New Conquest System: First Impressions

[EricMusco]

Its a new day in Austin Texas. 11am and the 2nd morning coffee should have sunk in.

So, what time should we expect this post?

 

It will definitely be closer to the end of the day. The post is fairly long and most importantly it covers things we intend to change and when. It will take some time to gather, confirm, triple check, and get it all laid out. We're working on it though and will have it out as soon as possible.

 

-eric

[KendraP]

It will definitely be closer to the end of the day. The post is fairly long and most importantly it covers things we intend to change and when. It will take some time to gather, confirm, triple check, and get it all laid out. We're working on it though and will have it out as soon as possible.

 

-eric

 

As a loyal and long time customer Musco, I hope this is so that we get a substantial response to our feedback.

[ThomasStarWars]

It will definitely be closer to the end of the day. The post is fairly long and most importantly it covers things we intend to change and when. It will take some time to gather, confirm, triple check, and get it all laid out. We're working on it though and will have it out as soon as possible.

 

-eric

 

Thank you Eric, please let it be worth the wait.

[Paulsutherland]

If the issue was getting smaller guilds a chance, wouldn't it have been easier to have every planetary conquest running then have planets connected to the events (Gree = Ilum, Revanites = Yavin) rewards doubled / tripled to lure the bigger guilds to them?

 

Crafting? Why not just make an in game crafting mission (like the PVP, Flashpoint GSF weekly) then have players craft X for that mission to complete?

 

Was the UI change even needed? The old one was easy to understand ... this ones just a cluster**** in your face.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Paulsutherland

[DarthSpuds]

It will definitely be closer to the end of the day. The post is fairly long and most importantly it covers things we intend to change and when. It will take some time to gather, confirm, triple check, and get it all laid out. We're working on it though and will have it out as soon as possible.

 

-eric

 

With respect how long can it really take to type up:

Yeah, we dun goofed, we'll roll it back on Tuesday

 

Because if it ain't fixed by then its too damned late for a lot people, and you can't afford to lose too many more players; and the ONLY way to fix it all by then is a Roll Back.

 

All The Best

[CaptRogue]

improve our ability to kick them

 

^YES! That!! PLEASE ERIC! Let us be able to kick the ones standing around in PvP/GSF way easier than the whole team having to vote!!

[Screaming_Ziva]

It will definitely be closer to the end of the day. The post is fairly long and most importantly it covers things we intend to change and when. It will take some time to gather, confirm, triple check, and get it all laid out. We're working on it though and will have it out as soon as possible.

 

-eric

So basically, it will be delayed until tomorrow and you will then hit submit on it at 4:30pm when you have one foot out the door for the weekend?

[CaptRogue]

Because if it ain't fixed by then its too damned late for a lot people, and you can't afford to lose too many more players; and the ONLY way to fix it all by then is a Roll Back.

 

Well then I guess adios to those players who are too impatient to wait till the studio at least addresses it then decide.

If you're hoping for a roll back, then might as well unsub right now. Because they ain't rolling back a server for 2 days! Just ain't happening. Too much lost!

[ShadowGovernator]

It will definitely be closer to the end of the day. The post is fairly long and most importantly it covers things we intend to change and when. It will take some time to gather, confirm, triple check, and get it all laid out. We're working on it though and will have it out as soon as possible.

 

-eric

 

Don't over-think it - just roll-back 5.8.

[ShadowGovernator]

Well then I guess adios to those players who are too impatient to wait till the studio at least addresses it then decide.

If you're hoping for a roll back, then might as well unsub right now. Because they ain't rolling back a server for 2 days! Just ain't happening. Too much lost!

 

The real loss would be doing more than those two days of that update - that's why it has to be rolled-back asap.

[olagatonjedi]

Exactly! The way to help small guilds was not this separation into small, meduim, large with minimal rewards differences. The way to do it was to have a larger number of planets each week. Spreads guilds out more to give a better chance of winning, as well as gets more guilds wins so they won;t go all out for it again next time.

That doesnt work because then everyone can easily complete it every week, get their rewards or achievements, and the conquest system falls apart.

[Master_Morak]

See, but this is exactly the problem. There are multiple threads in the GSF and PVP forums about so-called leeches, etc. Its not necessarily as bad as a person going AFK with a macro, but its pretty clear that a percentage of players will join pvp and GSF matches for the rewards of UCs, CXP, and conquest points,

 

I'm like solo content but it is often not repeatable or not enough H2 involved in conquest. so I must do PvP in the past, which I hate. I#m not the one going AFK, but if I see we couldn't win I also do only what is necassary.

 

So it is the fail of the devs, what ist part of conquest. balance it so that PvP, PvE and solo Player get the same amount of conquest Point doing their favorite play and everything is fine.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Hey folks,

 

Keep the feedback coming! Seeing your thoughts on the revamp is very helpful to the team. My plan is that tomorrow I want to get the following information into this thread: a breakdown of our intention around the Conquest revamp and a list of the feedback points that all of you have raised. This will allow you to see our thoughts on Conquests and then to highlight the feedback you have stated that we are actively reviewing internally.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

Ok, I already wrote my opinion in this thread but that was on day one and now I calmed down a little. My opinion hasn't changed, but I will try to give you something more substantial than rants.

 

The most crippling factor is the basic concept of having small, medium and large planets with scaling rewards. The rewards aren't worth the effort and there's nothing preventing large guilds from going after small planets.

I would combine rewards and punishment for a dynamic system. If you have a large guild, then going after a medium planet will give you a 25% handicap for conquest points across the board, 50% for a small one. Numbers are just picked randomly and would need to be tweaked, but the goal is to bring a large guild into line with a medium or small one, so they can compete equally.

How to define large, medium and small exactly needs to be figured out as well, but I'd go with active members in the past 7 days. Sure, that'll be unfair to large guilds with only a handful of people doing conquest but it'll be better for everyone else. Also, if you're in a guild that doesn't support your play style, maybe you should find a new one?

Of course, the rewards need to be worth it, too. Right now... they are not.

Gathering Lockboxes are useless, the credits usually don't offset the expenses for crafting and 23k cxp for a week long event? Not enough. Jawa scrap/junk isn't worth much either in these amounts. The superior resource matrix is nice, but no one uses anything crafted for endgame gear (except augments).

You need to offer something people actually want. Personally want. Success for the guild is nice and stuff, but it's not enough motivation to keep people earning conquest points over weeks or month.

Why not offer a random speeder, outfit or weapon? Or some of the old crafting schematics? Why not boxes with random crafting materials? I'm sure you could think of something players would want.

 

The GUI is ... bad. Sorry. The list of conquest objectives is objectively worse to browse than the previous version with the small tiles. There is also no reason to use half the window for a description, especially since those descriptions are very sparse on details. What happened to using colors? Now it's all light blue font on dark blue background.

I'm not saying the old version was perfect, it certainly was not. But at least I could see most, if not all, conquest objectives at the same time and could differentiate between them easily.

There's so much wasted space in that menu window... and that with necessary information being absent.

 

On the plus side, I like that the actual amount of conquest points gained is displayed now. I no longer have to calculate it myself.

Removing planetary bonuses was a step forward as well, I never liked having to decide between which bonus would be most useful to the most people and selecting a planet where we'd actually have a chance for conquest.

Giving the full conquest bonus for any owned stronghold was a good change, too.

 

Completing your personal conquest goal is too hard now. Sure, I managed the first day with my main char... but that was with the 10k bonus from the bug and crafting. I don't see how any of my alts could do the same in a reasonable amount of time. I think playing ~4h should be enough to earn 20k conquest points without the need to farm a certain FP or Uprising.

 

Conquest was some nice side activity that gave you a reachable goal, something to measure your progress while doing something for your guild. It motivated people to run flashpoints and it filled the warzone and GSF queues. Sure, that has its own downsides if people are only there for the conquest points... but overall it worked.

 

Now it's a chore. If I actually wanted to meet the conquest goal on all my chars, then I'd have to invest at least twice the amount of time I needed previously and I'd have to spend most of it farming the same Flashpoint or Uprising.

 

Be honest here, did you actually run the numbers to see how quickly a 2nd, 3rd or 4th char would get to 20k? ^^

 

 

Please fix this mess. And this time, listen to people first. Yeah, your own vision is important and you shouldn't give in to every demand of the players... but there can be a balance, right?

From the closed beta until now you almost never used our feedback properly. Why ask for it then?

People tell you something is a bad idea and you do it anyway, then act surprised by the backlash.

 

Seriously, go back to the old Conquest system until you figure out a better one. This one right here? It might be the last straw that completely alienates the playerbase. It's not like you have such a stellar reputation to begin with.

[PorsaLindahl]

It will definitely be closer to the end of the day. The post is fairly long and most importantly it covers things we intend to change and when. It will take some time to gather, confirm, triple check, and get it all laid out. We're working on it though and will have it out as soon as possible.

 

-eric

 

If you have been reading the other posts on the forums, then that list of what's going to be changed shouldn't be that long. And the "When" part better be next week as far as I'm concerned.

 

I think I can fairly say that NO ONE wants any more smokescreen posts. Give it to us straight. No more of this beating around the bush and mincing words.

[Storm-Cutter]

 

It was also proposed to be competitive to small guilds - Well my guild has being going hell-for-leather for anything going and we've still only got about 10% of the 10th spot on our server after 48 hours or so. - And every time I check, the top-10 pull further ahead.

 

Sry to quote myself, but it's easier than re-typing.

 

And the personal goal reward is still pretty paltry as well.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Storm-Cutter

[Lyshar]

To back that up, there are times when it takes 4 matches to complete the daily, which is 4 matches (wins count x2). So it's not a matter of "Hey, just win a match and be done for the day." No single person can carry a team in PvP. It doesn't matter how good they are, or how good they think they are. If you have 3 or more people that just screw off during a match, you can pretty much hang up winning if the other team is even remotely competent. Anyone that says otherwise is just lying and trying to stroke their ego.

 

What was nice with the old system was that on a non-PvP week you still got 250 points per match (before SH bonus), so if someone wanted to they'd run 80 WZ and get their target or 13-14 matches per day. Not realistic, but it was a compromise that still got people playing WZs.

 

In a WZ week a win would give 500 points more, giving extra incentive as a win cut down the needed matches by 2, and the weekly would give 1000 points I believe, so saving another 4 matches.

 

Translating that to the daily, assuming people just ran the dailies the worst situation would be 4 matches/day for 6x4x250 points for the whole week but also completing the weekly, meaning 7000 points done, 13000 points to do another way. Best case meant 2 wins each day or 6x2x(250+500)+1000=10000 done and 10000 to go. Seeing as many people have real lives next to the game this was very reasonable.

 

What this math doesn't take into account is actual time spend, after school/work, doing home/housework, spending time with family & friends... this can take up much remaining time already, especially without win bonuses. Don't forget there's also time between matches you're waiting, instant pops are no guarantee.

[TUXs]

It will definitely be closer to the end of the day. The post is fairly long and most importantly it covers things we intend to change and when. It will take some time to gather, confirm, triple check, and get it all laid out. We're working on it though and will have it out as soon as possible.

 

-eric

Thanks for the update Eric...anxious to see what you have planned. However...the "when" had better be weeks away, not months. Nothing we've asked for is new...it's almost exclusively something we've had before.

[Lhancelot]

With respect how long can it really take to type up:

 

 

Because if it ain't fixed by then its too damned late for a lot people, and you can't afford to lose too many more players; and the ONLY way to fix it all by then is a Roll Back.

 

All The Best

 

Well, for one they never roll back large content patches no matter how much push back they get. They will alter the numbers I suspect and nothing more.

 

The general operation of the new conquest system will not change though. I hope I am wrong but I believe this to be the way things will be "improved" upon.

 

I am prepared to eat crow if necessary.

[AdrianDmitruk]

I just realized something that I overlooked way back on page 44: The other stated goal of 5.8 was to introduce more credit sinks. The GTN tax was increased for that reason.

 

Yet the new Galactic Compendium (or whatever it's called) vendor is gated behind reaching personal goal for conquests. Wouldn't that credit sink be far, far more effective if reaching personal goal was actually realistically attainable (including for alts)?

 

Whatever it was Bioware was trying to accomplish, directly undercut something else that we know Bioware was trying to accomplish.

 

The point and repeatability nerfs were really, really not thought through.

[TUXs]

Well, for one they never roll back large content patches no matter how much push back they get. They will alter the numbers I suspect and nothing more.

 

The general operation of the new conquest system will not change though. I hope I am wrong but I believe this to be the way things will be "improved" upon.

 

I am prepared to eat crow if necessary.

They can keep the current system, it just needs tweaks, like repeatable PvP, GSP, FP's and a helluva lot more points. And every goal should be PER character, nothing should ever be once per Legacy. Alts are too important in this game.

[Master_Morak]

It will definitely be closer to the end of the day. The post is fairly long and most importantly it covers things we intend to change and when. It will take some time to gather, confirm, triple check, and get it all laid out. We're working on it though and will have it out as soon as possible.

 

-eric

 

A long post?

 

You need no long post - Meaning well is not the same as doing well.

 

A short and clear post is still enough:

"Sorry for our fail. We will roll back to the old system. We think changes to the conquest system are necessary, we redesign our concept and discuss it with the community as soon as possiple before implementation"

[DarthSpuds]

The general operation of the new conquest system will not change though. I hope I am wrong but I believe this to be the way things will be "improved" upon.

 

There's an old, old saying: you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

 

We saw that with Command Levels - for all the tweaking and tinkering Bioware have done Command Levels are still a pile of crap, and that's because they started out as a pile of crap.

 

Fundamental changes to core features of the "new" Conquest are urgently needed, otherwise in 12 months time we'll still be labouring with a pile of crap Conquest system.

 

When something is this broke you don't tinker around the edges; you burn it down and start again.

 

And they conveniently have a way to keep Conquest active while doing that - it's called a Roll Back.

 

All The Best

Edited March 22, 2018 by DarthSpuds

[Screaming_Ziva]

I just realized something that I overlooked way back on page 44: The other stated goal of 5.8 was to introduce more credit sinks. The GTN tax was increased for that reason.

 

Yet the new Galactic Compendium (or whatever it's called) vendor is gated behind reaching personal goal for conquests. Wouldn't that credit sink be far, far more effective if reaching personal goal was actually realistically attainable (including for alts)?

Making it legacy bound would have been even more of a credit sink. I'm sure I would have spent at least a couple hundred million on them for my characters.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Screaming_Ziva

[AlainaFlute]

It will definitely be closer to the end of the day. The post is fairly long and most importantly it covers things we intend to change and when. It will take some time to gather, confirm, triple check, and get it all laid out. We're working on it though and will have it out as soon as possible.

 

-eric

 

While this brings back some hope for me, I still think that the responsible thing to do is, on Tuesday, roll back conquest to pre- 5.8 until you guys have properly tested the revamped Conquest out with actual players that do Conquest.

 

Get in touch the GMs of all the major, medium sized, and small guilds on the different servers that actively do conquest and have them test out your new plan. LISTEN to their feedback and implement what they tell you.

 

Then, once its tested and ALL the bugs ironed out, push it out in a patch.

 

This is what I would like to see. But, I doubt it will happen. At least Eric's latest post gives me some sliver of hope.

 

But, we'll see what happens when the Official Official Post comes out.

[olagatonjedi]

Your last point is completely wrong.

 

Smaller guilds had/have people with more alts on the norm, because they're able to compete with the top guilds in that manner, who have many times the more people than the smaller guilds.

 

Restricting the effectiveness of alts is a bigger stab at the smaller guilds than it is at the bigger guilds. Coming from somebody who was able to hit top 3/5 on a consistent basis with simply 3-4 people, due to alts.

 

Not to mention the restrain on lockouts is only good for the larger & really small guilds.. the ones that are medium size, pretty much get a big FU.. We had 1 group running for lockouts able to do about 10 of them a day, due to alts, which was a good counter to bigger guilds we competed against, who were doing many lockouts due to having more people. Idk, why they listen to the small amount of people that complained about the lockouts.. when Lockouts were one of the fun things imo about conquest, much more funner than doing a complete operation.

You are claiming that a tactic of running alts was the main reason your smaller guild could compete with larger guilds, but choose to ignore the fact that the tactic was not exclusive to you. The large guilds could've done it too, but didnt need to regularly do it. That wouldve essentially negated your claimed advantage.

 

Now, success comes down to two things:

1) how big is your guild compared to other like-sized guilds

2) how dedicated are your guild members

 

If you are a small guild, its your choice. There are pros and cons to any sized guild (players, drama, rewards, comradery, etc). You have an option of which planet to go for. If guild x and y have 50 guildmembers, and guild x chooses to allow 51 to gain an advantage, then guild y must decide whether to add 1 more member to remain optimally competitive. They can take their chances, or adapt - like any good competition.

Edited March 22, 2018 by olagatonjedi