Thanks for Theron Shan. <3 <3 <3 This is a love thread, haters make your own lol.

[Swingkittie]

That part with Tyth is confusing. It doesn't speak of Theron and the only way it works is if you consider Vinn as the traitor. Of course, we don't know Vinn at this point but he is of Zakuul and we do rule Zakuul so that could be what Tyth's talking about. It's pretty vague though and I'm almost wondering if at that moment the writers weren't sure yet where they would take the traitor arc.

 

I believe Tyth is talking about Theron. When Theron betrays he uses similar words on Umbara saying specifically:

 

 

"Luring you into that trap on Iokath was just the beginning.

Ever since we defeated Valkorian, everything i've done has been toward one goal

The total destruction of the Eternal Alliance."

 

And on the listening station we hear Theron say more about what he did on Iokath:

"I also lead the commander into that trap on Iokath. You wouldn't hear me out, so I took matters into my own hands."

 

Nathema: "The tech involved shouldn't be that different from Tyth so I think I can slice into it."

 

 

Also at the end if you shake hands with Theron it says he is filled with "hope" for a better future. That was one of the things Tyth mentions that the betrayer has hope eroding. So I think Theron, in some ways, was speaking the truth about how he felt. He just over exaggerated it to appease the Order.

 

I don't know how because we aren't told this information. But somehow Theron learns everything, doesn't say a darn word to the commander or Lana because of "reasons", then starts a galactic war on purpose, causing the deaths of a lot of people and almost the death of the commander and Lana. Ugh....I am going to stop here because the writing of this just made Theron look like a complete idiot. Sorry....they could have done this so much better.

 

Edited it for spoiler tags.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Swingkittie

[Dracofish]

I believe Tyth is talking about Theron. When Theron betrays he uses similar words on Umbara saying specifically:

 

"Luring you into that trap on Iokath was just the beginning.

Ever since we defeated Valkorian, everything i've done has been toward one goal

The total destruction of the Eternal Alliance."

 

And on the listening station we hear Theron say more about what he did on Iokath:

"I also lead the commander into that trap on Iokath. You wouldn't hear me out, so I took matters into my own hands."

 

Nathema: "The tech involved shouldn't be that different from Tyth so I think I can slice into it."

 

Also at the end if you shake hands with Theron it says he is filled with "hope" for a better future. That was one of the things Tyth mentions that the betrayer has hope eroding. So I think Theron, in some ways, was speaking the truth about how he felt. He just over exaggerated it to appease the Order.

 

I don't know how because we aren't told this information. But somehow Theron learns everything, doesn't say a darn word to the commander or Lana because of "reasons", then starts a galactic war on purpose, causing the deaths of a lot of people and almost the death of the commander and Lana. Ugh....I am going to stop here because the writing of this just made Theron look like a complete idiot. Sorry....they could have done this so much better.

 

If only they had gone the route of a great spy caper...where we were playing along with an undercover Theron. That would have made a thousand times more sense...and would have been hella fun to play. I don't believe for an instant that Theron couldn't have found -some- way to tell the Command what was up. Smoke signals? Paper airplane? A hand-written note, perhaps? Go talk in the middle of the woods where there is no tech?

[Swingkittie]

If only they had gone the route of a great spy caper...where we were playing along with an undercover Theron. That would have made a thousand times more sense...and would have been hella fun to play. I don't believe for an instant that Theron couldn't have found -some- way to tell the Command what was up. Smoke signals? Paper airplane? A hand-written note, perhaps? Go talk in the middle of the woods where there is no tech?

 

Exactly that. Not everything has to be communicated through tech especially since Theron knows the droid is using technology to listen in on everything. I still don't get though how Gemini knew Theron was talking to us on Nathema where there was no tech around us. You could tell that he fried out his implants because they look damaged in all those scenes. So he was taking precautions but apparently Gemini had the eyes of God or something to where she could see and hear everything, which makes no sense at all.

[Nefla]

Exactly that. Not everything has to be communicated through tech especially since Theron knows the droid is using technology to listen in on everything. I still don't get though how Gemini knew Theron was talking to us on Nathema where there was no tech around us. You could tell that he fried out his implants because they look damaged in all those scenes. So he was taking precautions but apparently Gemini had the eyes of God or something to where she could see and hear everything, which makes no sense at all.

That's ok, neither do the writers -_- The whole magically omniscient droid was one of my biggest problems, it made zero sense and they didn't even attempt to make it believable.

 

This is my thinking too. It made no sense, based on what Tyth says, that Theron could/would be the traitor especially when it's revealed at the end that

Theron had to make his betrayal look real for reasons of Gemini 16 watching and needing to appear authentic in his hatred of you to infiltrate Vinn Atrius's Order of Zildrog. I wonder if the writers re-wrote the story (badly) after Iokath & Umbara because of the furious feedback about yet another betrayal by one of the best characters in the game.

I was wondering that too, like did they originally mean for the betrayal to be real so they could cut yet another companion from our already bone thin roster(and stop paying Troy Baker's salary) and then change their mind after the backlash?

 

Yeah, if ever there was an example of a canonized more progressive Sith, it's Marr. So the entire concept of a more practical and forward-thinking Sith PC is entirely plausible. The Empire needs to change with the times...Marr gets it, our characters can also get it.

 

The marriage thing with Theron I can get why people liked it...but for me it just felt...off. Like we were forcing him and holding that over his head as condition to his forgiveness. I dunno...it just felt like we were proposing to ourselves a bit there. I would have rather seen a proposal spaced out more naturally...one that he arrived at on his own. That being said, I do have characters who took it and some who didn't. I'm not one for saying that marriage needs to happen for a relationship to reach its full potential and/or validation (going on 13 years with my bf), so I'm usually the one that skips that when possible. But, I also know that BioWare is famous for jipping those who do skip marriage out on content (not to mention disappointed and surprised sad puppy face when you say no, but I still love you, babes *sighs*), and I don't want to miss out. As it is, folks who take the proposal do get a significantly longer cutscene with him (case in point).

I agree that the "proposal" was awkward and seemed like our character was needling him into it but at this point I'll take what I can get I really wish the whole thing had been Theron's idea and that he chose to actually propose to our character.

 

 

I must say that from an imperial perspective, this part of Iokath does not shock me that much. I have much bigger issues with what Tyth says about the traitor. It does not make sense as Theron is not betraying for real... (Dialogue below, I'm working on a part on Iokath for my fic so I wrote it down)

 

I am rage. Molten fury. Your god and your destroyer.

I am one of six.

Show me your rage.

You burn with fury. Immolation. Anger. A sacrifice superior.

*I didn't come to be tried and proded.*

You had no choice. You were lured here.

Blinded by duty. Distracted by trust. You did not see the blade to your neck.

The rage in your shadow. The traitor.

You are betrayed.

*blabla Commander. Who would dare turn against me?*

One marked by anger. Pain. Hope eroding.

The betrayer lured you to Iokath. Ignited war. Sparked the engines of rage, envy, passion, hate, sorrow.

The betrayer now offers you. Sacrifice prime. Fuel for the six gods.

*blabla*

There is only rage.

Now you fall and the gods rise.

Yeah, that's why I'm saying it feels like they were making it up as they went along with no plan. The whole thing makes no sense and is completely disjointed and awkward.

[Dracofish]

Exactly that. Not everything has to be communicated through tech especially since Theron knows the droid is using technology to listen in on everything. I still don't get though how Gemini knew Theron was talking to us on Nathema where there was no tech around us. You could tell that he fried out his implants because they look damaged in all those scenes. So he was taking precautions but apparently Gemini had the eyes of God or something to where she could see and hear everything, which makes no sense at all.

 

Yeah, the only thing I can think of is possibly an orbiting satellite that she can control by remote? *shrugs*

 

But I'm just totally trying to muddle some sense out of a story that made pretty much none. I'd really like to know what they were smoking in the storyboard room when they hatched all this...like they were taking bets or something on how much crap they could feed us.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Dracofish

[JennyFlynn]

I believe Tyth is talking about Theron. When Theron betrays he uses similar words on Umbara saying specifically:

 

 

"Luring you into that trap on Iokath was just the beginning.

Ever since we defeated Valkorian, everything i've done has been toward one goal

The total destruction of the Eternal Alliance."

 

And on the listening station we hear Theron say more about what he did on Iokath:

"I also lead the commander into that trap on Iokath. You wouldn't hear me out, so I took matters into my own hands."

 

Nathema: "The tech involved shouldn't be that different from Tyth so I think I can slice into it."

 

 

Also at the end if you shake hands with Theron it says he is filled with "hope" for a better future. That was one of the things Tyth mentions that the betrayer has hope eroding. So I think Theron, in some ways, was speaking the truth about how he felt. He just over exaggerated it to appease the Order.

 

I don't know how because we aren't told this information. But somehow Theron learns everything, doesn't say a darn word to the commander or Lana because of "reasons", then starts a galactic war on purpose, causing the deaths of a lot of people and almost the death of the commander and Lana. Ugh....I am going to stop here because the writing of this just made Theron look like a complete idiot. Sorry....they could have done this so much better.

 

Edited it for spoiler tags.

Yeah, that's a good point but it only adds to the confusion in a way. Whoever Tyth's describing doesn't sound like Theron yet on the train, Theron rehashes some of that dialogue or matches it. Did he hear what Tyth was saying and use it to fuel his own monologue to convince us and the Order? Or did he inject that dialogue into Tyth somehow? I don't think we even know for certain at which point Theron became aware of the Order exactly and which Iokath events he is responsible for, and which were orchestrated by Vinn/The Order and first alerted Theron to the threat.

 

There are just so many question marks about the situation on Iokath, and other parts of the traitor arc, that at best we can only guess and try to fix it with headcanon and fiction. They could and should have done better. I'm fine with the occasional loose end or plot hole to give players room for that HC but this is just poor writing. As if it wasn't bad enough the KOTFE/ET story left so many questions.

[Dracofish]

Yeah, that's a good point but it only adds to the confusion in a way. Whoever Tyth's describing doesn't sound like Theron yet on the train, Theron rehashes some of that dialogue or matches it. Did he hear what Tyth was saying and use it to fuel his own monologue to convince us and the Order? Or did he inject that dialogue into Tyth somehow? I don't think we even know for certain at which point Theron became aware of the Order exactly and which Iokath events he is responsible for, and which were orchestrated by Vinn/The Order and first alerted Theron to the threat.

 

There are just so many question marks about the situation on Iokath, and other parts of the traitor arc, that at best we can only guess and try to fix it with headcanon and fiction. They could and should have done better. I'm fine with the occasional loose end or plot hole to give players room for that HC but this is just poor writing. As if it wasn't bad enough the KOTFE/ET story left so many questions.

 

I still think the easiest connection is that he simply hacked and programmed Tyth to spout off complete nonsense.

 

That's exactly what he could have been doing when you were guarding his butt over the jerkified Iokathian? in the chair.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Dracofish

[JennyFlynn]

I still think the easiest connection is that he simply hacked and programmed Tyth to spout off complete nonsense.

 

That's exactly what he could have been doing when you were guarding his butt over the jerkified Iokathian? in the chair.

Probably the easiest solution to go with yeah. I'm not touching any of that shiz in my writing so I've mostly waved the entire situation off and decided to focus on the only good part, the proposal and pay off in the end.

[Iheaca]

Probably the easiest solution to go with yeah. I'm not touching any of that shiz in my writing so I've mostly waved the entire situation off and decided to focus on the only good part, the proposal and pay off in the end.

Ahah, lucky you. Why did I need all this betrayal stuff in mine when Theron is not even the main character... *sigh*

[JennyFlynn]

Ahah, lucky you. Why did I need all this betrayal stuff in mine when Theron is not even the main character... *sigh*

Yeah, that's a pain. I just found so much 'wrong' with KOTFE/ET that didn't match my headcanons or the story I had for my characters thus far that I ended up taking a lot of liberties. Still, look on the bright side because it'll give Arcann an opportunity to really be there for your Noxxy Nyx, right?

[Eshvara]

I'm really enjoying all these posts and different views of you guys n gals!

^_^

[Iheaca]

Yeah, that's a pain. I just found so much 'wrong' with KOTFE/ET that didn't match my headcanons or the story I had for my characters thus far that I ended up taking a lot of liberties. Still, look on the bright side because it'll give Arcann an opportunity to really be there for your Noxxy Nyx, right?

Hell yeah! Looking forward to be at that point. :o:p

[Dracofish]

Ahah, lucky you. Why did I need all this betrayal stuff in mine when Theron is not even the main character... *sigh*

 

Haha, even though I'm back on Ziost, I'll be at the betrayal at some point. I've already resigned myself to throwing the story they gave us completely out the window...no train being thrown on her head, no shooting...and he will find a way to tell her after he just up and leaves in the middle of the night, so it does turn into a "spy caper" storyline of sorts. I suppose the real fun will be figuring out how to keep them working together on the same page when he's out of contact.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Dracofish

[Swingkittie]

Haha, even though I'm back on Ziost, I'll be at the betrayal at some point. I've already resigned myself to throwing the story they gave us completely out the window...no train being thrown on her head, no shooting...and he will find a way to tell her after he just up and leaves in the middle of the night, so it does turn into a "spy caper" storyline of sorts. I suppose the real fun will be figuring out how to keep them working together on the same page when he's out of contact.

 

When they first released Umbara I had a theory. I think if they wanted Theron to betray us it should have followed a similar pattern to the agent being brainwashed. Maybe not that exact story but in a sense they put in the double agent story for Theron anyway. I would have found it more believable if he was forced to say these things because if he resisted people would die. I forget which Mission Impossible movie, but there was one where Ethan Hunt's partner had something in her head and when she was trying to tell him information it killed her. It's been so long since I saw that movie so the plot is vague to me now, but even something like that would have been more interesting that what we got.

[BlueShiftRecall]

Hi all looking if anyone knows about this, I recently created a new BH and looking at romancing Theron. Is it possible to romance Theron without doing KOTFE/KOTET? I know the romance locks in at KOTFE Chapter 9 but if I don't do that and go straight from SOR/Ziost to Iokath do I miss the romance entirely? I'm thinking I'm going to just do KOTFE Chapter 1-9 to lock in the romance but was curious if you skipped KOTFE/KOTET completely can you still lock the romance in for the marriage after the Nathema FP? Anyone done this? Edited October 28, 2018 by BlueShiftRecall

[Dracofish]

Hi all looking if anyone knows about this, I recently created a new BH and looking at romancing Theron. Is it possible to romance Theron without doing KOTFE/KOTET? I know the romance locks in at KOTFE Chapter 9 but if I don't do that and go straight from SOR/Ziost to Iokath do I miss the romance entirely? I'm thinking I'm going to just do KOTFE Chapter 1-9 to lock in the romance but was curious if you skipped KOTFE/KOTET completely can you still lock the romance in for the marriage after the Nathema FP? Anyone done this?

 

I don't believe it's possible - you have to lock in the romance during FE CH 9 otherwise the flags won't exist when you start the traitor arc.

 

What you engage with him during SOR/Ziost pretty much doesn't count, short of granting you a letter when you start Fallen Empire.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Dracofish

[BlueShiftRecall]

So now that we're getting closer to December and 5.10 how much Theron (and Lana to I suppose) do you think we'll be seeing story wise in this update and in the future?

[JakRoanin]

So after a LONG and arduous decision process I rolled a Fem Cyborg BH LS to romance the Spy-boy and its really good. I didn't want a Force Sensitive because I believe Theron is a little disappointed he isn't. I didn't want someone politically motivated in either direction. She's a Mandalorian, and she lives by her own terms. They really mesh well, this is fun.

[bluehufsa]

So now that we're getting closer to December and 5.10 how much Theron (and Lana to I suppose) do you think we'll be seeing story wise in this update and in the future?

 

I don't think Theron will appear anymore, since he is both dead and alive. Lana, on the other hand, will probably become our main companion in 5.10 & 6.0.

[Paziqi]

So now that we're getting closer to December and 5.10 how much Theron (and Lana to I suppose) do you think we'll be seeing story wise in this update and in the future?

 

Charles made mention on twitter about Theron and Lana's future appearances here. Going off of that, I would expect to see both of them in future content, but not much of them.

[Lunafox]

So now that we're getting closer to December and 5.10 how much Theron (and Lana to I suppose) do you think we'll be seeing story wise in this update and in the future?

 

Maybe a line or two if we're lucky. I think they'll be focussing on the new characters they're introducing, unfortunately.

[Paulsutherland]

Probably about the same as Kaylio and Aric got during KOTET.

[JakRoanin]

I'm hoping in 6.0 all the Comps and LI's we end up with have story lines like in the Vanilla. "You can say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

[Nefla]

Maybe a line or two if we're lucky. I think they'll be focussing on the new characters they're introducing, unfortunately.

 

Agreed and then once we get attached to the new characters they'll give them a kill option and write them out of the story too.

[sauceemynx]

I hope Theron's involvement is more than they make it sound, but I'm not expecting much. I suppose we've been lucky to have him be such a major part of the story for so long. It will be weird, though, to have him & Lana become just a part of the background (if that is indeed essentially what happens)--like losing old friends. But who knows. Maybe the new LIs will be so exciting it will help minimize the pain, not that we know for certain who the new male LIs will be. Or do we? I've only heard about Nadia and Jaesa.