SWTOR sucks, doesn't it?

[cyrusramsey]

There are always people in the game community who whine and complain nonstop about this or that. They don't look at positives they are only into the negatives yet continue to play anyway. All that changes for them is the name of the game. I really don't understand these people and while problems with this or any game must be brought forward, to make a crusade out of destroying games is a mindset I don't get. Then again, I don't have to. All I need to know is ... am I having fun? If the answer is yes then I continue to play. If not I leave. It's not rocket science.

 

I'll bite too:

 

I've been rather critical on the forums, I've had my share of rants here and with friends in the game, and this isn't because I can't see the positives, it is because I see things that I consider positives removed or butchered one by one. There was a game that I fell in love with, and the devs seem intent on changing it into something else. I think I'm allowed to voice my displeasure with the direction they're taking.

 

We're people that are passionate and concerned, we're not out to destroy the game and most of us do not begrudge others the fun they're still having as long as these people don't try to silence us when we voice our concerns.

[LordArtemis]

Yes. I would like to point out to those that have trouble understanding why folks might post negative feedback that this is a forum that exists specifically for that purpose.

 

AND Bioware has stated on more than one occasion that they specifically seek out feedback from many sources, this being one of them, and appreciate candor. They welcome ALL feedback as long as it is productive.

 

The OP, though harsh perhaps, is an example of productive feedback IMO. Quite a few positive posts in this thread qualify as well.

 

There will be folks that do not like what you like, and you will encounter this everywhere in life. It is best to come to terms with that reality and find a way to be ok with it. But one can certainly choose to iceskate uphill if they wish.

Edited November 18, 2017 by LordArtemis

[feylyndiira]

Just because a thread is critical, doesn't mean it's trolling. Stop with the witch hunt.

Umm...he admitted that he was "trolling" (i.e. posting what looked like a negative post in order to draw a response).

Again, it got a positive outcome, so I'm not all that wound up about it as you might think.

 

There we go!

 

The primary intent of the thread was to wake up the community that loves the game.

Contrary to other white knight threads we've been having, the goal was to get specifics, something the devs could really use. Guess by now, many of you started noticing a general consensus on why people play the game.

 

You might have been deceived but for the better.

 

Again, apologies if I offended you guys by any extend,

[Deewe]

Thought some of you might be interested in the following : clicky

 

I really liked the outline of the Criticism article and for those who haven't had a chance to read it, here's the bullets:

• Everyone who dislikes your work is right
  
• The criticism that is useful is that which helps you do it better
  
• Nothing’s perfect
  
• You often have to choose between your ideals and your message
  
• You have to dig to get the gold
  
• Good feedback is detailed
  
• People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous
  
• Someone asked for feedback will always find something wrong
  
• Good work may not have an audience
  
• Any feedback that comes with suggestions for improvement is awesome
  
• If you agree with the criticism, say “thank you.” If you disagree, say “fair enough,” and “thank you"
  
• You are not your work
  

 

It's a great guide for me and the entire SWTOR Team and I'll do my very best to ensure all of us follow the advice offered.

 

[LordArtemis]

Thought some of you might be interested in the following : clicky

 

Fantastic. Right on target.

[GalacticKegger]

Fantastic. Right on target.

Agreed. They are excellent words. We'll find out soon enough if they are actually put into practice. By my account (my actual SWTOR subscription account, not my personal account) they have until the end of January. We shall see.

 

Thanks Deewe.

Edited November 18, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[olagatonjedi]

Agreed. They are excellent words. We'll find out soon enough if they are actually put into practice. By my account (my actual SWTOR subscription account, not my personal account) they have until the end of January. We shall see.

 

Thanks Deewe.

And thats the point many people miss. Never in that admission did Keith guarantee changes would be done to please you, or me, or anyone specific in mind. I believe they take feedback and criticism openly, but sometimes the criticism they receive isnt the view of the majority, and unfortunately too many people believe their criticism is the belief of the masses when they really dont knoe for certain. Yet the majority of the critical posts take that tone as if they know all the details that go into every change (or non-change) in the game.

[kenopaa]

a lot of views of this thread

 

and for me swtor doesn't suck at all!

[LordArtemis]

Well, you can bet it is likely Bioware is aware of whether or not a complaint has merit, at least for the most part. Certainly they are likely more informed than we are lol.

 

All too often folks desire approval from the community when they present their opinions. But the community does not have to approve of a point made....Bioware determines the merit or lack thereof.

 

Armor is a good example. The community seemed to be dead set against allowing republic players to wear imperial outfits, and visa versa...they felt that removing visual identifiers would interfere with PVP. The feedback on the idea was overwhelmingly negative in the community, yet it was implemented. Same with the PVP phase change.

 

I would assume that, despite the strong message from the majority of the community against both suggestions from a small group of members, there were other sources that gave the suggestions merit.

 

This community will often attempt to silence ideas that they find distasteful, and they are successful at times, but folks need to remember that their opinions do not require community approval.

 

If you have a suggestion or criticism, you should offer it IMO.

Edited November 19, 2017 by LordArtemis

[TryRoon]

This game has so many flaws and barely any new content at all. In mostly every single aspect it's worse than any other AAA MMO.

 

So the true question, apart the IP (emphasis): why do you still play it and pay a subscription?

 

Couple of leads:

• It is because of your group/guild mates?
  
• It is out of habit?
  
• Is it because of specific(s) feature(s)?
  

 

If you feel that way then the real question is why are you still playing it? I have been here from before launch. It has it's flaws, But I still love the game and so do a lot of others.

[Pirana]

- SWTOR has good parts BUT mostly bad

 

- i would say SWTOR sucks because of these reasons :

 

• - usless stats : Hit rating , defense rating , absorb rating , power mastery
  
• - confusing stats : defense OR absorb , which one do u need ,? nobody knows ....
  
• confusing stats: Mastery or Power , which one do u need ? nobody knows , one increases " combat effectiveness the OTHER your damage ? what
  
• easier role switching : it is ANNOYING as hell to switch from tank to dps , redo all the Utility Points , redo all the action bars , how can u NOT have a feature that saves at least 2 roles ( after 5 years ) in order to be effective BOTH In dungeons and when u are doing solo things
  
• clunky mechanics: DAMAGE - if u want to maintain DOT's on the target you have to
  - FIRST look at the target's debuffs
  - CHECK it's debuffs ... a target usually has 10 - 20 debuffs active , which are in constant motion
  - FIGURE OUT which debuffs are yours or your teammates
  
• clunky mechanics TANKING - you have to divert your attention to checking thru a constant 10-20 buffs active and figure out where your shield is and if it has expired or not
  

 

Incorrect on multiple levels. If you're this misinformed, check out Dulfy.

[LordArtemis]

I could answer the "why do you continue to play" question, though it is not a simple answer.

 

First and foremost, the IP. It's Star Wars, and currently one of the few Star Wars titles out there (one can still play SWG if they wish).

 

Second, the game DOES provide many features similar to other games, like daily content and some form of crafting, both can be enjoyable.

 

Now, that said, the game is designed in a way that makes it VERY easy for me to walk away from it and avoid spending anything in the market. When you couple the petty and annoying restrictions of the F2P/Preferred system with the limitations of other interesting parts of the game, like GS, strongholds, etc you create a situation where the game becomes repellent UNLESS you are subbed.

 

Other games on the market do not have that kind of effect on me, and I tend to continue to dabble and spend in those games, even as I subscribe to this one from time to time. And they get FAR more of my money than SWTOR does.

 

Now grant it, a few of the games I continue to play are set up entirely as RMT games with no sub, so disclaimer there. But in almost every case those games are MUCH more inviting to free players AND have very desirable items in their stores to purchase. This game lacks both IMO.

[Ylliarus]

I play the game because it is absolutely fantastic! To me everything about it is just simply epic, the setting, the classes, the class story individuality pre-KotFE... really, if you think away KotFE and KotET which were mediocre at best when compared to the rest of the game, then the game is perfect to me. I have fallen in love with it 5 years ago and that loved has not diminished one bit. I didn't need any breaks from the game as some people claim they need or needed, I have been playing this game for 5 years with tiny diversions (Mass Effect trilogy, ESO, Andromeda) but SWTOR was always my main game. I vow to stay here until the very moment the servers are shut down for good which I hope is very far in the future.

 

So no, this game doesn't suck, in my personal opinion. If it would suck I wouldn't play it. Except KotFE and KotET, I love everything about SWTOR!

[GalacticKegger]

I play the game because it is absolutely fantastic! To me everything about it is just simply epic, the setting, the classes, the class story individuality pre-KotFE... really, if you think away KotFE and KotET which were mediocre at best when compared to the rest of the game, then the game is perfect to me. I have fallen in love with it 5 years ago and that loved has not diminished one bit. I didn't need any breaks from the game as some people claim they need or needed, I have been playing this game for 5 years with tiny diversions (Mass Effect trilogy, ESO, Andromeda) but SWTOR was always my main game. I vow to stay here until the very moment the servers are shut down for good which I hope is very far in the future.

 

So no, this game doesn't suck, in my personal opinion. If it would suck I wouldn't play it. Except KotFE and KotET, I love everything about SWTOR!

It was for me and my wife as well ... until they removed the loot tables and replaced them with loot crates, removed our ability to customize our companions for PvE, and butchered & recycled everything but the stories for KotFE's level cap game. Edited November 19, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[olagatonjedi]

It was for me and my wife as well ... until they removed the loot tables and replaced them with loot crates, removed our ability to customize our companions for PvE, and butchered & recycled everything but the stories for KotFE's level cap game.

Except they didnt replace loot table with crates.

[Inframan]

Yeah this game kind of sucks. I just resubbed after quitting in early 2012. The things I like, then and now, are some of the original Flashpoints like Black Talon, Foundry, False Emperor and the 1-50 character storylines. Replaying the game, I see that even the class storylines aren't that good. They have some juicy bits but those are separated by hours of mundane fetch quests.

 

I just did the SW storyline on Corellia, and it's awful. They delay your personal confrontation with Darth Baras with the excuse that Darth Vowrawn, his enemy, needs help on Corellia. This Darth is so incompetent he can't even protect himself from Bounty Hunters. How was he on the Dark Council? The worst part of Corellia, though, is that you spend so much time racing up and down lifeless, empty corridors that you just want to give up on the whole thing.

 

And with the new expansions, they expected me to "save" the Empire by obtaining this super great material Isotope-5. Which I did, and then what? I didn't experience anything suggesting any of that mattered. I was led through some somewhat interesting flashpoints, but those are tedious even on single-player story mode. Then they wanted me to go to some pirate world and do what I can only imagine was a series of mundane tasks involving pirates. I gave up at that point and launched KotFE.

 

KotFE kills your personal storyline for a new-player-friendly romp. The only good thing about this game was the storyline and this expansion freezes you in carbonite and resets that story. I don't think I'm going to complete it.

 

As far as MMO mechanics are concerned, this game at launch was worse than vanilla WoW, but I haven't delved into any of it on resubbing. I quit because I was bored and my guild and server died. I'm not going to experience that again. Maybe after six years of live time it has better mechanics than it did before. I can't really tell.

 

I'm playing the Jedi Knight storyline now, and if you can get into your character, it's pretty cool. I'm level 30 now, Jedi Guardian, Defense spec, wielding a single lightsaber with TWO-HANDS (something Marauders and Sentinels could learn from), and repressing my character's lust for Kira. Good stuff, but I'm still dreading the crawl through Hoth and Corellia that I think is coming.

[GalacticKegger]

Except they didnt replace loot table with crates.

4.0 replaced the loot tables for everything but Operations and planet trash with Alliance crates. 5.0 replaced the remaining Operations loot tables with Command Crates. That is until the player base fought back last December. My apologies for the correction but they did replace loot tables with crates. Edited November 19, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[olagatonjedi]

4.0 replaced the loot tables for everything but Operations and the starter planets with Alliance crates. 5.0 replaced the remaining Operations loot tables with Command Crates. That is until the player base fought back last December. My apologies for the correction but they did replace loot tables with crates.

So you're complaining about something that is no longer in game? Says enough.

[GalacticKegger]

So you're complaining about something that is no longer in game? Says enough.

Says more than someone with a member number in the 14.8+ million range could possibly know about the game. Edited November 19, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[olagatonjedi]

Says more than someone with a member number in the 14.8+ million range could possibly know about the game.

What does member number have to do with common sense? How is it relevant for anything?

Edited November 19, 2017 by olagatonjedi

[GalacticKegger]

What does member number have to do with common sense? How is it relevant for anything?

It's relevance is called historical perspective, which new players (assuming they actually play) try to fake but fail miserably at because they weren't actually there. If this was truly irrelevant then BW would not have caved in and brought back at least some semblance of tier tokens (components) and comms (unassembled components) to the level cap game.

 

Now ... if you are genuienly that adamant about discrediting someone, then for best results might I suggest Bioware's decision makers?

Edited November 19, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[Jdast]

It's relevance is called historical perspective, which new players try to fake but fail miserably at because they weren't actually there. If this was truly irrelevant then BW would not have caved in and brought back at least some semblance of components (tier tokens) and unassembled components (comms).

 

Now ... if you are genuienly that adamant about discrediting someone, then for best results might I suggest Bioware's decision makers?

 

Just because I quit after the Ilum disaster and rejoined last year on a new account, doesn't mean I can't read. It's not exactly like understanding the tier token and unassembled components system is a difficult concept or a system new to MMORPGs.

 

I find Olag to be a bit too pro-BW at times myself, but attacking him for lack of historical perspective (i.e., attacking the messenger) is gratuitous -- particularly when the basic concepts are so simple and, more importantly, no longer applicable by your own admission.

 

Dasty

[GalacticKegger]

Just because I quit after the Ilum disaster and rejoined last year on a new account, doesn't mean I can't read. It's not exactly like understanding the tier token and unassembled components system is a difficult concept or a system new to MMORPGs.

 

I find Olag to be a bit too pro-BW at times myself, but attacking him for lack of historical perspective (i.e., attacking the messenger) is gratuitous

Nothing attacking or gratuitous about it. I merely sidestepped his/her personal attack

So you're complaining about something that is no longer in game? Says enough.

and left them (hopefully) with some food for thought in the process. And surely they aren't just a messenger (or part of a multi-account / multi-boxing forum tag team) and are actually an individual speaking for themselves.

particularly when the basic concepts are so simple and, more importantly, no longer applicable by your own admission.

 

Dasty

Balderdash. Never said it ... never even alluded to it. I have never deviated from my position that the MMORPG systems which were removed from the game are not only entirely applicable, but are (by my own admission as observed by Olag - see above) what I have been requesting be returned to the game since KotFE began the process of removing them. Edited November 19, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[Farstrider]

This game has so many flaws and barely any new content at all. In mostly every single aspect it's worse than any other AAA MMO.

 

So the true question, apart the IP (emphasis): why do you still play it and pay a subscription?

 

Couple of leads:

• It is because of your group/guild mates?
  
• It is out of habit?
  
• Is it because of specific(s) feature(s)?
  

 

That's your opinion, don't come here presenting it as fact, but I'll bite.

[*] Guild - The Lost Praxeum; Jedi RP guild on Darth Malgus.

[*] It is a regular part of my schedule, it's a hobby.

[*] Cosmetics, flashpoints, voice acted content, replayability through opposing sides (Imp vs. Republic)

Edited November 19, 2017 by Farstrider

[LordArtemis]

Foks, you don't need community members to agree with you for your opinions to be valid. They are NOT the folks you need to convince.