New Conquest System: First Impressions

[Stellarcrusade]

I have yet to hear a better idea to finally once and for all solving the issue of small and medium guilds being able to fully participate than simply making all planets "small" planets and have a minimum threshold and a planet conquer threshold such that you hit the minimum you get top10 rewards, and if you hit the planet conquer threshold you get all of the benefits of taking a planet (but only the real top guild gets their name on the planet).

 

Meaning, all planets you get say 80k to get the top10 , and 200k to conquer the planet. (i'm going off of what values should be with the current points levels). This means if guild A gets 82k that guild all finishes the top10 guild reward. If guild B, C, and E get over 200k they ALL get the title, ability to remove the personal shield on the named-commander, and purchase the mount.

 

We are already doing this concept now with the new conquest for top10, why not extend it and do it for the planet conquer. Imagine the amount of players/guilds that will be participating in conquest then, not just the players in the top 3 guilds.

[olagatonjedi]

Hey folks,

 

Keep the feedback coming! Seeing your thoughts on the revamp is very helpful to the team. My plan is that tomorrow I want to get the following information into this thread: a breakdown of our intention around the Conquest revamp and a list of the feedback points that all of you have raised. This will allow you to see our thoughts on Conquests and then to highlight the feedback you have stated that we are actively reviewing internally.

 

Thanks everyone!

Ignore the overreaction mentality of the mob. Most of them have admitted through many posts that they will never be pleased with any change, or that they are too resistent to change to improve themselves.

 

In an attempt to give this fickle playerbase exactly what they asked for, they met it with hostility, negativity, poor perspective, and a lack of adaptibility. Ill be interested to see and understand the reasoning behind the changes that were made, and make an educated assessment of whether each aspect was a reasonable change.

[ThomasStarWars]

Ignore the overreaction mentality of the mob. Most of them have admitted through many posts that they will never be pleased with any change, or that they are too resistent to change to improve themselves.

 

In an attempt to give this fickle playerbase exactly what they asked for, they met it with hostility, negativity, poor perspective, and a lack of adaptibility. Ill be interested to see and understand the reasoning behind the changes that were made, and make an educated assessment of whether each aspect was a reasonable change.

 

i mean, all i want is my pvp participation and random flashpoint repeatables back in.

[Exly]

They can keep the current system, it just needs tweaks, like repeatable PvP, GSP, FP's and a helluva lot more points. And every goal should be PER character, nothing should ever be once per Legacy. Alts are too important in this game.

 

If they can fix this thing in one to two weeks then I agree with you, but if they can't, then I think they should revert back to the old system until they make the changes.

 

That would give them time to make the changes and to communicate those changes to us so that they can be reviewed by us, and get us to buy into what they are doing before they go live.

[DarthSpuds]

In an attempt to give this fickle playerbase exactly what they asked for,

 

Please show any posts by players asking for Conquest to be made 8.76 times MORE GRINDY.

 

All The Best

[olagatonjedi]

Imagine the amount of players/guilds that will be participating in conquest then, not just the players in the top 3 guilds.

The point you are missing is that nobody knows who "the top 3 guilds" are. We are only 3 days in. Guilds that choose to give up already wont be those top 3, but that is their choice. The game doesnt end at the end of this weeks conquest either. Your guild and players can choose to make adjustments to become the top guild in their tier, or they can stand pat and fall again. That is a decision that each guild must make.

[SNy-lotrolinux]

This just goes to show that well intended != well implemented.

 

You said your intention was to improve the conquest system and make it more accessible to smaller guilds.

 

Obviously, your definition of "improvement" differs enormously from the generally accepted meaning of the word.

 

I am member of a small guild (8 qualifying accounts).

Two of us have been actively participating in the conquest to unlock rooms in our guild flagship.

 

With the occasional help of some of the others, but mostly between the two of us, we managed to reach the top ten for the last 6 or 7 weeks.

We did so by carefully selecting the planet to invade, and used what it offered on each of our toons (6 on each account), generally quite overcapping their personal goals.

The point was we logged in all of those characters in the course of the week, and gave each of them a fair bit of playtime, because it was fun to compete with the other, quite possibly bigger, guilds and come out ahead.

We didn't play those toons because they would need any equipment, they don't. We played them because it gave us something to work for and had an element of competition to it.

 

Apparently, you don't like it if people do that/have that, so you came and forced the atrocity onto us.

 

Not only did you not make any of it an improvement, you achieved the exact opposite of what you presumably intended.

 

We are not going to get near the 460.000 we would need for the smallest invasion this week.

I am going to reach my personal goal on only one of my toons, and only because of the 10k bugged points.

 

That is thanks to

- not having the daily + weekly FP participation bonus

- the crafting bonus apparently being a daily PER LEGACY (ridiculous!)

- a general lack in repeatable objectives

 

This causes us to not log in the characters for any extended time.

We essentially stopped playing them, and apparantly we are not the only ones, because for those that still try to get into FPs, the queue time has lenghtened drastically.

 

In short: you destroyed our (and probably a good amount of other people's) reason for playing most of the characters throughout the week.

 

Well done. /slowclap

 

PS. Just while finishing this post, I got logged out of the game, having been sitting in a master FP queue as a healer since before I started writing. No match during this time. Go figure.

[olagatonjedi]

Please show any posts by players asking for Conquest to be made 8.76 times MORE GRINDY.

 

All The Best

Tell me where they said not to make it grindy.....

[DragonLadyK]

i mean, all i want is my pvp participation and random flashpoint repeatables back in.

 

Yep. If they don't want Dark Rage standing around doing nothing, make the participation PVP/GSF points linked to kills and medals earned. 10 medals for 2k points or something. Without conquest rewards to incentivize queueing, FP, PVP, and GSF qs are going to be stupid long.

[DarthSpuds]

Tell me where they said not to make it grindy.....

 

Ah well, I was hoping for reasoned discussion.

 

Didn't happen.

 

There's a reason you are the ONLY person in the whole history of my use of internet Fora to be put on Ignore.

 

Back under the bridge you go.

 

All The Best

[AlainaFlute]

Yep. If they don't want Dark Rage standing around doing nothing, make the participation PVP/GSF points linked to kills and medals earned. 10 medals for 2k points or something. Without conquest rewards to incentivize queueing, FP, PVP, and GSF qs are going to be stupid long.

 

Oooooooo! I really like that idea! Have conquest points based on medal earned! Love it!!

[ThomasStarWars]

Oooooooo! I really like that idea! Have conquest points based on medal earned! Love it!!

 

great idea

[Paulsutherland]

It will definitely be closer to the end of the day. The post is fairly long and most importantly it covers things we intend to change and when. It will take some time to gather, confirm, triple check, and get it all laid out. We're working on it though and will have it out as soon as possible.

 

-eric

 

Just change the conquest style back to 5.7 all boom you're a hero.

[darthscotty]

Yep. If they don't want Dark Rage standing around doing nothing, make the participation PVP/GSF points linked to kills and medals earned. 10 medals for 2k points or something. Without conquest rewards to incentivize queueing, FP, PVP, and GSF qs are going to be stupid long.

 

Only reason I pvp'd was to get conquest points. I am done pvping now, no point to do it if I cannot get conquest points.

[TUXs]

Yep. If they don't want Dark Rage standing around doing nothing, make the participation PVP/GSF points linked to kills and medals earned. 10 medals for 2k points or something. Without conquest rewards to incentivize queueing, FP, PVP, and GSF qs are going to be stupid long.

GREAT idea...should have happened long ago!

[JattaGin]

3 days (43%) of the conquest week in the books so lets do a little math.(...)

 

Thank you for doing the math and your actual post. Spot-on!

 

As predicted, big guilds are doing small planets right now. The Ilum number of 460.000 has already been surpassed by 4 bigger guilds, of which one already has ober 900.000 points, meanwhile no guild reaches the number of the middle planet. For the big planet, only one guild has the half of the 2530.000 points, and it is the only one over 1 Million anyway.

All on Tulak Hord.

 

Not as bad, but also not much better on Malgus. Without changes, next week everyone will go for the lowest tier. Who would want to risk wasting 2M points or something for nothing.

 

In an attempt to give this fickle playerbase exactly what they asked for, (...)

 

Who has asked for what we got on Tuesday? Seriously. Name one thing that we got on Tuesday that anyone has asked for (related to conquest only, of course there was a loud request to french kiss a mass murderer, but that's another story). People have asked for a lot of things, but a nerf to the conquest was definitely not on the list. If you don't believe that it is a nerf, read the math that DisposableHeero made. Maybe you believe the numbers.

 

The point you are missing is that nobody knows who "the top 3 guilds" are. We are only 3 days in. (...)

 

Yes, we can easily predict the top 3. If you leave out the Invasion Forces from the equation, there is literally NO chance for the guilds behind to get to the points of the top guilds (except piling up a lot of new members to get the needed quantity - which is exactly the opposite of what this update was supposed to achieve). Why do we know that? Because of a lack of points for repeatable stuff. There is only so much you can get per day. If you are now at 500k for the top tier, you cannot make it to the threshold (except if you have thousands of Invasion Forces piled up). That's just a fact. If you deny that, I come to the conclusion that you haven't actually tried out the new conquest yet.

[CyorReco]

for reference, I created a spreadsheet comparing the rewards of objectives for Relics of the Gree from that last pre 5.8 conquest round to the 5.8 version to get an idea for how much harder it is under the current point values to meet the personal goals/guild goals. Comparing the yields paints a pretty bleak picture.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bFobmGXBOJwvxG6d7b6sKAPm_DXsnIItSkJzu6TP4Lg/edit?usp=sharing

 

Pre 5.8 there were 17 objectives to choose from that rewarded conquest points. Of those 5 were removed:

 

 

Taking the raw average of objective efficiency losses under the 5.8 system, completing the personal goal for the week takes 8.76 times more time and material investment than it did pre-5.8.

 

Thanks so much for this, i do love to sink my teeth into this sort analysis. One of the main decision drivers of this new lousy undesirable conquest system I believe is the new companion compendium. They wanted to make it enough of a challenge(a grind) for it to not be too easy to get this. However, this compendium from either a credit or time efficiency standpoint is not even a good deal. I posted about it on pages 5 & 8 of this thread.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=945302&page=5

 

The short version: using , it will take about 477 purple rank 5 companion gifts to go from 1 to 50 influence (equivalent to 250,000 influence points). This is with 3 legacy of altruisms unlocked and using the optimal gift type for each companion

 

If you unlock the all 3 Legacy of promptness it reduces your channel time to 1.2 per gift and will take 9 minutes 33 seconds to apply 477 gifts[/b]. So 4,770,00 (for gifts) + 60,000 (for the 3 altruism unlocks) + 1,200,000 (legacy of promptness) = 5,970,060 credits for gifts &unlocks. Compendium 4,250,000 + 2,250,000 for dark projects (3 @ 750k right now on the SF gtn) = 6,500,000 for the compendium. Now that 9 mins 33 secs of clicking isn't fun, but certainly less time and creds than doing conquest even pre-5.8.

 

Even a worse deal credit-wise for multiple companions since these unlocks can be applied for all future companions and/or if you've partially leveled a companion's influence a bit already.

Edited March 22, 2018 by CyorReco

[CaptRogue]

Who has asked for what we got on Tuesday? Seriously. Name one thing that we got on Tuesday that anyone has asked for (related to conquest only, of course there was a loud request to french kiss a mass murderer, but that's another story). People have asked for a lot of things, but a nerf to the conquest was definitely not on the list. If you don't believe that it is a nerf, read the math that DisposableHeero made. Maybe you believe the numbers.

 

Actually quite a few people have asked & made posts on the forums regarding PvP grants points only with wins, crafting to win needs nerfed, and Ops lockouts need nerfed.

So yeah...While the conquest nerf as a whole wasn't asked for, they compiled it into the update.

 

Until Eric comes out & states what's bugged/intended or not, we shall have to wait & see. Because so far on my toons I'm getting conquest, I'm not broken in the CM/CM Collections area, etc... Thankfully!!

But seems others are. Like I posted in another thread, it's like 2 separate codes/updates went out that affected the players differently at random.

[ThomasStarWars]

Thanks so much for this, i do love to sink my teeth into this sort analysis. One of the main decision drivers of this new lousy undesirable conquest system I believe is the new companion compendium. They wanted to make it enough of a challenge(a grind) for it to not be too easy to get this. However, this compendium from either a credit or time efficiency standpoint is not even a good deal. I posted about it on pages 5 & 8 of this thread.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=945302&page=5

 

The short version: using , it will take about 477 purple rank 5 companion gifts to go from 1 influence to 50 influence (equivalent to 250,000 influence points). This is with 3 legacy of altruisms unlocked and using the optimal gift type for each companion

 

If you unlock the all 3 Legacy of promptness it reduces your channel time to 1.2 per gift and will take 9 minutes 33 seconds to apply 477 gifts. So 4,770,00 (for gifts) + 60,000 (for the 3 altruism unlocks) + 1,200,000 (legacy of promptness) = 5,970,060 credits for gifts &unlocks. Compendium 4,250,000 + 2,250,000 for dark projects (3 @ 750k right now on the SF gtn) = 6,500,000 for the compendium. Now that 9 mins 33 secs of clicking isn't fun, but certainly less time and creds than doing conquest even pre-5.8.

 

Even a worse deal credit-wise for multiple companions since these unlocks can be applied for all future companions and/or if you've partially leveled a companion's influence a bit already.

 

 

great math. now you gave them ideas.

[steike]

Just cancelled my husband's account. Ready to cancel my account ... dammit, forgot I made a one time 60-days payment subscription few days b4 the 5.8 patch. /Facepalm and head bang:eek:

[Ibokagain]

I have yet to hear a better idea to finally once and for all solving the issue of small and medium guilds being able to fully participate than simply making all planets "small" planets and have a minimum threshold and a planet conquer threshold such that you hit the minimum you get top10 rewards, and if you hit the planet conquer threshold you get all of the benefits of taking a planet (but only the real top guild gets their name on the planet).

 

Meaning, all planets you get say 80k to get the top10 , and 200k to conquer the planet. (i'm going off of what values should be with the current points levels). This means if guild A gets 82k that guild all finishes the top10 guild reward. If guild B, C, and E get over 200k they ALL get the title, ability to remove the personal shield on the named-commander, and purchase the mount.

 

We are already doing this concept now with the new conquest for top10, why not extend it and do it for the planet conquer. Imagine the amount of players/guilds that will be participating in conquest then, not just the players in the top 3 guilds.

 

There was a really good post earlier in the thread regarding this, basically they would have to limit the small to small guilds, medium to medium, and large to large; they could go by overall qualifying accounts. Also they could have 2 planets for each as well.

[PorsaLindahl]

Ah well, I was hoping for reasoned discussion.

 

Didn't happen.

 

There's a reason you are the ONLY person in the whole history of my use of internet Fora to be put on Ignore.

 

Back under the bridge you go.

 

All The Best

 

Don't try to reason with him. I tried that before. He'll just keep rephrasing the same thing over and over. Let him have his Solo PvP and Solo Ops dreams and his delusions about this new conquest system. His single "voice" in the crowd amounts to little.

[Ibokagain]

You are claiming that a tactic of running alts was the main reason your smaller guild could compete with larger guilds, but choose to ignore the fact that the tactic was not exclusive to you. The large guilds could've done it too, but didnt need to regularly do it. That wouldve essentially negated your claimed advantage.

 

Now, success comes down to two things:

1) how big is your guild compared to other like-sized guilds

2) how dedicated are your guild members

 

If you are a small guild, its your choice. There are pros and cons to any sized guild (players, drama, rewards, comradery, etc). You have an option of which planet to go for. If guild x and y have 50 guildmembers, and guild x chooses to allow 51 to gain an advantage, then guild y must decide whether to add 1 more member to remain optimally competitive. They can take their chances, or adapt - like any good competition.

 

I'm pretty sure and the original poster can correct me if I'm wrong, but their whole idea changing conquest was so "to encourage more leaderboard competition among similarly sized Guilds, smaller Guilds going after smaller Yields, etc." granted they did say they didn't put the restriction, however that sentence is what they stated.

 

Hence you shouldn't have to be in the largest guilds to do this. There are many players that are in smaller, med sized guilds because they don't just play 2-3 toons, many play a ton of alts, and most of their friends in the guild more than likely are the same it's what they pay for and like to do. While most hardcore guilds that are large will only allow you to have usually 1-3 toons in their guild if you are lucky.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9549316#edit9549316

[Ibokagain]

Ignore the overreaction mentality of the mob. Most of them have admitted through many posts that they will never be pleased with any change, or that they are too resistent to change to improve themselves.

 

In an attempt to give this fickle playerbase exactly what they asked for, they met it with hostility, negativity, poor perspective, and a lack of adaptibility. Ill be interested to see and understand the reasoning behind the changes that were made, and make an educated assessment of whether each aspect was a reasonable change.

 

While reading many of the post from players in this thread I have to completely disagree with your above statement. They had this post which stated conquest changes were coming in 5.8 which was posted on 03/01/18. In that post there were many post asking for clarity of what exactly was changing, nothing was presented on what was changing. Also in their stream they had a quick screen shot followed with your gonna love these changes yet no real information was shared.

 

So to say that this is what "we" asked for I say no, I clearly want to know "who" said this was a great idea that everyone would love b/c clearly "they" don't play this game.

 

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9549316#edit9549316

[Ibokagain]

Thanks for the update Eric...anxious to see what you have planned. However...the "when" had better be weeks away, not months. Nothing we've asked for is new...it's almost exclusively something we've had before.

 

^Yes to this

 

 

They can keep the current system, it just needs tweaks, like repeatable PvP, GSP, FP's and a helluva lot more points. And every goal should be PER character, nothing should ever be once per Legacy. Alts are too important in this game.

 

^and completely agree.