Conquest Changes in Game Update 5.9

[Lhancelot]

Thanks devs, for your hard work and intent to improve the game.

 

I agree with this.

 

I believe the number of devs is quite low that are tasked with the challenge of improving the game and feel for them.

 

I may not be totally fulfilled with all the changes they make or I think they need to make, but they deserve some appreciation for the fact they are trying.

 

This is why I believe in the near future they will make conquest less restrictive if the people continue to ask for the system to be more rewarding for alts. Just give the devs and Keith a chance.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Lhancelot

[Stellarcrusade]

This is why I believe in the near future they will make conquest less restrictive if the people continue to ask for the system to be more rewarding for alts. Just give the devs and Keith a chance.

 

Hope you are right. But it really shouldn't take long for them to change the once-per-day-per-legacy to once-per-character-per-day, nor should it take long to multiply all conquest gains by 10x. Maybe the next roadmap will include a line: -reverting back to old conquest system. You may be more optimistic than I am.

Edited August 28, 2018 by Stellarcrusade

[Darevsool]

ANY acknowledgement from the people in charge would be nice about conquest.

 

That being said, I spent this entire last week NOT doing conquest up until last night because the guild I'm in was right on the edge of making it.

Spent 3 hours, got 4 toons through it, 2 on each account....one pair done entirely from biochem crafting, which wasn't cheap on the resources.

 

I've lost most of my interest in it.

 

To be honest, the fact that it took 8 days for someone to post here again, doesn't bode well to any potential future changes.

[Lhancelot]

 

To be honest, the fact that it took 8 days for someone to post here again, doesn't bode well to any potential future changes.

 

It's hard to believe such a limited number of people post on this topic, considering how big of a part conquest is on this game.

 

If I were a true conquest-driven player I'd suggest my conquest guildies come and post on the topic if they want it to change.

 

I guess people rather gripe and complain in the game than take the time to write on an already created thread in support of possible changes to conquest.

 

Apathy is never good and it seems that's what most players feel towards conquest now.

Edited August 28, 2018 by Lhancelot

[Joonbeams]

It's hard to believe such a limited number of people post on this topic, considering how big of a part conquest is on this game.

 

If I were a true conquest-driven player I'd suggest my conquest guildies come and post on the topic if they want it to change.

 

I guess people rather gripe and complain in the game than take the time to write on an already created thread in support of possible changes to conquest.

 

Apathy is never good and it seems that's what most players feel towards conquest now.

 

There are a thousand posts here - 90% of which came after the last dev post. Many of us left detailed feedback here and in other threads and were met with crickets. The devs simply have dug in on this (again, to the extent they even have time to care about something non-Anthem related) and aren't backing down.

 

Here's what's happened for me, a non-conquester, but a bystander affected by the collateral damage from this utterly tone deaf change. I've stopped playing. Not because I don't want to. I very much still have a desire to play this game. But for me, the playstyle I've developed and enjoyed over the years (PvPing through lowbies to 70s, rerolling, crafting, and trying new playstyles again from scratch while rerunning class stories) isn't viable anymore. There isn't enough activity in the lowbies PvP queue to make that playstyle viable anymore. There is a direct correlation between the conquest nerfs and this decline in activity for me (as I've laid out here and elsewhere with data) that by my analysis (and many others) is best explained by the nerf.

 

I log in, queue, run some story, wait for pop, craft bit, run some more story, wait...wait...log off. Rinse. Repeat. Honestly, that's not worth my time, so I don't bother these days. This of course creates a vicious feedback loop where players don't see others queuing, so they don't queue, which then leads to the next player seeing slow queues, who then stops queuing, etc. etc. I've logged 1000x more forum time than game time since conquest.

 

No, I'm not unsubbing, so the devs are still getting the $13-15/mo from me. But when I don't play, I don't spend. And that's a good chunk of money (far more than sub) the devs simply aren't getting for such a petty, obstinate, tone-deaf change. And when people don't play, other people don't have the same enjoyment (see feedback loop comment above) so they stop playing, or play less, etc.

 

But in the end, I don't suppose the BW team has any bandwidth to even care about this, frankly. The limited resources they have for this game (limited even further by Anthem) are already allocated to other things they've set as priorities. This decision is one they've stubbornly made and have elected not to revisit...

Edited August 28, 2018 by Joonbeams

[olagatonjedi]

Most of the questions or suggestions (followed by questions of whether they are listening) have been answered by the devs adequately enough to draw a conclusion. Many just dont like the conclusion, so they continue to ask in different ways, and that still doesnt mean it wasnt answered adequately.

 

Most of this post is simply people disagreeing with the conclusion, which is their right, but none of the suggested changes are "needed" to make conquest successful, and have no guarantees that it will improve the game more than it currently is.

[Joonbeams]

...Many just dont like the conclusion...

 

I quoted the only part of your comment that has merit...

[olagatonjedi]

I quoted the only part of your comment that has merit...

The forum itself gives my posts merit, even if you conclude otherwise. I thank you for your feedback, though.

[Lhancelot]

There are a thousand posts here - 90% of which came after the last dev post. Many of us left detailed feedback here and in other threads and were met with crickets. The devs simply have dug in on this (again, to the extent they even have time to care about something non-Anthem related) and aren't backing down.

 

Here's what's happened for me, a non-conquester, but a bystander affected by the collateral damage from this utterly tone deaf change. I've stopped playing. Not because I don't want to. I very much still have a desire to play this game. But for me, the playstyle I've developed and enjoyed over the years (PvPing through lowbies to 70s, rerolling, crafting, and trying new playstyles again from scratch while rerunning class stories) isn't viable anymore. There isn't enough activity in the lowbies PvP queue to make that playstyle viable anymore. There is a direct correlation between the conquest nerfs and this decline in activity for me (as I've laid out here and elsewhere with data) that by my analysis (and many others) is best explained by the nerf.

 

I log in, queue, run some story, wait for pop, craft bit, run some more story, wait...wait...log off. Rinse. Repeat. Honestly, that's not worth my time, so I don't bother these days. This of course creates a vicious feedback loop where players don't see others queuing, so they don't queue, which then leads to the next player seeing slow queues, who then stops queuing, etc. etc. I've logged 1000x more forum time than game time since conquest.

 

No, I'm not unsubbing, so the devs are still getting the $13-15/mo from me. But when I don't play, I don't spend. And that's a good chunk of money (far more than sub) the devs simply aren't getting for such a petty, obstinate, tone-deaf change. And when people don't play, other people don't have the same enjoyment (see feedback loop comment above) so they stop playing, or play less, etc.

 

But in the end, I don't suppose the BW team has any bandwidth to even care about this, frankly. The limited resources they have for this game (limited even further by Anthem) are already allocated to other things they've set as priorities. This decision is one they've stubbornly made and have elected not to revisit...

 

Your playstyle is exactly how I played during 1.0-4.0, then when they removed wz comms and changed the gearing system to CXP that really altered playing alts particularly lowbies in PVP.

 

When the changes affected my playstyle it wasn't long before I grew bored of the game and I quit for a year and a half, opting to head off to another game that held my interest and fulfilled my gaming hobby.

 

I finally came back after getting bored on that game, and found they "improved" the CXP gearing, but seen they did nothing to improve lowbie-alt PVP gameplay here, so I ran right back into my issue with this game that pushed me away for a year and a half.

 

What happened though is I was able to change my playstyle, I only play 70s now, and find it fulfilling enough to play this game and no others. I log in, PVP on one or two toons, then log out.

 

Granted, my log in time now pales compared to how much I used to play, no doubt about it. I can log in for 1-2 hours a day now - if that. Whereas before I would log many hours per day playing lowbies and mids, leveling all my different toons via PVP.

 

Another habit I changed is I also never buy hypercrates or spend money on CC now, whereas a couple years back I would spend substantial amounts of money on CCs.

 

I suppose the fact I rarely make new toons means I have less need to outfit them differently and I have plenty of old sets of outfits in my collections so I have no need for new ones. If I have to, I just use credits and buy off the GTN and if it's too expensive that's fine too I just go without. I don't feel like I need any of the new cartel market items anymore.

 

So in some ways I ought to thank the studio for taking the game in this direction as I spend less time gaming and I also spend far less money now compared to before. If that's what their objective was, then they did a fine job.

[Damask_Rose]

It's hard to believe such a limited number of people post on this topic, considering how big of a part conquest is on this game.

 

If I were a true conquest-driven player I'd suggest my conquest guildies come and post on the topic if they want it to change.

 

I guess people rather gripe and complain in the game than take the time to write on an already created thread in support of possible changes to conquest.

 

Apathy is never good and it seems that's what most players feel towards conquest now.

 

I've given up. I don't think the devs give a damn about anyone who doesn't play the way they want them to play. My once large and active conquest guild has shriveled up since 5.8. Where once we used to field multiple raid teams, now it's rare to see more than one other person on.

[olagatonjedi]

Your playstyle is exactly how I played during 1.0-4.0, then when they removed wz comms and changed the gearing system to CXP that really altered playing alts particularly lowbies in PVP.

 

When the changes affected my playstyle it wasn't long before I grew bored of the game and I quit for a year and a half, opting to head off to another game that held my interest and fulfilled my gaming hobby.

 

I finally came back after getting bored on that game, and found they "improved" the CXP gearing, but seen they did nothing to improve lowbie-alt PVP gameplay here, so I ran right back into my issue with this game that pushed me away for a year and a half.

 

What happened though is I was able to change my playstyle, I only play 70s now, and find it fulfilling enough to play this game and no others. I log in, PVP on one or two toons, then log out.

 

Granted, my log in time now pales compared to how much I used to play, no doubt about it. I can log in for 1-2 hours a day now - if that. Whereas before I would log many hours per day playing lowbies and mids, leveling all my different toons via PVP.

 

Another habit I changed is I also never buy hypercrates or spend money on CC now, whereas a couple years back I would spend substantial amounts of money on CCs.

 

I suppose the fact I rarely make new toons means I have less need to outfit them differently and I have plenty of old sets of outfits in my collections so I have no need for new ones. If I have to, I just use credits and buy off the GTN and if it's too expensive that's fine too I just go without. I don't feel like I need any of the new cartel market items anymore.

 

So in some ways I ought to thank the studio for taking the game in this direction as I spend less time gaming and I also spend far less money now compared to before. If that's what their objective was, then they did a fine job.

This just shows how BW is trying to please their casual fan as much as possible. I have been on both spectrums of playtime over my long MMO gaming experience, from literally farming/selling in-game items in Everquest to pay for my rent in Los Angeles (yes, i made around $1400/mo over a substantial time frame), to playing only 30-60 minutes a night to complete 1 or 2 quests or pvp or farm a specific item. Ive played at peak times and played on servers at their lowest time mid-morning (2-6am) for a substantial amount of time. What i learned from these significantly varied experiences is that there are many people in each of these groups that are all seeking something completely different than another group. Priorities are different, sinilar to 3rd world countries "needs" vs those of 1st world countries. The needs and perspectives are very different.

 

No doubt these complainers are passionate, which is good, but their view is their view alone and cant be taken as the overall view of the entire playerbase. And thats a huge mistake the complainers make, is believing their opinion is of the majority.

[olagatonjedi]

I've given up. I don't think the devs give a damn about anyone who doesn't play the way they want them to play. My once large and active conquest guild has shriveled up since 5.8. Where once we used to field multiple raid teams, now it's rare to see more than one other person on.

Dynamic game is dynamic. MMOs change. You cant expect to keep the same playstyle in a game that innately changes. Life works similarly, things around you change, and its up to you to change or not, and live with the results.

[Darevsool]

I've given up. I don't think the devs give a damn about anyone who doesn't play the way they want them to play. My once large and active conquest guild has shriveled up since 5.8. Where once we used to field multiple raid teams, now it's rare to see more than one other person on.

 

While the guild I'm in on SF never really had multiple raid teams for conquest points, we did it (pre-5.8) several times a week. Last night we had to get two pugs to do an impromptu TC and DF lockout.

The conquest mainstays provide 30-50 % of the weekly points and last week we hit the goal with an extra 14k points.

That's in a guild of around 300 members...a decent portion of those toons are alts.

 

No matter which system, pre 5.8 or post 5.8, the guilds that win 1st place will always be the guilds with the most members and the least alts.

At least with pre 5.8, guilds like mine that had a TON of alts could get more points with increased effort.

 

The one problem I remember people complaining the most about were the so-called crafting bombs.

Guilds pre-crafting across dozens of toons and getting a TON of points first thing in the new Conquest weeks. Sometimes Millions of points during crafting weeks.

 

While it wasn't cheating, it was dis-heartening for players not in large guilds, and when the rewards for the conquest week were tied to the top 10 spots, it probably did turn "casual" people away from conquest activities.

 

However, the change with 5.8 where you now ONLY have to meet a point goal to get the weekly guild conquest rewards really negates the actual problem with the so-called crafting bombs.

 

The PERCEIVED problem of the huge point gap right away in the first hours was never really an actual problem. It could be, and often was, balanced out over the course of the week by the guilds who wanted to compete.

 

And conquest, especially for the top spot, is absolutely a competition. It is the ultimate game version of PVP among guilds, or alliances of guilds.

[Darevsool]

This just shows how BW is trying to please their casual fan as much as possible. I have been on both spectrums of playtime over my long MMO gaming experience, from literally farming/selling in-game items in Everquest to pay for my rent in Los Angeles (yes, i made around $1400/mo over a substantial time frame), to playing only 30-60 minutes a night to complete 1 or 2 quests or pvp or farm a specific item. Ive played at peak times and played on servers at their lowest time mid-morning (2-6am) for a substantial amount of time. What i learned from these significantly varied experiences is that there are many people in each of these groups that are all seeking something completely different than another group. Priorities are different, sinilar to 3rd world countries "needs" vs those of 1st world countries. The needs and perspectives are very different.

 

No doubt these complainers are passionate, which is good, but their view is their view alone and cant be taken as the overall view of the entire playerbase. And thats a huge mistake the complainers make, is believing their opinion is of the majority.

 

It's not ONLY "Their" view (or mine, or his/hers, or whoever's) but also facts, which Bioware can attest to when they run the numbers you're so fond of talking about.

They SHOULD be able so see the drops in GF queue pops.

Whether they choose to see that it's tied into conquest activity on the other hand....that's up to them.

[olagatonjedi]

It's not ONLY "Their" view (or mine, or his/hers, or whoever's) but also facts, which Bioware can attest to when they run the numbers you're so fond of talking about.

They SHOULD be able so see the drops in GF queue pops.

Whether they choose to see that it's tied into conquest activity on the other hand....that's up to them.

Again, if gf isnt popping as much, it means the FPs dont have enough incentive. If conquest is roght where they want it to be, you cant truly expect them to break conquest to fix FPs. Instead, they should fix FPs independent of conquest.

 

For the majority of these complaints, the problem isn't conquest, its incentive to play the current content. Conquest is a temporary draw, but eventually people will get their guildships built and get their toons aug'd, so again, changing conquest to fix fps and pvp queue times is a piece of tape rather than truly fixing the respective problem.

[kodrac]

No doubt these complainers are passionate, which is good, but their view is their view alone and cant be taken as the overall view of the entire playerbase. And thats a huge mistake the complainers make, is believing their opinion is of the majority.

 

No doubt you are passionate, which is good, but your view is your view alone and cant be taken as the overall view of the entire playerbase. And thats a huge mistake you make, is believing your opinion is of the majority.

 

Edited August 29, 2018 by kodrac

[Darevsool]

Again, if gf isnt popping as much, it means the FPs dont have enough incentive. If conquest is roght where they want it to be, you cant truly expect them to break conquest to fix FPs. Instead, they should fix FPs independent of conquest.

 

For the majority of these complaints, the problem isn't conquest, its incentive to play the current content. Conquest is a temporary draw, but eventually people will get their guildships built and get their toons aug'd, so again, changing conquest to fix fps and pvp queue times is a piece of tape rather than truly fixing the respective problem.

 

That depends on what level of activity the players want from GF pops.

If they want the level of pops that happened pre 5.8, compared to what's happening now with the conquest players not playing as many alts....there seems to be a direct correlation there.

FPs haven't changed, and if queue pops are down due to conquest changes, which is the feeling I get from other players, then the root cause of the decline are the changes in the conquest system.

 

It's like, going way back, bioware planning on 1000 FP queue pops a day.

Then they add conquest and it doubles. Pre 5.8 it stays doubled for a long time and becomes the norm.

Now, with the new conquest system, say it goes down to 1500 a day.

 

You're saying it's the FPs fault and they need better rewards...well...you're not wrong there, but that isn't the entire issue.

When the people who play to participate in conquest can't get points for alts due to the new legacy restrictions, they're not logging those alts at all.

Fewer toons played = fewer GF queue pops

 

Is it the ONLY reason...no.

Taking the crafting mats out of the Vet mode flashpoints was also a dumb move. Not sure what they were thinking with THAT, but it dropped a ton of participation too.

I just happen to think that's a separate issue.

[Darevsool]

I think part of the issue is thinking that Conquest players are a very small minority.

It should be pretty simple to prove that one way or the other, especially this week.

 

How many people run TC on a regular basis?

 

Is it run 100 times a week on average? 1000?

This week it's a pretty big conquest reward.

How many times is it being run this week?

50% more? 100% more?

 

Is that random, or is that the conquest players going out of their way to run content that will give them conquest points?

[TUXs]

I've given up. I don't think the devs give a damn about anyone who doesn't play the way they want them to play. My once large and active conquest guild has shriveled up since 5.8. Where once we used to field multiple raid teams, now it's rare to see more than one other person on.

I'm very sorry to hear that, I know how hard that can be and how much it sucks...the Conquest change had a huge negative impact on the game and Bioware didn't budge...they just don't give a ****.

[Exly]

I'm very sorry to hear that, I know how hard that can be and how much it sucks...the Conquest change had a huge negative impact on the game and Bioware didn't budge...they just don't give a ****.

 

I feel the same way. I wish they would care more, but they just don't seem to care at all.

[AlrikFassbauer]

It's becoming boring : Always the same "big boys" win. Yawn.

[Kgorr]

This week we are supposed to get Conquest points for making Industrial Prefabs and Synthetic Prefabs, yet it does not work when making MK-4 Prefabs. Is this going to be fixed?

[olagatonjedi]

No doubt you are passionate, which is good, but your view is your view alone and cant be taken as the overall view of the entire playerbase. And thats a huge mistake you make, is believing your opinion is of the majority.

 

Fiction is fun!

[olagatonjedi]

That depends on what level of activity the players want from GF pops.

If they want the level of pops that happened pre 5.8, compared to what's happening now with the conquest players not playing as many alts....there seems to be a direct correlation there.

FPs haven't changed, and if queue pops are down due to conquest changes, which is the feeling I get from other players, then the root cause of the decline are the changes in the conquest system.

 

It's like, going way back, bioware planning on 1000 FP queue pops a day.

Then they add conquest and it doubles. Pre 5.8 it stays doubled for a long time and becomes the norm.

Now, with the new conquest system, say it goes down to 1500 a day.

 

You're saying it's the FPs fault and they need better rewards...well...you're not wrong there, but that isn't the entire issue.

When the people who play to participate in conquest can't get points for alts due to the new legacy restrictions, they're not logging those alts at all.

Fewer toons played = fewer GF queue pops

 

Is it the ONLY reason...no.

Taking the crafting mats out of the Vet mode flashpoints was also a dumb move. Not sure what they were thinking with THAT, but it dropped a ton of participation too.

I just happen to think that's a separate issue.

There were numerous complaints about gf queue pops prior to the 5.8 conquest changes, which shows that conquest is not the root cause, but can be a contributor.

[Darevsool]

There were numerous complaints about gf queue pops prior to the 5.8 conquest changes, which shows that conquest is not the root cause, but can be a contributor.

 

That was also before the server merges.

 

The limited time between the server merges and the launch of 5.8 would be the time to do any comparison with, if someone were so inclined.