If SWTOR is losing players, how can Bioware turn things around?

[IoNonSoEVero]

IMHO the two things that would keep players and get them to return:

 

1. More endgame content (not ops, but everything). When there's nothing left to do in the game that someone wants to do (ie, more stories, more flashpoints, more PvP maps, whatever), one eventually gets bored and leaves. New content at a regular rate prevents this.

 

2. Fixing bugs in the vanilla content. I have an Imperial Agent story I'm trying to get through. There have been FOUR bugs that have stopped the story cold and have required tickets to support. Four. IN ACT ONE. CS has told me these are known bugs in IA. If that were my first character, I'd have given up and walked away.

 

Sure, WoW may be increasing the difficulty of leveling content. I don't think that is a solid bellwether, however, that indicates that that is the standard for all players.

 

I think the opposite is true, that players want an easy casual leveling process, and desire challenging content at end game. I also do not believe that players have left the game because leveling is too easy...and I personally find that a silly contention at best.

 

IMO it is just another way to try and spin a desire to return to the game of old, and IMO that game is gone.

 

However, I am all for some kind of setting that would cap a player much sooner in level sync areas, say 2 levels sooner as a "hard mode". I think that would achieve the challenge folks desire.

 

I feel that wanting the hard mode as standard for ALL players is akin to trying to force a persons desired playstyle on others for.....reasons. IMO this failed at the games launch and would fail now.

 

Give players the option to make the content harder...but keep the difficulty level as it is. It would be folly to even CONSIDER changing it at this point.

 

I agree with this. People who are very skilled at the game and find it easy also forget sometimes that not everyone is at the same level they are. Not everyone playing SWTOR has experience with other MMORPGs or other games of this nature. What is easy for one person is hard for other people.

 

If one goes to the starter planets in particular, one will see players dying left and right. Clearly, the content is challenging enough for that to happen. But if it's *too* challenging, or it ceases to be fun, players will walk away.

 

Even with endgame content, that's true. With the Copero flashpoint, there were many veteran players pointing out that the content just wasn't fun because of the health level of the bosses and mobs.

 

Also, many people are here primarily for story, not for op-level gaming.

 

Should there be a way for someone to set the default difficulty level higher if they want, the same way one can choose between three levels for KOTFE/KOTET and flashpoints? Sure. Should the easiest mode be taken away? Absolutely not. Saying it should be removed or made harder IS forcing one play style on everyone and will do nothing to retain players.

Edited January 7, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[DWho]

Well that's just yours subjective view of the things. I can tell you for a fact that for some players its for sure a turnoff from any online MMO type of the game when they can get an impression that combat in it is to easy and how they can get through almost everything without the need of the grouping at all.

 

That may be so but if there has been one constant in this game it has been the drum beat for faster and easier leveling. It started right from the beginning and is still going on now and it is not restricted to any one player type. It may be because this game always was an RPG first and an MMO second. That's not a bad thing, but it is different from most other "MMOs"

[Isnogut]

This is naturally hypothetical....not trying to spread gloom and doom here. The reality, however, is the game likely has less players than it had a year ago...or two years ago.

 

If that is actually the case, we could go on and on about what reasons we think those players left, but I think if any question should be asked it should be "can we get the players back?" and How?

 

That is what I would like to discuss here. Assuming the hypothetical is true, what could Bioware do, with the minimum possible effort and investment (time and resource) to return the game to higher player numbers?

 

I have some suggestions naturally. I would like to hear others opinions as well.

 

1) Offer former players 30 days of free play time and a bonus of 500 coins...and an additional bonus of 500 coins if you sub at the end.

 

Not much to explain here....send out an email, put out a public statement to all of the online video game sites. Get the word out...30 days and 500 coins.

 

2) Make the Amazon special.....2400 coins, 90 days, 40 bucks something you can use every 90 days.

 

IMO this is a huge draw item, as it offers a really good deal, one of the best IMO that is offered for sub options. This pack is the very reason I am subbed at the moment, and would likely remain so if they allowed it to be used every 90 days (currently it is 180 days).

 

3) Make a pass on ALL of the expansion content from SoR up through KotFE/ET/FA and make sure all of it can be done as a group, and remove the removal of companions at the beginning of KotFE.

 

Instead, players would be given the option of removal, or they could choose to keep their companions (but would still lose them story wise). I think this is one of the barriers (the lack of group play is another) that keeps folks from participating in the new content.

 

And, the most important change IMO.....

 

4) All high end progression content, like ranked PVP and Operations (hard mode) will now have a guaranteed gear drop...either some kind of token to redeem for a gear piece, or an unassembled item that grants a single piece.

 

I have other suggestions, but I think these changes would be the easiest to implement in the short term, and have the most appeal overall.

 

I would like to add more later, but I will start here.

 

Anyone else have any suggestions?

I totally disagree with your sugesstions. No "Bonus" ever had a massive inpact for MMO subscribers to prolongue their accounts.

 

First This:

By freeing themselves from the iron-clad grip of EA's greed and getting all of their original staff back who left after EA bought out their parent company, ....

Than add massively content, like WOW. This is the real reason why WOW is still kicking, and other MMO's don't. The MMO hype is gone, agreed, but there are still more than enough people wanting to play those games. SWTOR has something entirely unique compared to other MMO's, the class storymode. This was the best, unique and most outstanding feature SWTOR ever had. With Makeb this was done. Yes, we did got storymode light with the Fallen Empire stuff, but frankly this does only fit with some force classes. BioWare should pump money into class story driven elements. By that it is using that momentum of any subsscriber, to want to play "that class story" and as a side effect, the player will still subscribe, and will still take part in social missions.

Ergo, the game will lure more than enough people to play it and who are willing to pay subs and buy stuff (not lootboxes!)

As for PVP content: THis season stuff is ok, but more PVP areas would be more diversity.

[olagatonjedi]

I'm not one to intrude on others conversations, but it is pretty much common knowledge about the limitations of the game engine and how it did impact not only the games performance, but the multiplayer aspects of the game as well in a not so flattering way. Now having said that it's not so much the game engines fault since it was an alpha build of an unproven engine . It was more the fault of Bioware's and what they were able to do with it.

Every engine has limitations in some aspect. So swtor is no different in that regard, and anyone can decide to focus on what it cant do over what it has allowed.

 

Of course there is no way for us to know how much resources which include man power and money are being put back into the game ,but I think it's safe to say that many have become overly suspicious of the lack of content that is being produced for the game to date. And that 2017 as being the best example of a lack of content that was develop for the game.

As far as I know, and correct me if Im wrong as I have never played WoW, but WoW has put out approximately 3 raids per year, on average since it began. SWTOR is still averaging approximately 2.3 raids per year. I havent looked at flashpoint numbers, but im sure its not far off either. Considering SWztOR wasnt focusing on anything except bringing story-based content, which still includes starter chapters that are unmatched with regards to stories, I would say that they have done what they set out to do and have still been competitive with regards to content released.

 

Could it benefit from more content? Absolutely, but what company woukdnt like to release new stuff at a much faster pace. At this point, swtor is keeping up with the standard even if the demand is higher than the supply, but honestly every game has people complaining about, amd requesting more, content within days/weeks/months of a content release regardless of how grand or miniscule the most recent release was. No company can match the frequency their playerbase asks for, from the top company to the bottom one.

Edited January 7, 2018 by olagatonjedi

[Jdast]

 

As far as I know, and correct me if Im wrong as I have never played WoW, but WoW has put out approximately 3 raids per year, on average since it began. SWTOR is still averaging approximately 2.3 raids per year. I havent looked at flashpoint numbers, but im sure its not far off either. Considering SWztOR wasnt focusing on anything except bringing story-based content, which still includes starter chapters that are unmatched with regards to stories, I would say that they have done what they set out to do and have still been competitive with regards to content released.

 

While I'm taking a break from WoW until new content is released, there is no question that WoW pushes out content faster. There are currently 96 dungeons (flashpoints) and 39-40 raids. The last number can be misleading and I think you are conflating raid with raid bosses. So, for example, in the 39-40 raids number I presented one of those raids could have 10 or so bosses like Karazhan or Ulduar, or in some cases can be just one boss like Onyxia's Lair.

 

I'm cutting Keith slack while he rights the ship (or tries to) and understand given the development cycle and the cancelling of the last 9 or so chapters of the Eternal Empire story arc that it takes time. But the release of new content is paltry compared to WoW, even adjusting for the fact that WoW has been out longer.

 

Regardless, I'll do my final chime in here in this thread and simply say -- you can put all the whistles and bells you want on promotions, gear acquisition, etc. -- at the end of the day if there isn't interesting content to play, people will leave and / or take a break. My futile wish is that when people do take breaks (as I have in this game and others as noted above) they spare us the Trinity Death Speech Tolstoy novel goodbye. Just politely wave goodbye and say you'll be back if there is a new content release and you think it suits your tastes -- because you are Star Wars junkies and you know you will, in fact, be back.

 

Dasty

Edited January 7, 2018 by Jdast

[olagatonjedi]

While I'm taking a break from WoW until new content is released, there is no question that WoW pushes out content faster. There are currently 96 dungeons (flashpoints) and 39-40 raids. The last number can be misleading and I think you are conflating raid with raid bosses. So, for example, in the 39-40 raids number I presented one of those raids could have 10 or so bosses like Karazhan or Ulduar, or in some cases can be just one boss like Onyxia's Lair.

After preliminary research, I did notice that. WoW also benefited with funding from an era that didnt have much competition in the days where the only MMOs out were essentially UO, EQ, and WoW. By the time SWTOR launched, the MMO market was saturated significantly that the money being spent would never be significantly dominated by one company.

 

Furthermore, WoW has released 6 expansions in 13 years, approx one every 2 years. Swtor has had 5 expansions in 6 years. Again, they arent the same game, amd they have different focuses, so im just comparing on a macro-level.

[supertimtaf]

Every engine has limitations in some aspect. So swtor is no different in that regard, and anyone can decide to focus on what it cant do over what it has allowed.

 

 

As far as I know, and correct me if Im wrong as I have never played WoW, but WoW has put out approximately 3 raids per year, on average since it began. SWTOR is still averaging approximately 2.3 raids per year. I havent looked at flashpoint numbers, but im sure its not far off either. Considering SWztOR wasnt focusing on anything except bringing story-based content, which still includes starter chapters that are unmatched with regards to stories, I would say that they have done what they set out to do and have still been competitive with regards to content released.

 

Well, the first one is more a logical question, and I would like you to answer in all honesty, with your opinion, not a biased response like "I'm not into game developement, I don't know about this".

When making a game such as swtor, a game who has received millions for his development, and who was advertised as the "WoW-killer", also advertised like a better SWG... What would make the most sense as a dev in terms of Graphical Engine choice ? You either have some really good ones available at your disposal (Guild Wars 2 and Final Fantasy 14 both have amazing graphics compared to swtor, and both initially got released almost at the same time), or you have an alpha version of an unknown engine, who wasn't recommended for use until its beta release. Seriously, does it make sense to choose the second one ? As a developper of what is advertised as THE star wars mmo ? Imo it doesn't, and it shows how terrible the building of this game has been since the beginning.

 

 

As for the second, this is just me eh, but do not mix up "Raid" and "Raid bosses".

Tyth is a raid boss. Valley of the Machines Gods is a raid.

WoW release several raids per year, entirely fleshed out.

Swtor released this year 3 (or, like you said it, 2 and half) raid bosses for a single raid, while being late of three others, who should have been released at the end of last year.

So I wouldn't say that it is "keeping up the pace"... But that's just me

 

My futile wish is that when people do take breaks (as I have in this game and others as noted above) they spare us the Trinity Death Speech Tolstoy novel goodbye. Just politely wave goodbye and say you'll be back if there is a new content release and you think it suits your tastes -- because you are Star Wars junkies and you know you will, in fact, be back.

 

Dasty

 

Yay, that's why I like your post Dasty. Couldn't agree more with what you said

[Lunablade]

As far as I know, and correct me if Im wrong as I have never played WoW, but WoW has put out approximately 3 raids per year, on average since it began. SWTOR is still averaging approximately 2.3 raids per year. I havent looked at flashpoint numbers, but im sure its not far off either. Considering SWztOR wasnt focusing on anything except bringing story-based content, which still includes starter chapters that are unmatched with regards to stories, I would say that they have done what they set out to do and have still been competitive with regards to content released.

 

When it comes to MMOS WoW is still behemoth now considering how much content is getting released for it and how large dev team is working on that game. Last WoW expansion- Legion is now a year and 4 months old and in that time the game got 5 different raids with 40 bosses released in various difficulties to cater from the average casuals to most hardcore raiders.

 

Besides that it got 13 dungeons and this expansion introduced mythic difficulty of dungeons as a sort of challenging small group content which can scale in a difficulty all the way to +20 but most people play them atm to +15 max , which each week get on rotation some specific mechanics about which people need to take care about if they want to finish them properly. For finishing higher difficulties of them players are rewarded with gear pieces which are equal to the ones obtained from highest difficulty of raids or even higher - http://www.wowhead.com/mythic-keystones-and-dungeons-guide .

Edited January 7, 2018 by Lunablade

[DarthEnrique]

Start putting money back into making mutiple stories, since some of us did not kill off a lot of the companions in KOTFE and KOTET, we really need different branches of stories so it’s like our story choices mattered instead of the companions that can be killed off ending up cardboard cut outs we only get mail from.

[CrazyCT]

Start putting money back into making mutiple stories, since some of us did not kill off a lot of the companions in KOTFE and KOTET, we really need different branches of stories so it’s like our story choices mattered instead of the companions that can be killed off ending up cardboard cut outs we only get mail from.

 

It's taken them over a year to get through the current single story - if you want to either wait 8 years for your favourite class to get their own story, or get 1/8th of a story every year, then that's great for you, but some players are probably unwilling to wait that long.

[DWho]

Re-using assets already in the game could help speed things up. Reshuffling existing content also might change things up a bit without requiring a huge amount of labor. There are a lot of options with what already exists. The problem is players' unwillingness to accept the re-use of content (see the new warzone complaints for example).

[olagatonjedi]

Well, the first one is more a logical question, and I would like you to answer in all honesty, with your opinion, not a biased response like "I'm not into game developement, I don't know about this".

When making a game such as swtor, a game who has received millions for his development, and who was advertised as the "WoW-killer", also advertised like a better SWG... What would make the most sense as a dev in terms of Graphical Engine choice ? You either have some really good ones available at your disposal (Guild Wars 2 and Final Fantasy 14 both have amazing graphics compared to swtor, and both initially got released almost at the same time), or you have an alpha version of an unknown engine, who wasn't recommended for use until its beta release. Seriously, does it make sense to choose the second one ? As a developper of what is advertised as THE star wars mmo ? Imo it doesn't, and it shows how terrible the building of this game has been since the beginning.

Let me start by saying "i'm not into game development, and I don't know much about this." lol. But seriously, my personal belief is that when swtor was being developed, two big conversations took place (among many others). The first conversation was about funding, and I have read a few articles that state that SWTOR spent so much money on Voice-Over acting, as the story-telling was supposed to be the separating factor between SWTOR and all the other MMORPG's, that they chose to spend less on the engine to cut costs to make up for the overspending done on VO costs. This is definitely believable, from a business standpoint.

 

Secondly, I believe the dev/management team asked themselves what type of gamers they wanted to target from a hardware standpoint. And I believe this was a huge business decision. If you look at the minimum specs of SWTOR vs some of the other competing MMORPG's that were released within 1 year of SWTOR (WoW cataclysm, DC Universe Online, Rift, Tera), they all required more minimum/recommended specs in all areas - processor, ram, graphics card. Minimum spec requirements are a valuable, tangible consideration when people decide what game they are going to play (or if they can play in the first place). From personal experience, I've ranged from casual to hardcore gamer, and would never have gone out to buy a new computer (or upgrade) beyond on my financial ability just to play a game that I don't even know if I'm going to enjoy or not. I believe they took this into account. BW/EA were trying to target EVERYONE with their revolutionary storytelling game that included the IP of an extremely large fanbase. I don't find any fault with them trying to give EVERYONE with a reasonably new (within 2-3 years) computer a chance to subscribe and fall in love with it.

 

Is the engine outdated now? Absolutely, but so are many other games too. If they had to funding, would they update it? I believe so. Can I fault them for their decision based on the two reasons I gave above? Absolutely not. Decisions are generally made by taking two or more things into account, and I'm sure this decision was no different. They chose something subpar (the engine) to allow spending in other areas (VO) and to satisfy the majority of their target population (everyone).

 

As for the second, this is just me eh, but do not mix up "Raid" and "Raid bosses".

Tyth is a raid boss. Valley of the Machines Gods is a raid.

WoW release several raids per year, entirely fleshed out.

Swtor released this year 3 (or, like you said it, 2 and half) raid bosses for a single raid, while being late of three others, who should have been released at the end of last year.

So I wouldn't say that it is "keeping up the pace"... But that's just me

I agree, but I feel it must be emphasized that SWTOR did not focus on being an OPS-heavy or PVP-heavy MMORPG. Their focus was story, with those other elements added in as well. So personally, I don't believe they need to "keep up" with the pace/rate of content that other MMO's do because that was not their focus, and still isn't, afaik. But again, they are still remaining relatively close in overall type of content released on a macro level (raid vs raid, etc.)

Edited January 7, 2018 by olagatonjedi

[olagatonjedi]

When it comes to MMOS WoW is still behemoth now considering how much content is getting released for it and how large dev team is working on that game. Last WoW expansion- Legion is now a year and 4 months old and in that time the game got 5 different raids with 40 bosses released in various difficulties to cater from the average casuals to most hardcore raiders.

Regardless of how many raids were released with a specific expansion, they total 39 or 40 raids. During 13 years, that's an average of about 3. If 5 were released in 1 expansion, that means there were other expansions with less raids included, or years when no raids were released. You can look at it however you want, but the overall macro stats are comparable, though admittedly not equal (nor should they be expected to be).

 

Besides that it got 13 dungeons and this expansion introduced mythic difficulty of dungeons as a sort of challenging small group content which can scale in a difficulty all the way to +20 but most people play them atm to +15 max , which each week get on rotation some specific mechanics about which people need to take care about if they want to finish them properly. For finishing higher difficulties of them players are rewarded with gear pieces which are equal to the ones obtained from highest difficulty of raids or even higher - http://www.wowhead.com/mythic-keystones-and-dungeons-guide .

The CXP system with the Story/Vet/Master mode content allows similar access to the elite level gear through flashpoints and raids alike. This isn't even a discussion that needs to be compared. Both gearing systems have their strengths and both have their weaknesses.

[olagatonjedi]

It's taken them over a year to get through the current single story - if you want to either wait 8 years for your favourite class to get their own story, or get 1/8th of a story every year, then that's great for you, but some players are probably unwilling to wait that long.

Some people like getting large amounts of new content once every couple years. Some people like getting smaller, more frequent new content during the same 2 years. Bioware/EA appear to be doing the latter. They will never please everyone, so opinions on topics like this are pointless unless the point is to just express your personal opinion and not criticize the business model.

Edited January 7, 2018 by olagatonjedi

[Jdast]

Some people like getting large amounts of new content once every couple years. Some people like getting smaller, more frequent new content during the same 2 years. Bioware/EA appear to be doing the latter. They will never please everyone, so opinions on topics like this are pointless unless the point is to just express your personal opinion and not criticize the business model.

 

Olag,

 

You admit openly that you have no knowledge of World of Warcraft. You have already conflated raid bosses with raids. You have already demonstrated that you have no idea what an expansion in SWTOR vs. WoW is. Forgive me for being blunt -- you are talking out an orifice (you can choose which one). The idea that you would compare Rise of the Hutt Cartel to an expansion in WoW is flat out laughable.

 

Your statement that "getting smaller, more frequent content" in any way is applicable to the debate at hand demonstrates you know nothing about what you are talking about. You are trolling and interested only in forum PvP, which I cautioned others against and will now take my own advice.

 

Protip: Don't compare games when you haven't (by your own admission) played one.

 

You have become a parody of yourself. I can't speak for others, but -- I no longer take you seriously.

 

Dasty

Edited January 7, 2018 by Jdast

[olagatonjedi]

Olag,

 

You admit openly that you have no knowledge of World of Warcraft. You have already conflated raid bosses with raids. You have already demonstrated that you have no idea what an expansion in SWTOR vs. WoW is. Forgive me for being blunt -- you are talking out an orifice (you can choose which one). The idea that you would compare Rise of the Hutt Cartel to an expansion in WoW is flat out laughable.

 

Your statement that "getting smaller, more frequent content" in any way is applicable to the debate at hand demonstrates you know nothing about what you are talking about. You are trolling and interested only in forum PvP, which I cautioned others against and will now take my own advice.

 

Protip: Don't compare games when you haven't (by your own admission) played one.

 

You have become a parody of yourself. I can't speak for others, but -- I no longer take you seriously.

 

Dasty

They are different games with different focuses, so honestly they shouldnt even be compared in the first place. But again, if you wish to compare them, the amount of content per expansion may differ slightly or significantly, but the number of expansions is similar.

 

And I dont believe anyone here has put a definition on what an official expansion is. Do you?

[Eshvara]

I think even all expansions combined of swtor, doesn't equal a single one of WoW's. 🤔 Or maybe just about one.

[olagatonjedi]

Olag,

 

You admit openly that you have no knowledge of World of Warcraft. You have already conflated raid bosses with raids. You have already demonstrated that you have no idea what an expansion in SWTOR vs. WoW is. Forgive me for being blunt -- you are talking out an orifice (you can choose which one). The idea that you would compare Rise of the Hutt Cartel to an expansion in WoW is flat out laughable.

 

Your statement that "getting smaller, more frequent content" in any way is applicable to the debate at hand demonstrates you know nothing about what you are talking about. You are trolling and interested only in forum PvP, which I cautioned others against and will now take my own advice.

 

Protip: Don't compare games when you haven't (by your own admission) played one.

 

You have become a parody of yourself. I can't speak for others, but -- I no longer take you seriously.

 

Dasty

Someone who has never played baseball can still have sophisticated discussions about it, even getting into the intricacies of it. There is a thing called education that certainly makes it possible.

 

That last post was beneath your intelligence level, it was very surprising to see, tbh.

[olagatonjedi]

I think even all expansions combined of swtor, doesn't equal a single one of WoW's. 🤔 Or maybe just about one.

And many people may feel the opposite.

[DarthEnrique]

It's taken them over a year to get through the current single story - if you want to either wait 8 years for your favourite class to get their own story, or get 1/8th of a story every year, then that's great for you, but some players are probably unwilling to wait that long.

 

It’s not about 8 class stories, they could make multiple different versions of the same single story to reflect on the choices we made, eg. If Vaylin killed Torian and not Vette, we get Vette included or vise versa depending on who got killed instead of them being a cardboard cut out that only sends you mail.

[jojobanutz]

On the subject of Difficulty / Leveling Speed, I've seen multiple new players in Fleet chat asking whether SWTOR ever gets challenging. Basically they were becoming bored because of the ease with which they were progressing.

 

The crazy thing is, the systems to enable players to adjust thier own game difficulty ALREADY exist in the game. Legacy perks that enable XP gain bonuses, the White Acute Module, Cartel XP bonus items. All these use already developed systems and demonstrate that if only Bio actually cared to do it, they could easily supply us with the means to reduce our XP gain to taste, thus increasing the level of challenge we would experience in our battles. It would require only minimal effort on thier part.

 

LOTRO sells an item in thier game store that enables players to halt XP gain entirely, and I believe that WoW may also have added such an item. There is obvious demand for such items/abilities.

 

No button or difficulty slider needed, no new system development.

 

It blows my mind that Bio appear to want to rush everyone through the game at maximum speed, regardles of how players themselves may prefer to progress. The rush to end game is not to everyones taste. Give people the option to play as they prefer and they'll stick around longer.

 

[olagatonjedi]

On the subject of Difficulty / Leveling Speed, I've seen multiple new players in Fleet chat asking whether SWTOR ever gets challenging. Basically they were becoming bored because of the ease with which they were progressing.

 

The crazy thing is, the systems to enable players to adjust thier own game difficulty ALREADY exist in the game. Legacy perks that enable XP gain bonuses, the White Acute Module, Cartel XP bonus items. All these use already developed systems and demonstrate that if only Bio actually cared to do it, they could easily supply us with the means to reduce our XP gain to taste, thus increasing the level of challenge we would experience in our battles. It would require only minimal effort on thier part.

 

LOTRO sells an item in thier game store that enables players to halt XP gain entirely, and I believe that WoW may also have added such an item. There is obvious demand for such items/abilities.

 

No button or difficulty slider needed, no new system development.

 

It blows my mind that Bio appear to want to rush everyone through the game at maximum speed, regardles of how players themselves may prefer to progress. The rush to end game is not to everyones taste. Give people the option to play as they prefer and they'll stick around longer.

 

How high on the priority system is this requested change? Resources spent on one thing takes away from another.

[Eshvara]

And many people may feel the opposite.

 

How? All content compared, WoW has more, it's a fact. SWTOR has more story, but not things to do outside of that. Anyone denying that is just being willfully ignorant.

I enjoy swtor, a lot and I don't really care if it has less content, I wouldn't trade this game for anything, I rather multitask!. But I'm not blind.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Eshvara

[olagatonjedi]

How? All content compared, WoW has more, it's a fact. SWTOR has more story, but not things to do outside of that. Anyone denying that is just being willfully ignorant.

I enjoy swtor, a lot and I don't really care if it has less content, I wouldn't trade this game for anything, I rather multitask!. But I'm not blind.

Your initial statement didnt clarify specifically what was being compared as not being equal. In terms of value to a player, more story could be more valuable than all of what wow has to offer. Etc.

[Eshvara]

Your initial statement didnt clarify specifically what was being compared as not being equal. In terms of value to a player, more story could be more valuable than all of what wow has to offer. Etc.

 

I understand, there are many swtor players that enjoy story and story alone, a game like WoW does not appeal to them in any way, which is fine. But WoW in its entirety has more things to offer. they have better story today than they ever did, more raids, more dungeons, pet battles, more warzones, frequent enough expansions, class balance changed constantly, more pets and more mounts, much more variation in armor sets, scenarios, more difficulties in instances, easier grouping system and the list goes on. SWTOR could have been a good competitor, but everything just kinda plummeted.

WoW and SWTOR are the only mmo's I'll ever play, the rest just doesn't appeal to me. in swtor I enjoy the story and my companions, in WoW I enjoy the PvE content, whereas in swtor I don't really. playing both balances things out for me.