The post above yours literally references multiple Zakuulan characters. I didn't say their names but I meant Senya, Arcann, and Koth. I've advocated throughout this thread having all three of them get something in regard to the plot and there was at least one other person doing the same. But if anyone had to get cut - Senya isn't a romance option and doesn't have the same connections that would make sense for using Koth.

I think it feels kind of worse with Koth because there are some obvious connections (the Gravestone, the villain's motivation) and he's the only Knights era/universal LI to not make an appearance. The equally killable Arcann got to show up but Koth didn't. Plus, it was a big missed opportunity to have the Zakuulan characters involved with the last story set in the Knights era of things.

It's only a paradox if he's alive and dead in the same character's story. Otherwise it follows on logically. Character killed Koth > Koth does not appear. Character didn't kill Koth > Koth appears. He can't be super important and irreplaceable in the plot but there's (theoretically) room between "plot revolves around this character" and "this character has been written out entirely."

Having long, in depth stories, sure. But at this rate we may as well all kill all the companions and romance Lana because it's the only way worth playing. In terms of narrative, saving a companion is the same as killing them. I mean, why even make it a choice at this stage? If they can't ever use that companion again there's no reason to make a decision for them. This. Why even bother caring about any of the characters besides Theron and Lana? New, old, they all get treated like they don't exist after a certain point. Part of our investment in the story is our investment in the characters and it's not worth caring with the way things are going.

I really miss companion conversations. There's definitely a limit to what they can do with their resources but some tiny acknowledgement would be nice. I wish they'd used Koth and Senya (and even a little more Arcann would be nice) in the last story arc since it's the last time Zakuul will be relevant. Instead we get more Theron and Lana. Having Koth, Jorgan, Kaliyo, Torian, or Vette as an LI was a totally great experience. Much acknowledgement. Edit: In all fairness, KotET did give us a small something to acknowledge the characters we saved. But this last arc was pretty much the same thing either way.

Yeah, the true source of my bitterness. Saving characters is pointless. People who want to kill them get the satisfaction of killing them and people who don't want to... don't have their Companions & Contacts entry moved to a different section?

I'm not sure the actual healing will be useful to Felix. It wasn't to the president of Balmorra. Mundane, non-Forcey or other brain bending things may make take it off the table (there's a Jedi on Alderaan who prevents a man from having his mind taken by the Killiks but that's resisting an outside force too). Therapy is probably the best bet unless they're trying to do something with the holocron. I kind of wonder if the Voss may be able to help with that. Would it be seen kind of like a poison that could be removed with sufficient strength? Oof, same. I wish Arcann had a real redemption story and not a last minute alignment change. It's entirely possible they didn't know where he was. Or, awful as it is, didn't want to antagonize Arcann and the Eternal Fleet by staging a rescue for one soldier. There was probably potential for significant loss of life beyond him if the Republic tried anything. There's a lot more to it than just not rescuing him but I can totally see how he'd grasp for something to blame for what happened to him. Especially when he felt so abandoned. No worries. ^^ I just can't bring myself to take the original versions of a lot of my characters through the Knights stuff. My Felix romance Consular is a remake. I'm torn between "literally any new content for favorite characters" and "they just aren't part of this story" a lot. I'm glad you understand. I'm sorry if I came off as angry. ^^ More Felix is always good! If I don't expect anything, I can't be disappointed, right? Still there's always a tiny bit of hope that there will be something more.

I'm skeptical but willing to wait and see how 6.0 goes. I kind of hope we don't get new companions. We have about a million of them right now. Not that any of them can be used for much of anything in the narrative, being killable. The "kill 'em all" approach is really disheartening if you don't want to kill them all.

I doubt it was the VA being busy. Lana and Theron are the only important characters. It's been that way and will continue that way.

If you back a page there are two mentions of Jedi healing/the Voss being a solution and probably more before that. Suggesting that Felix might not recover brought on a few responses of "but space magic!" It would be interesting to see how he copes with the Alliance collapsing. I hope he can come around from his hatred of the Republic too. For my light side Consular, they aren't perfect but they are better than the Sith Empire. It will hurt to choose them with Felix so angry though. I don't think it's a rational response on his part but trauma does things to you. Oh no, I'm not unimaginative or unable to visual things. I use the canon as a jumping off point for all kinds of things I like to imagine but know we'll never see in canon. I mean, in my favorite version of events this never happens because my Consular who romances Felix isn't the Outlander and they were never separated. I'm not sure how to make myself clearer though. This is Felix's canon 'goodbye' as it were. I wish BioWare had seen fit to give him more than severe PTSD. It's not the end of Felix's story for the players, we'll imagine and discuss and write all kinds of outcomes, but it feels kind of bad that this is his final note in game.

Yeah, I was joking. ^^ I'm just pointing out that there's really not a magic, instant fix for Felix. He has support so recovery is a good possibility. But sometimes even with support, people don't get better. So while I am very much in favor of recovery, I don't see it as the only possible outcome. I do expect the once-an-expansion romance letter (that will address the current events of the story with maybe a small reference to his personal stuff) and maybe him loitering in the background of a scene or two. But this will be the last actual interaction/conversation with the character.

I kind of feel like BioWare sees killing Koth as objectively the right choice. So for those of us who made the wrong choice, this is just how things are gonna be from now on.

This has gotten away from me. My point really isn't that people shouldn't imagine that Felix will recover in time and things will be happy. I think most of us will imagine things go that way! My point is that the final canon, in-game interaction with a beloved character leaves his story on such a sad note. For me, it's a disappointing way to end his story in canon.

You'll have to remind me of who that was. I know in the first part we see the Consular curing people with an outside influence on their minds. In the second act, the Consular fails to heal the president of Balmorra because his trauma wasn't related to outside influences. The third act has the Voss curing physical wounds by taking strength from the Consular. They also realign Arcann's alignment but that's not really healing a mundane form of trauma. Unless Felix goes dark side monster, it doesn't seem like it will be helpful.

Still an issue after 5.9. I'd like to play my cathar again one day, please. https://imgur.com/a/JW7XWdf

I think class specific returns are done for. Killable universal companions may have a slim chance but the amount of character juggling that would go into class specific returns - without returning to companion conversations - probably means this is the end for them. If we can assume in one direction, we can assume in another. And if he never shows up again, even as background furniture or sending a letter, then sure, why couldn't he be? A five year benchmark isn't going to happen though. His story ends in that one moment and we'll never know the extent of his trauma or how he recovers. We've never seen anything other than physical wounds or outside affects on the mind be healed. As far as I know, they can't magically fix a traumatized mind that's traumatized in mundane ways. And Star Wars has no therapists.

If we were ever going to interact with these characters again, I'd feel differently. My point is that it's not really much of a sendoff for a beloved character. You're assumption is that he recovers eventually. With no canon support for any given stance, it's just as likely that he'd withdraw further and further into himself until the only thing keeping him from taking his life is not wanting to hurt the Consular (and that would only be necessary if he sends a generic "all love interests send a letter here" letter at some point - otherwise we can safely assume that he does end up dead). Support and love are nice but they don't fix the kind of trauma Felix has experienced. I'm definitely feeling the "women like to save their men right?" from the male LI returns. I'm sure to some extent that's based on the popularity of Theron and Arcann as LIs. It's starting to feel like all the same story though. (Reduced the quote to the last paragraph.) I mean this is a lot to say that some characters have nothing left but the PC (Felix and Vector in particular). I don't feel like that's a great way to end their stories. It feels very much like it's intended to make the player feel good about themself for 'saving' these characters while at the same time giving them a straight up tragic ending. I don't consider anything that can be assumed as part of their ending. Imagination can go a lot of different ways. So their end note - the last we ever see of them - is really miserable. And like I said, if there was any hope for the continuation of their stories, I would feel differently. But since this is Very Definitely The End for them, it just feels bad.

Given the villain and his beliefs in 5.9, it would have been a good place to handle Koth's development with his faith in Valkorion, since they totally dropped the ball on that in the Knights story. That other killable character got some character development in their short appearance. I know the answer to 'why not Koth' but I still think it would have been a good place to do something with him. This is almost certainly the last bit of Zakuul-centric story, I feel like they should have had all the Zakuulan characters get something (I mean, there's a grand total of three of them - they could have managed something for the two who were totally left out).

To be perfectly honest, knowing that these little class specific reunions are the last time we'll have any interaction with these characters, I wish they'd at least give them more neutral endings. Felix's canon ending is very unhappy. Fixing it in headcanon and fic is all well and good, but the canon is that he gets an unhappy ending. Vector too, for that matter, and Andronikos got a pretty bad deal too. Not that I'm advocating bad things happening to female characters but there's a pretty distinct pattern of treating the return of the the PC as the only good thing that happens to male LIs. It would be nice to give them a more hopeful send off, given the circumstances.

You'd think since the last storyline was heavy on Zakuul lore/an enemy from Zakuul, that Senya would make at least a token appearance. 5.9 would have been a good place to let Senya have a moment, especially given who else got one.

I'm glad to have Felix back! I'm kind of disappointed at the choice for his story though. Given that he's unlikely to have any new content after this, it leaves him in a really bad place with no hope of any recovery in canon. I'm afraid not. Like the other returning romances, you can only restart an existing relationship.

You're not the only one! I came back to the forums to say I missed the goof. I'm glad someone else had already made a thread. ^^ Hopefully Arcann marks a change of heart about content for killable characters! (In which case, bring back everyone except Vitiate/Valkorian/Whatever his name is this week. We're all tired of him.)

Yeah, it's pretty glaring that Koth doesn't show up but another killable character does. You'd think he'd be around for something that involved the Gravestone too. And since he's the only KotFE/KotET era romance that got left out (including the other very killable option), I hope they plan to give people who romanced him something in the future.

I encountered it on both Ragate and Ezra (the old lady in the Rustyards on Hutta) today. Maybe a problem with the old female face texture?

As you made the point so eloquently, Captain America wasn't the leader, he was a very special soldier but still just a soldier. No one tried to put Captain America in the Oval Office. The Outlander ostensibly is the leader of the entire Alliance. Captain America only gave orders in field operations, which is exactly what I'm suggesting the Outlander should be, since that's all they really do. That would keep expectations about what kind of power the Outlander had inside the Alliance in check, since they don't appear to have any power inside the Alliance. And their awesomeness could still be a big inspiration to the rank and file. The paradigm from vanilla stories hasn't actually changed: the character recruits, leads small groups, does awesome things but takes their orders from elsewhere. It would make sense for the story to treat them like they were still in that position, instead of the person who would have given them orders. They'd know about SCORPIO's betrayal because she keeps making things worse and they'd know that the Outlander did nothing at all to prevent Vaylin from trying to take the Eternal Throne, since she promptly does so. They'd know that Senya was missing. That might not know that she betrayed the Alliance but they'd know she was missing. And if you drove Koth away, they'd know the Gravestone had been lost too. But I mostly meant that the remains of your inner circle aren't nearly concerned enough. Lana and Theron respond to the events of chapter sixteen with, "But hey, more rank and file! Look at how inspiring your total failure was!" The Outlander is betrayed by no less than two of their inner circle in the span of maybe four months. They leave the Eternal Throne in worse hands than Arcann's. They failed and come across as incapable of keeping their own house in order. Chapter sixteen's ending should have been much more pessimistic.