How the hell...

[EmilmcUgly]

Are you allowed to say "hell" on here? Guess I'll find out.

 

I know I'll never be great at PVP. Everybody just moves too fast for me to really know what's going on, usually. But still, I think I've gotten to be all right. I'm generally near the top in medals in regs (which I know doesn't mean all that much), and I get my share of solo kills, and I understand the objectives and how to reach them, and I really try to concentrate on staying alive.

 

But then I give ranked a try, and [insert stronger language here]. I don't always die quickly, but frequently enough that ranked players don't want me around. I'm not blaming them - people put a lot of effort into that and having a weak player on your team hurts you.

 

The thing is, all the other players seem able to mitigate damage to a degree that I've been unable to reach. THEY ALL STAY ALIVE A LONG TIME. I think I know my class pretty well (I play a sin mostly - deception right now), and understand how to use my breakers and heals and whatnot. I've read the guides. My equipment is a mix of 242 to 248. And I can't figure out how they manage to stay alive so long. Somebody explain it to me.

 

I am expecting at least a few "L2P Noob!" comments, so don't let me down.

[EmilmcUgly]

UPDATE - yes, you can say hell. Unless there are moderators who haven't been by yet. Stay tuned.

[Banderal]

Star wars morality, where you can have women's slave outfits, and stripper pole dancing, but NO SWEARING ALLOWED!

 

As for staying alive, here are my naive opinions. You don't mention class/spec for the people you say are staying alive. But that matters. I don't see this discussed much, so maybe I'm way off base, but I always laugh when someone playing a merc, say, takes a shot at the DPS of someone playing something like a sin (like I play, but I'm not biased at all ). When a merc gets focused, they pop one of their "attack me, please attack me!" shields, and just keep on pew-pewing. When I get focused, I pop my escape, run away, and hope to hell (there's that word again!) that the game decides I'm out of combat after I hide, so I can heal up. And usually I'm not, so I have to stand there for 30 seconds doing nothing. Basically, some classes just have better dcds.

 

There's lots of other possible reasons too. They might have a healer, or just a better healer, or an off healer. Or they might be better at using their Cc, interrupts and other abilities to shut down the DPS of the person/persons attacking them. They might be better at LoSing to cut down on the incoming damage. They might have a tank taking 50% of their damage for them.

 

But from what I've read, if it's solo ranked, then probably they hack.

[wadecounty]

Star wars morality, where you can have women's slave outfits, and stripper pole dancing, but NO SWEARING ALLOWED!

 

As for staying alive, here are my naive opinions. You don't mention class/spec for the people you say are staying alive. But that matters. I don't see this discussed much, so maybe I'm way off base, but I always laugh when someone playing a merc, say, takes a shot at the DPS of someone playing something like a sin (like I play, but I'm not biased at all ). When a merc gets focused, they pop one of their "attack me, please attack me!" shields, and just keep on pew-pewing. When I get focused, I pop my escape, run away, and hope to hell (there's that word again!) that the game decides I'm out of combat after I hide, so I can heal up. And usually I'm not, so I have to stand there for 30 seconds doing nothing. Basically, some classes just have better dcds.

 

There's lots of other possible reasons too. They might have a healer, or just a better healer, or an off healer. Or they might be better at using their Cc, interrupts and other abilities to shut down the DPS of the person/persons attacking them. They might be better at LoSing to cut down on the incoming damage. They might have a tank taking 50% of their damage for them.

 

But from what I've read, if it's solo ranked, then probably they hack.

 

This post is spot on. Deception is decent defensively, but not good, and will often enough be considered one of the first kill targets in a solo ranked game. You don't really have any good "get off me" cooldowns, deflection and shroud can both be easily burned through by using the right attacks, and using force speed specifically for DR puts you at a disadvantage for movement, the advantages you have are an abundance of CC and the ability to disengage, heal up and reengage, but the former is wasted if the team isn't coordinated and the latter only saves you but puts the group at a disadvantage.

 

In solo ranked 4 DPS games a lot of it just comes down to class choice even more than player skill. Mercs, Maras, and Snipers have an inherent advantage in that they can DPS through focus so they do the best. Operatives are in a middle ground, their damage avoidance and self heals are both pretty good but both cost them the ability to deal damage. Then you have Juggs, PT's, Sins and Sorcs, which are all kind of considered free kills... not actually, but even the best of the best will die to focus fire within 30 seconds. Sins and Sorcs are in a slightly better spot thanks to vanish and god bubble, but all 4 classes will die to focus fire much quicker than the other 4.

 

That being said, you can still have success as one of those classes. First you have to have the mindset that you will be focused, and either use your teammates to help shield you or be prepared to kite, or really whatever it takes. Next, do as much damage as possible! Don't be the guy who dies and only does 10k, that's one GCD worth of attack, hell spam aoe if you have to but try to help even if you know you're dying first. And third, try to use your defensives properly, you won't live as long as a mara/sniper/merc/operative, but you should be able to at least survive for 20 seconds out of the gate, and if the focus is hard and relentless, vanish and heal up so you can give it another go. Hell if your team is really tanky you can even wait to reengage until your vanish is almost off cooldown again.

 

EDIT: Important tip about stun break, you always want to save it for the white bar at the start, but if you didn't get defensives popped and you think you'll die within the first stun, break and immediately pop shroud or vanish, this will save you from the double stun which is certain death.

Edited April 24, 2018 by wadecounty

[ilfiriel_azurian]

Hello,

 

I basically only play sin deception in both regs and ranked (I am not that good at ranked but I get around), I kinda stopped playing ranked this season (did some grouped rank when it popped). My advice is similar to the ones before but I have two suggestions to add. Basically, when your pop arrives immediately stealth then take the pop, that way opposition cannot target you and put signs on you. Then don't engage until everyone else is fighting. In solo there is generally a lack of co-ordinated target switching so engaging a bit later will mess up the enemy plan at least for a little. When you engage immediately go for your full opener then pop shroud if you feel you are being focused: that sould mitigate at least some burst. Always use overcharge saber in conjunction with Surging Charge as it will heal you much more. Also when you stealth out make sure you have a force speed ready in case the other team has the reflex of AOEing. Finally you should always use the ability that gives you a 3 second shroud on your force cloak, that way you can't get unslteathed by force and tech when you escape. Know your maps and where you can hide, regen, and re-engage.

 

Best of luck

[EmilmcUgly]

You don't mention class/spec for the people you say are staying alive. But that matters

 

Yeah, I have very little idea how to tell who's what spec unless you can see they're a healer or tank pre 4x4, although I guess you always know a merc or op will have some healing, for example. But as for a dot DPS vs burst DPS? No clue.

 

... they might be better at using their Cc, interrupts and other abilities to shut down the DPS of the person/persons attacking them. They might be better at LoSing to cut down on the incoming damage.

 

Which is what I don't think I'm ever going to get better at, just because it all happens so fast.

 

But from what I've read, if it's solo ranked, then probably they hack.

 

Okay, that's good advice. Where can I learn that? (Just kidding, I swear!)

 

Important tip about stun break, you always want to save it for the white bar at the start, but if you didn't get defensives popped and you think you'll die within the first stun, break and immediately pop shroud or vanish, this will save you from the double stun which is certain death.

 

Also good advice, if I can react with the right timing, which is iffy.

 

My advice is similar to the ones before but I have two suggestions to add.

 

Those are good suggestions, too, although it'll make me feel like a slacker. That's the thing, I hate to feel like I'm not pulling my weight, but I guess if I'm dead I'm still not doing that, am I.

Edited April 24, 2018 by EmilmcUgly

[Aeneas_Falco]

Are you allowed to say "hell" on here? Guess I'll find out.

 

I know I'll never be great at PVP. Everybody just moves too fast for me to really know what's going on, usually.

 

Not to talk you out playing an Assassin...but if speed and reaction times are major issues for you that you don't think you can improve, you may at least want to consider levelling up a ranged alt.

 

Ranged specs are a lot more forgiving when it comes to speed and reaction time because positioning matters a lot less when dealing damage. Just don't go for a Sorc DPS. Despite being ranged that would be worse trade for a Sin at the moment.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Aeneas_Falco

[LordTurin]

Honestly, the other thing is just play ranked. If you are doing good at regs, top medals, top dmg, etc., you won't really learn how to get any better at ranked by playing regs, you just have to queue for ranked. It'll be toxic and terrible the first bunch of matches you do (so maybe spread your playing out), but there is no "ranked light" in this game, so there is really no way to get good at ranked except by playing ranked. Asking for advice is obviously good, and the suggestions above are good (I wouldn't consider sins one of the weaker classes though, not FOTM but certainly not on the level of pts/jug dps), but there is no real magic "get good at ranked" strategy aside from doing ranked, ignoring the toxic folks who insult you, and improving that way.

[septru]

I have a few dps characters sitting at 2k

 

He's a hacker/cheater confirmed. Only people at 2k are hackers and cheaters. Dont listen to him. That's how people stay alive so long. They hack. Solo ranked is full of hackers. The only real legit gods of swtor have sub 1k elo.

[EmilmcUgly]

Guys, this is all great stuff (except for that last post by Septru, which I have to think is just a lazy attempt at trolling). I have thought that I could play other classes to maybe learn what to expect better - I've played them all in PVE up to level 70, but don't always play them in PVP. Playing a ranged character is a good idea, but damn I love my sin. I am thinking about switching to Hatred, for the extra range and the self-heals. We'll see.

 

Yellow, couple questions for you.

 

3. learn the spike > low slash opener (I can explain if you don't know how it works)

 

I don't. Low slash is a mezz, isn't it? So it breaks on damage? Are you casting those two on two different enemies?

 

If you are a clicker and genuinely want to get better at the game you should stop clicking

 

You mean using the mouse to activate abilities? Yeah, I keybind and mouse turn.

 

Thanks, I really appreciate the feedback.

[Schoock]

I don't. Low slash is a mezz, isn't it? So it breaks on damage? Are you casting those two on two different enemies?

 

Technically it's a mez, but it's bugged.

[yellow_]

I am thinking about switching to Hatred, for the extra range and the self-heals.

For what it's worth the self healing does almost nothing. Deception is tankier than hatred generally because of the 15% damage reduction passive on dark embrace, which you can realistically have running 100% of the time.

 

I don't. Low slash is a mezz, isn't it? So it breaks on damage? Are you casting those two on two different enemies?

Rather than type an essay I just recorded a video:

 

Basically damage that happens soon enough after the ranged low slash (the one you throw) does not actually break the mezz. The discharge is essentially free here. Opening in this manner either forces the target to start the fight extremely far behind or use their breaker extremely early (either is good for you). You're maximizing the amount of stuff you can get to do to them before they can even react.

 

Also, people panic break the low slash all the time which is an even bigger win when it happens.

 

You mean using the mouse to activate abilities?

ye

[wadecounty]

 

Rather than type an essay I just recorded a video:

 

 

I swear I'm not trying to mess with your tools or get sin nerfed, haven't even done ranked since like season 5, but how does this work exactly? I think I get it because I've noticed it before sort of, but ranged low slash keeps them hard stunned for the full duration no matter what?

 

I was under the impression it still breaks on damage but there's like a 1 second delay, which is still kind of an unfair advantage but not as large as this.

 

Also quick question about insta-WW since you seem to know a lot about sin, is there something that causes it to not get the 2 second stun when broken on damage part even when the utility is taken? I've noticed sometimes my WW breaks immediately on damage even with the utility, with no secondary stun effect.

[Schoock]

I swear I'm not trying to mess with your tools or get sin nerfed, haven't even done ranked since like season 5, but how does this work exactly? I think I get it because I've noticed it before sort of, but ranged low slash keeps them hard stunned for the full duration no matter what?

 

No, not the full duration, but for about ~2 seconds.

 

Also quick question about insta-WW since you seem to know a lot about sin, is there something that causes it to not get the 2 second stun when broken on damage part even when the utility is taken? I've noticed sometimes my WW breaks immediately on damage even with the utility, with no secondary stun effect.

 

Full resolve.

[wadecounty]

No, not the full duration, but for about ~2 seconds.

 

 

 

Full resolve.

 

OK both those things make sense, thanks for the reply.

[yellow_]

I swear I'm not trying to mess with your tools or get sin nerfed, haven't even done ranked since like season 5, but how does this work exactly? I think I get it because I've noticed it before sort of, but ranged low slash keeps them hard stunned for the full duration no matter what?

 

I was under the impression it still breaks on damage but there's like a 1 second delay, which is still kind of an unfair advantage but not as large as this.

All I know is that there's some period of time during which damage will not actually break the mezz, it seems to be about 1 GCD. Abilities that hit immediately and only once like discharge, maul, or reaping strike do not break it. Abilities that deal damage later in the GCD such as voltaic slash and ball lightning (probably your auto attack too, but I haven't explicitly tested that) seem to always break it

 

since you're mezzed for the low slash GCD and then the discharge (or whatever) GCD as well it effectively has you do nothing for 3 seconds; however I don't think it makes sense to classify it as a 3 second hard stun as any damage coming in after 1.5s (such as the sin's teammates) will actually break it

Edited April 26, 2018 by yellow_

[Elusive_Thing]

All I know is that there's some period of time during which damage will not actually break the mezz, it seems to be about 1 GCD. Abilities that hit immediately and only once like discharge, maul, or reaping strike do not break it. Abilities that deal damage later in the GCD such as voltaic slash and ball lightning (probably your auto attack too, but I haven't explicitly tested that) seem to always break it

 

since you're mezzed for the low slash GCD and then the discharge (or whatever) GCD as well it effectively has you do nothing for 3 seconds; however I don't think it makes sense to classify it as a 3 second hard stun as any damage coming in after 1.5s (such as the sin's teammates) will actually break it

Would be curious to see how it reacts to Surging Charge as well, but it's hard to test in Warzones. Guessing Surging Charge procs too quickly to break the mezz, but that's just speculation from me.

[Lhancelot]

For what it's worth the self healing does almost nothing. Deception is tankier than hatred generally because of the 15% damage reduction passive on dark embrace, which you can realistically have running 100% of the time.

 

Rather than type an essay I just recorded a video:

 

Basically damage that happens soon enough after the ranged low slash (the one you throw) does not actually break the mezz. The discharge is essentially free here. Opening in this manner either forces the target to start the fight extremely far behind or use their breaker extremely early (either is good for you). You're maximizing the amount of stuff you can get to do to them before they can even react.

 

Also, people panic break the low slash all the time which is an even bigger win when it happens.

 

ye

 

You know, I have had some sins that seemed really, really adept at locking me down and doing significant damage, especially on their opening attack, I couldn't figure it out, but it seemed like I was starting the fight quite late so to speak. I think this is exactly what they are doing lol. I never could figure it out, but this would explain that situation.

[Banderal]

You know, I have had some sins that seemed really, really adept at locking me down and doing significant damage, especially on their opening attack, I couldn't figure it out, but it seemed like I was starting the fight quite late so to speak. I think this is exactly what they are doing lol. I never could figure it out, but this would explain that situation.

 

And now I'm one more person that is going to be trying this. I'm leveling a shadow on "your" server, btw, lhance - so be watching for this soon! I'm coming for you man!

 

(Also thanks yellow_ for making the vid. I did some googling and could not find what you were talking about and was about to post "pls explain", but you already did. )

[DavidAtkinson]

Are you allowed to say "hell" on here? Guess I'll find out.

 

I know I'll never be great at PVP. Everybody just moves too fast for me to really know what's going on, usually. But still, I think I've gotten to be all right. I'm generally near the top in medals in regs (which I know doesn't mean all that much), and I get my share of solo kills, and I understand the objectives and how to reach them, and I really try to concentrate on staying alive.

 

But then I give ranked a try, and [insert stronger language here]. I don't always die quickly, but frequently enough that ranked players don't want me around. I'm not blaming them - people put a lot of effort into that and having a weak player on your team hurts you.

 

The thing is, all the other players seem able to mitigate damage to a degree that I've been unable to reach. THEY ALL STAY ALIVE A LONG TIME. I think I know my class pretty well (I play a sin mostly - deception right now), and understand how to use my breakers and heals and whatnot. I've read the guides. My equipment is a mix of 242 to 248. And I can't figure out how they manage to stay alive so long. Somebody explain it to me.

 

I am expecting at least a few "L2P Noob!" comments, so don't let me down.

 

You are not alone with this problem.A large portion of the player base experienced/ces the same thing and it's one of the reasons why ranked solo que is mostly dead or very low in population...

 

You see, if you are good in regs, you get a lot of medals but probably means that you will get instant killed or destroyed in ranked because ranked is a totally different thing from regs. You probably noticed how you do pretty well in unranked arenas but are kinda terrible in ranked ones ?

 

First of all you might be competing against players who have thousands of ranked games under their belts where as you ? you barely have a few dozen. Those people play only ranked and know almost everything there is to know.

 

Compared to regs, in ranked you have to be very fast at everything... reaction time and situational awareness is crucial. If you are a keyboard turner or a clicker, you gonna be in big trouble because your reaction times are going to be even slower and mr. "6k games under his belt" knows exactly what to do and how to end you fast.

 

And don't forget that you can play thousands of unranked games, you will never learn to be competitive in ranked. You have to get over the hardest where which is toxic behavior from other players when you fail because you lack experience... This is where most newcomers to ranked kinda fail and give up. If you can get over that and realize that at the time being you cannot do more, BUT will get better practice, you might become a top player or decent player in ranked.

 

Just que all the time, ask for help, read guides and you will improve with practice.

 

I know from my own experience that if don't que ranked for a week and then start queing, I am kinda horrible... because I become used to regs playstyle. I should que on daily basis to keep myself in shape.

Edited April 26, 2018 by DavidAtkinson

[nepochop]

This reminded me of a funny story when I was living in the United States. I was in 6th grade and words like "hell" or "damm it" were considered the highest evil! Well coming from EU it was extremely funny for me as such words are pretty common like if you would say plate or box! So I guess its fine to say it.

[CommunityDroidEN]

UPDATE - yes, you can say hell. Unless there are moderators who haven't been by yet. Stay tuned.

 

'tis fine

 

Happy Posting,

CommunitySupport

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by CommunityDroidEN

[yellow_]

lol what tf Edited April 26, 2018 by yellow_

[DARKheartLAND]

'tis fine

 

Happy Posting,

CommunitySupport

 

 

Ranked rewards when??

[Elusive_Thing]

lol what tf

I think that was the 6.0 expansion you saw there.