gamephil Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Would Arcann help Senya? I think that, were she to make such a decision, he has enough respect for her that he might stay out of the way and let her do what she thinks she must. It would presumably come down to "Arcann, talk her out of it (LS)", "[stay silent]", "Sacrifice Arcann (DS)". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I think it would depend on whether she thought Vaylin could also be "redeemed". Or at least helped. Leaving Arcann to help his sister to heal, entrusting her to him, is something I could see her doing if she thought there was hope. For them both. She may not react that well to Senya, but she may listen to Arcann. She did in the mind battle, she may listen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 She may not react that well to Senya, but she may listen to Arcann. She did in the mind battle, she may listen again. Between Senya proving without ambiguity that she loves her daughter and Arcann being there to help her as he's been helped, I think she could be convinced. Not suddenly "good" or healed, but willing to work with us, anyway. And it gives us that whole "you can't save everyone" thing that BW and the fans are so fond of. Senya sacrifices herself, get a slightly more stable Vaylin, sacrifice them both (because I can't imagine either standing for that treatment from you) get the one we're used to, or stop it and keep Senya and Arcann. I'd just as soon save them all at this point, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderTwo Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I don't know that going behind the Commander's back to save her daughter (what I assume Paul was going for) would really be "betrayal", though. At least not any more than flying off with Arcann, and I have to squint to view that as a betrayal, personally. I mean, they even give us the option to trust her in that final scene. Some day I'll treat them all to a quick death and try to shoot her down. I guess. But that day is not today. If Senya was going to extraordinary lengths to save Vaylin, I wouldn't really see it as a betrayal, Senya is just being a mother on a crusade to save her children from the darkness. I suppose you could argue she should tell you what she's doing, or should Vaylin start to cause trouble, then that would be on Senya. Is there any consequence of shooting at Senya and Arcann when they're in the shuttle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Is there any consequence of shooting at Senya and Arcann when they're in the shuttle? Not a bit. Koth even approves rather than storming off, not that that has any consequences, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Isn't there some dialog difference at the start of KOTET when you talk to Senya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Isn't there some dialog difference at the start of KOTET when you talk to Senya? Sometimes I forget that I haven't played all paths, so I wouldn't be surprised to have missed that. I'd be glad to see some kind of result from that choice. As far as I know from people who have, though, saving or condemning them still goes about the same. I really need to get through the thing with a dark side character some time, just to see that stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 You still get the option to choose between helping or killing Senya, so it had no major impact on the story. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iheaca Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) I don't know that going behind the Commander's back to save her daughter (what I assume Paul was going for) would really be "betrayal", though. At least not any more than flying off with Arcann, and I have to squint to view that as a betrayal, personally. I mean, they even give us the option to trust her in that final scene. Some day I'll treat them all to a quick death and try to shoot her down. I guess. But that day is not today. If Senya was going to extraordinary lengths to save Vaylin, I wouldn't really see it as a betrayal, Senya is just being a mother on a crusade to save her children from the darkness. I suppose you could argue she should tell you what she's doing, or should Vaylin start to cause trouble, then that would be on Senya. Is there any consequence of shooting at Senya and Arcann when they're in the shuttle? As a mother, I would not consider it betrayal. Just something a mother has to do, no matter what. But as a Commander, especially one who has been betrayed many tmes already, I'd probably take it as another betrayal if it comes unexpected. And yes, the Commander part in me decided that Senya had already betrayed when she fled with Arcann. Understanding the reasons does not change it a bit. As is said sometimes, forgiven, not forgotten. It would probably be different if Senya is not doing it entirely behind our back. Then it is not pure betrayal anymore. I could see the PC get convinced and give strict conditions. PS for gamephil: I haven't seen your post before you deleted it but anyway. Just know that I am not one who gets hurt by confronting opinions as long as it is done in a decent and friendly manner. Edited May 1, 2018 by Iheaca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banimoka Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I don't necessarily think that giving her to the players as companion is a good idea. - everyone has his own idea about what is proper or not - the KEY thing to remember here is other people then u want something and they don't care about your opinion - and it takes like 5 min to make a Vaylin companion ... literally , it just won't be cannot without an alliance alert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderTwo Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 - everyone has his own idea about what is proper or not - the KEY thing to remember here is other people then u want something and they don't care about your opinion - and it takes like 5 min to make a Vaylin companion ... literally , it just won't be cannot without an alliance alert Come on dude, he may not agree with those of us who want Vaylin to come back, but his opinion is just as valid as our own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) As a mother, I would not consider it betrayal. Just something a mother has to do, no matter what. But as a Commander, especially one who has been betrayed many tmes already, I'd probably take it as another betrayal if it comes unexpected. And yes, the Commander part in me decided that Senya had already betrayed when she fled with Arcann. Understanding the reasons does not change it a bit. As is said sometimes, forgiven, not forgotten. It would probably be different if Senya is not doing it entirely behind our back. Then it is not pure betrayal anymore. I could see the PC get convinced and give strict conditions. This is pretty much why I shouldn't be the Commander of these people. I'm too tender hearted. I'd prefer if she would just ask for help, but I'd probably forgive her again if she didn't cause any harm in pursuing this goal. PS for gamephil: I haven't seen your post before you deleted it but anyway. Just know that I am not one who gets hurt by confronting opinions as long as it is done in a decent and friendly manner. Thank you, but I still felt bad, and it wasn't really a disagreement I cared to pursue, since someone noticing her disappearing really should be a part of the story if it went that way, anyway. Edited May 1, 2018 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderTwo Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 This is pretty much why I shouldn't be the Commander of these people. I'm too tender hearted. I'd prefer if she would just ask for help, but I'd probably forgive her again if she didn't cause any harm in pursuing this goal. Same, If Senya truly believes in the decision she's making then I doubt I could punish her either. If she attacked our people to accomplish her objective, then I might oppose her plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iheaca Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Same, If Senya truly believes in the decision she's making then I doubt I could punish her either. If she attacked our people to accomplish her objective, then I might oppose her plans. It might as well come from the fact that I am playing sith. Not a dark side sith anymore in the way I see her but still not a pure kind hearted neither. And I am considering the leader's credibility as well. How would a ruler who forgives too much be perceived, especially if sith? That's an open door to other betrayals and people not caring at all what the orders are. But of course this remains my way of seeing and handling the situation. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 It might as well come from the fact that I am playing sith. Not a dark side sith anymore in the way I see her but still not a pure kind hearted neither. And I am considering the leader's credibility as well. How would a ruler who forgives too much be perceived, especially if sith? That's an open door to other betrayals and people not caring at all what the orders are. But of course this remains my way of seeing and handling the situation. :-) Hmmm ... I imagine it would end on something like ... LS: All is forgiven. ? Neutral: ??? DS: Tell Vaylin she can stay if she kills Senya ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iheaca Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Hmmm ... I imagine it would end on something like ... LS: All is forgiven. ? Neutral: ??? DS: Tell Vaylin she can stay if she kills Senya ? Neutral go away swearing that they are definitely done with all these people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Neutral go away swearing that they are definitely done with all these people? That or exile Senya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 It might as well come from the fact that I am playing sith. Not a dark side sith anymore in the way I see her but still not a pure kind hearted neither. And I am considering the leader's credibility as well. How would a ruler who forgives too much be perceived, especially if sith? That's an open door to other betrayals and people not caring at all what the orders are. But of course this remains my way of seeing and handling the situation. :-) I also have characters that wouldn't be as forgiving. I was just saying what my reaction to a mother trying to save her son and daughter would be. Lana would just have to put up with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderTwo Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I also have characters that wouldn't be as forgiving. I was just saying what my reaction to a mother trying to save her son and daughter would be. Lana would just have to put up with me. Lana may end up agreeing with the situation at hand regardless of the outcome, she's a Sith, she could see Vaylin as a strong ally for the future war with the Republic or Empire. That is, after she verbally announces her opinion on the subject whether we care for it or not. Even my Sith Assassin would think twice before reacting, she restored her family (Kallig) honor, so we may sympathize with Senya's plight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iheaca Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I may be more forgiving if Arcann pleads for his mother well and hard enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderTwo Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I may be more forgiving if Arcann pleads for his mother well and hard enough... Speaking of Arcann, what if Vaylin appeared to him asking for help instead? What would he do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banimoka Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Come on dude, he may not agree with those of us who want Vaylin to come back, but his opinion is just as valid as our own. - his opinion is INVALID because us asking for a Vaylin companion does NOT interfere in any way with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iheaca Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Speaking of Arcann, what if Vaylin appeared to him asking for help instead? What would he do? He would probably try to help. He has nothing against her, he knows that she has been broken even more than him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderTwo Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 - his opinion is INVALID because us asking for a Vaylin companion does NOT interfere in any way with him He said it doesn't think it'll work, the better option would be to discuss it with him, maybe we'll convince him? maybe he'll convince us? either way it's better than simply labelling his opinion as invalid. He would probably try to help. He has nothing against her, he knows that she has been broken even more than him. Maybe future content for Arcann then? Maybe he's trying to save his sister? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iheaca Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Maybe future content for Arcann then? Maybe he's trying to save his sister? Definitely as many chances as next steps in the Arcann romance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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