Class Changes: Deception Assassin / Infiltration Shadow

[thunder_saber]

No, don't say this because it isn't true.

Deception does have the disadvantage of light armor, but it still have some defensives, which isn't the case for Powertech. Yeah, I completely agree that defensive that last only three seconds are kinda useless in long pvp match, but they exist and can help you deliver one or two hits before going down. ^^

 

I did not say that sins did not have defensive . I said that the defensive in comparison to other class was less . At present moment yeah its do able due to the high burst that sins currently have but once it reduces it will change the whole scenario to a different direction .

 

But it does have perma-stealth, sleep without a cd and can stealth out of combat. Those are things that are very powerful in PvP particularly. I just don't get why people ignore these abilities as if they do nothing.

 

The difference :

 

Sin

force cloak : 2 min /1m15sec if cooldown selected

Shroud : 1min

deflection : 2min , even if u still take refelect u still get hurt , only 50% is blocked and all damage is not blocked

 

 

Mara :

 

Cloak of pain :1m

Predation: 1.5s , instant if uitilie is selected

force camo : 45s

unding rage : 1.5m

Obfuscate:1m

Saber ward:3m , also utility which heals u for evey 5% or so of u health .

 

Any good Mara would survive against a sin and in the end mara would mostly win .

[supertimtaf]

The difference :

 

Sin

force cloak : 2 min /1m15sec if cooldown selected

Shroud : 1min

deflection : 2min , even if u still take refelect u still get hurt , only 50% is blocked and all damage is not blocked

 

 

Mara :

 

Cloak of pain :1m

Predation: 1.5s , instant if uitilie is selected

force camo : 45s

unding rage : 1.5m

Obfuscate:1m

Saber ward:3m , also utility which heals u for evey 5% or so of u health .

 

Any good Mara would survive against a sin and in the end mara would mostly win .

 

A main thing that peoples tend to forget is that Force Cloak is used to reset your burst, which makes it an offensive cooldown. It is used mainly in PvE, but I and others also tend to use it in PvP if we really need to burst down somebody, while having the extra shroud (given by a special utility) on us, also allowing the use of another spike (free interrupt, or free global if your team is ready for it) on your target. The only time where you might be tempted to use force Cloak as a defensive ability is when you've used every other defensive/burst tool you have and/or are fighting a merc, a sniper or a mara, and even with this, most of the time you will go out of stealth anyway due to bad sync, lag/freeze and a finishing animation that still hits you while you're in stealth. Peoples that don't play a sin at all, or at a good level (these peoples get rare now) see Force Cloak as a broken ability, but you'll know if you takes the time to play with it that it's actually very hard to pull off effectively. I'm taking about PvP, in PvE, the question isn't asked because you don't need to be actually out of combat to have your burst reset.

[thunder_saber]

A main thing that peoples tend to forget is that Force Cloak is used to reset your burst, which makes it an offensive cooldown. It is used mainly in PvE, but I and others also tend to use it in PvP if we really need to burst down somebody, while having the extra shroud (given by a special utility) on us, also allowing the use of another spike (free interrupt, or free global if your team is ready for it) on your target. The only time where you might be tempted to use force Cloak as a defensive ability is when you've used every other defensive/burst tool you have and/or are fighting a merc, a sniper or a mara, and even with this, most of the time you will go out of stealth anyway due to bad sync, lag/freeze and a finishing animation that still hits you while you're in stealth. Peoples that don't play a sin at all, or at a good level (these peoples get rare now) see Force Cloak as a broken ability, but you'll know if you takes the time to play with it that it's actually very hard to pull off effectively. I'm taking about PvP, in PvE, the question isn't asked because you don't need to be actually out of combat to have your burst reset.

 

Agreed

[invertioN]

A main thing that peoples tend to forget is that Force Cloak is used to reset your burst, which makes it an offensive cooldown. It is used mainly in PvE, but I and others also tend to use it in PvP if we really need to burst down somebody, while having the extra shroud (given by a special utility) on us, also allowing the use of another spike (free interrupt, or free global if your team is ready for it) on your target. The only time where you might be tempted to use force Cloak as a defensive ability is when you've used every other defensive/burst tool you have and/or are fighting a merc, a sniper or a mara, and even with this, most of the time you will go out of stealth anyway due to bad sync, lag/freeze and a finishing animation that still hits you while you're in stealth. Peoples that don't play a sin at all, or at a good level (these peoples get rare now) see Force Cloak as a broken ability, but you'll know if you takes the time to play with it that it's actually very hard to pull off effectively. I'm taking about PvP, in PvE, the question isn't asked because you don't need to be actually out of combat to have your burst reset.

 

If you cloak to reset recklesness in ranked it's are recipe to get killed, except in rare occasions which don't need to be discussed (game winning kill for example)

 

Sin

force cloak : 2 min /1m15sec if cooldown selected

Shroud : 1min

deflection : 2min , even if u still take refelect u still get hurt , only 50% is blocked and all damage is not blocked

.

 

Hello? Where is force speed? Force speed with utility is a dcd in 5.x

Edited September 27, 2017 by invertioN

[PerKIA]

In my opinion, some nerf can be seen as a bit harsh, and I understand that you are emotionally invested in this class and thus unable to see the bigger picture, but these class changes do make sense based on their target DPS and category strategy.

 

Please, explain this "Bigger Picture" to me, honestly, I want to know.

 

Originally Posted by RikuvonDrake View Post

Very happy to see these changes, Deception have been heavily overperforming for a long time.

 

how can Deception be "overperforming" and Carnage not?

As it stands now, Carnage and Deception is pretty much on equal foottng dps wise, with a slight advantage for

Carnage. Both are melee, both are burst

 

 

Furthermoore...

 

where in this "big picture" dose tha fact that Virulence are outperfoming MAdness by at least 400dps, were dose that fit in?

 

This "target dps balancing" that is now taking place makes absolut no sense whatsoever. They say one thing, then do the opposite. the different classes within the same cataogories are not in par with each other.

 

In my mind, and I think most Nightmare players would agree, all classes were overperforming heavily and often not excelling at what they were supposed to be the best at, such as MM not having the best burst (with the Viru nerf this is now adjusted), Carnage having the best sustain (Annihilation is now superior), Arsenal being the best at both bursts and sustain (now only good burst) and Sorcerer being able to solo heal several Nightmare fights.

 

If BW is balancing the classes after what Nim Raiders preform, making the game challenging for them, then this game is truly dead.

 

I dont know how large the NiM raiding community is, my guess is that its no bigger than 5-10% of the player base. Thats not were the revenues are coming from. The vast majority of the revenues are coming from the other players, the one BW, at moment with these "Target dps balancing" is *###* over.

Edited September 27, 2017 by PerKIA

[Threjyan]

I just want to know who had the stupid idea to introduce a new tier of gear then spend months of developer resources nerfing classes to compensate for that gear increase.

 

 

 

and most likely there is a new tier incoming, due to to GotM nim is coming.

[benficakungfu]

I just want to know who had the stupid idea to introduce a new tier of gear then spend months of developer resources nerfing classes to compensate for that gear increase.

 

I don't care about the nerf(s) per se but I think I'll stop playing/paying until they prove they have an even small handle on overall game design.

 

dont be shocked if in about 2/3 months comes out. New tier.

[benficakungfu]

and most likely there is a new tier incoming, due to to GotM nim is coming.

 

hmm so you have 2 bosses released out of 5, nim version aint coming so fast, or they are releasing 2 nim bosses?

[Darthanimus]

Only classes viable now are mara carnage and fury merc, arsenal and oper concealment. PvP and especially ranked are unplayable unless you go the aforementioned classes.

[chrishill]

***? SMH..***..SMH Why do this BIOWARE ***...This class wasn't overperforming..smh... devs are under performing..WOW...JUST WOW!!!

[RafaelPeretz]

So, skank tank will be the way for pvp now.

Thank God I rolled a sniper a while ago. Time to gear it just in case.

[Rilok_Singz]

Hey folks,

 

Below you will find the planned changes for Deception and Infiltration in Game Update 5.5:

 

 

-eric

 

Dang, 'glad' to see these changes. May I suggest you take away Deflection too? As I see it, (Deception) Assassin's aren't enough of a sitting duck after 5.5 takes effect, and lets not even think about giving them Phasewalk back, I mean, who wants them to have any sort of survivability, right? Keep up the good balances Musco, I'm sure as you can see on this thread so many people are ecstatic for this update!

[olagatonjedi]

Dang, 'glad' to see these changes. May I suggest you take away Deflection too? As I see it, (Deception) Assassin's aren't enough of a sitting duck after 5.5 takes effect, and lets not even think about giving them Phasewalk back, I mean, who wants them to have any sort of survivability, right? Keep up the good balances Musco, I'm sure as you can see on this thread so many people are ecstatic for this update!

Did you truly think anyone would be ecstatic for any of the nerfs.

[Diviciacus]

I dont know how large the NiM raiding community is, my guess is that its no bigger than 5-10% of the player base. Thats not were the revenues are coming from. The vast majority of the revenues are coming from the other players, the one BW, at moment with these "Target dps balancing" is *###* over.

 

5-10%? Not even close, man. It's maybe 5-10 guilds total. In the whole game.

[Rilok_Singz]

Did you truly think anyone would be ecstatic for any of the nerfs.

 

It was sarcasm my friend.. Thought I laid it on pretty thick.

[Uebli]

Hi, that cant be serious !! The melee classes all have an disadvantage against range classes.... but when i play this game i want play an laserswaord / lance ;-) .... the assa was the class wich gives a chance against commandos ...but with this nerf its again a reason to leave again . i started short before (2 months) to play again.... but with htis changes i will leave again in a short time ;-)

[Kazz_Devlin]

I think there was a podcast not that long ago where they commented that they don't see any need to at the moment readjust tanks and feel that they are balanced correctly. Skank-Tank is indeed a bit of an issue in PvP but the core problem here isn't skanking philosophy, but instead the lack of benefit from defensive stats in PvP making skank the only way to go for players who wish to play tanks.

 

Just remove the ability for tanks to do damage they are tanks they shouldn't be doing dmg period. They should be a support class (battle meditations anyone) simple premises they constantly produces buffs and/or debuff's Take Sorcerers barrier away( they got crap ton of mobility now days) and give it to tanks with minor modifications: barrier mitigates a percent of dmg not 100% all dmg. Also the barrier has hit points once gone the barrier is gone. While in the barrier channeling your buff/debuff any dmg that does pass through pushes back the buff so if they were channeling a say 5.0 buff to dmg it might get pushed back to 3.0. Possible utility would be reduced push back, multiple channeled buffs at cost of less hit-points of the barrier, mobile channeling and a plethora of others I'm sure the dev's could come up with if they'd only innovate a little point is they don't even approach an out of the box solution

[Kazz_Devlin]

Ok, now I want just to ask one thing to the Devs: are you f***ing kidding me?

Are you aware that you're destroying the only thing Deceptions can do properly: damage?

 

It's not a nerf, you're making this class utterly useless.

 

You want the balance? Let's make an example then:

Operative Concealment had a little less dps than Deception and way more survavibility, what you did was nerfing the dps a bit. Now we'll have a Deception that does way less damage than Conc AND has less survivability.

 

Do you see people complaining about how ULTRA OP Deceptions are like you saw with Mercs? I don't think so.

And still, this *thing* is far worse than what you did to Mercs.

 

Is it possible to slighty touch a class without buffing it like hell or making it unuseable? Is it?

That would be every player's dream.

 

Thanks.

 

PS: do you even see people reaction to what you just posted?

 

Worse than what they did to mercs! Really cause what they did to merc's was a god #$^ joke. Nerf there DPS my butt. It's still and I win OP class because bioware fails to grasp the concept that you can't have a hybrid spec that puts out high dps like pure dps classes and PLUS heals, escapes and shields itself . might as well call this merc wars now. Now all i can do is smack my wet noodle of a lightsaber at an already OP class and watch how i get ***** R@(#D

[Kazz_Devlin]

Did you truly think anyone would be ecstatic for any of the nerfs.

 

Yeah I was when they nerfed Merc that is until i found out is was a complete joke and their still OP as hell.

[Serrowherrow]

These nerfs make absolutely no sense whatsoever. Deception isn't overperforming and is mediocre in PvP.

 

But sure, why not. If everyone's class is ****, nobody has to worry about there being an imbalance.

[olagatonjedi]

Im all for getting closer to balance. Still have to wait for the balance to utilities and dcd's, as they have stated already they are balancing one aspect at a time (dps at this time) so they dont affect too.many variables and get false results.

[PlagaNerezza]

Hey folks,

 

Below you will find the planned changes for Deception and Infiltration in Game Update 5.5:

 

 

-eric

 

Deception was over performing? The god damn closer is used in the rotation to get any kind of DPS out of this class to trigger a proc. Their is no way this class was a problem in PVP and in PVE its almost certainty not even close to top DPS needing a balance nerf. It wasn't the skills morons. Its the bloated stats you keep ramping up in the gear.

 

You know if your going to nerf something at least have the balls to post the metrics supporting it. This kind of balancing is garbage development work that amateurs do. Some fix for something no one asked for. In an off-cycle patch. That doesn't do anything for balance except drive people away who just got screwed.

 

Guess I'll roll one of the real OP as hell DPS classes. You just hate stealth classes. Operatives and Sins. Just gotta mess with those players?

 

Mid cycle nerfs with your new gear system really are a screw job. Suddenly you are at level 100 and spent a bunch of credits to get at least a decent left side of the character sheet and weapons and you just obliterated the character and credits spent on the character. In the name of balance? Meanwhile I'm watching skank tanks and dps/heals mercs just run rampant over the games meta play. Oh sure. A DPS that H2F and is taking no damage. Totally normal.

 

A DPS that hits harder at below 25% nerf that class to the ground!!!!!!!!! Cause balance? Ok. Amateur

[Kirtastropohe]

Deception was over performing? The gosh darn closer is used in the rotation to get any kind of DPS out of this class to trigger a proc. Their is no way this class was a problem in PVP and in PVE its almost certainty not even close to top DPS needing a balance nerf. It wasn't the skills morons. Its the bloated stats you keep ramping up in the gear.

 

You know if your going to nerf something at least have the balls to post the metrics supporting it. This kind of balancing is garbage development work that amateurs do. Some fix for something no one asked for. In an off-cycle patch. That doesn't do anything for balance except drive people away who just got screwed.

 

Guess I'll roll one of the real OP as hell DPS classes. You just hate stealth classes. Operatives and Sins. Just gotta mess with those players?

 

Mid cycle nerfs with your new gear system really are a screw job. Suddenly you are at level 100 and spent a bunch of credits to get at least a decent left side of the character sheet and weapons and you just obliterated the character and credits spent on the character. In the name of balance? Meanwhile I'm watching skank tanks and dps/heals mercs just run rampant over the games meta play. Oh sure. A DPS that H2F and is taking no damage. Totally normal.

 

A DPS that hits harder at below 25% nerf that class to the ground!!!!!!!!! Cause balance? Ok. Amateur

 

Preach, brother. This nerf was not needed, and will just hurt the class. Stats can be made to support anything. It's the real experience that determines whether a nerf is needed. Play a WZ with a shadow and you will not feel overpowered. If your team has a healer, you'll feel comfortable, but you still won't be obliterating anyway. If your team doesn't have a healer, you'll be trying to like heck to survive and failing miserably in the end as an infiltration shadow. All this nerf will do is turn it into the new serenity i.e... no one using it. People will run to the tank spec even more than now, or they'll go serenity for the dots.

[olagatonjedi]

Preach, brother. This nerf was not needed, and will just hurt the class. Stats can be made to support anything. It's the real experience that determines whether a nerf is needed. Play a WZ with a shadow and you will not feel overpowered. If your team has a healer, you'll feel comfortable, but you still won't be obliterating anyway. If your team doesn't have a healer, you'll be trying to like heck to survive and failing miserably in the end as an infiltration shadow. All this nerf will do is turn it into the new serenity i.e... no one using it. People will run to the tank spec even more than now, or they'll go serenity for the dots.

Lmfao, the "real experience" showed that a nerf was needed for the majority of players. You are just trying to invalidate their data by giving your opinion, amd personal experience. Problem is your sample size of 1 has a much larger margin of error than their sample size of thousands.

[DynoByte]

There is no data to show that this class needed to be hit this hard ... It was preforming perfectly in PVE as a viable DPS class ... These changes will definitely make it no longer viable ... it is hard enough to compete against ranged classes and melee usually takes back of the bus in Raid selection. I know this class was doing decent in PVP but I have played it so long I know a good deal of that is due to my general PvP awareness ... These changes will leave it under preforming without a doubt ... At least they let us have some play time after they stole phase walk and gave it to sorcs ... This class has always struggled with crushing nerfs ... It is my favorite and if they do make these changes I believe it will be time to hang up my lightsaber and un-sub. I doubt these class changes are being made by someone that actually knows and plays this class, I do invite you to contact me to discuss changes that would be acceptable. Please stop relying on fools that show you spreadsheets/graphs to make you look at the skewed numbers they want you to see for the decision making process. Edited October 2, 2017 by DynoByte