Enough about Theron. Please :)

[serenitty]

Tbh I don't think Theron is a traitor. I think he's pretending to be one, to infiltrate the Scions (?), but I don't think he let anyone in on it, not even the Commander.

 

I could be wrong, but let's hope I'm not b/c my character's romance with Theron is one of the main reasons I enjoy the game's story.

 

I honestly don't believe he is either. I was just concerned that no matter how it turned out, the option to kill or exile him would be made available for those that want that which would by past indications mean he would be removed from the main story and just left on a list of companions that are good for nothing but crafting/missions and heroics.

 

 

I actually think the traitor they are looking for is the Commander (well, who is inside the Commander) and Theron and possibly Lana have kept it from them so that person cannot find out.

 

Edited September 13, 2017 by serenitty

[Signalights]

I don't think you'd see it this way but, Theron actually did everything he could do to NOT kill you just make it look like it. I'm talking Umbara here I have not see any other instance where he has threatened or appeared to threaten my character. He shoots out a window so you can escape, he uses stun setting on his pistol, warns you how long you have to escape. Leaves most of the crystals behind for you to take. (That being the mission in the first place}.

 

He has to make it look as though he wants you dead for his plan to work. I also think Lana is involved in this plan, taking the hit for you when he attacks (giving him time to explain in a way what he's doing) and she is very quick to brand him traitor given how much time they have spent together and got to know one another as friends and allies, you'd think she would be a bit more shocked rather than flat out accusing him.

 

If this is true then they are just making our characters look like total fools. In that case Lana and Theron are the true heroes of the story, not us. In that case we are not even sidekicks, just the comedy relief, and we are basically reduced to the role of Var Suthra in the Jedi Knight story.

 

And what Lana did on Rishi was no less irresponsible, she endangered not only Theron's life but risked their exposure and giving away their plans.

 

Yeah and notice now Theron got super pissed about it and afterward he wouldn't let her live it down. He even has a private convo with you while she is away to tell you he doesn't trust her anymore, and gives this big speech about how he would have volunteered for the mission if he had been asked, but Lana didn't even give him the choice, which really upset him. Unless that was all just an act too?

 

By Theron's own logic we (the player character) should be informed of this plan and given the opportunity to either agree to play along with it, or order them both to forget the idea because it's way too insane. Because we are supposed to be the Commander. We are not the Commander if either Theron or Lana, or both, are pulling all the strings behind our backs.

 

So if you're theory is true, then it is still treason, and they still endangered your life to try to pull of their scheme without your knowledge or consent. Personally, I would still exile the both of them at the very least for that kind of stunt, for using me like that without my permission. I would never be their friends again.

 

Remember they did this with Arcann, twice. Made you believe you could and would kill him but you never got the chance to follow it through, best you got was to shoot his shuttle down which missed. I think you only got to finally kill him in ET because so many people wanted him dead and they caved.

 

No, I am 100% sure they had it planned from the get go for you to be able to kill Arcann by the end of the story. Otherwise you would be forced to forgive both Senya for betraying you and Arcann for what he did to you and the millions of other people he killed on the random 5 planets he decided to bomb when he as having a hissy fit, and accept them both back as not only companions but your closest allies who help you kill Valkorion instead of Theron and Lana. Because that's the only other choice it gives you.

 

If that is how this game was made, I wouldn't be playing it. Lucky for me Bioware is a little bit smarter than that.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Signalights

[serenitty]

If this is true then they are just making our characters look like total fools. In that case Lana and Theron are the true heroes of the story, not us. In that case we are not even sidekicks, just the comedy relief, and we are basically reduced to the role of Var Suthra in the Jedi Knight story.

 

 

 

Yeah and notice now Theron got super pissed about it and afterward he wouldn't let her live it down. He even has a private convo with you while she is away to tell you he doesn't trust her anymore, and gives this big speech about how he would have volunteered for the mission if he had been asked, but Lana didn't even give him the choice, which really upset him. Unless that was all just an act too?

 

By Theron's own logic we (the player character) should be informed of this plan and given the opportunity to either agree to play along with it, or order them both to forget the idea because it's way too insane. Because we are supposed to be the Commander. We are not the Commander if either Theron or Lana, or both, are pulling all the strings behind our backs.

 

So if you're theory is true, then it is still treason, and they still endangered your life to try to pull of their scheme without your knowledge or consent. Personally, I would still exile the both of them at the very least for that kind of stunt, for using me like that without my permission. I would never be their friends again.

 

 

No, I am 100% sure they had it planned from the get go for you to be able to kill Arcann by the end of the story. Otherwise you would be forced to forgive both Senya for betraying you and Arcann for what he did to you and the millions of other people he killed on the random 5 planets he decided to bomb when he as having a hissy fit, and accept them both back as not only companions but your closest allies who help you kill Valkorion instead of Theron and Lana. Because that's the only other choice it gives you.

 

If that is how this game was made, I wouldn't be playing it. Lucky for me Bioware is a little bit smarter than that.

Try looking under my spoiler in the post above. It gives a quick explain of my theory. It probably isn't right but to me that's the only explanation.

Edited September 13, 2017 by serenitty

[RevansSoul]

Try looking under my spoiler in the post above. It gives a quick explain of my theory. It probably isn't right but to me that's the only explanation.

 

Who do you mean?

 

 

Valkorion is out of the Commander's head.

 

[serenitty]

Who do you mean?

 

 

Valkorion is out of the Commander's head.

 

 

I don't believe he is. The holocron was destroyed and he has been around for centuries. I think he has tricks that could get him out of situations like that, no doubt dozens before have tried and failed. I think it was too easy. Not to mention this story started with him, was basically about him wanting to get his throne back. The story is still going, I don't think it's over.

 

[Signalights]

I don't believe he is. The holocron was destroyed and he has been around for centuries. I think he has tricks that could get him out of situations like that, no doubt dozens before have tried and failed. I think it was too easy. Not to mention this story started with him, was basically about him wanting to get his throne back. The story is still going, I don't think it's over.

 

I don't want Valkorion back, and it wouldn't make sense, either. It would have to be retconned, because we are supposed to have not only destroyed him but "erased him from the galaxy". He is supposed to have been utterly annihilated from all existence, and even Satele Shan said she felt the shockwave from it on the other side of the galaxy. I would consider it very lame for them to bring him back now, and he's yet another character that has had more than enough screen time by now. I want actually new characters to show up at this point. We can't keep doing the same things over and over, and having Valkorion not only back, but still inside our head, would just mean we have to replay FE/ET all over again (which we can already do anyway). No Thanks.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Signalights

[serenitty]

I don't want Valkorion back, and it wouldn't make sense, either. It would have to be retconned, because we are supposed to have not only destroyed him but "erased him from the galaxy". He is supposed to have been utterly annihilated from all existence, and even Satele Shan said she felt the shockwave from it on the other side of the galaxy. I would consider it very lame for them to bring him back now, and he's yet another character that has had more than enough screen time by now. I want actually new characters to show up at this point. We can't keep doing the same things over and over, and having Valkorion not only back, but still inside our head, would just mean we have to replay FE/ET all over again (which we can already do anyway). No Thanks.

 

lol I did say it probably isn't true, I'm not that good a detective but to me it's the only explanation.

If we go by the assumption Theron is not the traitor which a lot of the evidence points to him not being then what other reason would there be to not inform the Commander what is going on. If it was anyone one else they would be quick to tell them. There would be no reason to keep them out of the plan unless the traitor is that 'close'.

We are told that everyone in the alliance has been cleared. There's only one person that would not have been investigated or led to believe they weren't investigated. So if everyone else has been eliminated from suspicion that leaves only one person and to tell the Commander of their suspicions would certainly alert that person.

 

Let's face it, if they wanted it to be that clear cut to make Theron the traitor, then yes, that would ONLY work if he betrayed a DS player, Lana would have to be the LS traitor. This can't be about either one of them being a traitor so it has to be a plan to catch the real one.

Edited September 13, 2017 by serenitty

[Thruine]

My viewpoint is this wouldn't be as big an issue if there were more of our companions involved in the story. I've got a crap load of companions as it is and they all may as well be named tank, damage and healer. They do absolutely nothing beyond that. So all they've left us with are Lana and Theron (with a bit of T7 to a certain point). I'd feel the same if they did this to Lana (which would make more sense for Republic players than Theron who makes sense for Imperials).

 

So now we are left with one of the two characters to have any involvement in the story (cut scenes and chats) to have betrayed us (given that some would like to betray the Alliance themselves). Now I believe this is a ruse and Theron didn't actually betray us but the kill option will ensure he may as well. So its just crappy all the way around. No one will win. Everyone gets their story even smaller (it involves your character and the sole surviving character) by the command structure down to two. I mean, it doesn't make sense he has betrayed us but at the same time it seems he has. That's just terrible writing since there's nothing we can do. We can't go on a mission to prove his innocence because in some cases he tells us he did it so none exists. There's certainly seems no content allowing for it. Its betrayed ya so see ya for how long now?

 

But it wouldn't bug me so much personally if there had been more than Lana and Theron actively involved in the game with my character. My cast of tanks, damagers and healers certainly aren't adding anything. The whole thing to me is just focusing on the problems SWTOR has (which is this lack of actual use of the number of companions we have). Its like a laser beam pointing at hey, you know how you have so many companions well they aren't going to actually act like the companions as you know them.

 

In the pre-50 game, we could bring any of our five companions and while they didn't always have much to say they did at times offer something like at actual character. Its why I didn't mind waiting for original companions to return. What do we get, something like Quinn? Hello again, oh I screwed ya, kill me or not, I'll never speak again. Maybe the folks that romanced him got something more but it was useless to me to see him come back cause he's not an actual character. His real name is Healer. Now when and if Theron returns and explains himself, he'll start going by Healer with maybe a cutscene saying "Present".

 

Its just crappy regardless how its resolved since I don't even like how its been going so far. At best, they might could salvage this if the real traitor kidnapped him or something and this is all smoke and mirrors. I just can't see how one of the two who pushed us through a lot of this would just attempt to kill us. Like on Iokath, Theron is pushing that we've got to step into the middle of this (and pick a side) and once we do he tries to take us out. no matter which one we chose. I still don't get it. I mean, is he working towards something that doesn't help the Republic or Empire but his own thing since that's the only thing I can figure out. The story has paused at either a terrible time or the build up just didn't get refined well.

[Signalights]

If we go by the assumption Theron is not the traitor which a lot of the evidence points to him not being then what other reason would there be to not inform the Commander what is going on.

 

Because I'm not the one assuming that Theron is not the traitor. I'm assuming he is. All current evidence indicates this very strongly, because there is a lot of it. I think they have gone pretty far out of their way to make sure you get that this really is Theron, not a copy or a fake, and he's not being mind-controlled. They want this story to be dramatic, and having it be that he is not really the one doing this for all the reasons he gave you an entire speech about would cheapen that.

 

From the reasons he gives you on the train to the letter he sends you in the end, he gives very clear, and in some cases very understandable reasons for his actions. I agree it doesn't make sense for a LS character, but I don't think it's supposed to. In fact I think that is the point. If someone like Arcann can almost instantly be cured of his level of darkness after slaughtering millions of random people on a whim, and become your best buddy overnight, that means the exact opposite can happen to even the most LS character, in this universe.

 

And, honestly, wouldn't you want Theron to betray a 100% DS commander that openly admits that he/she wants to subjugate the entire galaxy, and rule with an iron fist just as bad or worse than Valkorion or Arcann ever did? My own character with his admittedly gray morals would want Theron to betray someone that evil, and would expect him to.

 

So I'm sticking to my theory (which isn't really my theory since other people have mentioned it also in other places) that Theron's actual motivations for his betrayal are going to turn out different for different players depending on what *different* choices you make, starting with the last choice you were given at the end of the story in Crisis on Umbara. The 3 different types of letters you will get from Theron after the fact are strong evidence of this. Which I actually think is a genius idea to allow the player greater consequences and diverging outcomes for being LS vs DS, and make the story make more sense from those two very different perspectives.

 

Personally, as I've said before, even though my character tries to be mostly LS and chose to try to be a peacekeeper instead of a ruler, he has done his share of dark stuff along the way. And I can see that Theron would maybe not be able to forgive me for killing Senya and Kaliyo.

 

We are told that everyone in the alliance has been cleared.

 

Yeah...by the guy who turned out to be the traitor. LOL.

 

Let's face it, if they wanted it to be that clear cut to make Theron the traitor, then yes, that would ONLY work if he betrayed a DS player, Lana would have to be the LS traitor. This can't be about either one of them being a traitor so it has to be a plan to catch the real one.

 

Completely untrue. You were willing to enjoy the story of Arcann being magically cured of his darkness and turn into a total good guy after being a psycho murderer for years, now you have to deal with Theron going the other way. The knife of the Force cuts both ways.

 

And let's face it...this is Star Wars...not Stars Of Our Lives. I understand some people are willing to sacrifice all plot and turn this game into an interactive romance novel to always keep Theron safe, but I am pretty sure they are in the minority of Star Wars fans in general who want a little more maturity in the game than that. Not only that but Bioware is not going to cave into people that are trying to tie their hands behind their backs artistically by saying "you are not allowed to kill this character or else".

Edited September 14, 2017 by Signalights

[Eshvara]

And, honestly, wouldn't you want Theron to betray a 100% DS commander that openly admits that he/she wants to subjugate the entire galaxy, and rule with an iron fist just as bad or worse than Valkorion or Arcann ever did? My own character with his admittedly gray morals would want Theron to betray someone that evil, and would expect him to.

 

I did always find it weird how Theron just kinda goes along with whatever you do. He might not agree with your cruel choices but then once it happened, it is never spoken of again. He is a good character, and I don't think he fits a DS story at all. But that's probably swtor's limitations. If this was Dragon age, he would have probably wanted to leave!

[Thruine]

And let's face it...this is Star Wars...not Stars Of Our Lives. I understand some people are willing to sacrifice all plot and turn this game into an interactive romance novel to always keep Theron safe, but I am pretty sure they are in the minority of Star Wars fans in general who want a little more maturity in the game than that. Not only that but Bioware is not going to cave into people that are trying to tie their hands behind their backs artistically by saying "you are not allowed to kill this character or else".

 

See, I think that's completely unfair since not everyone who doesn't like this is romancing the guy. No one can get around the fact that for some time now Theron is one of two speaking parts beside the main character in this game. Its a loss to some anemic character interactions. Let's say you like Vette and so you chose to save her over Torian. Great. Now she's always there filling us in in what's going on right along with Theron and Lana. Except she isn't. She said thanks and that's the last of that. I guess if you had save Torian he'd also say thanks then disappear into his tab.

 

That's the thing that bugs me about this. We're already limited as is. I accepted that Lana and Theron were the two main companions. I even liked it. Now half my team is turning on me? Why didn't Vette? Oh, that's right. She might be dead in some people's game so can't use her. That's the biggest issue. About the only use romances really give is some 90 seconds of extra dialog than you get if you don't romance him. We're starving for something more like a Bioware game in which we interact with our team. I don't even use these two that much but they get more screen time and now that's trashed. Vette's not going to be filling those shoes (she's just an example but I do like her and wished she got more).

 

I redeemed Arcann and him and his mom moved in. I wouldn't mind seeing more with them. Are we getting that? Nope. Arcann could have betrayed us with his force using ways after the save but he didn't since he doesn't have a speaking part in this game. All of its been given to Lana and Theron so of course people are going to develop some like for the two (or hate, its a thin line). They're all we've been getting and now half the story is turning on us. Great, first the shadow government in Sharesh, the Empire hates us because of Iokath and one of the builders of the Alliance had a change of heart.

 

And Arcann was redeemed through example and action. While maybe pretty quick (I called and still believe its ******** that Darth Vader was actually redeemed in ESB but whatever I guess). We've never seen a character just wake up one day with no prompting and just decide I think I'll try to kill my best friend (or lover). I mean can you image if every time Luke Skywalker fell asleep he may wake up evil? I guess that's great drama to some. That's what I'm seeing from Theron. Regardless of what is done after the fact, its still seems pretty flimsy and if you think about it, almost every reason him may have he was involved in making it. I usually took both of their advise and went with the Republic side. Betrayed. Those who went total dark side. Betrayed. Those who didn't want to rule. Betrayed. Those who ruled. Betrayed. Seeing a pattern? It didn't matter what any did, he's just betrays because he is the traitor.

 

Still, the message coming across is don't depend on companions as character. They will turn on you for some reason just because leaving those sticking around for the story to just hang it up. Nothing is going to make sense and everything is pointless. Way to get more excitement. Just like I didn't get that crazy over the original companions because I knew when I started playing they'd disappear. Never bought a single gift for one. Found out the droid does stay and he became my main companion until the rest left and even after. That's what all companions have now become with this, something to just ignore storywise because they are just some meaningless conversation to click through or spacebar as much as possible. I can't even imagine how this makes sense to players that romanced the guy because their boyfriend actually tried to kill them for laughs.

 

When they came up with this idea of a traitor the first thing they should have done was notice when looking at the cast there were only two and thought maybe we better bring some of the second fiddles to the fore before we throw this out there so folks would feel engaged without pissed off. A lot seem to be walking away from this not excited for what's next but great, another name character added to the countless named characters who never speak. Why not pull all missing companions from the terminal. Their story isn't going to matter because one day they may wake up and say I think I'll kill that commander. The warning it gives is meaningless because their story apparently isn't going to make sense. If I could look back and say, oh yeah I was a bastard there and there. But if you're siding with Theron most of the time (or at least what he recommends but apparently doesn't believe) then this is just leaves you wondering what the heck?

 

I thought when I first heard of a traitor that it would be Lana or Theron because those were the only choices we actually have but I also thought it would make sense. It just doesn't to me and if Days is about people dealing with others making out of the blue choices to try to kill them, maybe I might as well watch it instead.

[Eshvara]

I redeemed Arcann and him and his mom moved in.

 

I really like the way you phrased this. looool!

[feylyndiira]

That's the thing that bugs me about this. We're already limited as is. I accepted that Lana and Theron were the two main companions. I even liked it. Now half my team is turning on me? Why didn't Vette? Oh, that's right. She might be dead in some people's game so can't use her. That's the biggest issue. About the only use romances really give is some 90 seconds of extra dialog than you get if you don't romance him. We're starving for something more like a Bioware game in which we interact with our team. I don't even use these two that much but they get more screen time and now that's trashed. Vette's not going to be filling those shoes (she's just an example but I do like her and wished she got more)..

 

^^THIS is exactly my #1 issue with the whole thing....and pretty much all of KotFE/ET (and pretty much everything past the vanilla story). One of the things that made SWTOR unique in the MMO world was the companions that you got to run around with, get to know, even become friends and/or lovers to. Then suddenly, after 3 chapters of getting to know and getting attached to the vanilla comps, they go mostly mute for 2 (or 3) chapters, then get completely taken away at the start of KotFE.

 

Okay...not fine, but we have new comps being introduced, so at least that's something. So now we get a chance to run around with, get to know, become friends/lovers with new comps. But then, they start getting taken away, either through death or betrayal. And what vanilla comps have been returned got their 5 minutes or less in the spotlight then went back to being silent cardboard cutouts (or dead). So now our entourage has been whittled down to....well, Lana since she's the only speaking, interacting companion who has not had the chance to be killed or betray us.

 

The uniqueness that BioWare brought to this game through the companion interaction is all but gone now. And that saddens me because it's one of the main things that keeps me coming back to SWTOR over any other MMO I've tried.

[TyonYlle]

I think it's a little unfair on Bio's part, because we're what, two story parts out of KotET, Iokath and now Umbara? Arcann hasn't had the chance to say anything because both Iokath and Umbara have involved T&L. Maybe I'm naive, but with much needed improvement that Keith is bringing us, and that Umbara was MILES ahead of both KotFE & KotET, I'm hoping that older companions will once again have more involvement. But for this to happen, I think Theron, or Lana, or both have to go, as much as I love Theron (and I've romanced him on my main). I also think that it's inevitable for the alliance to fall which again, I think is another step in the right direction to making SWTOR great again.

 

the more I think about it, the more I'm sure. The way he said to a romanced character "I'd do anything to protect you." He's doing this to protect the Commander from the real traitors, the remaining Scions. They want to destroy the Alliance, revenge for what happened to Heskel and the others. I remember that lingering shot on that Scion's face; She's the real traitor. Theron is undercover. There won't be a kill option because he is not a traitor.

 

I think we're going to be getting an Arcann thing, and yes, I also believe Arcann will have a future role after this alliance business finishes but that's a whole other thread in itself.

 

Admittedly, I'm mainly going off that quote, but I think we're going to receive a kill option, but I don't think that will be it for Theron if someone chooses to spare him. He has just had too much of an impact, like Lana, in the overall story. I am on the side of those in favor of a kill option, despite having romanced Theron, because that makes the most sense for our character. Selfish, I know, but we ALL have been selfish at some point in this thread, even those who don't want a kill option.

 

I don't think there is anything to worry about as far as the two main characters go, and do note I'm not including the PC in that. I've said before in this thread that I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised with how Bio handles this, so I believe under Keith's leadership we are slowly, yes key word is slowly, returning back to at least two branching storylines, if only for huge choices. But that's loads better then what we had.

 

So, a summery:

 

1. 
   [1.] Eventual end to alliance.
   [2.] Branching choice in the case of Theron. People getting a kill and/or banishment choice, and some people getting a forgive/spare/save choice.
    
   [3. ]Eventual introduction of new cast/characters/companions/companions we already have (that matter).
   

I believe we'll be seeing at least one new arrival soon, and this is the reason why I would love a kill option for T&L, because they have just been too involved in the story at the expense of other companions.

 

But, without a word from either Keith or Musco, and I don't believe we will hear anything from them, nor should we. I don't see how much further this conversation and continue, because we all have said our points, and it's pretty apparent that none of us have even changed our minds, and dare I say are even starting to, agree, somewhat?

 

Edit

 

So I'm sticking to my theory (which isn't really my theory since other people have mentioned it also in other places) that Theron's actual motivations for his betrayal are going to turn out different for different players depending on what *different* choices you make, starting with the last choice you were given at the end of the story in Crisis on Umbara. The 3 different types of letters you will get from Theron after the fact are strong evidence of this. Which I actually think is a genius idea to allow the player greater consequences and diverging outcomes for being LS vs DS, and make the story make more sense from those two very different perspectives.

 

Actually, that is a brilliant move on Bio's part, and something that I totally didn't think about! Yeah, I can definitely see this happening, and I think it can definitely explain why Theron turned on a LS character. I haven't read the LS-letter, but I think that this could totally make sense!

Edited September 14, 2017 by TyonYlle
Forgot to add in a quote from a poster I found interesting, my bad!

[Signalights]

See, I think that's completely unfair since not everyone who doesn't like this is romancing the guy. No one can get around the fact that for some time now Theron is one of two speaking parts beside the main character in this game. Its a loss to some anemic character interactions.

 

All the more reason they need to do something to fix that. It is a problem. Theron and Lana have no business being the only two companions who ever get any speaking parts anymore. This is something to be pushing for a remedy for, not making worse by encouraging them to continue the admitedly faulty practice, just becuase you so happen to be particularly attached to one of these characters personally.

 

Let's say you like Vette and so you chose to save her over Torian. Great. Now she's always there filling us in in what's going on right along with Theron and Lana. Except she isn't. She said thanks and that's the last of that. I guess if you had save Torian he'd also say thanks then disappear into his tab.

 

I've already addressed this back in an earlier post on this thread, when I spoke about Aric Jorgan being my all-time favorite companion, and how I am disappointed that I don't get to talk to him at all anymore. What makes that worse for me is the fact that the last real convo I had with him was terse, because it was right after I killed Kaliyo, which he disapproved of. Now I just have to pretend there was an extra scene somewhere afterward where we talked about the incident and reconciled over it. But notice how you don't see me quitting the game over it?

 

That's the thing that bugs me about this. We're already limited as is.

 

So your solution to the problem is let's continue the trend by making it even more limited. Only as long as you are one of the ones to get your way with the story, of course. Otherwise you will quit the game?

 

The thing that bothers me the most about this whole conversation is this depressingly defeatest attitude about Bioware's direction and potential capability to improve. So instead of rallying with those of us, like me, who actually do want more choices for everyone, and better divergeance for different characters including yours, you have reduced your entire rally cry to being nothing more than "make everyone play my way or take the highway because I don't trust your ability to write anymore, so all I want now is to keep my Ken doll". SMH.

 

I redeemed Arcann and him and his mom moved in. I wouldn't mind seeing more with them. Are we getting that? Nope. Arcann could have betrayed us with his force using ways after the save but he didn't since he doesn't have a speaking part in this game.

 

Again, the solution to this problem is for everyone who wants more and better story content in general, especially regarding companion interactions, is for us to work together (instead of against each other) to push Bioware to make more of it for everyone. We've already gone over the idea of adding extra convo packs to the CM. I would make it so they are tokens that cost 2400 CC ($20 worth of CC), for each companion that can possibly be alive in your contacts list. The token can only be consumed by those with that character marked as alive and able to summon from your contact list. Otherwise the token is grayed out, but can be sold or traded to other players after a temporary bind timer like everyone else you can get on the CM. They can make one for all the original comps that are so far retrievable in the story, and then do one for Lana, Theron, Arcann, and Senya. As more comps are returned to the story, they can do ones for them with updated dialog that makes sense with the currente events of the main story. If successful they can do more and more, and make more money, or they could even just add some "classic" convos if they can't get or afford the VA's, but for a cheaper price like $10 instead of $20 if they go that route.

 

All of its been given to Lana and Theron so of course people are going to develop some like for the two (or hate, its a thin line).

 

So you admit that forcing the characters on us so strongly can make some people just hate them all the more, but you don't see that as a problem for them to continue doing it. All you want them to do is only pay attention to the people that have fallen in love with the characters and ignore everyone else who is growing more and more impatient with them. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

 

They're all we've been getting and now half the story is turning on us. Great, first the shadow government in Sharesh, the Empire hates us because of Iokath and one of the builders of the Alliance had a change of heart.

 

It's called Star *Wars* for a reason. There will never be peace in this galaxy, or they would have to change the name of the franchise. So if you are the hero of this galaxy, you will be facing these odds at every turn.

 

And Arcann was redeemed through example and action.

 

No, he was healed by Voss mystics medidating over him, which wasn't enough until his mother did some weird thing with the Force where she sacrificed some part of her life essense (apparently temporarily) during the ritual to actually force him to go light.

 

We've never seen a character just wake up one day with no prompting and just decide I think I'll try to kill my best friend (or lover).

 

According to Theron himself, in the new narrative, he has been planning this ever since the defeat of Valkorion. And since he is a super spy it does make sense that he could lie really good, to even his closest allies and lovers. This is like he would have to if he was working undercover for potentially years at a time, that he would have training from the SIS to do. Plus he's a cyborg with implants that aid him resisting torture, so they probably play a part in keeping his stress down while he is lying. So it's not exactly a stretch. Betrayls always suck, but they happen often enough in real life that it's silly to say they are inconcievable in a fantasy setting.

 

I mean can you image if every time Luke Skywalker fell asleep he may wake up evil? I guess that's great drama to some. That's what I'm seeing from Theron.

 

This is one of the problems with the idea of the Force in Star Wars, because apparently this can really happen to just about anyone. Maybe certain characters are more resistant to flipping than others, but you don't always know which ones are the susceptible ones.

 

It didn't matter what any did, he's just betrays because he is the traitor.

 

Again, I think his motivations will be different for you than it will be for other more DS players, such as myself. For you, as long as you picked all the LS options in Crisis on Umbara, and continue to pick them during the rest of the story line whenever choosing how to deal with or talk to Theron, I think its very likely that you will get the happy ending with Theron returning to you as your companion. As to whether or not you get any more major scenes with him if others are given the option to do something different with him, that remains to be seen.

 

Nothing is going to make sense and everything is pointless.

 

Betrayals are meant to hurt. They had already started the traitor storyline back in Iokath, for better or worse, and had to figure out some way to finish it. If they had picked some random red-shirt character no one has ever cared about before to be the traitor, then a lot more people would be upset at Bioware's lack of creativity. Betrayls are a staple of all great dramas. Can you even name one where that wasn't a thing at some point?

 

Just like I didn't get that crazy over the original companions because I knew when I started playing they'd disappear.

 

And yet you did this with Theron thinking he would somehow be untouchable for the rest of SWTOR's existence? Listen to yourself. This is like saying you should never make friends IRL because some day they are going to die. And this is just a game where the characters are not even real people. Plus these are characters owned by someone who is allowed to do whatever they want with them.

 

All I really care about investing my emotions into in games is how my own character, the one I am actually playing, gets to react to whatever the devs decide to throw at me. Theron's betrayal hurt me too, but my character is not going to /wrists over it.

 

But if you're siding with Theron most of the time (or at least what he recommends but apparently doesn't believe) then this is just leaves you wondering what the heck?

 

That was kind of the point. Betrayals aren't really betrayals if you can see them coming.

 

I thought when I first heard of a traitor that it would be Lana or Theron because those were the only choices we actually have but I also thought it would make sense. It just doesn't to me and if Days is about people dealing with others making out of the blue choices to try to kill them, maybe I might as well watch it instead.

 

Well think about it from a DS perspective for just a second and realize how much less sense it makes for Theron to keep following some complete a-hole like he is totally cool with supporting and fighting for and risking his life every day for someone who killed his own dad in front of him.

[Eshvara]

So your solution to the problem is let's continue the trend by making it even more limited. Only as long as you are one of the ones to get your way with the story, of course. Otherwise you will quit the game?.

I see this a lot on the forums as well and while I'm personally of the mindset that, should the story not go the way I want, I'll still play,

I can't exactly blame people for no longer wanting to pay for a game they don't enjoy. If the death of a companion ruins the gameplay for said person, it's their right to quit.

I do wish the forums wouldn't have as many threats of quitting in general however.

 

I don't know how the story will pan out, but should it be the Theron and Lana show for the next 5 years, I'll suck it up and deal with it. I enjoy swtor too much to abandon the game over that. But not everyone shares my feelings towards this.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Eshvara

[serenitty]

Again, I think his motivations will be different for you than it will be for other more DS players, such as myself. For you, as long as you picked all the LS options in Crisis on Umbara, and continue to pick them during the rest of the story line whenever choosing how to deal with or talk to Theron, I think its very likely that you will get the happy ending with Theron returning to you as your companion. As to whether or not you get any more major scenes with him if others are given the option to do something different with him, that remains to be seen.

 

 

And That is the problem.

(I'm not even going to touch your thought about him being the traitor for everyone in different ways...opens up a whole different can of worms)

 

Your choice to kill him should NOT affect my choice to have him back in the role he had before. The DS option pretty much makes the LS option irrelevant. Because no matter what I still lose him to ways I do not want and did not choose.

My choice to save him and forgive him does not impact your decision to kill him but your choice to kill him impacts mine.

 

I don't care if people want to kill him, by all means let them, but that should in no way affect my choice to not kill him and that is what they (BW) need to change. What they did with Arcann and Senya/Theron and Lana in ET looks like they may be doing it that way, we can only hope.

Edited September 14, 2017 by serenitty

[Eshvara]

I don't care if people want to kill him, by all means let them, but that should in no way affect my choice to not kill him and that is what they (BW) need to change. What they did with Arcann and Senya/Theron and Lana in ET looks like they may be doing it that way, we can only hope.

 

Fingers crossed!!

[Signalights]

Maybe I'm naive, but with much needed improvement that Keith is bringing us, and that Umbara was MILES ahead of both KotFE & KotET, I'm hoping that older companions will once again have more involvement. But for this to happen, I think Theron, or Lana, or both have to go, as much as I love Theron (and I've romanced him on my main). I also think that it's inevitable for the alliance to fall which again, I think is another step in the right direction to making SWTOR great again.

 

I totally agree. As much as I have genuinely enjoyed the story of the Alliance, for something different, and because I don't mind them shaking things up from time to time, I for one am ready for them to start edging the main story direction back into the traditional Republic vs. Empire paradigm. I know a lot of others including many of the SWTOR podcasters are saying the same thing, too. It's what people generally expect and crave for when they go into any Star Wars game, to get to act out a character in that universe. And now that the Alliance has pretty much run its course, and there's not a lot else they can really do with it, I am ready for that myself, to let go of the Alliance. My character in particular is more than ready to go back to fighting solely for the Republic.

 

I think we're going to be getting an Arcann thing, and yes, I also believe Arcann will have a future role after this alliance business finishes but that's a whole other thread in itself.

 

I am totally cool with that as long as they also put something in for those of us that have killed him. I don't want this to turn into a thing where every time you kill someone you get punished by getting no new content at all for your own character.

 

I've said before in this thread that I think people are going to be pleasantly surprised with how Bio handles this, so I believe under Keith's leadership we are slowly, yes key word is slowly, returning back to at least two branching storylines, if only for huge choices. But that's loads better then what we had.

 

I really like Keith so far, he seems very pragmatic about how to address the problems in this game. And I think you may be right that we all have great things yet in store for us under his leadership, no matter how we choose to play our toons. I prefer to maintain an optimistic outlook for the future of this game's story content, as well as the group content that will also be getting added on a (hopefully) more regular basis. Because I am in a large guild and very much enjoy doing the group content along with enjoying new chapters of the story.

 

So, a summery:

 

1. 
   [1.] Eventual end to alliance.
   [2.] Branching choice in the case of Theron. People getting a kill and/or banishment choice, and some people getting a forgive/spare/save choice.
    
   [3. ]Eventual introduction of new cast/characters/companions/companions we already have (that matter).
   

I believe we'll be seeing at least one new arrival soon, and this is the reason why I would love a kill option for T&L, because they have just been too involved in the story at the expense of other companions.

 

I hope you are right. All they have to do to fix this problem is simply make it so whatever new companion you say they might introduce (we are sorely overdue for one by now) takes the place of Theron in future cut-scenes for those of us that killed him, exiled him, or otherwise rejected him as a companion as punishment for his betrayal. Then soon after they can do the same thing with Lana for all the people who are tired of her. But everyone else who wanted to keep them will still have them as their main story helpers instead.

 

If only they could make it so there was a way you could choose specifically which companions from your old list would become your main contacts for story missions, but it would require so much extra work, it's not something we can realistically expect them to provide for free. Which is why I support the idea of creating new content for the old companions in DLC packs that have to be purchased separately to play them.

 

But, without a word from either Keith or Musco, and I don't believe we will hear anything from them, nor should we. I don't see how much further this conversation and continue, because we all have said our points, and it's pretty apparent that none of us have even changed our minds, and dare I say are even starting to, agree, somewhat?

 

The funny thing is we do, pretty much all of us from what I can tell, do agree one one important fact: Bioware needs to step up their game and start reproducing a similar level of content quality that they had in the past: where every different class could experience a significantly different story, which would also change some important aspects depending on their choices. They have been able to squeeze by with the one-size-fits-all method, by making everyone into the same commander of the same alliance regardless of their class, Force alignment, or faction history for quite a while, where the only thing you got to maintain at all was your overall Light vs. Dark attitude. Because they made a genuinely (at least to me) interesting story out of it with great characters and voice acting to be entertained by. But now the novelty of that has worn off.

 

And even if it's too much to ask to go back to having 8 separate stories going on at the same time, they do need to at least go back to a Republic vs. Empire thing somehow. That would mean that some new role supporting your old faction, or even better the faction of your choice regardless of class (if at all possible), would be a generic leadership role within that faction that would equally apply to both Force-users and non-Force users, with only minor dialog changes here and there. Pretty much like what they already did back with Makeb. Which I am ok with as long as they make it good and flesh it out with believable interactions with the characters, and most importantly good choices to pick from that enhances the RP aspect of the game.

 

The only real difference between the people here I disagree with comes to where we are directing our energies to provoke change. One side wants to just push for what I said is needed above, which I think is the most fair way possible to proceed, while the other side regrettably has resigned to assuming that the current direction of having a singular story for all characters is what we are stuck with for the rest of this game's lifespan. So their only argument is an ultimatum to give them the one story they want or they will just give up on SWTOR.

 

Actually, that is a brilliant move on Bio's part, and something that I totally didn't think about! Yeah, I can definitely see this happening, and I think it can definitely explain why Theron turned on a LS character. I haven't read the LS-letter, but I think that this could totally make sense!

 

If you want to read all 3 of the possible letters side-by-side, someone made a screenshot of them on a Youtube video:

 

I see this a lot on the forums as well and while I'm personally of the mindset that, should the story not go the way I want, I'll still play,

I can't exactly blame people for no longer wanting to pay for a game they don't enjoy. If the death of a companion ruins the gameplay for said person, it's their right to quit.

I do wish the forums wouldn't have as many threats of quitting in general however.

 

I don't know how the story will pan out, but should it be the Theron and Lana show for the next 5 years, I'll suck it up and deal with it. I enjoy swtor too much to abandon the game over that. But not everyone shares my feelings towards this.

 

I agree. I have never threatened to quit this game, and I don't plan on starting to do it now over story content. Even if they completely screw up the story in my mind with the next patch or whenever, I actually enjoy the group content and the guild I belong to very much outside of that. I like doing operations and master flashpoints, and working on conquests. Plus we have RP sessions where I can just act out the way I want my character to be there even if the official story content lets me down. That said, I cherish the story aspect of this game and I want it to continue being the greatest story every told in an MMO. Because of the choices and you can make it the way you want it to be that feels right to you. It is the main thing about this game that attracted me away from another MMO I used to play, that I quit for this game.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Signalights

[TyonYlle]

If only they could make it so there was a way you could choose specifically which companions from your old list would become your main contacts for story missions, but it would require so much extra work, it's not something we can realistically expect them to provide for free. Which is why I support the idea of creating new content for the old companions in DLC packs that have to be purchased separately to play them.

 

Okay, so now I'm going to be, like, super optimistic. But if Bio continues along the path they're on, in that we'll be pleasantly surprised by this part of the story and Theron. Then, maybe, eventually down the road more, and more companions might have a more active role in the main storyline, maybe as you say, even choose specifically. I don't think it would take a lot, just for EA to take notice in it again. From what I have seen, I see Bio gradually gaining momentum.

 

Sure, they might have taken a few steps backward, but that's to be expected to move forward. Like you said, Keith seems pragmatic when it comes to fixing all the problems that were left over from the last guy.

 

I don't think SWTOR is anywhere close to shutting down, they could, it would be a shame because we won't ever see another MMO. I think of EA as a overly distracted child. Something new has caught their attention, whether you want to think of it as BF2, Anthem which isn't even SW and thus shouldn't need to "compete", or the Uncharted-SW. Keith, and team only need to draw EA's hyperactive eyes away from their new, shiny toys for a moment.

 

I might take a few years, I certainly don't see much, anything huge like in the way of having a vast number of companions return to starring roles in 2018, or even 2019 but it all starts with Theron, and how he is handled. From what we have seen from Umbara, there is this great big shiny light in the distance. It's far, it's really far, but it is there.

 

 

If you want to read all 3 of the possible letters side-by-side, someone made a screenshot of them on a Youtube video:

 

Oh wow! So, I romanced Theron on my lil' scrapper, but she ended up receiving the "I was right" letter. I wouldn't necessarily call her dark sided, well, before she definitely is now and she wasn't exactly in the right frame of mind to be involved in the writing of ANY letter to Theron. She placed the bounty on him, but she didn't really.

 

"I guess power brings out everyone's bad side". That is such a powerful line, and it's relatable af for her. From her backstory that I gave her she was broken from the start, it took literally no effort for Valkorion to manipulate her. Had she been thinking rationally, and not angry she probably wouldn't have put the bounty on his head. She started off trying to do the right thing, but is probably far too angry to be in a position of leadership. The letter just reinforces that she thinks everyone blames/out to get her, whilst Theron thinks she's a lost cause. At this point, it's safe to say she's probably classified as a DSer.

 

All three of those letters are brilliantly written, because had she received the letter she should have, the "I love you" letter it would have become a totally different, her mental stability.

 

Essentially, to be blunt, she's bat**** lol

 

She'll likely end up shooting him (if Bio are turning over a new leaf) but then hurt badly afterwards. She is, still, in love with him.

 

I have to admit I was a little skeptical at first, by the one-size fits all, and how Umbara pushed for a DS character, but with three different letters I can see how it will eventually make sense. It's almost like the choices mattering on-the-go.

[Foambreaker]

blah blah

 

This is just another case of BW doing things on the cheap.

 

They were too cheap to make two stories:

Empire: It's Theron

Republic: It's Lana

 

And what would it have been, a few cut scenes? Most the rest is generic.

 

Either that or the idea never even dawned on them, are they that bad?

[Thruine]

I get the idea that some think if we can just sideline Lana and Theron we'd get more interaction but why make one of the two the traitor over the course of... how many months has it been? And still keep the others mute if that is the plan. Maybe I'm losing hope but this last bit... heck, throw in Iokath since they tie together, hasn't been for me. I felt like I got more game play and character development in the introduction of Dragon Age Inquisition than I've gotten with these.

 

For those that don't know, you wake up after escaping from spider death to be accused of killing everyone to then try and help close the rifts. You met two others who join your party and others who don't but are part of the story. There's a mini-boss fight (I guess that's what you call it) after some information is dropped on us. You all agree that we need to join up together to stop these breaches and then the title screen drops on us. That's basically it simplified. That's meatier than what SWTOR has given lately storywise without the fighting. Like Jace Malcolm gets introduced and it like oh, he's your dad, that's cool and moving on. Your PC, Lana and Theron are it and no talking from the peanut gallery. I did almost forget when you first got to Iokath we did get more from others but it feels like a year ago (was it? It wasn't was it?).

 

That's why I dislike throwing out one of the babies with the dishwater, we can't even manage to get one of the others to assist Lana hunting for him after the fact. I just can't tell where folks get the idea this means something more is coming which will be better. We are likely, quite highly in my opinion, to get new characters introduced as replacements. Everyone knows writers like new stuff too and no matter what we may like more, its going to be a single narrative for all. Each and every other companion (maybe not Arcann and Senya but they will probably go with the Alliance) represents the past we can't have. I'm just lost hope that this Alliance is going to ever be bigger than three (now two) people which saddens me because I love the Alliance. I just wish it felt more like one. This just continues to chip away at an already small element. Its great to some can see it as a sign of hope.

 

I guess that's what's annoying me so much. This release schedule is just too long for something of this nature to play out over. I need something more expansion sized. Let me play through that and if I like I'll come back for the next. We've just been slowly moving through and honestly I didn't like some parts. Like Iokath. I absolutely hated the way my commander was forced into a choice just because I was present (then had to basically carry the fight for them). Leading the Alliance isn't feeling like a leader since I have so little actual control of my inner workings. There's was nothing in that choice that really helped. It was basically a useless choice that really boiled down to weakening myself and someone gets to rejoin a missed faction. Its no wonder people are still wanting a return to Imp vs Pub because even though this was a choice of that, it felt so forced and pointless that it didn't matter. If you're wondering, I think the choice should have been on the two factions part since clearly the biggest power was the Alliance but okay I guess. Now this stuff. Being commander mean being impotent a lot of the time it seems.

 

I watched the romance and the dark side responses on YouTube last night. So on one he even makes less sense (someone broke down their video showing he didn't betray btw). He loves you guys and gals but its bigger than the both of you? So she's going to understand that because you only tried to murder her before. And its a force choke from the dark side folks who get an explanation that makes a lot more sense in their case. Until the last scene of him on the shuttle getting the acceptance. And of course the light side non romance option (that I saw was basically the same as the romance without the three "love" statements). So this really makes no sense for the romance option but kinda for the dark side one all of which will end in everyone losing his speaking part. That's the kicker, like I said, I don't think a traitor he be but I also think we all end up with the result of those that take the kill option.

 

I've talked about this more than it really bothers me. Its just maddening that we all know what a kill option means and so many are fine if they keep on treating characters that way for everyone. We should all be up in arms that its another character being sidelined regardless of the choice especially when we're down to so few as it is. For me, that's when I've got to call enough when you're down to two main companions and now one is going to be taken out regardless of what choice we make in the end. All because of how the kill option is implemented which so many apparently don't care to see changed.

 

And no, I'm not paying more to have what should be a part of the game naturally. I'm not into conversations that much that I'd let them nickle and dime me for them. Its just pushing more people out of the game in frustration as the game feels less and less of its former self. If I knew the kill option would be handled differently, I'd actually like this a lot more. Its interesting and something that feels like movement of the story this time unlike Iokath. But its bittersweet that all that is good with it means losing another of what little characters we have left.

[TyonYlle]

blah blah

 

This is just another case of BW doing things on the cheap.

 

They were too cheap to make two stories:

Empire: It's Theron

Republic: It's Lana

 

And what would it have been, a few cut scenes? Most the rest is generic.

 

Either that or the idea never even dawned on them, are they that bad?

I disagree. Do you have any inside info as to what they are planning? Please, by all means don't keep it to yourself, everyone in this obv wants to know.

 

 

You don't know what they have planned for Lana, so stop pretending as if you know what Bio will do.

[Eshvara]

I disagree. Do you have any inside info as to what they are planning? Please, by all means don't keep it to yourself, everyone in this obv wants to know.

 

 

You don't know what they have planned for Lana, so stop pretending as if you know what Bio will do.

 

Well I sure am eager to find out!! I'm ready for the next story right now!

[kodrac]

Well I sure am eager to find out!! I'm ready for the next story right now!

 

Stop changing your avatar. I don't know who you are anymore. Aaaaahhhhh!!