If SWTOR is losing players, how can Bioware turn things around?

[Lunablade]

I can see that some people in this thread are confused about what this game is supposed to be. But let me say this - when this game was in the process of making it was promoted as an subscription based MMO with enough of bells and whistles which an MMO should have ( raids, dungeons, battlegrounds ) to compete with even the WoW but in which the story would be much better done than in others. To the surprise of many it turned out to be more a single player game in an online universe than a proper MMO which would more focus on engaging multiplayer activities and give the reason to the players to continue subbing for a longer periods of time to the game after they have experienced the story content.

 

Let me be clear also about something else - I love the story of this game and enjoy it but for me to consider this game as my primary MMO it needs much better balance of both worlds - the story content and the endgame and I think that many other players which played this game or are still playing share the same view.

 

Here's also good video about this subject to

Edited January 8, 2018 by Lunablade

[jojobanutz]

On the subject of Difficulty / Leveling Speed, I've seen multiple new players in Fleet chat asking whether SWTOR ever gets challenging. Basically they were becoming bored because of the ease with which they were progressing.

 

The crazy thing is, the systems to enable players to adjust thier own game difficulty ALREADY exist in the game. Legacy perks that enable XP gain bonuses, the White Acute Module, Cartel XP bonus items. All these use already developed systems and demonstrate that if only Bio actually cared to do it, they could easily supply us with the means to reduce our XP gain to taste, thus increasing the level of challenge we would experience in our battles. It would require only minimal effort on thier part.

 

LOTRO sells an item in thier game store that enables players to halt XP gain entirely, and I believe that WoW may also have added such an item. There is obvious demand for such items/abilities.

 

No button or difficulty slider needed, no new system development.

 

It blows my mind that Bio appear to want to rush everyone through the game at maximum speed, regardles of how players themselves may prefer to progress. The rush to end game is not to everyones taste. Give people the option to play as they prefer and they'll stick around longer.

 

How high on the priority system is this requested change? Resources spent on one thing takes away from another.

Nobody here has any info on Bio's various priorities, but even so, I seriously doubt it's just one big list xD

 

Regardless, they doubtless have several 'Big Tasks' and a load of 'Small Tasks' that will progressed alongside the 'Biggies'.

 

No game is perfect, all we as customers can do is make suggestions we feel would improve things. Bio are the only ones who can decide what if any of our suggestions are cost effective and may be beneficial SWTOR.

 

That said, the mere existence of the White Acute Module is a direct result of Bio listening to players. It did take them a LONG time to introduce it, but it was much appreciated by a sizeable chunk of the player base.

 

Who knows, some of the suggestions in this thread may bear similar fruit.

 

[olagatonjedi]

I understand, there are many swtor players that enjoy story and story alone, a game like WoW does not appeal to them in any way, which is fine. But WoW in its entirety has more things to offer. they have better story today than they ever did, more raids, more dungeons, pet battles, more warzones, frequent enough expansions, class balance changed constantly, more pets and more mounts, much more variation in armor sets, scenarios, more difficulties in instances, easier grouping system and the list goes on. SWTOR could have been a good competitor, but everything just kinda plummeted.

WoW and SWTOR are the only mmo's I'll ever play, the rest just doesn't appeal to me. in swtor I enjoy the story and my companions, in WoW I enjoy the PvE content, whereas in swtor I don't really. playing both balances things out for me.

WoW has been out longer, so i would imagine it has a lot more available content due to that.

 

Also, as far as pvp zones, swtor has more pvp battlezones per year as well as open-world pvp available in nearly every zone.

[Eshvara]

WoW has been out longer, so i would imagine it has a lot more available content due to that.

 

Also, as far as pvp zones, swtor has more pvp battlezones per year as well as open-world pvp available in nearly every zone.

 

What is battlezones per year? OWPvP is dead in swtor, and pretty abandoned in WoW, but you'll still find people pvping as there is actually incentive to go out into the world. But nothing spectacular.

 

I'm going to go with what Dasty said however, you know nothing about WoW, and there isn't any point in going on about it.

I love swtor and I love WoW.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Eshvara

[olagatonjedi]

I can see that some people in this thread are confused about what this game is supposed to be. But let me say this - when this game was in the process of making it was promoted as an subscription based MMO with enough of bells and whistles which an MMO should have ( raids, dungeons, battlegrounds ) to compete with even the WoW but in which the story would be much better done than in others. To the surprise of many it turned out to be more a single player game in an online universe than a proper MMO which would more focus on engaging multiplayer activities and give the reason to the players to continue subbing for a longer periods of time to the game after they have experienced the story content.

 

Let me be clear also about something else - I love the story of this game and enjoy it but for me to consider this game as my primary MMO it needs much better balance of both worlds - the story content and the endgame and I think that many other players which played this game or are still playing share the same view.

 

Here's also good video about this subject to

I respect your view, but adaptation to the market is necessary as it changes. There is a huge chunk of players who cant commit more than 30-60mins a day on the game, but still seek the dynamic environment that an MMO offers. Sometimes people log in and spend 15 mins in queue, which leaves them with less than enough time to complete the longer content. An adaptation needed to be made to retain those players, as they are likely the majority of the market in the first place. In fact, they made the game available for everyone to be active in something meaningful regardless of what level you are, whether you have friends or guildies or not. At least the option is there - whatever your situation AND interests are.

[olagatonjedi]

What is battlezones per year? OWPvP is dead in swtor, and pretty abandoned in WoW, but you'll still find people pvping as there is actually incentive to go out into the world. But nothing spectacular.

 

I'm going to go with what Dasty said however, you know nothing about WoW, and there isn't any point in going on about it.

I love swtor and I love WoW.

My wife, and a few friends, play WoW, so i have a reliable resource for WoW content on a macro level, and in depth if needed, but im not trying to get into specific details of WoW with my statements.

 

I note 14 battlegrounds/pvp zones on wows website, in 13 yrs of existence. Swtor has been out for 6 years, amd there are more than 7 warzones available. Hence, more pvp zones released per year, on average.

Edited January 8, 2018 by olagatonjedi

[Eshvara]

My wife, and a few friends, play WoW, so i have a reliable resource for WoW content on a macro level, and in depth if needed, but im not trying to get into specific details of WoW with my statements.

 

I note 14 battlegrounds/pvp zones on wows website, in 13 yrs of existence. Swtor has been out for 6 years, amd there are more than 7 warzones available. Hence, more pvp zones released per year, on average.

 

....Ok then.

[LordArtemis]

There was an interesting post over at MassivelyOP

 

Hyperspace Beacon - Three things swtor could add in 2018 to turn itself around

 

I found it an interesting read, though I did not agree with all of its conclusions. It was also interesting to read the replies.

Edited January 8, 2018 by LordArtemis

[Lunablade]

I respect your view, but adaptation to the market is necessary as it changes. There is a huge chunk of players who cant commit more than 30-60mins a day on the game, but still seek the dynamic environment that an MMO offers. Sometimes people log in and spend 15 mins in queue, which leaves them with less than enough time to complete the longer content. An adaptation needed to be made to retain those players, as they are likely the majority of the market in the first place. In fact, they made the game available for everyone to be active in something meaningful regardless of what level you are, whether you have friends or guildies or not. At least the option is there - whatever your situation AND interests are.

 

You assume to much, if the bolded part would be truth than SWTOR wouldn't have lost so many players and guilds over the years, this game simply doesn't offer enough for dedicated MMO type of the players compared with the content other games of this genre offer to them. A lot of the raiders left the game because they got tired of long waiting for the new content to get made and they got bored with doing the same one for dozens of times. I'm not a PvP player myself but I know from the time I played more actively that the game engine is not rly good for open world PvP ( Ilum turned to be disaster because of that, people had crazy lag there even on best computers ) and warzones always had problems with glitches and cheaters and Bw struggled to fix that. About the content for the casuals which log here and there to the game just to play story and some flashpoint I agree there is enough of it here, but I don't think how those type of the players make the majority of the ones which started this game and wanted from it to be their primary MMO. And if you look on the market MMOs with most gamers are the ones which got frequent updates for their active communities ( games like LoL and WoW ) .

Edited January 8, 2018 by Lunablade

[Amikae]

Can anyone explain to me why they require a subscription for end game content and activities, but don't really provide any rewards for it?

 

Since I recently resubbed after a long break, greatly enjoyed the story content and couldn't wait to get into end game so I can find a nice looking set for my character. I quickly found out that I actually can't really do that, because the items obtainable with gameplay are ridiculously god awful and the real good stuff that I can see myself RP with is in the Cash Shop. Not even that, but you actually can't even buy the best looking sets and cosmetics, you have to buy loot boxes and pray to the RNG gods.

 

So what I did is I just bought one of the sets available for cartel coins, which isn't even close to the great looking sets, but still looks far better than anything I can obtain in the game and now I don't need to play this character anymore, even though I want to.

 

But why would I play it if there's nothing to play for? This game isn't free, I need to keep my sub up, but I don't really need to play to get the stuff I want, I need to open my wallet and buy boxes from the cash shop. It's really counter intuitive. There are a ton of end game systems, but no rewards to speak of. Why should I continue playing, to increase my hp and damage numbers?

 

WoW is also a subscription based MMO and the vast majority of players play that game to get the newest awesome looking armors and mounts. So why would anyone play SWTOR, which costs exactly the same, but gates the cool loot behind another paywall randomized at that?

 

After finishing all the class stories and then the KOTFE/KOTET once or twice, there is no incentive to continue playing. Had the game been 100% free to play, then I can see why they would put the good cosmetic in their cash shop, but as it stands right now, I'm just going to finish the few remaining class stories I have to finish and be done with SWTOR until another story chapter releases.

[olagatonjedi]

You assume to much, if the bolded part would be truth than SWTOR wouldn't have lost so many players and guilds over the years, this game simply doesn't offer enough for dedicated MMO type of the players compared with the content other games of this genre offer to them. A lot of the raiders left the game because they got tired of long waiting for the new content to get made and they got bored with doing the same one for dozens of times.

Perhaps I couldve worded it differently. The game is more inclusive now, because of the changes they made. That said, it doesnt guarantee everyone will like it, because it deviates heavily from the standard MMO experience many have come to know and love. Look at just about any change that any MMO makes, and there is controversy surrounding the change and/or the decision to change. People have left and returned WoW in large amounts before, for various reasons including playerbased overhype and hyperexpectations that never met the demand, but I attribute that to the playerbase, not the company. The playerbase is hard to please, especially when they are overly passionate and have millions of ideas they think are "needed" for success. As for amount of content, I have already addressed it before, and again, the demand of players is much more than can be supplied by any company.

 

About the content for the casuals which log here and there to the game just to play story and some flashpoint I agree there is enough of it here, but I don't think how those type of the players make the majority of the ones which started this game and wanted from it to be their primary MMO. And if you look on the market MMOs with most gamers are the ones which got frequent updates for their active communities ( games like LoL and WoW ) .

Dont mistake the vocal minority for the majority of players. There are definitely still players out there that can spend multiple hours playing, but their presence isnt what it was when MMOs were at their prime.

[DWho]

You assume to much, if the bolded part would be truth than SWTOR wouldn't have lost so many players and guilds over the years, this game simply doesn't offer enough for dedicated MMO type of the players compared with the content other games of this genre offer to them. A lot of the raiders left the game because they got tired of long waiting for the new content to get made and they got bored with doing the same one for dozens of times. I'm not a PvP player myself but I know from the time I played more actively that the game engine is not rly good for open world PvP ( Ilum turned to be disaster because of that, people had crazy lag there even on best computers ) and warzones always had problems with glitches and cheaters and Bw struggled to fix that. About the content for the casuals which log here and there to the game just to play story and some flashpoint I agree there is enough of it here, but I don't think how those type of the players make the majority of the ones which started this game and wanted from it to be their primary MMO. And if you look on the market MMOs with most gamers are the ones which got frequent updates for their active communities ( games like LoL and WoW ) .

 

You are very much confusing what people thought the game would be at launch vs what it was vs what it is now. What you wanted the game to be (or what others wanted it to be) is not relevant at this point. Nothing Bioware can do will bring back all these "MMO players" you seem to think are out there chomping at the bit to play SWTOR again (which I doubt there are but you are entitled to your opinion). The truth of the matter is that the game has become (or evolved if you like) into something that is more like an online RPG than the Co-op game that you want. We have to deal with that and make the best of it. By far the biggest loss of players was between 1.0 and 2.0 which was a result of mistaken expectations by the people who joined at launch (It was not and never was going to be Star Wars Galaxies II). At that time, the game had a comparable balance of RPG and MMO content to virtually all of the other "MMOs" that were active at the time

[olagatonjedi]

Can anyone explain to me why they require a subscription for end game content and activities, but don't really provide any rewards for it?

They have endgame content that drops endgame items. The monthly sub is for access to the content thats available, like any monthly subbed mmo. Think of it like cell phone service. You pay for access to the network. Can you hear me now?

 

Since I recently resubbed after a long break, greatly enjoyed the story content and couldn't wait to get into end game so I can find a nice looking set for my character. I quickly found out that I actually can't really do that, because the items obtainable with gameplay are ridiculously god awful and the real good stuff that I can see myself RP with is in the Cash Shop. Not even that, but you actually can't even buy the best looking sets and cosmetics, you have to buy loot boxes and pray to the RNG gods.

 

So what I did is I just bought one of the sets available for cartel coins, which isn't even close to the great looking sets, but still looks far better than anything I can obtain in the game and now I don't need to play this character anymore, even though I want to.

As for cosmetics, that is simply opinion. Basic starter gear looks fine to me, personally.

 

But why would I play it if there's nothing to play for? This game isn't free, I need to keep my sub up, but I don't really need to play to get the stuff I want, I need to open my wallet and buy boxes from the cash shop. It's really counter intuitive. There are a ton of end game systems, but no rewards to speak of. Why should I continue playing, to increase my hp and damage numbers?

Sometimes you have to pose these questions to yourself. If youre not getting what you want from the available content, then maybe its not the game for you.

 

WoW is also a subscription based MMO and the vast majority of players play that game to get the newest awesome looking armors and mounts. So why would anyone play SWTOR, which costs exactly the same, but gates the cool loot behind another paywall randomized at that?

Consider that they are different games with different draws. Just because one game does something doesnt mean others will follow in their footsteps. Not all visions are the same.

 

After finishing all the class stories and then the KOTFE/KOTET once or twice, there is no incentive to continue playing. Had the game been 100% free to play, then I can see why they would put the good cosmetic in their cash shop, but as it stands right now, I'm just going to finish the few remaining class stories I have to finish and be done with SWTOR until another story chapter releases.

Sounds like an excellent decision. Many players take that stance with multiple games so they constantly have "new" content to play.

Edited January 8, 2018 by olagatonjedi

[Anzel]

1. Add Cartel Dyes and other missing Cartel items to Collections.

2. Get rid of gambling packs and sell everything directly from the Collections window.

3. Remove the Command Rank nonsense.

4. Regular content updates.

5. Add weapons and companions to the Outfit Designer

[Amikae]

As for cosmetics, that is simply opinion. Basic starter gear looks fine to me, personally.

 

Basic starter gear is not fine, the quality of leveling armors is horrendous. I checked out the highest tier armor for my class and it looks almost exactly like the green set you get from finishing KOTET, just with a bit more detail.

 

MMOs in general revolve around making you character looking cool. Full free to play MMOs can afford to have the best cosmetics behind a pay wall because they provide all the gameplay content for free, but subscription based MMOs cannot afford to do that, hence why SWTOR is tanking. They put way more effort into the cartel shop, rather than the core game.

 

You can't have it both ways, they are either going to go full free to play or they simply need to stop with this cash shop nonsense.

[Lunablade]

Perhaps I couldve worded it differently. The game is more inclusive now, because of the changes they made.

 

I don't see that game got more inclusive in any way with the changes which was made to it but that it only alienated with the way how is getting updated and with what content is being developed big enough population of the playerbase.

 

Look at just about any change that any MMO makes, and there is controversy surrounding the change and/or the decision to change. People have left and returned WoW in large amounts before, for various reasons including playerbased overhype and hyperexpectations that never met the demand, but I attribute that to the playerbase, not the company. The playerbase is hard to please, especially when they are overly passionate and have millions of ideas they think are "needed" for success. As for amount of content, I have already addressed it before, and again, the demand of players is much more than can be supplied by any company.

 

While that might be true that players always wish to have more content than less, for WoW most gamers could never say how it lacks on multiplayer aspects of the game, and how there isn't enough of content for them or how that game is not getting big enough regular chunks of updates but for SWTOR they can.

 

 

Dont mistake the vocal minority for the majority of players. There are definitely still players out there that can spend multiple hours playing, but their presence isnt what it was when MMOs were at their prime.

 

I'm not mistaking anything, MMOS are still very popular just as long as they are properly managed. WoW is still going strong after all those years with an subscription based model, Final Fantasy MMO managed to get a proper reboot and its devs are working hard to get updates to the game on regular basis and they have normal full fleshed raids there and not like in SWTOR where we get like 2 or 3 bosses per year if lucky, and the population of the ESO got increased and is apparently now around 10 million of players.

 

From those MMOS which were made as AAA games only SWTOR is going atm downhill, at launch it did had around 2 million of players from which majority have left since they weren't happy with the way how the game was managed and got big server merges to the point that now it has only 3 servers left, with only few players keeping the game alive mostly through the cartel market since very small minority is willing to subscribe now for a longer periods of time. And that minority is consisted mostly of SW fans and single player gamers which are unable to see that this game needs some big changes to turn the things around for the better and to become a decent MMO which could compete with the ones I mentioned.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Lunablade

[Lunablade]

You are very much confusing what people thought the game would be at launch vs what it was vs what it is now. What you wanted the game to be (or what others wanted it to be) is not relevant at this point. Nothing Bioware can do will bring back all these "MMO players" you seem to think are out there chomping at the bit to play SWTOR again (which I doubt there are but you are entitled to your opinion). The truth of the matter is that the game has become (or evolved if you like) into something that is more like an online RPG than the Co-op game that you want. We have to deal with that and make the best of it. By far the biggest loss of players was between 1.0 and 2.0 which was a result of mistaken expectations by the people who joined at launch (It was not and never was going to be Star Wars Galaxies II). At that time, the game had a comparable balance of RPG and MMO content to virtually all of the other "MMOs" that were active at the time

 

I'm not the one confused here, maybe you are because this game was hyped and advertised as a full fleshed MMO before the launch and not a CO-op game or a rpg in an online universe so I expected from it to be that. I never said that I wanted another SWG and I was aware that it would be themepark type of the game from the start but I never thought just like many also haven't that it would have such huge lack of multiplayer endgame content in development.

 

This game could turn around just if it would start getting big enough funding again to get proper updates and if the devs would start looking more on multiplayer aspects of it. If this game would get some experienced folks with creating and managing multiplayer type of the games at managing positions from Blizzard for example I would bet that it could be turned around especially since its still only SW ("MM")ORPG on the market.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Lunablade

[DWho]

I'm not the one confused here, maybe you are because this game was hyped and advertised as a full fleshed MMO before the launch and not a CO-op game or a rpg in an online universe. I never said that I wanted another SWG and I was aware that it would be themepark type of the game from the start but I never thought just like many also haven't that it would have such huge lack of multiplayer endgame content in development.

 

This game could turn around just if it would start getting big enough funding again to get proper updates and if the devs would start looking more on multiplayer aspects of it. If this game would get some experienced folks with creating and managing multiplayer type of the games at managing positions from Blizzard for example I would bet that it could be turned around especially since its still only SW ( "MM")ORPG on the market.

 

As I said, what you or anyone else expected the game to be is not relevant. The game launched with a whole lot of multiplayer content (2 Operations, a dozen flashpoints, 3-4 heroics per planet, and even some of the leveling content almost required grouping). None of that stopped the game from losing more than 3/4 of its subs by the time it got to 3.0. The story was more in depth than that seen in other MMOs but that was what was "hyped". All of the advertisements for the game were of a "story-driven" game. For 3 updates it maintained it's MMO character with additional group content being released at each stage. For 4.0 they tried something different and it didn't work out as well as they hoped because it alienated not only the "MMO" people but the "RPG" people as well. 5.0 was similar although it added additional MMO content (Uprisings, open world PVP on Iokath, more flashpoints) which was poorly received. So the loss of subs is due to poorly received "MMO" content and poorly recevied "RPG" content not lack of "MMO" content. The small amount of content is because the game lost all those players by the time it even got to 3.0 (the last significant expansion) which was when it still had a "classic MMO" feel.

[ExarSun]

LOL...2017 with its refocusing on group content "turned" it pretty good....downhill. Nice time scale of the content - a year of it can be done in a day, and you can prolly grind it for two weeks or so until you return to replaying the class stories or grinding CXP and doing daily GF OPS and etc... Its not about the type of content, its about how well it is done and how many of it there is to keep you occupied. Edited January 8, 2018 by ExarSun

[TUXs]

I am pretty sure the fact Bioware shut down the West Coast server, wrote off the entire region of APAC, alongside merging PVE/PVP servers into the historical RP server "Ebon Hawk", indicates they have no intention of turning things around.

It's so obvious...yet some people refuse to believe it.

[Lunablade]

As I said, what you or anyone else expected the game to be is not relevant. The game launched with a whole lot of multiplayer content (2 Operations, a dozen flashpoints, 3-4 heroics per planet, and even some of the leveling content almost required grouping). None of that stopped the game from losing more than 3/4 of its subs by the time it got to 3.0. The story was more in depth than that seen in other MMOs but that was what was "hyped". All of the advertisements for the game were of a "story-driven" game. For 3 updates it maintained it's MMO character with additional group content being released at each stage. For 4.0 they tried something different and it didn't work out as well as they hoped because it alienated not only the "MMO" people but the "RPG" people as well. 5.0 was similar although it added additional MMO content (Uprisings, open world PVP on Iokath, more flashpoints) which was poorly received. So the loss of subs is due to poorly received "MMO" content and poorly recevied "RPG" content not lack of "MMO" content. The small amount of content is because the game lost all those players by the time it even got to 3.0 (the last significant expansion) which was when it still had a "classic MMO" feel.

 

I guess you have never played some serious MMO if you think that the endgame PvE content with which this game got launched was " huge ". The operations were so easy that any pug groups could clear them to full on 1 day when they started to raid them because they had very easy and trivial mechanics even in HM of them. Besides that they were filled with the bugs so its no wonder that reception of that content wasn't good.

 

And the number of the FP was not that impressive either considering that they were also mostly made to be back than just tank and spank and that games like WoW launch now their expansions with 12 dungeons with many different modes of difficulty from day one.

 

Even in the testing phase before the game got launched some testers warned the devs how its not smart to rush the release of the game with the endgame content in that state but they were mostly ignored so it wasn't a big surprise for me that for many MMO players that content just wasn't enough to keep them subbed for more than a few months.

Edited January 11, 2018 by Lunablade

[LordArtemis]

Yes, I think the starter gear should look like the gear that is displayed when you are creating the character. It should Orange adaptive armor, legacy bound, with one high level top slot mod installed, like in the XP set...one that does not have a level requirement.

[olagatonjedi]

I don't see that game got more inclusive in any way with the changes which was made to it but that it only alienated with the way how is getting updated and with what content is being developed big enough population of the playerbase.

The game is more inclusive because anyone, on any toon, can get involved in any aspect of the game at nearly any time they want.

 

While that might be true that players always wish to have more content than less, for WoW most gamers could never say how it lacks on multiplayer aspects of the game, and how there isn't enough of content for them or how that game is not getting big enough regular chunks of updates but for SWTOR they can.

There are plenty of people who say that all mmos lack content.

 

I'm not mistaking anything, MMOS are still very popular just as long as they are properly managed. WoW is still going strong after all those years with an subscription based model, Final Fantasy MMO managed to get a proper reboot and its devs are working hard to get updates to the game on regular basis and they have normal full fleshed raids there and not like in SWTOR where we get like 2 or 3 bosses per year if lucky, and the population of the ESO got increased and is apparently now around 10 million of players.

That doesnt mean they have as many players playing long hours.

 

From those MMOS which were made as AAA games only SWTOR is going atm downhill, at launch it did had around 2 million of players from which majority have left since they weren't happy with the way how the game was managed and got big server merges to the point that now it has only 3 servers left, with only few players keeping the game alive mostly through the cartel market since very small minority is willing to subscribe now for a longer periods of time. And that minority is consisted mostly of SW fans and single player gamers which are unable to see that this game needs some big changes to turn the things around for the better and to become a decent MMO which could compete with the ones I mentioned.

A lot of this comes from the idealism of the fanbase. You can see how polarizing TLJ was when it was released, with people stating it was the best SW movie to comaints that it was the worst. The fanbase of SW is much more passionate about swtor because they have decades of lore to have built from. Read the internet in general, and you will see thousands of people dissecting every scene of TLJ to basically create their own vision of what episode 9 will be like, just as they did after episode 7, for episode 8. And if their vision doesnt manifest itself in the movie, or the movie doesnt follow the same path, they voice their frustration that "i feel the movie couldve done so much more." Sound familiar to swtor at all? With a large fanbase comes an impossible challenge to meet everyones wants and needs, and if you dont, they will feel you have let the IP down, and move on. Hence, the quick drop after the release, and an ever passionate forum of people voicing their visions even after.6 years of hate and letdown.

[Fearchronicle]

 

 

There are plenty of people who say that all mmos lack content.

 

People complain but the content of WoW, FF14, Eso, etc ... is incomparable to SWTOR.

 

A lot of this comes from the idealism of the fanbase. You can see how polarizing TLJ was when it was released, with people stating it was the best SW movie to comaints that it was the worst. The fanbase of SW is much more passionate about swtor because they have decades of lore to have built from. Read the internet in general, and you will see thousands of people dissecting every scene of TLJ to basically create their own vision of what episode 9 will be like, just as they did after episode 7, for episode 8. And if their vision doesnt manifest itself in the movie, or the movie doesnt follow the same path, they voice their frustration that "i feel the movie couldve done so much more." Sound familiar to swtor at all? With a large fanbase comes an impossible challenge to meet everyones wants and needs, and if you dont, they will feel you have let the IP down, and move on. Hence, the quick drop after the release, and an ever passionate forum of people voicing their visions even after.6 years of hate and letdown.

 

Idealism of the fans?

 

Bioware and EA themselves sold the dream with their articles and commercials before the release of the game.

 

If a lot of people are gone it's also because this game was clearly far from over when it was released.

If SWTOR had come out with more than class story, players would have stayed and could have done the other activities. The devs clearly underestimated the speed and difficulty that the other activities would have had. Most activities were done in 1-2 days after the release and the rest of the time had to do what? Add to that the stuff of operations and flashpoints that were worth nothing compared to the stuff of leveling, no wonder everyone gets stuck if when you encourage a player to do an activity, there is no carrot at the end.

[olagatonjedi]

People complain but the content of WoW, FF14, Eso, etc ... is incomparable to SWTOR.

And the fanbase is uncomparable too.

 

Idealism of the fans?

 

Bioware and EA themselves sold the dream with their articles and commercials before the release of the game.

Selling the dream doesnt mean anything when players are going to place their own value on the game based on their own perception of how their version of star wars should be.

 

If a lot of people are gone it's also because this game was clearly far from over when it was released.

If SWTOR had come out with more than class story, players would have stayed and could have done the other activities. The devs clearly underestimated the speed and difficulty that the other activities would have had. Most activities were done in 1-2 days after the release and the rest of the time had to do what? Add to that the stuff of operations and flashpoints that were worth nothing compared to the stuff of leveling, no wonder everyone gets stuck if when you encourage a player to do an activity, there is no carrot at the end.

My point is you cant put all the blame on BW/EA for the reception because they were entering a lions den to start.

 

That said, in my personal opinion, as a hardcore MMO player prior to, and at the beginning of swtor, the content was more than enough to hold the attention of the average MMO fan, and was no different than the level of competiton at that time either. We can debate opinions all we want, but that wont really ever get resolved. Then, and even now with the balance changes and focus on casual content, its clear to see that casual gameplay has been, and atill is their priority focus. Its not a great game for players whose intention is to blitz through content as fast as possible, and you can see that with the frustration created by Command Rank - all that rushing for a disappointing RNG, but for casual players, it fits the mold very effectively.