Game Update 5.4a

[DarthSpuds]

Yeah.. there was no server downtime yesterday.. for hours. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

Don't be obtuse.

 

The server outage was NOT caused by an issue dependent on the Server providers - that would be a hardware issue.

 

Keith and Eric have already explained that what happened was a SOFTWARE issue.

 

No amount of rolleyes will make you right, or clever.

 

All The Best

[Andryah]

Don't be obtuse.

 

The server outage was NOT caused by an issue dependent on the Server providers - that would be a hardware issue.

 

Keith and Eric have already explained that what happened was a SOFTWARE issue.

 

No amount of rolleyes will make you right, or clever.

 

All The Best

 

LMAO at the irony here.

 

Were the servers available at all to players? NO

 

Was there a clear ETA on when they would be back up (which is the most common event when they go down or are taken down because they are squirrel infested)? NO

 

Did it interrupt access for all players world wide for hours? YES.

 

Oh I get it.. it was not a crisis.. just a petty inconvenience due to code issues (something that you do not actually know by the way). LMAO.

 

I will give you credit though... for being the currently most negative and pejorative subscriber continuing to subscribe to an MMO that you have absolutely nothing good to say about it. Yeah.. that shows good judgment and analysis skills. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

**** It is clear to me why you cannot distinguish cause and effect in your efforts to prosecute your negative narratives about the game.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Andryah

[DarthSpuds]

 

Were the servers available at all to players? NO

 

The servers were technically available.

 

However the program running on them was so boked Bioware CHOSE to take the servers offline.

 

Thus the issue was NOT servers (hardware), but software.

 

If your car runs out of petrol, you don't complain that the engine is faulty, do you? Maybe you do.

 

All The Best

[Qouivandes]

Hooper: [trying to get the fishing line secure] It may be a marlin or a stingray... but it's definitely a game fish.

[Hooper pulls as the lines snaps and he crashes his head into the wall]

Quint: [picking up the line] Gamin' fish, eh? Marlin? Stingray? Bit through this piano wire? Don't you tell me my business again! You get back on the bridge...

Hooper: Quint, that doesn't prove a damn thing!

Quint: Well it proves one thing, Mr. Hooper. It proves that you wealthy college boys don't have the education enough to admit when you're wrong.

[Quint enters the cabin as Hooper makes faces at him]

 

for some reason this scene popped up while reading the latest exchange.

[Dak_fireraker]

Hey everyone,

 

I want to start by apologizing for the unexpected and prolonged downtime today. This isn’t something we ever want to happen, but when it does, we take it seriously and do everything we can to resolve the issue or issues. We are adding additional processes to try and prevent this particular situation from happening again. Here’s essentially what took place today and what’s behind the long downtime:

 

What happened? Wasn’t this tested?

The issues we encountered were fairly complex, and having more than one just made things complicated. The first problem was the patch for our BitRaider and SSN launchers were inconsistent and ended up causing different issues after we took the servers out of maintenance. As a result, some of you actually received a game patch, while others didn’t get anything. You’d think we would catch that in our normal tests, but it was an oversight in our process which we have since corrected. The big issue was part of the patch that should have been included was missing data, so it was pulling information from 5.4 instead of 5.4a. The net result was a variety of issues – including some of the patch changes didn’t seem like they were deployed.

 

Although we extensively test all of our updates at all stages of the process, the missing parts just caused enough oddball problems, we had to take the game down again to figure out what was going on. In reality, had I been a little more patient, we would have caught the issues beforehand, yet the long downtime would not have been avoided. In addition, not everything we had planned to fix is actually included. For example, we have resolved the exploit with the Umbara Stronghold, but it didn’t make it in the 5.4a patch. Therefore, we have our normal infrastructure maintenance planned for next Wednesday, so our current plan is to deploy the change at that time. We implore you to not participate in this exploit as we don’t want any further disruptions in your game play.

 

Players lost time today, especially in the EU, is anything being done?

Losing playtime is always painful, especially when there is a “double” event running and Dailies awarding crazy high CXP. I’m kicking around a variety of options with the team, as we want to apologize and reward your patience. Some of you have asked to have our Double XP/CXP event extended and others have asked us to keep the current CXP amounts for the Daily Areas. Others have asked for different compensation, and we’re looking at all options as the last couple weeks have been tough on all of us. We’ll lock down what exactly we’re doing and let you know in the coming days.

 

Again, thank you all for your patience today.

 

--Keith-

 

 

The Culprits for the update issues were found!! It was sabotaged by Eric & Charles so they could get out of attending the Badfeeling Buvette on Belsavis.

 

I hear Chuck & Brian are devastated.

[kodrac]

The servers were technically available.

 

However the program running on them was so boked Bioware CHOSE to take the servers offline.

 

Thus the issue was NOT servers (hardware), but software.

 

If your car runs out of petrol, you don't complain that the engine is faulty, do you? Maybe you do.

 

All The Best

 

Semantics. The severs were down for .... REASONS. Does it really matter how/why? No - down is down. Your posts have become increasingly bitter and tinfoilish. Perhaps the servers being down would've been a good time/reason for you to step away for a bit.

[VirtualMorrigan]

Semantics. The severs were down for .... REASONS. Does it really matter how/why? No - down is down. Your posts have become increasingly bitter and tinfoilish. Perhaps the servers being down would've been a good time/reason for you to step away for a bit.

 

I believe you are completely missing his point. As does Andryah, though he of course does that on purpose as usual, and pretends for the sake of argument that he suddenly doesn't understand the difference between application and infrastructure.

 

DarthSpuds's point is that it wasn't some server failure that is something that can happen out of the blue due to some piece of hardware croaking, and even bite you when you think you have all the infrastructure set up redundantly. He meant that the downtime was simply a failed patch of the software itself, which was pretty much communicated that way as well. But to spell it out to you: Software developer error, not sysadmin/infrastructure error. Different layer.

[kodrac]

I believe you are completely missing his point.

 

Nope. Though I believe you missed mine.

 

But to spell it out to you: Software developer error, not sysadmin/infrastructure error. Different layer.

 

But to spell it out for you, again: Down is down. Who cares why. Oops or incompetence is irrelevant semantics. Either way no one's accessing it until it's resolved. Which it is now. So you can all stop crying over spilled milk now.

[VirtualMorrigan]

But to spell it out for you, again: Down is down. Who cares why. Oops or incompetence is irrelevant semantics. Either way no one's accessing it until it's resolved. Which it is now. So you can all stop crying over spilled milk now.

 

No need to give me that attitude. If your world view is that simple, good for you. Someone who works in IT will think differently about an outage due to infra failure as opposed to software failure.

 

And relax. No one is crying.

[Qouivandes]

Some folks do not see it as semantics even if you do. To some using the applicable terms are unavoidable. I live in a world where there is a difference between x and y issues. They may be under the same umbrella, but i see the difference. So much so that it can annoy my wife and kids when i delve into the specifics of a solution.

 

I have no idea if this observation is applicable to spuds or not, but, for myself i didnt see it as a server issue; once they gave the cause...it was a coding error.

 

I tend to be a rather patient person, now, so i wasnt bothered one way or the other. i more enjoyed the circus it created.

[Amantionus]

Maybe it was my tine in the Navy, maybe I am OCD, maybe I just have a thing for accuracy... But I see a clear difference between "server down" and "we borked the patch and had to start over".

 

In my Navy days, I worked on nuclear reactors. There is a huge difference between say "the reactor SCRAM'd because of supercritical conditions" and "we shut down the reactor because the water chemistry was completely out of specification".

 

Now, I coach football and substitute teach. There is a massive difference between, "our offensive system is so simple anyone can defend it" (a coaching problem, you picked the wrong offense to run) and "our left guard and tackle rest every other play and do not block their assignments" (a player issue). Same in teaching... "I failed to explain to the students how to solve this type of problem correctly" (teacher at fault) is not the same as "everyone except little Johnny is able to solve this type of problem" (Johnny doesn't "get it", a student problem).

 

In the Navy example, a Reactor SCRAM is a hardware issue, something is wrong with the reactor itself...but the chemistry related shutdown is an operator error. In the football example, the first is a coaching (system) problem, the second is a player (implementation) problem. In the teaching example the first is a teaching methodology problem while the second is a problem with an individual student (some kids learn differently or just are not as smart as others).

 

See, the result may be the same (reactor shutdown, games lost, student fails a test), but the cause is different. That is an important distinction.

[Costello]

Completely out of context to the discussion here. What happened yesterday has absolutely nothing to do with the state of the game looking forward.

 

Sorry.. but you are running a classic drive by non sequitur here.

 

Of course the state of the game is relevant here.

 

The mess up with the patching requiring the servers to be taken down while they fixed the patch is one in a long line of issues the game has suffered through in the last 6 months.

 

The situation is getting so bad that there is almost a fortnightly apology thread from Eric or Keith, whether its that they reset conquest which in their own words wasn't good enough, to delaying the role out of a patch because it doesn't meet their standards only for it to be bug ridden or allow for people to use a guild port to avoid needing to run a flashpoint 10 or so times. Though the apology threads don't even touch on all the issues, though I suspect that is for the best as we would be inundated with 'this really isn't good enough and we will do better' for all content, hell one of the things people have liked the most the increased CXP is a bug they tried to fix and couldn't.

 

Hell if it wasn't crazy you would almost think Ben is hiding in the building sabotaging the game to teach Keith a lesson for stealing his job. Sadly I can't think of anything that has been released on time or working as intended for the last 6 months. While the idea some gimmick of some ugly pet or speeder or some double xp event will make it seem like the game is really healthy and putting out a triple A quality service.

 

What is irrelevant to the discussion is going through any posts you don't like and claiming they are not on topic or attacking the poster for being negative. Instead of claiming others are wrong why don't you post something positive about the game or the experience with some fact behind it without claiming anyone else is wrong or irrelevant. Where things have gone well, what you hope to see replicated or how enjoyable end game is now with the class balances.

[Irishdeath]

Is anyone else having trouble with the launcher saying "This application has encountered an unspecified error. Please try this patch again" and if so is there a way to implement the repair function as its not a highlight-able option .

[Amantionus]

I have to agree with Costello.

 

The "state of the game" is highly relevant. Faulty patches and unscheduled downtimes of great length directly impact the state of the game. They clearly impact playability (you can't play if the servers are down to rework a patch). Such incidents also reflect on the future condition of the game. History may not be always indicative of future performance, but it is the standard gauge and is often accurate. A program (any kind of program, not just computer programs) with a history of problems is likely to have more problems in the future. If history shows the frequency and severity of problems are decreasing, then the program should improve in the future...if the frequency and severity of problems is increasing then the program is likely to continue to develop more and worse problems going forward.

 

To borrow a line from Sgt. Bilko, "Nine years without a single successful test? That's not a slump, Colonel,; that's a tradition". The same process applies to any program or endeavor. A long history of problems or failures will cause people to expect more problems and failures in the future.

 

Now, I have missed out on SWTOR for a while, just recently resubbed. I don't know much beyond the distant past and the very recent history. Maybe this is a slump. Maybe they have been doing well most of the time... But I left when I started dealing with what seemed to be excessive in game issues (and a slow internet connection). I returned, coped with the slow connection, did a massive amount of updating, and found many of my past issues had been corrected. It looked good, I sent in a payment... Then, less than 24 hours later, this "incident". I am obviously not amused. It reminds me of the distant past. I am sitting here, watching my painfully slow download sit at 90.19%, it has moved an entire 0.15% in the last 30 minutes. It makes me wonder if the game is being improved or if we are just seeing bandaids slapped onto a sucking chest would and a severed femoral artery.

 

I'll finish the update, then see what has changed... Hopefully for the better, or at lest not for the worse. But the state of the game seems to be one of carelessness and neglect in many respects. That does not bode well for the future when viewed in the light of past history.

[MandFlurry]

Is anyone else having trouble with the launcher saying "This application has encountered an unspecified error. Please try this patch again" and if so is there a way to implement the repair function as its not a highlight-able option .

 

That a Bitraider, a stupid Bioware program for downloading and streaming. I'll try and get you a Fix Link.

 

Here's the Fix for crabby Bitraider

http://answers.ea.com/t5/STAR-WARS-The-Old-Republic/Guide-How-to-Switch-to-Non-Streaming-Launcher/m-p/4867417#M1564

Edited September 1, 2017 by MandFlurry

[kodrac]

No need to give me that attitude. If your world view is that simple, good for you. Someone who works in IT will think differently about an outage due to infra failure as opposed to software failure.

 

And relax. No one is crying.

 

I do work in IT. Sure, maybe Darth All The Best Spuds works in IT too and wants to argue about why there's an outage. Knowing why is irrelevant. An outage is an outage. Unless you're the one fixing it the why is unimportant. Knowing why doesn't get you anything. It's cute he thinks he has any control. It's just being unnecessarily argumentative. It comes down to arguing just because he's resentful.

 

i.e. Power is out because... lightning strike = someone crashed their car into a pole = Homer Simpson fell asleep at the controls. End result in all three of those scenarios is the power is out. I get mad when the power is out but being pissed gets me nowhere. Patience is all that really matters on our end.

[Ibokagain]

No they didn't.

 

A "server crisis" would be an issue with an external cause, because Bioware pay a third party to host the servers.

 

They had programming crisis - and that has an internal cause - Bioware incompetence.

 

4/10 for the White Knight effort.

0/10 for effectiveness though.

 

 

All The Best

 

Exactly it was a programming crisis especially in regards to testing well said.

[Ibokagain]

Nope. Though I believe you missed mine.

 

 

 

But to spell it out for you, again: Down is down. Who cares why. Oops or incompetence is irrelevant semantics. Either way no one's accessing it until it's resolved. Which it is now. So you can all stop crying over spilled milk now.

 

I along with many others care.

 

When the issue is with hardware as Spuds, VirtMorgan and myself have stated it can be completely out of your control.

 

When the issue is software especially doing patch (UPDATES) you have much more control especially if you properly QA Test them. In this case there testing if any was truly done prior to releasing it live on servers needs to be addressed and corrected.

[Amantionus]

I along with many others care.

 

When the issue is with hardware as Spuds, VirtMorgan and myself have stated it can be completely out of your control.

 

When the issue is software especially doing patch (UPDATES) you have much more control especially if you properly QA Test them. In this case there testing if any was truly done prior to releasing it live on servers needs to be addressed and corrected.

 

This right here. When it is your problem, meaning the cause is you, then you can prevent or at least minimize the the chances of the problem happening again in the future. When it is a problem from some other source that is completely outside your control, it is a different matter.

 

Now, it may not have much relevance to us players as individuals. But establishing the source of the problem is something the customer should do. We don't need to know that it was this one line of code with an extra character in it or anything like that... But, a responsible consumer finds out if the problem with the product/service they are paying for is due to the people that provide the product/service or if it is due to some outside source.

 

This time the problem appears to have been in house. In the form of either improper coding, improper implementation and/or improper QA measures. If that is the case, then EA/BW need to take a close look at their personnel and procedures to prevent or minimize the likelihood of similar events going forward. As consumers, we need to note that the problem was in house and see if corrective measures are taken. If they are not, then we, as consumers need to reevaluate our position. Is the product still a good value for the money, are we willing to accept the evident poor practices involved, is there an alternative product, etc. etc. etc.

 

We do not need to know the very detailed matters of the fault. Only if it originated with EA/BW or elsewhere and go from there.

[DarthSpuds]

I do work in IT. Sure, maybe Darth All The Best Spuds works in IT too and wants to argue about why there's an outage. Knowing why is irrelevant.

 

I don't now work in IT; I now work in an industry where getting it "right, on time, first time, every time" is the minimum standard expected.

 

I have worked in IT - fault finding, bug testing and writing up end user documentation like EULAs and Instruction Manuals.

 

Where I take issue is with your "knowing why is irrelevant" - not it isn't. Knowing "why" is the first step on knowing how to fix it.

 

If you don't know why it's broke you have halved your chances of correctly rectifying the issue.

 

All The Best

[MeNaCe-NZ]

You seem completly incapable of understanding the basic fact that there's an entire middle/gray area or range when discussing any topic possible. That includes Slot Machine too, being opposed to an over-the-top nerf that makes the machine useless and benefits only you and other Cartel whales (for a time that is) doesn't automatically equal wanting the CSM to remain un-nerfed at all or thinking that the original drop ratios were perfectly fine and shouldn't be touched at all.

 

Firstly are you implying I asked for the CSM to be nerfed as much as it was? If so I challenge you to find ONE quote where I asked for the CSM to be nerfed as much as it was.

 

If not, and all I was arguing was that it needed to be nerfed, and you now almost implying you too thought it was over powered you are effectively agreeing with the stance I took i.e. it was over powered.

 

So no matter how much you squirm your argument and finger pointing here has utterly fallen flat ... GG.

 

But I guess I shouldn't be surprised, it fits your discussion style too, you only seem to understand the extremes and black & white perception. Going into any topic possible, fishing for arguments and throwing personal jabs any chance you get is your style after all, no discussion exists for you that's in the middle-zone. The only one who embarasses themselves daily on the forums is you and your posts

 

So nothing of substance? No counter arguments? Nothing to actually defend yourself from looking foolish as per my previous post (or this one)? Nope ... seems not.

 

Come back when you have something of more substance than "I know you are, you said you are so what am I?"

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I think the very reason people play these types of games is to step away from reality for a little while.

 

As I said earlier IF Bioware knew it had employes suffering extra/excess stress because of H-Harvey then EXTRA testing should have been done just to make double sure all the i's were dotted and the t's were crossed.

 

All The Best

 

Perhaps indeed it should have but fact is it was not, stress does strange things to people.

In any case one would hope they learn from their lessons to avoid it again in the future but tha'ts providing they can get past the lynch mob of niche players that have suddenly found a voice on the forums (yet are nowhere to be seen when it's constructive feedback that is requested).

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Just for the record "apologising" for something only means anything if you then commit not to do it again.

 

Under Keith's stewardship we've already had several server issues and "unexpected down times" that he apologised for.

 

And yesterday we had YET ANOTHER unexpected downtime, for which we got what is in effect an empty, meaningless apology; because Bioware have clearly made no effort whatsoever to improve things.

 

All The Best

 

You should like actually take a stance with all these negative posts you make day in and day out ... you know like unsubscribing.

Maybe you've already done this but otherwise your general tone just comes across as being negative for the sake of being negative as opposed to actually want to effect any change or supporting some set of morals you might have that you feel this games management is imposing on (that's the impression you give to me at least though I honestly think at this stage the troll comment mentioned by others in the past is much closer to the truth).

[DarthSpuds]

You should like actually take a stance with all these negative posts you make day in and day out ... you know like unsubscribing. .

 

Read my sig, sub expires soon.

 

All The Best

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Read my sig, sub expires soon.

 

All The Best

 

Ah well, as you say - all the best.

 

See when you get back, hopefully with a more positive attitude.