The Saddest Part Of The Server Merges

[Draqsko]

You know I was just going to let this lie but I can't because it is so offensive. Do you have any clue what book burning in Nazi Germany was all about? It was about racism and hatred. Comparing that to someone who wants civil discourse to be the rule in general chat is absolutely dispicable.

 

Do you have any clue that book burning has a far longer history than Nazi Germany?

 

I mean, this event triggered a far greater period of book burning throughout the Holy Roman Empire:

 

At the instruction of Reformer Martin Luther, a public burning of books was held in the public square outside Wittenberg's Elster Gate on December 10, 1520. Together with the Papal Bull of Excommunication Exsurge Domine, issued against Luther himself, were burned works which Luther considered as symbols of Catholic orthodoxy - including the Code of Canon Law, the Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Aquinas and the Summa Angelica, Angelo Carletti's work on Scotist theology.

 

And most people thought Martin Luther was sort of a nice guy engaging in civil discourse.

[Tsillah]

The saddest part of the server merges is the great irony that the reason we needed to get server merges is that Bioware tried to address the declining population in the game with the last two expansions. I say irony because it clearly had the opposite effect.

 

I really hope that they can turn things around with the next expansion by bringing out content that people want to play and replay and a much better approacht to rewarding various activities in game.

[davracahan]

I really hope that they can turn things around with the next expansion by bringing out content that people want to play and replay and a much better approach to rewarding various activities in game.

 

Me too. I'd like to see anything that has the word "eternal" in its name just go away and have the story revert to Empire vs Republic and bring back class-specific storylines, or at the very least faction-specific storylines.

Edited November 15, 2017 by davracahan

[Gallandaeus]

Ding ding ding.. You win what this is truly about. To this day I see people saying quit.. Go somewhere else etc. et al.. People you can't continue to think in this manner. We've just experienced what is probably the last merge this game has in it..

 

They don't learn. The snowflakes continue to bemoan a steady population whilst bickering with the white knights and trolls over the game's longevity (or current state.) I've seen it happen enough now to know that it's just going through the motions at this point. But your post is one of the very few in the entirety of this forum that understands what is happening, and why it is happening. But nothing changes. The same people that make the same posts and threads about how they "think" the game should be, or how they "think" the game is doing are the same ones that will scratch their heads when it's gone. At this point I'm just enjoying the ride. Keith can try--nothing against him, honestly--but it takes more than just vision or communication to turn it around.

 

The game had a decent run. Not the best, by far, but it had its high points. I'll just enjoy the merger for now. Might as well, knowing how this usually goes.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Gallandaeus

[cool-dude]

Why is this even an argument? When did thinking people should be less rude, crude, nonsensical, and idiotic become unreasonable? Why is the response to wanting people to grow up and behave better "well people are stupid and rude and spammy and harassing, etc...in other games too, therefore it should be like that in every game and anyone who disagrees should shut up because they're a snowflake and don't play games!" Um what?

 

Because the reality is Bioware will probably not do anything more than what they have already, so I can either be a wimp and let people over the internet hold power over me. or I can just shrug off or ignore what some nobody says to me or in gen chat and move on with my life.

[DWho]

Do you have any clue that book burning has a far longer history than Nazi Germany?

 

I mean, this event triggered a far greater period of book burning throughout the Holy Roman Empire:

 

 

 

And most people thought Martin Luther was sort of a nice guy engaging in civil discourse.

 

I know all about the history of book burning and it has always been about bigotry and hatred. Your comparing anyone to that is beyond reprehensible. Book burning is not civil discourse and neither is what goes on in chat. If you want to compare the two book burning is more comparable to what goes on in chat as both are about intolerance and hatred.

[DWho]

Because the reality is Bioware will probably not do anything more than what they have already, so I can either be a wimp and let people over the internet hold power over me. or I can just shrug off or ignore what some nobody says to me or in gen chat and move on with my life.

 

The whole point of the discussion is to get them to do something. The current process of filters and reporting is a complete failure. Just because something can be ignored does not make it right or even acceptable. Calling people "Snowflakes" and "wimps" doesn't come close to solving the problem.

[DavidAtkinson]

The saddest part of the server merges is the great irony that the reason we needed to get server merges is that Bioware tried to address the declining population in the game with the last two expansions. I say irony because it clearly had the opposite effect.

 

I really hope that they can turn things around with the next expansion by bringing out content that people want to play and replay and a much better approacht to rewarding various activities in game.

 

I think that would require a lot of content.. People leave for various reasons and one major one among them is the fact that they get bored. They get bored of doing the same thing over and over and over again. same ops, same fp-s, same warzones, stories and so on.

 

Game needs a complete overhaul. SWTOR 2 would most likely solve the population problem, but sadly that has very low chances of ever happening.

Edited November 15, 2017 by DavidAtkinson

[Theeko]

The saddest part about the mergers imo is the fact they claim people "earned" there legacies just because they spent 50 cents to copy the main one 2-10x before the merge, now they have basically everything they earned ontop of the copied crap which they only spent a measily 50 cents on.

[DWho]

who will pay someone to monitor chat? Bw isnt willing to, that much is obvious.

 

Well, a couple of things on this

 

1) They are already paying someone to look at EULA complaints

2) It would be more efficient to see and deal with these issues in real time rather than digging through chat logs

3) The action and punishment are so separated in time that the punishment has no deterrent value.

4) The current system for reporting this kind of behavior is extremely convoluted. Unlike credit spammers and harassment, there is no "right click" link (you can right click ignore but not right click report)

[Nefla]

Because the reality is Bioware will probably not do anything more than what they have already, so I can either be a wimp and let people over the internet hold power over me. or I can just shrug off or ignore what some nobody says to me or in gen chat and move on with my life.

 

That’s fine, but why defend bad behavior? Why is wanting people to behave like adults “wimpy”? Does that mean acting like a 12 year old hopped up on poptarts and Mountain Dew is “tough”? I doubt anyone is losing any sleep over this but it’s annoying.

[DWho]

That’s fine, but why defend bad behavior? Why is wanting people to behave like adults “wimpy”? Does that mean acting like a 12 year old hopped up on poptarts and Mountain Dew is “tough”? I doubt anyone is losing any sleep over this but it’s annoying.

 

I don't understand it either. It is very annoying that people keep defending clear violations of the EULA with bogus arguments. It is against the rules and should be punished and it is the right thing to do to want it punished. The "wimps" are the ones who turn their back on the problem and hope it goes away.

[DieAlteHexe]

That’s fine, but why defend bad behavior? Why is wanting people to behave like adults “wimpy”? Does that mean acting like a 12 year old hopped up on poptarts and Mountain Dew is “tough”? I doubt anyone is losing any sleep over this but it’s annoying.

 

Whilst maybe not applicable to everyone who behaves like a rabid weasel on crack, I think for many it is because they CAN be arse-hats without much (if any) consequence as opposed to the way things work in RL...a way to behave like they cannot in RL. So, the potential for having that removed would be a negative for that sort and thus...defending it.

[doohickeyexpress]

So the server have been merged, most people survived it without any major incidents.

 

Also the new servers are big and full of people, the chats of are very busy filled with guild recruiting messages, the warzones pop every 5 minutes and overall the game feels very alive, BUT....

 

How long will it last ?

 

This is the saddest part for me. I really hope we won't see any massive drops in population because it will be very sad to see after all this " happiness" going on.

 

I also really hope that Bioware will try to do it's best at keeping this remaining population for as long as possible by raising the interest again for this game and maybe attracting new players.

 

Why worry about something that hasn't even happened yet, and definitely won't happen soon? Utterly pointless. Enjoy the game!

Edited November 15, 2017 by doohickeyexpress

[DWho]

Not to me. When I think Nazi Germany I think Night of Broken Glass, yellow Star of David and concentration camps, not book burning. There have been far too many organizations, some good, some bad that have participated in book burnings for various reasons. To imply someone's intention without them explicitly or implicitly stating it is ludicrous.

 

And trust me, they do ban people for violating the EULA in chat. It happened to my guildie once for ironically impersonating a gold seller. It was about as apparent a joke advert as you've ever seen, but he got a 3 day ban for it. Perhaps the issue is what you consider violating the EULA and what they consider violating the EULA.

 

Well direct from the code of conduct

 

1) Harass, threaten, embarrass, or do anything to another player that is unwanted. This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated. (See also “Harassment Policy” below.)

 

2) “Trolling,” which we define as posts or threads that knowingly lead to overly strong, negative, and emotional responses for mere shock value, is not allowed on the Service. Accounts created with the sole intent to “troll” will be immediately and permanently suspended. Constant personal attacks are also considered trolling.

 

3) Disrupt the flow of chat with vulgar language, abusiveness, hitting the return key repeatedly or inputting large images so the screen goes by too fast to read, use of excessive shouting [all caps] in an attempt to disturb other users, “spamming” or flooding [posting repetitive text].

 

4) Behavior that is always considered harassment includes derogatory and/or hateful comments that are sexual, racist, religious, or related to gender or creed.

 

Those are violated almost continuously in gen chat and are much more serious that "impersonating a gold spammer". If they were being addressed, we would see a lot less of it.

[IoNonSoEVero]

ETA: DWHO got to this before I did, so I won't have the same info copy/pasted twice in a row.

 

The Rules of Conduct are actually pretty clear about what constitutes a violation or not. They have the right to regulate it as much as they wish, and by downloading the game, creating an account and playing, you're agreeing to play by their rules and standards, not yours. Their house, their rules.

 

Heck, by connecting to the Internet at all you've likely had to agree to follow your ISP's terms of service, which probably includes similar language.

 

http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct

Edited November 15, 2017 by IoNonSoEVero

[Qouivandes]

also, its not wise to discuss actions taken against accounts regardless if it is your account or others. just a friendly suggestion.

[LordRapheus]

Always cracks me up when people are always cracking up.

Captain! We can't take much more of this. We're Cracking up!

[PlagaNerezza]

First... says who? How do YOU know "people" like unmoderated chat? I mean... obviously some people do, or chat wouldn't be like it is... but how can you throw that as a blanket statement? The fact that this is not something that people in this thread are agreeing with tells me that you're wrong on this. "People" don't like unmoderated chat.

 

A huge difference between something like Chat in an MMO and CDs with vulgar lyrics is... if you want music like that, you go out and buy it. Maybe banning it made it more popular (among idiots) but banning in an MMO works differently. If people who are throwing down hate speech and overtly vulgar sexual comments are getting silences and bans, this will not be making this kind of chat more popular. Instead of being eager to explain what they really mean about getting their Padawan polishing their Lightsaber, they'll be more inclined to say "uh... use your imagination, if I get reported again, I'm looking at a Game Ban."

 

 

 

My argument here is Time and Place. If I'm watching Southpark, I know exactly what I'm expecting, and if I'm offended, that's my problem. Star Wars should be PG13, more or less family friendly. If someone's 10 year old is playing the game, that should be fine. With the state of Fleet Chat, it is not fine.

 

You might want to argue that it's an MMO, so we should understand that wildly offensive language is going to get used all the time... and the game does indicate it's "T for Teen" and that the admins of the game can't be responsible for online interactions, but at the same time... that kind of chat is prohibited in the EULA.

 

So... your argument is... honestly...

We know what we're doing is wrong, and we shouldn't do it... but we want to do it anyways.

 

...no. It is wrong, and it isn't good for the game, and something needs to be done about it. Personally, I would prefer to see an RP instance; chat would be more immersive, and people who want to talk like they're on /4Chan can stick to PvE or PvP instances. And truthfully, I'm not at all bothered by vulgarity... what has me filled with wrath is primarily how the worst of the worst chat breaks my immersion.

BUT if SWTOR is going to give us an RP instance, we need to be able to report Trolls, and make sure they know it's just not worth their time to come hassling us. Somehow, "RP" became synonymous with behaving like a mature person... oh well.

 

The chat has filters. It blocks profanity and other questionable content for minors. Like I said if you see something that violates the ToS report it. They address obvious problem accounts.

 

IF A PLAYER HAS A PROBLEM ARE THEY USING FILTERS? ARE THEY USING IGNORE.

 

Its the same group nightly on Harbringer east for the most part.

 

Secondly, the reason people leave this game is asked. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS. They don't have a moderator of chat. The results speak for themselves. I doubt chat trolling ranks up there at all. Now these types of threads? Apparently moderation of the forums is something they take seriously.

 

I find it to be uber lazy to not use such an easy and simple feature like ignore. I have no problem using the report feature. I know enough to keep on the filter if I am easily offended. I at least try before posting on the forums about the lack of civility on chat. I find it a huge waste of our collective subscriber dollars to have a person do the work that I can easily do. I USE the the tools provided to sanitize chat so I DON"T feel the need to complain about it..

 

I take more issue with the chat clear people. Because they do it so you cannot block them. I don't burn books I don't like. I'm not a Snowflake.

Edited November 15, 2017 by PlagaNerezza

[kodrac]

That’s fine, but why defend bad behavior? Why is wanting people to behave like adults “wimpy”? Does that mean acting like a 12 year old hopped up on poptarts and Mountain Dew is “tough”? I doubt anyone is losing any sleep over this but it’s annoying.

 

Hey now. Let's not disparage the breakfast of champions by equating with immature adults.

[Ralei]

I find it to be uber lazy to not use such an easy and simple feature like ignore. I have no problem using the report feature. I know enough to keep on the filter if I am easily offended. I at least try before posting on the forums about the lack of civility on chat. I find it a huge waste of our collective subscriber dollars to have a person do the work that I can easily do. I USE the the tools provided to sanitize chat so I DON"T feel the need to complain about it..

.

 

1) Filtering is for "bad" words. Most people don't care if you say damnit, that's not what this is about. Filtering is not going to filter out a Nazi or a sexist screed or the people who agree with him for the lulz. It doesn't filter tone and it doesn't scrub inappropriate conversations about rape or murder or the bad taste it leaves in people's mouth toward the game.

 

2) The ignore feature didn't just pop out of thin air. It's a tool that came about because people got on the forums and complained about deviants disrupting their game play.

[WaveRun]

I think for me the saddest part from the merges is seeing all the Skywalker legacies running around. It's lore breaking and not immersive at all. Coming from The Ebon Hawk, I always was able to find a spot on the fleet cantina to RP but now you cannot do that without a massive crowd throwing (soon, now that Life Day is coming...) snow packages at you (essentially what I equate this to for people standing on top of you). Now I cannot do this. For now, I will keep clicking teh report button for character names and RP ruiners. Maybe I'll get my RP server back .

 

Edit: To all the people saying to ignore, there is so much trash that is thrown that my ignore list cannot handle it as its full. So what do then? Delete then have to repeat..?

Edited November 15, 2017 by WaveRun

[aerockyul]

I think for me the saddest part from the merges is seeing all the Skywalker legacies running around. It's lore breaking and not immersive at all. Coming from The Ebon Hawk, I always was able to find a spot on the fleet cantina to RP but now you cannot do that without a massive crowd throwing (soon, now that Life Day is coming...) snow packages at you (essentially what I equate this to for people standing on top of you). Now I cannot do this. For now, I will keep clicking teh report button for character names and RP ruiners. Maybe I'll get my RP server back .

 

Edit: To all the people saying to ignore, there is so much trash that is thrown that my ignore list cannot handle it as its full. So what do then? Delete then have to repeat..?

 

Hope the devs finally institute account-wide ignore, OR massively increase or uncap the ignore limit.

[Ralei]

It does take investment, yep. Costs.

 

What I think is that responsibility does lie with the company who created the space to make sure it's not doing harm. Just like if you want to open a restaurant, you have a responsibility to make sure it's sanitary, that you don't discriminate against your customers, and you don't allow violence or incitement to happen. It's just understood to be part of the costs of doing business - an investment in the long term sustainability of your product.

 

I think we're moving that way toward online spaces as well. Hopefully, the game/tech industry will come up with some voluntary standards they will follow that's better for their customers and their bottom line, too.

[LordFell]

IF A PLAYER HAS A PROBLEM ARE THEY USING FILTERS? ARE THEY USING IGNORE.

I don't use filters; filters are a pathetic blanket to try and pull over this awful... and I'm not at all concerned about a few bad words; I'm a notorious potty mouth, to be honest. My problem is when people talk about, for example "Hey everyone, come to my strong hold, we're gonna gang bang Treek."

...absolutely NOTHING in that phrase would be filtered. My favourite, relationship ending insults also use no "actual" four letter words, but they are vile beyond your comprehension.

 

On the other hand, if filters are enabled, it's entirely possible that the game would seriously muck up an honest, RP driven discussion between a Smuggler and a Jedi Consular about the price of transporting two crates of grey-legal Kypra***** Crystals off of Dathomir... because there's a bad word embedded in Kypra*****.

 

The ignore feature is also a flimsy dodge. If a Credit Seller is on fleet, within 5 minutes everyone on Fleet has reported/ignored them. That Credit Seller is obviously the problem, SWTOR admin will nuked that account probably within 12 hours. So... what if someone has created a character just to Troll the Fleet. Maybe some people don't care, certainly not everyone will /ignore a Troll and even less will take the time to /report them (especially since you need to open a specific ticket to do so). But, if say... 50 people take the time to /ignore the person... wouldn't you agree that THAT PERSON is the problem, not the 50 people who felt the need to ignore them? Why should the onus be on the victims of that person's trolling to solve the problem? Actually to NOT solve the problem, because the Troll is still there, and operating without consequences.

 

It's time to bring in a Right-Click to report inappropriate chat, and make the problem players suffer consequences.

 

 

Secondly, the reason people leave this game is asked. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS. They don't have a moderator of chat. The results speak for themselves. I doubt chat trolling ranks up there at all. Now these types of threads? Apparently moderation of the forums is something they take seriously.

What you're saying is... if you don't like it... don't play. Screw that. My counter proposal is "If you can't be bound by the terms of the EULA regarding in game chat... lose your account."

 

On my side... I have the End User License Agreement. On your side, you have "we like to troll. kek."

I think I win this argument.

 

EDIT: Yep. Just proved that the filters were dumb, because they'll draw a bead on the combo of 4 naughty letters and block them without context.

Edited November 15, 2017 by LordFell