TopAceOfEarth Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I mean this is some very serious calculation to have adjusted an ability by 5.15% and not just 5.0% .... either that or the poo they threw at the class change wall was sliding down the board a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 they seem to be killing all classes. It is almost like they put 248 gear in the game but didnt want anyone to benefit from it. So they are kneecapping all classes so that we just have the grind but no benefit. And then they wonder why they have dwindling subscriber numbers. The egos at the top of the bioware management team need to be fired and replaced. They have cut the operation to bare minimum and continue to cater to their own egos over their players. Dead on. We were just discussing this last night and came to a similar conclusion. Anything to hinder the gamers at this point in clearing any content but OPS is a focus for hinderance. We think bioware really wants to put a nerf to OPS numbers in the next year. It's harder to create OPS and bioware just doesn't seem to have the staff to get them out in a decent release schedule. SO, create a sennario and make fewer gamers do OPS so they are manipulating the date to coin a phrase. Create some OPS bosses at an extremely slow pace but nerf all classes so they cannot do or get into HM or NM content (many cannot even do the SM content ) so in a years time even with their so called "re-focus" back on MMO content. We will hear how little gamers clear OPS (even the lowest levels) so they can justify doing the easier to create story content again whichwe all know didn't work out really well. I'll also add, we think a new tier of gear is going to be brought up. So bioware is nerfing everyone in prep to that release of gear and new grind. 1 step forward and 2 steps back so to speak in bioware design. We are in the mists of changes that bring no good to this game. They don't add fun or entertainment to a game that is struggling and thats a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellhog Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 My body is ready. That being said, I know it needed a nerf compared to some other classes, unfortunately not this much. I'll still be raiding in deception for some fights but probably rocking danktred more often now like in 4.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimarb Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 quote from your how class balance works... Melee Burst/Ranged Sustained Damage Dealers (at the target DPS) Advanced Prototype Powertech / Tactics Vanguard Carnage Marauder / Combat Sentinel 10660.70 DPS AFTER NERF Concealment Operative / Scrapper Scoundrel Deception Assassin / Infiltration Shadow 10589.22 DPS NOW Engineering Sniper / Saboteur Gunslinger Innovative Ordnance Mercenary / Assault Specialist Commando Madness Sorcerer / Balance Sage Rage Juggernaut / Focus Guardian Carnage 10,6k dps after nerf....deception 10,5 now...after nerf maybe 10k... i agree with a nerf as i did with the nerf for arsenal...but please get your math right. the list you postet is a joke if you think this is balanced just dps considerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazhez Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Deception needed an adjustment, but this much?? This is probably a silly question, but is the goal to make people that are doing nim have to start using the nim crystal? People probably don't need encryptions much anymore, on populated servers anyway, but the nim cyrstal takes 15 encryptions to craft. (keeping conquest relevant, even though it's horrible) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega_Fallos Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Excellent news. Full fleet of sins and maras. Every solo pop - 4 sins, 3 maras, 1 merc. Fotm rerollers loves to cry every class changes news. Wanna feel the pain? Try powertech in solo then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elusive_Thing Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 IMO the class didn't need a nerf, and here's why: Infiltration/Deception has literally nothing going for it but raw DPS. Infil/Decep (and Hatred/Serenity) is the only class that doesn't have a raid buff.. PT? Otherwise I think you had a lot of good points. Well posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdjeYo Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 quote from your how class balance works... Melee Burst/Ranged Sustained Damage Dealers (at the target DPS) Advanced Prototype Powertech / Tactics Vanguard Carnage Marauder / Combat Sentinel 10660.70 DPS AFTER NERF Concealment Operative / Scrapper Scoundrel Deception Assassin / Infiltration Shadow 10589.22 DPS NOW Engineering Sniper / Saboteur Gunslinger Innovative Ordnance Mercenary / Assault Specialist Commando Madness Sorcerer / Balance Sage Rage Juggernaut / Focus Guardian Carnage 10,6k dps after nerf....deception 10,5 now...after nerf maybe 10k... i agree with a nerf as i did with the nerf for arsenal...but please get your math right. the list you postet is a joke if you think this is balanced just dps considerd Carnage will always have top parses higher than intended until they either fix clipping or balance with clipping in mind. They do neither, so in their view Carnage is a lot lower than it is in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlavivsAetivs Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) I thought powertech/vanguard gets a buff? Still, even then it has more raid utility than Infill/Decep. Deception/Hatred/Infil/Serenity either need to get a raid buff OR be top DPS. Position requirement needs to be eliminated completely no matter what. Edited September 25, 2017 by FlavivsAetivs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elusive_Thing Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I thought powertech/vanguard gets a buff? Still, even then it has more raid utility than Infill/Decep. Deception/Hatred/Infil/Serenity either need to get a raid buff OR be top DPS. Position requirement needs to be eliminated completely no matter what. I meant they have no raid buff, same goes for Juggernauts actually. However, I do agree with what you say about Deception's viability. Even if they did Carnage levels of DPS after the nerf (which they won't do), Marauder is just substantially better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazhez Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I thought powertech/vanguard gets a buff? Still, even then it has more raid utility than Infill/Decep. Deception/Hatred/Infil/Serenity either need to get a raid buff OR be top DPS. Position requirement needs to be eliminated completely no matter what. Raid utility? Pt has sonic rebounder, sins used to have the heal puddle to phase walk...so yes it would appear they have nothing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdjeYo Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I thought powertech/vanguard gets a buff? Still, even then it has more raid utility than Infill/Decep. Deception/Hatred/Infil/Serenity either need to get a raid buff OR be top DPS. Position requirement needs to be eliminated completely no matter what. I don't really see how Sin raid utility is lower than that of Pt and Jugg dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oli-fynnobi Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Chill out guys ffs! They know what they're doing..... ..... I mean come on: "DevNotes: The Deception / Infiltration discipline was overperforming.."! That's completly right! Never had such competent Devs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlavivsAetivs Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) They're all pretty bad. PT at least has rebounder, Jugg an invincible reflect. Shadow has nothing, literally nothing. No puddle for a 2% heal buff like 3.0, no phase walk like 4.0. And no raid buff - the 5% damage raid buff of a mara trumped a sin before this nerf. As usual it now utterly destroys any usefulness of a sin. Serenity/Hatred should technically be outparsing Deception but death field on them got nerfed to oblivion (starting in 3.1.1 but nerfed even more over the past 2 years) because of sages so they're basically a useless spec. Stealth Rez doesn't do much for raid utility. It's either tied to your rotation, or you're going to loose a lot of DPS using it. And that's if it works, because it's currently broken for some people. It breaks off at 2.4 seconds each time for literally no reason every time I use it, and no it's not AOE/heals/etc. The only thing we briefly had was the ability to reflect and cheese stuff for a little while, but they quickly removed all of that and capped reflect. We cheese things with phase walk as tanks/dps in 4.X (useful for the beam on revan 1st floor, for example). Can't do that anymore either. Edited September 25, 2017 by FlavivsAetivs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdjeYo Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 They're all pretty bad. PT at least has rebounder. Shadow has nothing, literally nothing. No puddle for a 2% heal buff like 3.0, no phase walk like 4.0. And no raid buff - the 5% damage raid buff of a mara trumped a sin before this nerf. As usual it now utterly destroys any usefulness of a sin. Stealth Rez doesn't do much for raid utility. It's either tied to your rotation, or you're going to loose a lot of DPS using it. And that's if it works, because it's currently broken for some people. It breaks off at 2.4 seconds each time for literally no reason every time I use it, and no it's not AOE/heals/etc. There's still the 5% reduced damage taken and the piss poor heal on AoE taunt. It's nothing special, but it's not nothing. I'd say that's around the same level of usefulness as Sonic Rebounder. Would be outclassed by Jugg AoE taunt buff if absorb shields didn't have the nasty habit of overriding each other, making it worse than nothing a lot of the time if you have a sorc healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimarb Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Carnage will always have top parses higher than intended until they either fix clipping or balance with clipping in mind. They do neither, so in their view Carnage is a lot lower than it is in reality. radly walter (top-parse) doesnt use the clipping mechanic and uses a rotation for carnage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazhez Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Stealth Rez doesn't do much for raid utility. It's either tied to your rotation, or you're going to loose a lot of DPS using it. And that's if it works, because it's currently broken for some people. It breaks off at 2.4 seconds each time for literally no reason every time I use it, and no it's not AOE/heals/etc. I bet that was intentional. I saw a stream of one of the influencers say, "no they removed stealth rez" I don't know if they were mistaken, but I could see it. Our op used to be able to rez well, and now as soon as he starts to channel, nothing on him, hots, no dots out, nothing, he gets poppped right back into combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlavivsAetivs Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 There's still the 5% reduced damage taken and the piss poor heal on AoE taunt. We don't get a heal on AOE taunt, unless you refer to shadow's shelter which used to be tied to phase walk (no idea what it's tied to now). And like I said, I already mentioned that. It was really useful in 3.X, was useless with 4.0 coming out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdjeYo Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 radly walter (top-parse) doesnt use the clipping mechanic and uses a rotation for carnage. Yes he does, of course he does, it's getting an extra ability inside your 100% armour penetration window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdjeYo Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 We don't get a heal on AOE taunt, unless you refer to shadow's shelter which used to be tied to phase walk (no idea what it's tied to now). And like I said, I already mentioned that. It was really useful in 3.X, was useless with 4.0 coming out. Yes, I referred to Assassin's Shelter, and yes I know it's mediocre. But it's not literally nothing. And as I pointed out, if you're with Sorc healers it's more useful than the utility juggs get with their aoe taunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarast Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) Good job, you killed deception. This spec was already near useless in solo/group ranked and now it's definitely done. GG Edited September 25, 2017 by Quarast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diviciacus Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Yes, I referred to Assassin's Shelter, and yes I know it's mediocre. But it's not literally nothing. And as I pointed out, if you're with Sorc healers it's more useful than the utility juggs get with their aoe taunt I'd say it's a lot, but that would just mean it'd get nerfed too. But seriously I generally heal for 500-600k with it on a typical NIM fight. That's 165-200k healing each on the two tanks and the other melee dps (because it doesn't affect me and the ranged are outside the effect radius). Not game-breaking, but has definitely probably saved us from wiping more than once. Also I did rough math on the nerf. I killed the 4M hp ship dummy five times (which took me more than 35 minutes) for better sampling, although by no means statistically rigorous. But I wasn't going to spend three and a half hours straight doing it for the minimally-statistically-relevant 30 trials. Anyway, with rough numbers: 1. Three of our six abilities nerfed by 10% (or more, RIP Psychokinetic Blast), and another two nerfed by 5% 2. All abilities nerfed by an additional roughly 0.6% (2% loss of damage in execute range of 30% is roughly 2x0.3 = 0.6%) 3. This comes out to, given the variance in trials I attempted, a nerf of between 830 to 875 DPS, for my skill, gear, and latency. Overally, while this isn't representative, a nerf of let's say absolute minimum 800 DPS is... well, time to start gearing an alt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdjeYo Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I 1. Three of our six abilities nerfed by 10% (or more, RIP Psychokinetic Blast), and another two nerfed by 5% 2. All abilities nerfed by an additional roughly 0.6% (2% loss of damage in execute range of 30% is roughly 2x0.3 = 0.6%) 3. This comes out to, given the variance in trials I attempted, a nerf of between 830 to 875 DPS, for my skill, gear, and latency. Overally, while this isn't representative, a nerf of let's say absolute minimum 800 DPS is... well, time to start gearing an alt. Damn, that's quite painful. While a small nerf wasn't really out of place imo, this is going way overboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarast Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) Very happy to see these changes, Deception have been heavily overperforming for a long time. I hope this is sarcasm. If not, then you have been living in a bubble since launch. Edited September 25, 2017 by Quarast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimarb Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Carnage will always have top parses higher than intended until they either fix clipping or balance with clipping in mind. They do neither, so in their view Carnage is a lot lower than it is in reality. if not considering carnage from their list take fury. top parse is also 10,6k and it should just do 2.5% more dmg than deception...considering the nerf will hit deception down to less than 10k their math is still wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts