her side. And Vector and Felix have been through so much, and (from their points of view) abandoned by the authorities they previously would've wanted to serve. Where would they go?

 

(Reduced the quote to the last paragraph.)

 

I mean this is a lot to say that some characters have nothing left but the PC (Felix and Vector in particular). I don't feel like that's a great way to end their stories. It feels very much like it's intended to make the player feel good about themself for 'saving' these characters while at the same time giving them a straight up tragic ending. I don't consider anything that can be assumed as part of their ending. Imagination can go a lot of different ways. So their end note - the last we ever see of them - is really miserable. And like I said, if there was any hope for the continuation of their stories, I would feel differently. But since this is Very Definitely The End for them, it just feels bad.

Edited May 6, 2018 by leviathanmirror

[JennyFlynn]

Thanks, Jenny! Our hearts are all broken for him.

 

Interesting that you picked this as a suitable fate for a companion - do you think it's even more appropriate with Felix's holocron angle, given the Dramath holocron connection in the KotET Nathema story?

 

I could be wrong here, but I didn't get a strong impression that Arcann had much, if anything, to do with Nathema. Vaylin suffered there under Valkorion's orders. And, however different our feelings might be about Arcann, I think we can agree that he hated and wanted to thwart Valkorion. I don't see Nathema as being something Arcann supported previously or would've wanted to continue on becoming Emperor. *thinking* At the same time... part of Arcann's massive field of daddy issues... involved taking Valkorion's tools and co-opting them to himself, making them his own. It's not like Arcann rejected the Eternal Throne or Fleet because they were his father's. No, he wanted them for that very reason. He wanted the whole world to see him as greater than Valkorion.

 

 

Cut your quote just for brevity.

 

 

In my story it is Lord Scourge who's imprisoned on Nathema, on Arcann's orders. Arcann is looking to understand the situation regarding Scourge's immortality, his father's ritual, therefore the nature of his father's existence and with a faint hope that if he can somehow replicate certain aspects of that immortality he could use it heal/generate his own injuries. Further spurned by a desire to be greater than, and achieve more than his father did.

 

Is Felix's situation more appropriate due to the holocron? It's tough to say because there are a lot of questions concerning that entire situation.

 

First of, luring Felix; A year after your disappearance, the Republic gets an anonymous message you were spotted on Zakuul which, fair enough. But how would Jarak, at that point, be certain you are in fact still missing? How could he be so assured Felix himself (and not a Republic envoy or someone else entirely), would show up and walk into the trap? Just luck? He can't have known you're the Outlander because at that point in time, no one knows the identity of the Outlander save for Arcann/Vaylin and those present in the throne room during Valkorion's fall. And if Jarak did know the JC, in this case, is the Outlander then we have to assume he was either keeping extremely close/spying tabs on Arcann and Zakuul, or he was in fact informed by Arcann or Vaylin.

 

Felix also says the Knights were waiting for him when he walked into the trap. The Knights, at this point, serve Arcann so why would they be assisting Jarak if there are zero ties between Arcann and Jarak?

 

Unless, during Arcann's reign, Vaylin sent Knights on a 'rogue' mission to aid Jarak.

 

We can try and consider that after Valkorion's death, Jarak acted on his own and continued whichever work, entirely separate from Arcann and not even knowing each other until Vaylin's reign kicks in. Perhaps Valkorion left Knights behind on Nathema after working with Jarak, and those Knights still continued to serve/aid Jarak in his work rather than return to their current Emperor's, Arcann's, side?

 

Only three people knew of the holocron in Felix's mind--the JC, Felix, and that doctor Sera Fray. The holocron, best I recall, contains a random assortment of Sith knowledge. It could be that beyond our knowing, Valkorion/Vitiate was aware of this situation as well and Felix was basically on his 'wishlist' of items and people to obtain for examination or safekeeping due to what might be hidden in his mind. And perhaps, despite his 'death', Jarak carried on that work and that's how he knew of Felix. All of that takes a lot of reaching though.

 

Felix also keeps mentioning that Zakuul did this to him which again implies Arcann's knowledge of the situation. If the colony he was kept at wasn't on/near Zakuul, or if Arcann and his Zakuul forces had no involvement whatsoever then he wouldn't be saying Zakuul did it to him--he'd be mentioning only Jarak himself.

 

Btw; NONE of this is to discredit Arcann in any way or deliberately unravel Felix's return. I just found myself watching his return video and all these questions and curiosities hit me as I thought about the situation. It's likely best to just take the situation at face value but I can never seem to shut my brain up. That said, despite all this, I do think his return is absolutely lovely and my heart goes out to him.

 

[Estelindis]

Cut your quote just for brevity.

I know this isn't what you're saying, but brevity is always an issue for me!

 

I just found myself watching his return video and all these questions and curiosities hit me as I thought about the situation. It's likely best to just take the situation at face value but I can never seem to shut my brain up.

I feel exactly the same way - there is probably nothing more to it, but because not everything seems to make perfect sense or be fully answered I can't help wondering about these various things! I have to pop out now for a few hours but I hope to answer you properly later (as I found the main part of your post really interesting, especially about your fic).

Edited May 6, 2018 by Estelindis

[commanderwar]

I like his return it was so sad he was there all this time being experimented on him you really felt for the guy. it was so sad Edited May 6, 2018 by commanderwar

[JennyFlynn]

I know this isn't what you're saying, but brevity is always an issue for me!

 

 

I feel exactly the same way - there is probably nothing more to it, but because not everything seems to make perfect sense or be fully answered I can't help wondering about these various things! I have to pop out now for a few hours but I hope to answer you properly later (as I found the main part of your post really interesting, especially about your fic).

Annoying isn't it how the mind just starts to rattle and won't shush? I was talking about the reunion with my friend, a Felix-mancer, and all these curiosities popped up and I felt so bad poking holes.

[Asmodesu]

You're very welcome! I thought you might want to experience the full thing with your own character.

 

Aside from Felix's voice, it always sounds a bit weird when hearing the voice of "our characters" coming from someone else, doesn't it? Even after plenty of flashpoints in groups, I never really get used to it - this "same voice" is somehow different whenever another character's face is with it.

 

I have this as a major problem with even the class characters.. It's why I only can handle playing one character for each class, unless I have a male and female one, so two different voices. A main reason why I keep recreating and replaying my same characters over and over

[Estelindis]

Back!

In my story it is Lord Scourge who's imprisoned on Nathema, on Arcann's orders. Arcann is looking to understand the situation regarding Scourge's immortality, his father's ritual, therefore the nature of his father's existence and with a faint hope that if he can somehow replicate certain aspects of that immortality he could use it heal/generate his own injuries. Further spurned by a desire to be greater than, and achieve more than his father did.

I think this is an amazing idea. It sounds like I should read your fic...

Immortality mightn't interest Arcann inherently but as a way to be equal to or greater than his father and heal his own injuries - definitely. I don't know why I didn't think of Scourge right away when I wondered who the character in your fic might be. It's still stunning that he wasn't involved in the KotFE/KotET story.

 

I don't know anything about Scourge apart from what we learn through the JK story. I haven't read any of the novel(s?) involving him. But his immortality is an intriguing thing. Given his opposition to the Emperor, I've wondered why it hasn't been withdrawn. I assume it can't be... I guess, in your fic, Arcann wanted to figure this out as well.

 

 

A year after your disappearance, the Republic gets an anonymous message you were spotted on Zakuul which, fair enough. But how would Jarak, at that point, be certain you are in fact still missing? How could he be so assured Felix himself (and not a Republic envoy or someone else entirely), would show up and walk into the trap? Just luck? He can't have known you're the Outlander because at that point in time, no one knows the identity of the Outlander save for Arcann/Vaylin and those present in the throne room during Valkorion's fall. And if Jarak did know the JC, in this case, is the Outlander then we have to assume he was either keeping extremely close/spying tabs on Arcann and Zakuul, or he was in fact informed by Arcann or Vaylin.

A lot of good questions here and no clear answer that I can see.

We might assume a certain knowledge about the identity of the Outlander (if a Zakuulan reeeeeeally wanted to figure it out) from the main character being on the flagship with Marr. The other "main characters" go missing in a variety of ways but (unless we're headcanoning things for our legacies) only one of the eight classes was on the flagship in any particular playthrough. Marr is known to be dead, and it's possible for a lot of the other people on the flagship to escape if we tell them to go to the escape pods. Perhaps the only notable person whose fate isn't clear is the main character. And they would've been seen by some people between being found and Arcann bringing them before Valkorion. For people in the Republic and the Empire, it's understandable to have no idea if the main character survived. But for people in Zakuul, especially those with notable links to the royal family, perhaps something can be learned.

 

Or perhaps not. Regardless, the question of how Jarak would be guaranteed to get Felix specifically by spreading a rumour is still not clear, as is his way of knowing about the holocron.

 

 

Felix also says the Knights were waiting for him when he walked into the trap. The Knights, at this point, serve Arcann so why would they be assisting Jarak if there are zero ties between Arcann and Jarak?

 

Unless, during Arcann's reign, Vaylin sent Knights on a 'rogue' mission to aid Jarak.

This is a fairly legit point.

The knights serve the Emperor. That's pretty much their reason for being. So why wouldn't Arcann be in charge of whatever they do? But Vaylin, of course, is their leader under Arcann. If she wanted to use them for any particular purpose, she would've been able to do it too. I doubt Arcann would've been interested in detailed reports of every single mission she ordered. So, like you say, it could've been either of them.

 

That said, honestly, neither brother nor sister strikes me as the type interested in arcane knowledge or patient research. At this point in their stories, at least, they both seem immature and impetuous, concerned with raw power and immediate results. Both can certainly nurture a grudge and wait for revenge if circumstances dictate it, but I don't see them actively looking for schemes that would require patience. So, while maybe reading your fic would give me a different point of view on this, I don't really see either of them initiating programmes of torture-research. Simply put, neither of them seems curious enough. I think even Vaylin only demands work from Jarak when she finds it essential, due to discovering she's been conditioned.

 

 

We can try and consider that after Valkorion's death, Jarak acted on his own and continued whichever work, entirely separate from Arcann and not even knowing each other until Vaylin's reign kicks in. Perhaps Valkorion left Knights behind on Nathema after working with Jarak, and those Knights still continued to serve/aid Jarak in his work rather than return to their current Emperor's, Arcann's, side?

I feel like there's a good chance of this. In fact, I think it's the scenario that makes most sense overall.

I wouldn't so much think that Valkorion necessarily left knights behind on Nathema with Jarak as that Jarak has some authority bestowed on him by Valkorion that never lapsed. As far as Arcann was concerned, Valkorion was dead. There was no harm in letting various things he'd commanded continue. (I know some people think Arcann froze the Outlander to keep Valkorion quiescent but I don't think this is supported by the game's dialogue or Arcann's overall characterization.) Unless Arcann took strong personal offence to some ongoing decree of Valkorion - which I guess we can't totally rule out re. Nathema - I imagine he didn't mess with anything. It's not like he actually wanted to do the work of ruling - he just wanted to be Emperor. But even regarding Nathema, while I don't think he liked what was done to Vaylin there, it was done. It couldn't be undone (as far as he knew). So... standing order with Nathema. Like having a Netflix (or SWTOR! ) subscription you never use but forgot to cancel...

 

 

Only three people knew of the holocron in Felix's mind--the JC, Felix, and that doctor Sera Fray. The holocron, best I recall, contains a random assortment of Sith knowledge.

Yes, I think only the JC, Felix, and Sera Fray should know.

There's always Milo Pellam, because it's through his testimony that we worked out something might be up in the first place... But this seems like an outside chance. Talk of a "glowing box" from someone with mental health difficulties I can't imagine gets very far in most audiences. Additionally Darth Ouzal ordered the copy but we've no indication that he knew it was successful or even that he had any idea of the identities of the prisoners used for the attempt.

 

If none of the above-mentioned people's knowledge made its way to Jarak, possibly he noticed something different about Felix but wasn't able to pin it down, hence conducted the experiments (and slowly learned the type of thing Felix's brain was hiding). It doesn't quite match up with Felix's chronology, but it's possible he misunderstood some element of the sequence. But none of this, as you say, makes sense in the context of Felix being someone who'd receive Jarak's attention in the first place. Jarak would have to know there was something worth looking for. Maybe this is just a small slip of writing. Maybe, more properly, it should've been written as Outlander prisoners being funneled to Jarak's work (on the basis of prior orders), and Jarak having the right to take his pick from them (the rest being killed). In such a scenario, the rumour about the JC being on Zakuul simply would've been thrown out to see if anyone bit, rather than being focused on Felix specifically.

 

As for the contents of the holocron, I believe we have absolutely no idea. We know it's a rare, valuable, ancient holocron. Either 1) whatever bits of information Darth Ouzal deciphered from it were interesting enough for him to want a full copy to work on at his leisure, or 2) its background was inherently interesting enough for him to want a copy before he even knew a single thing in it. Notably, it is just a copy. The original may still exist in the possession of the Dark Council. It's not something everyone can read - a noted expert of Darth rank was needed to decipher it. But if Vitiate could get it, I doubt he'd have any problems with it.

 

 

It could be that beyond our knowing, Valkorion/Vitiate was aware of this situation as well and Felix was basically on his 'wishlist' of items and people to obtain for examination or safekeeping due to what might be hidden in his mind. And perhaps, despite his 'death', Jarak carried on that work and that's how he knew of Felix. All of that takes a lot of reaching though.

While the holocron might be missing now, it was around while Vitiate was Emperor.

In theory, couldn't he have accessed it then, telling the Dark Council to give it to his servants? But, then, isn't part of this whole story that his attention was absent (supposedly while living as Valkorion?) for a long period of his Imperial rule? (I honestly still don't have the timeline quite figured out for that.) I feel like, if Vitiate had been conscious enough of the holocron to be interested in it during the time before the JK killed him, he had ample time to look into it. Maybe he just didn't feel in any hurry because an immortal being has all the time in the world...

 

Felix also keeps mentioning that Zakuul did this to him which again implies Arcann's knowledge of the situation. If the colony he was kept at wasn't on/near Zakuul, or if Arcann and his Zakuul forces had no involvement whatsoever then he wouldn't be saying Zakuul did it to him--he'd be mentioning only Jarak himself.

Good point.

Jarak worked for Valkorion but, as an anomid, came from the "Outlands" originally. Alone, he wouldn't be considered "Zakuul." However, we know that the world where Felix was kept was "remote" but still part of the Eternal Empire. Plus I doubt Jarak was the one personally and directly doing all the experiments. I feel like there's a good chance he did some of them, given how interested he was in his field and what an unusual case Felix represented, but I think he had a supply of test subjects beyond our dear companion. In most cases, I imagine he designed the courses of experiments, supervising and dictating what should be done in his facilities.

 

That rather begs the question of who was doing the day-to-day work. Of course we don't know, but I imagine it to be Zakuulan personnel seconded to Jarak on the basis of Valkorion's prior authorization. After all, Felix was in a military prison. I doubt it housed just him. There would've been plenty of prisoners, guards, and staff carrying out experiments. If Arcann knew about that work and authorized it to continue, he probably felt "why not, better Zakuul gains from such work than someone else." But I wouldn't be at all surprised if it just escaped his notice.

 

Just my far too verbiose thoughts, for what they're worth. Thanks for sharing your own ideas.

 

Ultimately, the minute level of detail at which we're examining this ignores an overall problem with companion returns, namely that the game acts like our characters aren't persistently inquiring about the missing companions. Especially husbands and wives!

I don't publish much fic on the internet, but I do write a good bit privately, and in some of those fics the consular asks people about Felix. She particularly asks people like Arcann and Malcom, who exerted wide influence on their factions. So, in my particular version of filling in the gaps, Arcann can't have known because he would've told the consular when she asked. But we can't actually do this in the game, so it's left as a pothole for our story's plausibility to fall into.

 

 

Annoying isn't it how the mind just starts to rattle and won't shush? I was talking about the reunion with my friend, a Felix-mancer, and all these curiosities popped up and I felt so bad poking holes.

Lol, it took me so long to write this that you have time to post again! Nice to know mine isn't the only mind that rattles around like this. And... your friend has good taste.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Estelindis

[Estelindis]

If we were ever going to interact with these characters again, I'd feel differently. My point is that it's not really much of a sendoff for a beloved character.

Perhaps we will never see content for these characters again. I personally live in hope. But, eh, we've barely had any lines at all from them since vanilla, compared with the number of lines they get in vanilla, so probably chances are not amazing. I wouldn't rule it out, but also I wouldn't have massive faith that we will. So I guess your point is fair.

 

You're assumption is that he recovers eventually. With no canon support for any given stance, it's just as likely that he'd withdraw further and further into himself until the only thing keeping him from taking his life is not wanting to hurt the Consular (and that would only be necessary if he sends a generic "all love interests send a letter here" letter at some point - otherwise we can safely assume that he does end up dead). Support and love are nice but they don't fix the kind of trauma Felix has experienced.

Um... do you really think so? That we can safely assume he ends up dead? :(

Not at all to understate what he suffered... I have no idea how he's still sane (I guess sane is a relative term?)... but after surviving five years of that and making it out to see the sky again, he'd want to end his life? I suppose (this is horrible to think) maybe he had no choice in his survival... maybe they kept him alive against his will... so perhaps him living to tell the tale is no great indication of anything. But, to me, doing such a drastic thing implies a grim present and a hopeless future, moreso than an awful past. Perhaps, to the degree that he has terrible memories that linger with him, which may still feel present when he sleeps, the past is still here. But other things are here too. I think he feels hope. He looks up at the sky and is glad to see it.

 

Love and support may not be enough to ease all hurts, but they can help. My benchmark would be: what's he like five years from now? Even by the point when as much time has passed after this trauma as during it, I wouldn't expect him to have totally overcome it. But I feel like he would be in a much better place, significantly healed.

I'm definitely feeling the "women like to save their men right?" from the male LI returns. I'm sure to some extent that's based on the popularity of Theron and Arcann as LIs. It's starting to feel like all the same story though.

Yeah, and the one guy I don't think we do much to save, Koth, seems to have pretty much disappeared. Maybe Doc will return right as rain, after having a very nice time - who knows?

Edited May 7, 2018 by Estelindis