New Conquest System: First Impressions

[Ibokagain]

I read your post...very well said. Like you, I also think they had good intentions, they just failed. They go off things they think they should do without ever asking what we might want them to do. This would be fine if THEY were the ones paying our sub fees...but they aren't...all they've done is harm the game...again...

 

^ Agree 100% Tux

[Ibokagain]

my point is the person I was responding to said this:

 

 

 

So my response was that they did bring it up before. Did I say they explain it completely no. I just stated they did bring bring it up before.

 

You need to read what Tux posted. Yes you are correct they put up a vague post regarding conquest changes, many questions were asked regarding it and pleading to be more clear however once again silence as yet this thread continues with silence as well. Yet you think it's great?

[CaptRogue]

and legacy lockouts. Your point?

 

...*rolls eyes* Here we go again with the legacy lockout...

 

You do realize that the old Gree conquest had "legacy" lockouts just as this one does right??

http://dulfy.net/2014/08/07/swtor-planetary-conquests-guide/#Conquest_Relics_of_the_Gree <-----OLD

 

http://dulfy.net/2018/03/20/swtor-5-8-conquest-guide-and-schedule/ <----NEW

 

You're just throwing that out there because now it's come to your attention...

Bugs yes, that's bad needs fixed. One time objectives (Or legacy lockouts as you want to call them.) is perfectly fine as that system has been working for years now.

[Ibokagain]

Tux, my response was that it was stated they didn't discuss it, they did, but that doesn't mean they discuss it completely, with that I agree. But saying they didn't discuss would be wrong, saying they didn't discuss it completely well that would be true as there were questions and things not discussed which should have been.

 

Making one vague statement isn't discussing something.

 

discuss: to consider or examine by argument, comment, etc.; talk over or write about, especially to explore solutions; debate.

 

One quick vague post and mic drop IS NOT discussing it.

[DarthSpuds]

The old system had problems...

 

...being 5.8 wasn't one of them.

 

b'dum'tush

 

All The Best

[casirabit]

You need to read what Tux posted. Yes you are correct they put up a vague post regarding conquest changes, many questions were asked regarding it and pleading to be more clear however once again silence as yet this thread continues with silence as well. Yet you think it's great?

 

Maybe you need to read my post that I responded back to Tux and on that note I am going to say have a good day as I am not going to be drawn into an argument with you on the merits of their post. They didn't discuss the conquest adequately that I already agreed with but you seem determine to argue with someone.

Edited March 21, 2018 by casirabit

[KendraP]

...*rolls eyes* Here we go again with the legacy lockout...

 

You do realize that the old Gree conquest had "legacy" lockouts just as this one does right??

http://dulfy.net/2014/08/07/swtor-planetary-conquests-guide/#Conquest_Relics_of_the_Gree <-----OLD

 

http://dulfy.net/2018/03/20/swtor-5-8-conquest-guide-and-schedule/ <----NEW

 

You're just throwing that out there because now it's come to your attention...

Bugs yes, that's bad needs fixed. One time objectives (Or legacy lockouts as you want to call them.) is perfectly fine as that system has been working for years now.

 

When the one time was stuff like xeno, whatever. I could srill go spam pvp, fp, ops, or whatever i chose to enjoy.

 

Now pvp is a one time per day thing? Its ridiculous.

 

I don't know about you but battle of ilum farming isn't my idea of fun.

[ThunderWalker]

OK - first off - so we know where I'm coming from... I played in the Beta, bought a physical Collector's Edition I was so stoked for the game! I kept playing through their announcement about condensing the servers and that the game was going Free To Play (thought it was a horrible mistake but kept paying & playing for a few months afterwards. Then everyone I was friends with and every guild, every group I found, well... people took a bit of a Hiatus while hoping things would stabilize i guess you could say. Then after about a year or so I found that the Game had some changes (new level cap, new Ops / FP's and such) come through - decided to play again, did so enjoyed it - but Real Life decided that it needed to bite me in the *** and I had to let my sub lapse - fast forward a year or so and I just come back, hit 70, start figuring out Conquest and then... the patch hit. Since Tuesday well... I've tried to enjoy the game enough to keep playing. I really, really have.

 

I'm just not sure anymore that this game is one I can love.

 

I keep getting the feeling that Bioware / EA are trying to deliberately piss off the player base until there aren't enough players to justify the servers and they can pull the plug on the game.

I don't normally bother with forum posts, reading or putting one up. However, after the last day or so of playing. I've read more forum posting regarding SWTOR in the last day than I have since the Beta's.

There are changes that were needed - yes. I agree.

However, there are some things that are very wrong and poorly done.

 

I just came back to a game that I have loved playing in the past, and I find that it has probably just been murdered by the Dev's / studio that had a great game and an awesome dream.

Really disappointing that. I had found a new guild of people, been hanging out in discord with them, or in game doing Ops and what not.. and now - no ones logging in. No ones playing. Discords pretty much silent because the changes were too drastic and now they have no desire to play.

 

The OP of this thread makes a ton of sense in his layout of issues. Please, please, please listen to him and all of your other subscriber fan base and work with us to make better changes.

 

Save yourself BioWare! You the only hope of fixing it!

[Kyrra_T]

...*rolls eyes* Here we go again with the legacy lockout...

 

You do realize that the old Gree conquest had "legacy" lockouts just as this one does right??

http://dulfy.net/2014/08/07/swtor-planetary-conquests-guide/#Conquest_Relics_of_the_Gree <-----OLD

 

http://dulfy.net/2018/03/20/swtor-5-8-conquest-guide-and-schedule/ <----NEW

 

You're just throwing that out there because now it's come to your attention...

Bugs yes, that's bad needs fixed. One time objectives (Or legacy lockouts as you want to call them.) is perfectly fine as that system has been working for years now.

 

Wait. You said earllier in the thread YOU were able to repeat those 'legacy lockouts' so clearly everyone who can't is lying. Which side of your face is talking now?

 

Can you repeat the OPs for points or not? You said you could. You said those of us who can't were lying. Which one is it now?

[CaptRogue]

Yet you think it's great?

 

No the problem with those of us who are opposing the vented hate in this, is how you all are going about it. Plus for me it's the fact yall are making up problems/info.

 

Like the whole "Legacy lockout" debacle. When that is NOTHING new that's been introduced. Just a new term so ppl are flippantly throwing it around to fuel their fire.

Same with the "Legacy lockout" of Ops. Apparently there is a bug, which DOES NEED to be fixed asap, but NOT all players have that. I for one do not. I can do the Op of the day for CP on every toon I have, that I've paid attention to so far. (I've not checked my whole set but I ran some last night. Each got the points.)

 

Does SOME of the changes suck? YES!

Does some of the changes need changed asap? YES!

Do the bugs need fixed? YES!

Does the game need rolled back? NO!

 

You all have every right to vent your frustrations, but do so with actual facts & not with sheer emotion feeding off of others rage & hating anyone who opposes your view.

 

There is good reason that Eric & Keith haven't stepped in here to say a word, that's because they would be eaten alive with anything they would say except maybe "we heard you & are rolling back the servers"...to which then the other side would be mad at that because that's a LOT of achievements & stuff lost.

 

Silence doesn't always mean they're not listening or caring. Just means they're not reacting. Big difference.

[DarthSpuds]

The Developers of this game have never understood what they have. Or they have been consistently undermined by corporate hacks. I suspect it is a bit of both.

 

From it's inception, SWTOR has been a single player game in a persistent multi user world. Operations, PVP, crafting all of these are conventions that MMO players expect so they've been included. But the heart of this game is the single player experience. When they truly embrace it they will have a loyal base of subscribers who won't ever stop playing this game and will happily fork over subscription fees month after month.

 

But instead of embracing the solo nature of this game and it's kissing cousin, alt play - they always choose to keep the solo experience somewhere between mildly frustrating and outright impossible.

 

The lastest changes are yet another example of making the game more difficult to play without another person.

 

Operations players will always demand new content. pVpers will always whine about balance. Devs are forced to spend resources catering to these vocal communities. They labor under the misguided belief that group content or multiplayer content is the only way to keep players engaged.

 

This is a fundamental misunderstanding. Keeping players playing is about rewards. Just like a casino. A concept that EA partially understands and exploits, but if they embraced it in a customer friendly way they would find people eager to remain subscribers. Instead of stopping when the content gets stale.

 

I suspect there is even a market for a premium subscription if they implemented it with an eye toward providing the customer with value for their money. Sadly, the history of the cartel market shows that this is unlikely.

 

The point is this...

 

We will run the same content over and over and over on unlimited alts if it is worthwhile.

 

You don't need to keep inventing new ops. You don't need to invent new stories. Yes, some people (who already complaining) will complain. But it won't matter. All you need to do is make the rewards system for existing content progress so that players of any playstyle - solo, PVP or Group feel a sense of accomplishment and most importantly advancement.

 

Whether that it is more strongholds to build and decorate. Ships to acquire, outfits to collect. Powers to unlock. Give us a never ending treadmill of things to acquire, and then make it easy to do it, on our own.

 

Ignore the elitist rlwho think that players must "earn" rewards. The word earn should have no place in a conversation about a recreational activity.

 

Players should get everything they want as long as they play for it (and pay for it). In other words, treat everyone's time as valuable.

 

Don't force group content or pointless grinds. Once I am done building one stronghold out, I'll make another. If there were other ways to advance your character people would just keep rolling up alt after alt.

 

You have the greatest IP of all time and the potential to create a never-ending RPG. That it is still frustrating to play solo six years after launch is all the evidence anyone needs to understand that EA, Bioware, etc doesn't understand this game as it is, but most importantly what it could be.

 

OK.

 

Honestly got to admit that I have NEVER agreed with anyone as much as I do with you / this comment. On any forum, anywhere, ever.

 

This game should be a license to print money, that it isn't is 100% entirely down to "management incompetence", and most of that incompetence is borne from the fact that Bioware has NEVER understood its core playerbase.

 

All The Best

[OvDarkness]

I apologize in advance for what will most likely be a long post ....

That out of the way ...

 

I feel the need to give some back ground to my SWTOR experience in order to give everyone, especially Eric, Keith and the developer team, insight to where I'm coming from ...

I am a long time Star Wars fan, and I have over years played nearly, if not all, Star Wars based games available to PC like so many of us in the community I'm sure. Around the time SWTOR was launched I was going to a horrible period in my life where I became severely anti-social and avoided people at all costs. (cant wait to see the insults fly over that lol) I became very interested in SWTOR though hesitated due to it being a MMO , but gave in and began the journey. I was amazed at how much there was available to someone who didn't want to be apart of big groups etc. Story was great, content was great, and options to both single player minded and group player minded people were available to a level that you could enjoy the game for days, weeks, months and yes YEARS! The best part, you could do what you wanted, when you wanted, how you wanted. Over time I've met some like minded people, in some cases a bit anti-social as well, and before you knew it we were grouping and not so anti-social anymore. The game has done a lot for those like myself over the years, and I'm sure for most people in some way in this game.

Most recently I was fortunate to become friends with couple who run a fairly small guild and decided to take some of my characters from my personal guild (SUPER small -less than 10 active members) and join theirs (fairly small - roughly 10 active members and 10 semi active members) and help with conquesting. I found a new incentive to run content that had started to become very stale, and even started for laughs conquesting at times with my personal guild. In both guilds at times we've managed to strategically select a planet based on our play styles and the objectives and off and on maintain a presence in the top 10 of the planets chosen.

The system prior to 5.8 allowed for that, yea big guilds dominated for the most part, but its still gave incentive for small guilds to try even if it was minimal incentive, cause they were able to achieve points, and sometimes rewards, for completing objectives they were already doing and could using as many alts as they had time to work on that week.

Quite honestly the only things that should have been tweaked would be ..

1) some separation between guild sizes .. preferably based on a rewards system (that made sense) instead of forcing it upon anyone

the current system was suppose to address this but failed miserably .. there's barely any difference between planet tier let alone a significant enough one to make a big guild go after the "grand prize"

2) one of the main focuses for guilds rewards wise is encryptions , it would have been nice if all guilds who participated received a low level of encryptions , not just the top 10, but give the top 10 double or triple etc

*in both 1) and 2) a potential increase could be to maybe throw in some top tier crafting materials such as Charged Matter Transubstatiators etc

When they started hyping 5.8 conquest changes they were "excited" that they were going to address these issues and make conquesting more enjoyable etc

THEY WERE WRONG on all accounts!

I get we are only in the 1st two days of the new system but everything so far, IF working properly, indicates this did not address any issues, nor did it make it more enjoyable on the contrary it made it more of a tedious chore.

There should be NO restrictions on HOW you play to earn points, especially across multiple characters. If there was some indication that certain things gain too many points , those points allotments should have been slightly reduced or a total cap placed upon it per character , NOT, as an example, restrict it to once per day PER LEGACY!

 

To add salt to the wound, so to speak, it appears many aspects of the new system is full of bugs/glitches, making it severely difficult to tell what restrictions were intended and which were not etc

This is added to by no explanations prior to release or VIA in game tooltips of what to expect, what parts of the interface indicate what etc

 

This was poorly thought out, poorly designed, poorly introduced and severely poorly executed!!

Keith, Eric and the developers all failed miserably and should be held accountable to some extent.

This should have been better thought out on how it would affect ALL game play aspects. It should have been tested for a significant time period with the community on the PTS, and there should have been a public relations campaign to inform the rest of the community about the changes , NOT just hype on the dev teams opinions on it.

 

Like so many others I could go on with complaints about details, and give my suggestions on what could fix them, but at this point I don't see why, Keith nor Eric have shown any indication that they're even listening.

 

Most, and I'd say 90% would be a fair percentage, of those I've seen comment on the new system, in these forums, elsewhere online and most importantly IN GAME, have had nothing but disappointment and disgust with this update. This includes people from all guild sizes, and all responsibility levels within those guilds. And I PERSONALLY watched and heard in voice my 2ndary guild leader, who is VERY conquest oriented, log out of SWTOR and voice due to frustration and disgust after several hours of attempts to give it a chance.

Whether or not people are unsubbing or not I don't know, but I have seen numerous claims of it. Yes its been said before, and yes in some cases people were just ranting and didn't end up cancelling their sub. But for once I do feel there may be a significant percentage who will.

The total disregard for the value of the players in the handling of this update is a huge slap in the face. Not whether we liked every aspect of the changes, but the lack of interacting in all stages with us .. concept, testing, informing, and potential changes, and most importantly not acknowledging our reactions the past 2 days.

[DarthSpuds]

I think it would go a long way toward calming people down if they explained some things.

 

They would need top understand those things on the same level as the players before they can explain.

 

And if there is one thing I am certain of is that there is no one at Bioware who understands this game anywhere near the same level as the players because most of them don't play the game as we do.

 

All The Best

[CaptRogue]

Wait. You said earllier in the thread YOU were able to repeat those 'legacy lockouts' so clearly everyone who can't is lying. Which side of your face is talking now?

 

Can you repeat the OPs for points or not? You said you could. You said those of us who can't were lying. Which one is it now?

 

No I did NOT. You need to re-read what I stated & stop putting words in my mouth that never was stated!

 

It was stated that "GF Ops of the day" was one time objective. People were throwing that around as it was a "Legacy Lockout". I said it was not. I've completed it on more than one toon. (Some stated it was a bug that some toons can, some can't. Which is understandable. Definitely needs fixed ASAP.)

 

Now the Listed Ops, that are always like that, TFB, SNV, XENO, are One Time Objectives & are One time objectives in the old system as you can see per the old dulfy link.

 

Get your facts straight before you come at someone calling them a liar.

[Savej]

I'll just echo most others: the new conquest system is bad. For me to get the rewards I would have to fundamentally change the way I play (in the prior system I did not). And the rewards are nothing special.

[Wopr]

No the problem with those of us who are opposing the vented hate in this, is how you all are going about it. Plus for me it's the fact yall are making up problems/info.

 

Like the whole "Legacy lockout" debacle. When that is NOTHING new that's been introduced. Just a new term so ppl are flippantly throwing it around to fuel their fire.

Same with the "Legacy lockout" of Ops. Apparently there is a bug, which DOES NEED to be fixed asap, but NOT all players have that. I for one do not. I can do the Op of the day for CP on every toon I have, that I've paid attention to so far. (I've not checked my whole set but I ran some last night. Each got the points.)

 

Does SOME of the changes suck? YES!

Does some of the changes need changed asap? YES!

Do the bugs need fixed? YES!

Does the game need rolled back? NO!

 

You all have every right to vent your frustrations, but do so with actual facts & not with sheer emotion feeding off of others rage & hating anyone who opposes your view.

 

There is good reason that Eric & Keith haven't stepped in here to say a word, that's because they would be eaten alive with anything they would say except maybe "we heard you & are rolling back the servers"...to which then the other side would be mad at that because that's a LOT of achievements & stuff lost.

 

Silence doesn't always mean they're not listening or caring. Just means they're not reacting. Big difference.

 

Your 3 listed issues you listed as YES would be fix with a rollback.

[EricMusco]

Hey folks,

 

Keep the feedback coming! Seeing your thoughts on the revamp is very helpful to the team. My plan is that tomorrow I want to get the following information into this thread: a breakdown of our intention around the Conquest revamp and a list of the feedback points that all of you have raised. This will allow you to see our thoughts on Conquests and then to highlight the feedback you have stated that we are actively reviewing internally.

 

Thanks everyone!

[ThomasStarWars]

hey folks,

 

keep the feedback coming! Seeing your thoughts on the revamp is very helpful to the team. My plan is that tomorrow i want to get the following information into this thread: A breakdown of our intention around the conquest revamp and a list of the feedback points that all of you have raised. This will allow you to see our thoughts on conquests and then to highlight the feedback you have stated that we are actively reviewing internally.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

finally some response thanks

[Estelindis]

Hey folks,

 

Keep the feedback coming! Seeing your thoughts on the revamp is very helpful to the team. My plan is that tomorrow I want to get the following information into this thread: a breakdown of our intention around the Conquest revamp and a list of the feedback points that all of you have raised. This will allow you to see our thoughts on Conquests and then to highlight the feedback you have stated that we are actively reviewing internally.

 

Thanks everyone!

Thanks Eric, the communication is sorely needed.

[ThomasStarWars]

Hey folks,

 

Keep the feedback coming! Seeing your thoughts on the revamp is very helpful to the team. My plan is that tomorrow I want to get the following information into this thread: a breakdown of our intention around the Conquest revamp and a list of the feedback points that all of you have raised. This will allow you to see our thoughts on Conquests and then to highlight the feedback you have stated that we are actively reviewing internally.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

hey eric,

 

please bring back the repeatable random flashpoint and remove the pvp win per day. put it back as it was. thanks.

[MacCleoud]

Hey folks,

 

Keep the feedback coming! Seeing your thoughts on the revamp is very helpful to the team. My plan is that tomorrow I want to get the following information into this thread: a breakdown of our intention around the Conquest revamp and a list of the feedback points that all of you have raised. This will allow you to see our thoughts on Conquests and then to highlight the feedback you have stated that we are actively reviewing internally.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

Thank you Musco. Can't wait to see what you guys have to say.

[AlainaFlute]

Hey folks,

 

Keep the feedback coming! Seeing your thoughts on the revamp is very helpful to the team. My plan is that tomorrow I want to get the following information into this thread: a breakdown of our intention around the Conquest revamp and a list of the feedback points that all of you have raised. This will allow you to see our thoughts on Conquests and then to highlight the feedback you have stated that we are actively reviewing internally.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

You literally said nothing with this. And you should have told us your intentions in the first place! The stream literally said nothing. Overhauling crafting was never mentioned. This kind of revamp should have been reviewed by actual players before ever having it go live. Something like on a......test server!!

[JediJoy]

Hold on mate. Don't leave just yet. They could still fix this to the advantage. It's only been implemented for a little over 24hrs...

 

And yes, while I posted that, I never had a problem with craft to win really. lol Heck that's how our guild got Iokath this last time around. It's very fun, albeit work, and extremely competitive.

I do understand that. (The whole randomness also has killed it somewhat, but on the other hand you can always just plan to have crafting ready as you have 1 week to plan ahead.)

 

First, Congrats on your Iokath win! Thats not an easy planet to win even on Total Galactic War.

 

Second, Im not ranting and raving like a few here (I saved that for voice chat with guildies); just want you to know that im not quitting over an emotional high. After the initial shock of all the changes and slight of hand regarding crafting, I calmed down and really evaluated what keeps me here.

 

Ive been a sub since F2P was first released (literally played for about 5 days and knew this was the game for me). Im typically the overly positive and rally the troops kind of guild leader. After the Revan story arc, I witnessed dear friends leave the game time and time again after each new patch or "re-balancing" the devs through at us. I stayed steadfast and encouraged others to ride the storm. Watching EA/Bioware chip at the content of this game over and over again and realizing that they are working off a skeleton crew with little to no funding to put back into swtor.

 

There is only so far good intentions will take you. I was excited to hear Keith was now in charge; it gave me a fresh cup of hope truly believing that he would finally get some funding brought back and things would improve. Communication is horrible at its best, little content streamlined the same way it was last year, nerfs for days on now everything, galactic command (need i say more?), and now this.....

 

It greatly saddens me to leave a game that ive loved for so long. SWTOR has been my home, my happy place. After everything, conquest was the last thing keeping me here. We all know how this ends. They arent going to roll back the patch. They will slightly increase the points across the board and that will be about it.

 

I appreciate your kind words and truly wish you the best.

[DarthSpuds]

Hey folks,

 

Keep the feedback coming! Seeing your thoughts on the revamp is very helpful to the team. My plan is that tomorrow I want to get the following information into this thread: a breakdown of our intention around the Conquest revamp and a list of the feedback points that all of you have raised. This will allow you to see our thoughts on Conquests and then to highlight the feedback you have stated that we are actively reviewing internally.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

Given that 99% of the feedback is entirely negative, do you honestly think you can afford to wait until tomorrow to start detailed communication with the playerbase?

 

By tomorrow I would want to be seeing a "drawing board" plan of what you are committed to doing to fixing this mess, with a reasonably solid timeframe.

 

Telling us that by tomorrow you "might be able to start talking about talking about" what you plan to do is imply not even on the same planet as "enough".

 

All The Best

Edited March 21, 2018 by DarthSpuds

[TUXs]

Hey folks,

 

Keep the feedback coming! Seeing your thoughts on the revamp is very helpful to the team. My plan is that tomorrow I want to get the following information into this thread: a breakdown of our intention around the Conquest revamp and a list of the feedback points that all of you have raised. This will allow you to see our thoughts on Conquests and then to highlight the feedback you have stated that we are actively reviewing internally.

 

Thanks everyone!

• Make everything repeatable on alts - NOTHING should be once per Legacy. NOTHING!

• EVERY PvP match, win or lose, MUST reward points

• EVERY GSF match, win or lose, MUST reward points

• State in the conquest notes if something is repeatable or not (clearly - like it was)

• You've got to increase some points...those were hit far too hard.

• Restore crafting to how it was - maybe add in a diminishing return to points. Crafting is a VERY important thing to this game imo.

Edited March 21, 2018 by TUXs