Why Was Oricon Never Made Solo-Friendly?

[Ahbal]

Finding just the right guild can be really, really hard and frustrating. I lucked out big time finding mine and don't think I'm not totally aware of that. Some VM are not that awful, some are rough (for me anyway) so it's been a matter of "what the hell, might as well try". Have to be in the right frame of mind though because sometimes the beatdown is truly spectacular.

 

 

 

When I was playing DAoC I had the WORST connection (bite me Sprint) and that's where I learned it was just easier and kinder to stay to myself. This, of course, didn't work after a certain point in DAoC due to the game's goals. As for not being interested...it's more due to the complications than not wanting to run them. If my guild were to all of a sudden decide to hare off and do a few OPs, I'd tag along because they know me and know my quirks.

 

Given this thread I might ask around and see how many of us are lacking the OP that started this all and see if we might give it some thought. If I'm not pelted with virtual-veggies, who knows. Still want warning on quest lines about this sort of thing though.

 

It is hard and frustrating, especially on a declining server (server merge is needed imo). Also, I forgot to mention this before but yes, I like your idea of a quest line telling you it involves an operation. As it makes sense that investing into a story only to stop during an OP is jarring (this was my problem when I was F2P). Its good to hear that your guild is like that, reminds me of the old guilds I was in until they died off.

 

VM sounds fun, hopefully I can get back into the group content of this game (timezone and server pop willing of course).

[DieAlteHexe]

And there is story for each. I am not a hard core raider mind you. I have ZERO NiM and few HM cheevs. You are saying that there's no room in your world for Op based story. This is the flaw in your argument. The writers felt otherwise. They won't go back and add to an old expac. You simply need to accept this and move on. If you want the story, take 2 hours out of your life and do an op. I promise it really won't kill you.

 

I can accept this (obviously I have) but can't I grouse about it just a little? I mean everyone else around here *****es and moans about stuff. Just some warning is all I ask and then I can not bother taking the quest line and having an annoying quest stuck in my log, glaring at me, taunting me, being intrusive and evil,

[Ylliarus]

And there is story for each. I am not a hard core raider mind you. I have ZERO NiM and few HM cheevs. You are saying that there's no room in your world for Op based story. This is the flaw in your argument. The writers felt otherwise. They won't go back and add to an old expac. You simply need to accept this and move on. If you want the story, take 2 hours out of your life and do an op. I promise it really won't kill you.

 

Again, you mistake my requests as not being able to do the operations due to skill. A wrongful assumption about solo players. It's not my skill that is the issue or having it be a challenge. I love challenges, I really do. What I don't like is people reacting toxic and immature when something doesn't succeed in the first run. I don't like to have to deal with toxic people in my freetime or playtime, have to do that enough in real life. Since in my experience operations have been full of those kinds of people (maybe I was just unlucky the times I tried operations), either responding in a vile way to others or me, then I stay clear from it. Don't need to be burned twice from the same thing.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Ylliarus]

Yes thats pretty much it. Another thing that your post reminded me of is proving grounds. We need some sort of step up from solo (no FPs or uprisings) that teach solo players or smaller group content players new mechanics only found in Ops. Why? Because in OPs these are the players who are on the receiving end of toxicity. Now, toxicitity occurs due to frustration most of the time from my experience (players who have gear ten levels below the OP.....wasting everyones time...) but you also have genuine toxicity as I hinted at above somewhere in response to another member here. I believe this will be reduced if players transitioning to OPs from solo or FP/Uprisings have a proving ground mission they must complete once (on their legacy) to be allowed into ops. Same thing goes with gear. This will definitely encourage me to finally hit that group finder button once again, as even with FPs I find players who respectively ruin the experience, even on very easy tactical FPs. This occurence increased greatly after shadow of revan due to how easy it was. There must be a barrier, a proving ground, to ensure players can handle this content to avoid problems. Might have gone off topic a bit but its related to the solo content. As players complete the solo content then go to group stuff which is wayy harder, and wont adapt to or listen to veteran players advice.

 

e.g As a tank...many, many times. I explain to the DPS they need to agro dump/let me attack first to pull....but they dont listen. They then blame me....Toxicity comes from both sides is what Im getting at. Again, not trying to be "hostile" but thats my group content experience after SoR.

 

I really like this idea. It would be a great way for new players to acquaint themselves with operations and how they work. In that regard I think a sort of proving grounds would be a very interesting thing to add.

 

As to it being a solution for toxicity in operations, I don't think it would solve that. Often indeed what you say is the cause for frustration and in turn toxicity (although nothing is ever a pretext for toxic behaviour), yet too often people are toxic to one another even if things are going well and no wipes occur. People start deriding one another for the way their characters look, to name an example. One of the few times I did an operation there was a person who did everything well, knew their rotations and class, yet they wore an outfit with the black and dark purple dye. Literally one of the group members started calling them "f.aggot" and enticing other members of the group saying things along the lines of "look how gay he looks, omg loser" because purple was a gay colour according to them... That was the moment that person left the group as well as me, for which I got some very warm and nice whispers... so, while I think proving grounds would be an amazing idea that really is worth implementing, it won't solve the issue of toxicity I am afraid.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Ahbal]

I really like this idea. It would be a great way for new players to acquaint themselves with operations and how they work. In that regard I think a sort of proving grounds would be a very interesting thing to add.

 

As to it being a solution for toxicity in operations, I don't think it would solve that. Often indeed what you say is the cause for frustration and in turn toxicity (although nothing is ever a pretext for toxic behaviour), yet too often people are toxic to one another even if things are going well and no wipes occur. People start deriding one another for the way their characters look, to name an example. One of the few times I did an operation there was a person who did everything well, knew their rotations and class, yet they wore an outfit with the black and dark purple dye. Literally one of the group members started calling them "f.aggot" and enticing other members of the group saying things along the lines of "look how gay he looks, omg loser" because purple was a gay colour according to them... That was the moment that person left the group as well as me, for which I got some very warm and nice whispers... so, while I think proving grounds would be an amazing idea that really is worth implementing, it won't solve the issue of toxicity I am afraid.

 

Oh wow. Ive never encountered people who say things based on characters looks. I gave this idea as ive never had issues when things were going smoothly hence why I thought my idea would help it, seems thats not the case. I honestly had no idea it was that bad. Never have I heard of something based on an outfit....black and purple looks awesome btw...insulting purple makes no sense either...as many sith use purple light sabers?? Clearly no logic to such people

 

That being said, I still think it will atleast increase group finder pops and success rates due to the proving grounds being a "filter" of a kind. Should add it can only be attempted solo, to avoid them being carried. Also, what I meant in terms of frustration and toxicity is this:

 

Players have a limited time to do an OP (RL commitments). There is a team mate with too weak gear (happened in my first ever run of DP). Half the team wants to carry whilst the other half knows its fruitless. Wipe after wipe, the tension grows leading to anger within the group. Things like this. Toxicity is probably the wrong term then?

[Ylliarus]

Oh wow. Ive never encountered people who say things based on characters looks. I gave this idea as ive never had issues when things were going smoothly hence why I thought my idea would help it, seems thats not the case. I honestly had no idea it was that bad. Never have I heard of something based on an outfit....black and purple looks awesome btw...insulting purple makes no sense either...as many sith use purple light sabers?? Clearly no logic to such people

 

That being said, I still think it will atleast increase group finder pops and success rates due to the proving grounds being a "filter" of a kind. Should add it can only be attempted solo, to avoid them being carried. Also, what I meant in terms of frustration and toxicity is this:

 

Players have a limited time to do an OP (RL commitments). There is a team mate with too weak gear (happened in my first ever run of DP). Half the team wants to carry whilst the other half knows its fruitless. Wipe after wipe, the tension grows leading to anger within the group. Things like this. Toxicity is probably the wrong term then?

 

No, no, you can still call it toxic behaviour albeit coming from a different source. But toxicity coming from frustration is something I can understand to a point, because in flashpoints or PvP you have enough people who don't know entirely how to do stuff and I myself have experienced I start rolling my eyes from behind my screen. However, the art is to stay kind and patient, which is why I always state at the end of warzones my teams lost "ah well, better next time guys!". But the frustration is something that could be helped by proving grounds where players can go and get the hang of the basics of operations. You could even make it a Introduction mission like with warzones, group finder and conquests. That way you'll force the players to at least go there once.

 

But as to toxicity coming from things like the case I described, I have no idea how to solve that. Reasoning with them got me even more insulted in whispers after that, so you can't rationally talk to such people I learned from my own experience. Reporting doesn't do much except getting an automatic response from a bot from customer service, they may get a warning but that doesn't stop them from repeating toxic behaviour. So unless they find a cure for being an a-hole... I have no idea what to do except ignore such people. Which is the very reason why I steer clear from raids because whenever I reconsider my stance on doing operations I remember that moment and a few of the other times I tried raids, my consideration of trying them again quickly disappearing.

[DieAlteHexe]

Add in another two things that will cause issues for some;

 

1. Being female, although that has lessened considerably in the past couple years. The assumption is still there, for too many, that we somehow aren't real gamers. Feh.

 

2. Being "too old". This one does have some merit as my twitch-factor has gone down a great deal due to "old bones". But that's not the objection, I guess, it's just that "old people don't know how to play".

 

Water off a duck with me but I have some friends who are upset by this sort of behaviour and it causes them to keep even more to themselves and not tell people anything about themselves.

[rantboi]

But as to toxicity coming from things like the case I described, I have no idea how to solve that. Reasoning with them got me even more insulted in whispers after that, so you can't rationally talk to such people I learned from my own experience. Reporting doesn't do much except getting an automatic response from a bot from customer service, they may get a warning but that doesn't stop them from repeating toxic behaviour. So unless they find a cure for being an a-hole... I have no idea what to do except ignore such people. Which is the very reason why I steer clear from raids because whenever I reconsider my stance on doing operations I remember that moment and a few of the other times I tried raids, my consideration of trying them again quickly disappearing.

 

my solution to that has worked pretty well. just kick and ignore the people who are being ******es.

[Ahbal]

No, no, you can still call it toxic behaviour albeit coming from a different source. But toxicity coming from frustration is something I can understand to a point, because in flashpoints or PvP you have enough people who don't know entirely how to do stuff and I myself have experienced I start rolling my eyes from behind my screen. However, the art is to stay kind and patient, which is why I always state at the end of warzones my teams lost "ah well, better next time guys!". But the frustration is something that could be helped by proving grounds where players can go and get the hang of the basics of operations. You could even make it a Introduction mission like with warzones, group finder and conquests. That way you'll force the players to at least go there once.

 

But as to toxicity coming from things like the case I described, I have no idea how to solve that. Reasoning with them got me even more insulted in whispers after that, so you can't rationally talk to such people I learned from my own experience. Reporting doesn't do much except getting an automatic response from a bot from customer service, they may get a warning but that doesn't stop them from repeating toxic behaviour. So unless they find a cure for being an a-hole... I have no idea what to do except ignore such people. Which is the very reason why I steer clear from raids because whenever I reconsider my stance on doing operations I remember that moment and a few of the other times I tried raids, my consideration of trying them again quickly disappearing.

 

Ok, that makes sense. Frustration is definitely a factor but as we discussed there are people who cant be reasoned with.

 

On your second point, I agree. Fixing this kind of problem is hard, but it can be avoided by sticking with guilds (like I did). However, again low pop servers make this worse.

[Ylliarus]

my solution to that has worked pretty well. just kick and ignore the people who are being ******es.

 

Sadly that won't work if the ops leader joins in with it... as was the case with my group back then in that example. But otherwise it's one of the only things you could do but players can get even more toxic if they are kicked I am afraid.

 

Add in another two things that will cause issues for some;

 

1. Being female, although that has lessened considerably in the past couple years. The assumption is still there, for too many, that we somehow aren't real gamers. Feh.

 

2. Being "too old". This one does have some merit as my twitch-factor has gone down a great deal due to "old bones". But that's not the objection, I guess, it's just that "old people don't know how to play".

 

Water off a duck with me but I have some friends who are upset by this sort of behaviour and it causes them to keep even more to themselves and not tell people anything about themselves.

 

Yeah sadly those are things that I still see happening in the game. The female point not being as severe as it used to be mainly due to female streamers and YouTubers like Swtorista and others, but it still happens to my grief. I haven't heard things about being too old but I can definitely without a doubt believe that's happening as well. You're never too old to play a game and more often than not those are the gaming veterans who'd own young players if it ever came to it

 

Ok, that makes sense. Frustration is definitely a factor but as we discussed there are people who cant be reasoned with.

 

On your second point, I agree. Fixing this kind of problem is hard, but it can be avoided by sticking with guilds (like I did). However, again low pop servers make this worse.

 

Which is very much why I am a strong supporter of megaservers, those would boost the activity in the game by tenfold if not more. It would also make the game more appealing to newer players who'd see "hey this is an alive and active game!". Or if not megaservers, although I'd consider that to be the best option, then server merges, lots and lots of them.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Ylliarus

[DieAlteHexe]

...

 

Yeah sadly those are things that I still see happening in the game. The female point not being as severe as it used to be mainly due to female streamers and YouTubers like Swtorista and others, but it still happens to my grief. I haven't heard things about being too old but I can definitely without a doubt believe that's happening as well. You're never too old to play a game and more often than not those are the gaming veterans who'd own young players if it ever came to it

 

I like to ask them who they think invented video gaming? What generation? And then follow that up by asking at what age they plan to stop gaming. Usually that shuts 'em up.

 

Both the "female" and the "too old" usually only come up if you're chatting with folks. I tend not to volunteer it unless it's to new guildies or someone that has the potential to be a friend/new guildie.

 

 

Which is very much why I am a strong supporter of megaservers, those would boost the activity in the game by tenfold if not more. It would also make the game more appealing to newer players who'd see "hey this is an alive and active game!". Or if not megaservers, although I'd consider that to be the best option, then server merges, lots and lots of them.

 

I'm a bit leery about megaservers, though not from the population aspect. That wouldn't be overmuch of an issue in this game (although gawd help those trying to do Face Merchants LOL) but I would have concerns about traffic/load issues. Server merges are problematic from the POV of names which we can get very, very attached to. I learned, though, to come up with some really oddball names that almost always are free plus no one else in their right mind would want them (yaaaay old Anglo-Saxon names!). I learned to do this after getting screwed over too many times in previous MMOs when servers got merged.

[Ylliarus]

I'm a bit leery about megaservers, though not from the population aspect. That wouldn't be overmuch of an issue in this game (although gawd help those trying to do Face Merchants LOL) but I would have concerns about traffic/load issues. Server merges are problematic from the POV of names which we can get very, very attached to. I learned, though, to come up with some really oddball names that almost always are free plus no one else in their right mind would want them (yaaaay old Anglo-Saxon names!). I learned to do this after getting screwed over too many times in previous MMOs when servers got merged.

 

Yeah I definitely do get that so I only want server merges when the devs can assure us they solved all technical issues with it such as double names, guilds, guild assets, guild ships, strongholds, legacies and so on. Only then would I accept server merges, naturally. But from what I read from Keith's posts they are working hard on solving those problems

[DieAlteHexe]

Yeah I definitely do get that so I only want server merges when the devs can assure us they solved all technical issues with it such as double names, guilds, guild assets, guild ships, strongholds, legacies and so on. Only then would I accept server merges, naturally. But from what I read from Keith's posts they are working hard on solving those problems

 

I'd be nervous because I've had some really nasty experiences in the past with mergers but if it worked out without some of the bizarre things that happened back then, I'm good with it.

[Ylliarus]

I'd be nervous because I've had some really nasty experiences in the past with mergers but if it worked out without some of the bizarre things that happened back then, I'm good with it.

 

I can definitely imagine, I've never been in a server merge but I can only picture what difficulties and problems it can bring around. Which is why I am very hopeful with the posts from the devs that they are actively seeking ways to remedy these issues in a potential server merge. They most certainly are aware of the issues and will not resort to implementing any changes before the have a 100% guarantee everything will go right.

 

But it would definitely boost the populations on the servers, which in turn would bring more people together to do dailies. It would the perfect opportunity along with CXP boosts to implement a solo alternative for the Oricon arc. Since they would be reviewing older content anyway then, as Keith's latest post about the CXP boost bug and the fact people en masse return to do that older content, shows they'll be considering changes and revisions of it.

 

This is Keith's post on the subject:

 

Hey all,

 

When I found out about the substantially increased CXP in the daily areas I had to go check if it was real. So, I tested it on my main characters, and validated it across a variety of other characters, and sure enough, it was true. I even used the CXP Perk, and the CXP 100% boost, just to see how much I could get on each quest.

 

Then, realizing we needed to stay indoors for the weekend, I decided to see how many Command Ranks I could gain on just one toon, by doing all the Daily Areas each day, along with daily FPs, and other normal activities. I managed to gain 200 levels and to echo a lot of your comments here, it was fun to see so many others on Yavin, in Black Hole, over on Iokath and Section X. I also did Oricon and had forgotten how fun those quests were to do, too.

 

There's a legitimate reason to lower the CXP values as they are out of whack with the rest of the game, but there's an even more compelling reason to not lower it all the way back to 75 and to review the values across the board. I like a lot of your suggestions about rotating it, finding a good compromised amount, giving you a reason to visit these areas, and substantially reducing the time it takes to level up your alts (catch-up mechanic).

 

So, thanks for all the ideas. We'll decide what to do next week, but in the meantime, take advantage of this massive CXP change. I'm confident that'll help guide us in our discussions and decision about what to do next.

 

---Keith

 

The post also shows that the devs aren't adverse to returning to old content and looking at what they can do to improve it

[ImmortalLowlife]

...Given this thread I might ask around and see how many of us are lacking the OP that started this all and see if we might give it some thought. If I'm not pelted with virtual-veggies, who knows. Still want warning on quest lines about this sort of thing though.

 

 

With this in mind, any solo players/friendly raiders on shadowlands who want to get together and give it a shot... I'm down.

 

Imp- Kapeezy (dps Merc)

Pub-Razorbakk (Guardian Tank)

 

I've never done an OP, but I know my class.

[FtWorthJim]

The post also shows that the devs aren't adverse to returning to old content and looking at what they can do to improve it

 

There are miles of difference between tweaking existing content and creating new content which is what you're asking for.

[Ylliarus]

There are miles of difference between tweaking existing content and creating new content which is what you're asking for.

 

Then why did the Devs go back and redo all the first cutscenes of each beginning of every class story not too long ago? If they truly never go back to creating new content for the old stuff in the game how do you explain the fact that they did exactly that for those cutscenes, it takes a lot of effort to rescript all of that and create an entire new animation for 8 seperate classes. And yet they did it, which is further indication there is willingness with the dev team to return to old content.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Kyuuu]

Then why did the Devs go back and redo all the first cutscenes of each beginning of every class story not too long ago? If they truly never go back to creating new content for the old stuff in the game how do you explain the fact that they did exactly that for those cutscenes, it takes a lot of effort to rescript all of that and create an entire new animation for 8 seperate classes. And yet they did it, which is further indication there is willingness with the dev team to return to old content.

 

they didnt "redo" them they barely changed them minor tweaks are more like it.

 

they wont even fix bugs and issue in old content at that. oricon is solo frendly the ops are not, could the do option like they did for TOS sure, will they probably not they are still in damage control mode and have been since 5.0, 9 month later we still only have 2 of boss from the new "ops", i honestly think they have skeleton crew working on the game these days

[fushnchips]

Then why did the Devs go back and redo all the first cutscenes of each beginning of every class story not too long ago? If they truly never go back to creating new content for the old stuff in the game how do you explain the fact that they did exactly that for those cutscenes, it takes a lot of effort to rescript all of that and create an entire new animation for 8 seperate classes. And yet they did it, which is further indication there is willingness with the dev team to return to old content.

 

God help us all you won't let the solo thing go everything people say you try and give other comparisons that are nothing alike have you played the solo game Super Star Wars on the SNES ?

[phalczen]

Then why did the Devs go back and redo all the first cutscenes of each beginning of every class story not too long ago? If they truly never go back to creating new content for the old stuff in the game how do you explain the fact that they did exactly that for those cutscenes, it takes a lot of effort to rescript all of that and create an entire new animation for 8 seperate classes. And yet they did it, which is further indication there is willingness with the dev team to return to old content.

 

They had access to new cinematic techniques using lighting and camera angles and effects that were developed for KOTFE/KOTET and adapted to enhance the opening scenes only. They didn't change anything after the opening sequence, they didn't change anything about the flow of events, and they didn't record any new voice acting or new character animations. Basically apples and oranges.

 

They have a limited amount of time and they had to prioritize. This was done in an era where the game was less solo-friendly. Group content was a focus then. You had all sorts of dailies to grind to your hearts content back then if you were a solo player, not to mention the class stories. In the time you spent arguing on the forums about why the devs should add a solo mode you could have asked your guild to help you finish the ops. I wish they could add a way to see the cutscenes from the planetary heroics again but that has also fallen upon deaf ears.

 

Section X, while relevant to them, and as of last year solo friendly, has next to nothing in the way of story. So you've already missed out on a large chunk of it by avoiding ops. Most of the dread master story was tied to operations anyway, unless you were an Imperial character. Should they add a whole story on Belsavis for pubs to learn about why the dread masters were imprisoned? How come you aren't complaining about that? It's not fair that only imperial players get to see their backstory. I should not have to roll an imp toon just to see them. Do you see how your argument can be stretched to absurdity?

 

The devs originally designed the game to have the fourth pillar of story woven into the other MMO pillars including group content. Some of the content in the game requires a group. Why should only solo players get to enjoy any story elements?

[FtWorthJim]

They had access to new cinematic techniques using lighting and camera angles and effects that were developed for KOTFE/KOTET and adapted to enhance the opening scenes only. They didn't change anything after the opening sequence, they didn't change anything about the flow of events, and they didn't record any new voice acting or new character animations. Basically apples and oranges.

 

They have a limited amount of time and they had to prioritize. This was done in an era where the game was less solo-friendly. Group content was a focus then. You had all sorts of dailies to grind to your hearts content back then if you were a solo player, not to mention the class stories. In the time you spent arguing on the forums about why the devs should add a solo mode you could have asked your guild to help you finish the ops. I wish they could add a way to see the cutscenes from the planetary heroics again but that has also fallen upon deaf ears.

 

Section X, while relevant to them, and as of last year solo friendly, has next to nothing in the way of story. So you've already missed out on a large chunk of it by avoiding ops. Most of the dread master story was tied to operations anyway, unless you were an Imperial character. Should they add a whole story on Belsavis for pubs to learn about why the dread masters were imprisoned? How come you aren't complaining about that? It's not fair that only imperial players get to see their backstory. I should not have to roll an imp toon just to see them. Do you see how your argument can be stretched to absurdity?

 

The devs originally designed the game to have the fourth pillar of story woven into the other MMO pillars including group content. Some of the content in the game requires a group. Why should only solo players get to enjoy any story elements?

 

This should, but won't, close down the discussion. Well put.

[MikeCobalt]

My original server didn't have near enough people to do those Ops. Its been so long now that I really gave up on ever doing them although that Throne I do still want. I changed to a better server but the want never restarted. Just buying one from the GTN doesn't seem right. I also think that should be soloable.

[VegasTheLost]

And why should the discussion be shut down?

 

Because this:

 

Solutions are there for you, easy solutions, kind advice was given at the beginning...

The time you've spent on debating in this thread you would've been ready with both of the OPS by now. Really not that hard to find a group - or a guild, god forbid - that accepts your play style. Really that's all it takes, nothing more.

[Khaleg]

Because this:

 

 

The time you've spent on debating in this thread you would've been ready with both of the OPS by now. Really not that hard to find a group - or a guild, god forbid - that accepts your play style. Really that's all it takes, nothing more.

 

Exactly, only totally stubborn and ignorant people don't realize this very obvious fact.

[Ylliarus]

Because this:

 

 

The time you've spent on debating in this thread you would've been ready with both of the OPS by now. Really not that hard to find a group - or a guild, god forbid - that accepts your play style. Really that's all it takes, nothing more.

 

As a matter of fact I am in a guild since a while now, it's where this idea came from. We're just not that into operations.

 

The only useless thing in this thread is your pitiful attitude, and the one of the few who are as ignorant and selfish as you are. It's hard to see with closed eyes. Try to open them. It's also hard to think with a brain in off mode. Try to switch it on. And grow the f... up.

 

So let me get this straight: I disagree with you and defend my own point of view with sensible arguments, subsequently defend myself against your deriding demeanour... and I need to grow up? I am the selfish, dumb and ignorant one? So, anyone who disagrees with you and tries to defend their viewpoints in a sensible way is selfish, dumb and ignorant? What a curious outlook on life you have.

 

What happened to everyone having a right to their own viewpoints and defending it with arguments? Does it bug you that much that not everyone will always agree with you? If so, I suggest you reflect on yourself because you're displaying very immature behaviour.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Ylliarus