If SWTOR is losing players, how can Bioware turn things around?

[olagatonjedi]

Yesterday I had a conversation with a friend about SWTOR, that was a guy which played the game with me when it launched and which loved it. I found out that he started playing WoW for which he said to me in the past how he would never play it and how he did quit SWTOR.

 

When I asked him for the reason why he left he told me that it was the speed in which Bioware is releasing raiding content and how all Bioware does is reuse old raiding content which many players already did plenty of times which got stale for them and how it needs several months to release even few new bosses while on other hand Blizzard is practically throwing the new content at players every few months when it does release big full fleshed raids with several bosses ( 8-9 ) .

 

Until the Bioware adapts to the market and to the competition with SWTOR and changes the way how is supporting MMO PvE players and guilds with new content it cant expect to regain old customers back and to keep current ones for long time. And I can tell you from MMOS I have played in past that raiding community in games like WoW is pretty big, its true that in that game only minority raids hardest content possible but majority of the players in the game do raid at some appropriate difficulty for their skill level.

I disagree. You are generalizing way too much.

[Lunablade]

I disagree. You are generalizing way too much.

 

You can disagree all you want but I and many others in this thread have already spoken about the lack of the content in this game at endgame and about the reasons why we don't sub to the game regularly and why the people we know left the game. Anyway BW can do something about the things about which we spoke up or not act at all, and it can even get the knowledge what to do to improve the game by surveying the market to. A good start for that would be if it would simply send the survey to all current and former subscribers in which they would be able to express their opinions about the game and the areas which require improvements.

Edited January 30, 2018 by Lunablade

[olagatonjedi]

You can disagree all you want but I and many others in this thread have already spoken about the lack of the content in this game at endgame and about the reasons why we don't sub to the game regularly and why the people we know left the game . Anyway BW can do something about the things about which spoke up or not act at all, and it can even get the knowledge what to do to improve the game by surveying the market to. A good start for that would be if it would simply send the survey to all current and former subscribers in which they would be able to express their opinions about the game and the areas which require improvements.

And many people have remained subbed or continue to play f2p as they choose, and have expressed satisfaction that the current amount of content is sufficient for their enjoyment, and continue to encourage more content as its available without falling victim to the doom and gloom mantra presented by others.

 

So who is right and who is wrong?

[DarthSpuds]

And many people have remained subbed or continue to play f2p as they choose, and have expressed satisfaction that the current amount of content is sufficient for their enjoyment,

 

Name even 20 people who have said the current amount of content is sufficient.

 

Go on I dare you!

 

Heck name 10!

 

All The Best

[kodrac]

Bioware has been actively trying to ruin the game. That's their plan. They don't want to do this anymore and instead of quitting and letting someone else take over they decide the drag the game down so they can be reassigned to other projects.

 

Do you realize how stupid that sounds? Let's sabotage our livelihood! Brilliant! Then, after I lose my job, I can finally move back in with my parents. It's every man's dream!

Edited January 30, 2018 by kodrac

[TUXs]

Name even 20 people who have said the current amount of content is sufficient.

 

Go on I dare you!

 

Heck name 10!

 

All The Best

He couldn't...

[kodrac]

He couldn't...

 

He's got stats that no one else can see. Remember?

[TUXs]

He's got stats that no one else can see. Remember?

Curses...I forgot about his invisible and imaginary stats...

[ExarSun]

You can disagree all you want but I and many others in this thread have already spoken about the lack of the content in this game at endgame and about the reasons why we don't sub to the game regularly and why the people we know left the game. Anyway BW can do something about the things about which we spoke up or not act at all, and it can even get the knowledge what to do to improve the game by surveying the market to. A good start for that would be if it would simply send the survey to all current and former subscribers in which they would be able to express their opinions about the game and the areas which require improvements.

 

Wasting your time you are... No point in arguing with Ea Fanboys, white knights, stating this game releases more content/or is on par with WoW.

Edited January 30, 2018 by ExarSun

[Ardrossan]

Yes Bioware need to stop treating F2P as a stain on the games existence and embrace it, come up with a model that's fair rather than locking entire endgame behind a paywall.

 

Other F2P games do this via progression rates i.e. not getting loot or levels as fast as subscribers and with the command system they could easily implement a system like this where F2P get much lower amounts of CXP than a sub (say 20%) as well as restrictions on legendary token drops from bosses. That would make a massive benefit to still sub while allowing F2P players to populate endgame.

 

That's all they really need to do to keep this game relevant, the sub only model is a bit too much of a sting to those who feel this game died years ago... wasn't that why F2P was introduced in the first place?

 

Tomorrow I'll be going back to F2P [or preferred, since calling it F2P as if it has the same restrictions is kinda dumb] and while I do have a lvl 70 char, I don't care about GC. It's nice, sure. But it's not essential, and I'd seriously wonder how many prefs [let alone F2Ps who are mostly stuck at 50] would make use of this. What I think you're actually suggesting is the ol' "I wanna unsub, how do I make being a pref more tolerable for my own play style than it currently is," and not "yes, this will really help the game or bring in the numbers."

 

You may be fooling the guys who've never unsubbed, as they are generally pretty ignorant about the pref experience, but you're not fooling anyone who's played as a pref, and you certainly wouldn't fool BW with these antics.

 

Note - I picked this post out almost at random, but there's plenty of similar and newer posts saying the same thing. I don't think OP is writing in the same vein, but these sort of threads always attract guys who like to pretend they're all about giving prefs and F2P a fair shake but are only trying to help themselves unsub.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Ardrossan

[AbyKro]

Swtor 2:d

[DarthSpuds]

You may be fooling the guys who've never unsubbed, as they are generally pretty ignorant about the pref experience, but you're not fooling anyone who's played as a pref, and you certainly wouldn't fool BW with these antics.

 

Note - I picked this post out almost at random, but there's plenty of similar and newer posts saying the same thing. I don't think OP is writing in the same vein, but these sort of threads always attract guys who like to pretend they're all about giving prefs and F2P a fair shake but are only trying to help themselves unsub.

 

OK, let me start by saying I've rarely seen a post that says so little be so wrong.

 

For the first three years of this game I never unsubbed once. Since then I've been Unsubbed approx 40% of the time.

 

I can tell you that the difference in "game enjoyment" between Subbed and Pref is significant, and the difference between Subbed and F2P is... ...well... ...you may as well be talking about 2 entirely different games.

 

The problem with both Premium and F2P is that it is quite (alarmingly) obvious you are being punished and severely restricted for not Subbing.

 

ESO on the other hand lets you do just about 95% of total content with no restrictions as F2P and then makes if VERY clear they will reward you for subbing.

 

One model leads to lots of F2P Players subbing as often as they can, the other model sees lots of F2P/Premium players walking away in disgust at how badly they are treated as Customers and Potential Customers.

 

Have a guess which is which.

 

The argument is NOT about Money - it is about Player Retention, and Unretained Players pay no money in at all.

 

All The Best

[olagatonjedi]

Name even 20 people who have said the current amount of content is sufficient.

 

Go on I dare you!

 

Heck name 10!

 

All The Best

Bobby

Jim

Johnny

Dave

Teresa

Terry

Shaniqua

Sam

Sam #2

John

Doug

Luke

Gina

Bobo (as we call him)

Henry

Arnold

Kimmie

Chuck

Dave

David

Daniel

Sally

 

Oops, i overachieved. Thats more than 20.

[olagatonjedi]

OK, let me start by saying I've rarely seen a post that says so little be so wrong.

 

For the first three years of this game I never unsubbed once. Since then I've been Unsubbed approx 40% of the time.

 

I can tell you that the difference in "game enjoyment" between Subbed and Pref is significant, and the difference between Subbed and F2P is... ...well... ...you may as well be talking about 2 entirely different games.

 

The problem with both Premium and F2P is that it is quite (alarmingly) obvious you are being punished and severely restricted for not Subbing.

 

ESO on the other hand lets you do just about 95% of total content with no restrictions as F2P and then makes if VERY clear they will reward you for subbing.

 

One model leads to lots of F2P Players subbing as often as they can, the other model sees lots of F2P/Premium players walking away in disgust at how badly they are treated as Customers and Potential Customers.

 

Have a guess which is which.

 

The argument is NOT about Money - it is about Player Retention, and Unretained Players pay no money in at all.

 

All The Best

Since you seem to be stuck on the whole "punishing" mentality, which I still dont understand when we are talking about free content, why do you feel it benefits BW to punush subs instead of punishing non-subs?

[DarthSpuds]

Bobby

Jim

Johnny

Dave

Teresa

Terry

Shaniqua

Sam

Sam #2

John

Doug

Luke

Gina

Bobo (as we call him)

Henry

Arnold

Kimmie

Chuck

Dave

David

Daniel

Sally

 

Oops, i overachieved. Thats more than 20.

 

Please provide links to those comments.

 

Oh wait, you and I both know you can't because - just like most of your comments based on alleged "secret evidence" - you just made it all up.

 

Yes, I've given you the benefit of the doubt far too long - probably my fault, I tend to see the best in people by default; but from now on will be adopting the DNFTT approach.

 

All The Best

[LordArtemis]

I do not play this game when I am unsubbed, a few of those times being quite long. I generally play STO or Warframe, which tend to be more rewarding of F2P players that spend cash in their stores.

 

The amazon deal got me to resub (90 days, 2400 coins, 40 bucks), which I found was an excellent deal.

 

F2P here needs some adjustment...I have suggested higher access tiers in the past based on cash spending coupled with a subscription reward system for subs only....but in the end it is probably smarter simply to look at some more popular and successful F2P models in the market and adjust the current system accordingly.

 

My main focus with respect to my suggestions is trying to get folks subbed, so I am not focusing on F2P changes. Instead I would rather find a way to bring back prior players and get them to sub. But that does not mean, IMO, that it might be a good idea to consider some F2P changes.

Edited January 31, 2018 by LordArtemis

[olagatonjedi]

Please provide links to those comments.

 

Oh wait, you and I both know you can't because - just like most of your comments based on alleged "secret evidence" - you just made it all up.

 

Yes, I've given you the benefit of the doubt far too long - probably my fault, I tend to see the best in people by default; but from now on will be adopting the DNFTT approach.

 

All The Best

If you know a way to go back in time a few days and capture audio, and know a way to post the audio files on the forum here, please let me know.

[olagatonjedi]

I do not play this game when I am unsubbed, a few of those times being quite long. I generally play STO or Warframe, which tend to be more rewarding of F2P players that spend cash in their stores.

 

The amazon deal got me to resub (90 days, 2400 coins, 40 bucks), which I found was an excellent deal.

 

F2P here needs some adjustment...I have suggested higher access tiers in the past based on cash spending coupled with a subscription reward system for subs only....but in the end it is probably smarter simply to look at some more popular and successful F2P models in the market and adjust the current system accordingly.

 

My main focus with respect to my suggestions is trying to get folks subbed, so I am not focusing on F2P changes. Instead I would rather find a way to bring back prior players and get them to sub. But that does not mean, IMO, that it might be a good idea to consider some F2P changes.

Explain your reasoning for not playing if unsubbed, please.

[ImmoralThang]

Not relying on just amazing cinematic trailers to draw players in. A rewarding endgame with repeatable content. Making non-Force users feel important.

[DanNV]

My main focus with respect to my suggestions is trying to get folks subbed, so I am not focusing on F2P changes. Instead I would rather find a way to bring back prior players and get them to sub. But that does not mean, IMO, that it might be a good idea to consider some F2P changes.

 

The only thing that might save SWTOR is a large infusion of cash. I don't see EA doing that after they merged the servers down and put them in one NA data center and one EU data center. That doesn't look like a company planning to spend money to improve a game they've let languish and actively chased players away from.

 

EA has destroyed the game and chased off the player base. What are the odds they'll suddenly see the light and start investing in SWTOR at a level sufficient to make it even competitive with the other games out there?

[Lunablade]

If you know a way to go back in time a few days and capture audio, and know a way to post the audio files on the forum here, please let me know.

 

Hey I have a story to sell you , I won the lottery and every single person in the lottery management board told me personally and only to me how they owe to me now a hefty sum of money, an entire fortune in fact, and all I need now is to go back to the lottery house based on that to claim my prize ( tho I don't have any records of that but that doesn't rly matter right ? ) !

 

You see what I did there

 

/sarcasm off

 

If we are talking about the current situation with SWTOR at this point I'm pretty sure how : all those server merges, closing of the APAC servers, huge percentage of the number of players which decreased from the time the game was launched, opinions of the majority of the people in this thread alone, a fact how lately almost every single day on the forums pops up a new thread that SWTOR should change the model from PTP to BTP because with how much new content is getting released for the game now for a long time it doesn't justify a subscription, the general lack of news from the devs about the new content being developed for the game which we could preview or test are all indicators how the game is not in a good spot right now and how things need to change to do better. But you dont need to listen to me or anyone else who points out on those issues with the game and you are free to live in your imagined reality if you wish, if that makes the things better for you.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Lunablade

[olagatonjedi]

Hey I have a story to sell you , I won the lottery and every single person in the lottery management board told me personally and only to me how they owe to me now a hefty sum of money, an entire fortune in fact, and all I need now is to go back to the lottery house based on that to claim my prize ( tho I don't have any records of that but that doesn't rly matter ) !

 

You see what I did there

 

/sarcasm off

If you are choosing to make up a story for some reason to compare it to my true life events, then I have no clue why you did it. So no, i dont see what you did there.

 

 

If we are talking about the current situation with SWTOR at this point I'm pretty sure how : all those server merges, closing of the APAC servers, huge percentage of the number of players which decreased from the time the game was launched, opinions of the majority of the people in this thread alone, a fact how lately almost every single day on the forums pops up a new thread that SWTOR should change the model from PTP to BTP because with how much new content is getting released for the game now for a long time it doesn't justify a subscription, the general lack of news from the devs about the new content being developed for the game which we could preview or test are all indicators how the game is not in a good spot right now and how things need to change to do better. But you dont need to listen to me or anyone else who points out on those issues with the game and you are free to live in your imagined reality if you wish, if that makes things better for you.

Most of your arguments relate to 5 years ago and strictly people who post on the forums (usually the same people), which cannot be viewed as the majority of players

 

You have no idea why the things are happening the way they are happening, and you likely never will, so no need for you to act as though you do. Ive said, and will continue to say that all of what you say MAY be correct, but it MAY not be either. You dont know. I dont know. Nobody except the one(s) analyzing the privately kept analytics and those making the decisions knows. So lets leave their job to them. If you want to make suggestions, make them as though the current state of the game is where BW wants it to be, so that we can see feasible improvements, not wishing upon a star for a dramatic change.

[Lunablade]

If you are choosing to make up a story for some reason to compare it to my true life events, then I have no clue why you did it. So no, i dont see what you did there.

 

You know why I did that, because based on what : I read and see people are posting here on the forums, what they are saying in the game and what the people I know told me , and from my experience with the game and your posts in general I have to say that I don't believe how anything that you said here is true and I'm not the only one here with that kind of opinion.

 

Most of your arguments relate to 5 years ago and strictly people who post on the forums (usually the same people), which cannot be viewed as the majority of players

 

Not really....

 

Big server merges happened to the game recently and people lost APAC servers.

 

Everyone who is following the game for a long time now knows how there is a huge lack of the new content at endgame compared to other MMOS ( seriously how Bioware cant even manage to release one new full op in an entire year ) .

 

Most of the people will agree here with me on the forums that there is a total lack of the news of the new content being developed for the game currently and how Bioware doesn't communicate much with the community in general lately.

 

I don't see anything new on the PTR now.

 

Threads how the game should change the model from PTP to BTP pop now !

 

If Bioware wants to do something with the game it surely will start to care more about the reasons why this game lost players and is losing them still, and about the things which might reverse that trend.

 

 

You have no idea why the things are happening the way they are happening, and you likely never will, so no need for you to act as though you do. Ive said, and will continue to say that all of what you say MAY be correct, but it MAY not be either. You dont know. I dont know. Nobody except the one(s) analyzing the privately kept analytics and those making the decisions knows.

 

I never said that I know all the reasons why the game is currently in this position but some of the things I mentioned in this thread are the same ones about which many other players spoke up to, if there are many of us which agree on that than there is something surely in that. I also stated before how Bioware can get the best knowledge what to do from surveying the market and opinions of former and current players of the game about the areas which need to to be improved.

 

So lets leave their job to them. If you want to make suggestions, make them as though the current state of the game is where BW wants it to be, so that we can see feasible improvements, not wishing upon a star for a dramatic change.

 

Again I was speaking about the current state of the game. And I made my suggestions in this thread tho I haven't seen in any of your posts anything constructive here just only that you wish to argue with anyone who points out on any problems this game has and with doing that in my pov you managed to only derail this thread.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Lunablade

[Costello]

Bobby

Jim

Johnny

Dave

Teresa

Terry

Shaniqua

Sam

Sam #2

John

Doug

Luke

Gina

Bobo (as we call him)

Henry

Arnold

Kimmie

Chuck

Dave

David

Daniel

Sally

 

Oops, i overachieved. Thats more than 20.

 

I sadly think its been established that your posts lack any credibility, but do you appreciate how listing a bunch of random names mean even whiteknights who may wish to support you will keep well away from you because you just taken it too far. Since they don't want to be seen supporting utter rubbish.

 

Now for people not happy with the game or the level of content, I can understand posting on the forums as a last ditch (almost certainly misguided) hope someone from the dev team will come in and say yes in February we have a Story Chapter, we have a flashpoint and we have returning companions. Or at the very least that they know the game is in an awful situation, they have dropped the ball horribly 2.5 mins of Companion CutScenes is doing it right.

 

But you who once posted that there was plenty of content because not everyone can play that much seem to have ample time to post random names as if they mean anything. If you are loving it that much and still have tons of content to enjoy go play it. Instead your coming off as someone that's enjoyment seems to be seeing how far you can argue the game is healthy all the while never playing it. It could make someone wonder if your being paid to post but whoever is paying you needs to get their money back cause your not supporting or defending the game your posts are so bad that they come off as panicked and meaningless.

 

If those 20+ people exist and play the game and are friends with you that they have told you there is more than enough content, get them to post on the forum and say how they feel 2.5 minutes of a cutscene for the return of 2 Love interest Companions is more than enough content for a month. That they feel that the return was done right and it really captured how how husband/wife would react after 6 years apart and thinking the other was dead. But if your just going to post random names of people you went to school with do you even realize the lengths your going to in order to defend this game. It really shouldn't be that hard to defend and its hard to tell if your trolling or don't even realize how ******* up your posts are.

[kodrac]

Maybe when people quit replying to his nonsense he'll realize the entire community has him on ignore. He'll always have a reply. He's not a white knight or shill. He's what's called a contrarian. A contrarian is someone who takes an opposing view, especially for the sake of being difficult, contentious or in opposition to the generally held view.