Marauder and Operative Nerfs in 5.4

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Really? Didn't notice that. Slaughter makes it so that we can use VT on anyone regardless of life too, it's core to our burst, so I didn't really notice that proc from ruthless Aggressor.

 

Annihilation's self-heal mechanics are a bit wonky as a self-heal is technically something that you click and it regains your health regardless of whether you're in combat or not. Annihilation can heal itself, sure, but you have to hit the target which majes healing while running away fairly impossible.

 

As for fury, I've talked with a couple of my mates who play it and they're argument against nerfing it is that CC immunity is part of what keeps Fury viable. Sure it has absurd burst, so that's what you should go after instead of the Obliterate immunity or whatever. Carnage has none of that. I trust you've played the game enough to see the PoV on this so I'll ultimately let you say whatever and not throw a fit about it, but these are just some things to consider from a long-time marauder main who has experience (if minimal) in all three specs.

 

That's true but it's non procced. You're not getting a proced VT damage out of it, you're getting like 11k out of it.

 

 

I agree with you about Fury, as far as Fury is concerned, that's part of what makes it not only special but viable. Let's be honest here, it's burst, while much more reliable than Carnage's, isn't quite as strong, the fact that they have superior mobility, that you cannot shut down their burst like u can with Carnage, that it's the best of the three for staying on target and has passive CC immunuties and strong slows, these are the things that make it viable, unique, and such a strong PVP spec to play.

 

We want three viable specs that all have thier own nitche, use, and can valuably contribute to any group, that's why maintaining their uniqueness from each other is so important, what one can't offer in one type of situation that other can, and so on. Taking away what makes them special and unique and what they are, that's what makes one spec better than another, and we don't need that.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

 

While i do find it weird that they consider concentration to be a quasi-burst spec (its definitely a pure burst spec), im okay with them calling combat a burst spec.

 

Whats funny here is that both Fury and Carnage users are both in agreement that Carnage is the psudo-burst spec and Fury is the Burst spec.

 

While carnage may have a higher damage burst potential, it's burst is unreliable and not hard to shut down. Which is why having decent sustain is important to the spec, because a 1 second differences can makes all the difference in the world. Fury's burst while perhaps a bit less damaging is at least reliable and it's front loaded to less set up, and resources are far less of an issue for Fury.

 

I'm all for buffing Fury some, but let's keep the style of play for the specs as they are. They can make Fury's burst bigger than Carnage if they like, but Carnage needs that sustained damage because it is too prone to losing windows and having thier burst on cooldown for another 10-12 seconds before they can even try it again. Without the sustain, the lost burst would change the nature of the spec.

 

A burst spec at least needs burst it can count on, front loaded, on demand. Carnage just can't be that and not suffer if it has little sustain.

 

Carnage has to be a psudo-burst spec, and Fury needs the freedom of action it's anti cc passives and extra mobility and defense for it be a strong burst spec in PVP.

[yellow_]

Whats funny here is that both Fury and Carnage users are both in agreement that Carnage is the psudo-burst spec and Fury is the Burst spec.

no they're not

 

stop saying that

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I'll be the first then.

 

A spec that does the vast majority of its damage in cycled 3 second windows between which you spam energy management and low/moderate damage filler abilities isn't the burst spec? I'll take some of whatever you guys are smoking. There isn't a spec IN THIS GAME, much less one specific to maras, that fits the description of burst spec better than carnage.

 

I'd love to see anyone look at the carnage DPS graph (huge spikes separated by lulls of barely any damage) and say that it's a "quasi burst" spec without any tingling of cognitive dissonance

 

p.s. there's no reason mara can't have 1 sustained spec and 2 burst specs. but if any of them are this silly "quasi burst" category, it's obviously not carnage

 

You equate damage with spec type. By that logic than, Anni isn't a sustained DoT spec because Lethality does more damage?

 

Your entitled to your opinion, but, most people who actually play the class agree, that is you have to put that "quasi-burst" spec label to one spec, it should be Carnage because it has such a limited span of time it can burst, and if that gets interupted, or delayed even for a second, that burst is no longer possible. Fury's burst, if it gets delayed, it can still burst the second it gets the chance to attack again, Carnage can't do that.

 

Again, you are entitled to your opinion, but I have been playing Carnage for 6 years and I don't play anything else. Burst specs are supposedf to be frontloaded. Carnage is anything but front loaded and it even has a ramp up time for it's burst.

 

If Fury has to delay a burst attack a few seconds, when he does it, its going to have the same damage potential no matter when it uses that attack, if Carnage has it's 'burst attacks' [and they shouldn't even be call that because they only do burst damage sometimes] delayed a few seconds, when it uses those attacks the damage difference of those attacks are tremendous.

 

Devistating blast used into a Ferocity Window - 22k. 2 seconds later, 14k. Same attack.

 

That sounds like psudo-burst to me.

 

If a carnage user gets half of his Ferocity windows off fully in PVP without being stunned, placed out of range, mezzed, slowed, completely shut down, or from any number or other causes he's lucky.

 

Psudo-Burst is the only way to describe Carnage and that is why it is very clear you have no experience whatsoever on the subject. You have never played Carnage in PVP or Operations, at least while actually knowing what you were suppose to be doing at any rate.

 

Furthermore, as Fury and Rage are literally the same exact spec, [Raging Burst isnt a clue?], it's kind of odd that Fury is labeled a psudo-burst spec while Rage is labeled a burst spec. Same exact spec.

 

Stop looking at graphs that show you nothing about how the spec is played. Those are numbers.

I can look up the average temperture of flowing lava, that's not going to tell me how hot it actually feels or what it looks like coming down the side of the Volcano, or what's the best way to get outside of the dust cloud, on foot or in a car.

 

Just becomes someone knows what the stats of all their favorite players on the Mets are does not make them baseball players.

 

Keep reading stats like that gives you a clue on how things are in motion.

 

Your probably one of those people who *****es at BW because you havent been able to reach the DPS the person with the highest DPS parse on Parsley has and think that means that what the average person can do.

 

The following is a description of the spec from the Carnage spec guide by Hayete for 5.0 -

 

"Carnage Marauders are the Fastest played spec in the game with Zero Damage over time [DOT] abilities that demand of the player to be quick and effecient and plays to the Lore of Ataru form. Any delay in attacks or time off target will cause the player to lose considerable DPS over time. For this reason mastery of the spec and the content it is to be played in in an absolute must."

 

https://www.hayete.net/carnage-guide

 

Unless of course you want to contend that you know better....

 

Deeds. Not words.

 

I guess I should have said, no one who actually knows what they are talking about based on first hand experience playing the class for more than heroics has said so far....

Edited July 25, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Beyrahl]

Devistating blast used into a Ferocity Window - 22k. 2 seconds later, 14k. Same attack.

 

Huh

22k Seems somewhat low, I feel you could optimize your stats a bit more. 14k Attack you're referring to what?

 

Just read the rest, holy man. There's no need to go in on someone because you think they don't play marauder/sentinel or combat/carnage. Just because you have experience it doesn't mean people don't have it also. It also doesn't make you the authority on it either. I've been playing it just as long as you and I can certainly say I couldn't care less what someone wants to classify carnage.

 

Also there are a few minor differences between Rage and Fury, for example Fury gets a bonus for raging burst after using furious strike. However Rage gets a retaliation proc instead, along with that Rage has 5% more critical damage.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Beyrahl
holy flame.

[Caeliuxrules]

Carnage is burst but it aint like fury at all. Upload damage burst is alot different than a ramp up proc burst class.

 

If anything carnage is a epiphany, a spec built on a timing situational moment. Used to be in ranked one of the best hard switch dps specs.

 

Fury is alot better by long shot for burst, in my opinion carnage needs another skill to be added or make scream be a chain effect proc as well with 2 burst moments.

 

Then we be talking. Carnage is alot of fun dont get me wrong, its missing some things..

Edited July 25, 2017 by Caeliuxrules

[yellow_]

if you think the fact that ferocity windows often get ruined or that fury has "front-loaded" damage plays any role in how bioware makes those categories then I'll repeat myself: I want some of whatever you're smoking

 

Psudo-Burst is the only way to describe Carnage and that is why it is very clear you have no experience whatsoever on the subject. You have never played Carnage in PVP or Operations, at least while actually knowing what you were suppose to be doing at any rate.

LOL, pulling the get good card when you'd be lucky to qualify as a regstar on the red eclipse or harbinger is a bold move

 

I probably play a dozen specs better than you play that one you've supposedly been maining for so long.

 

I'm a better mara in PVP than you and hayete. I bet you struggle to get out of silver. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/301149024784744448/339137019773190147/Screenshot_2017-07-24_16_09_15_761182.jpg

Edited July 25, 2017 by yellow_

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

if you think the fact that ferocity windows often get ruined or that fury has "front-loaded" damage plays any role in how bioware makes those categories then I'll repeat myself: I want some of whatever you're smoking

 

LOL, pulling the get good card when you'd be lucky to qualify as a regstar on the red eclipse or harbinger is a bold move

 

I probably play a dozen specs better than you play that one you've supposedly been maining for so long.

 

I'm a better mara in PVP than you and hayete. I bet you struggle to get out of silver. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/301149024784744448/339137019773190147/Screenshot_2017-07-24_16_09_15_761182.jpg

 

Well, you proved one thing that absolutely no one can deny, the last time you saw one, was on the day you were born.

 

Keep thinking your something special, Mr. PVP Superstar, and tell your imaginary girlfriend/ Ewok Doll that Grim and Hayete said hi.

 

And this year's Uber-Dork Commander award goes to.....

 

=]

 

Can't go wrong with the mantle over the fireplace....

 

Wow hehe. Funny part is, I bet u don't even get it hehe

 

P.S. Sweeping Slash says it all.

 

Keep fluffing those numbers pal.

 

What's even funnier, is that you think those numbers are good hahaha

 

Stand in the middle of four people and spam sweeping slash and wa la, fluff number city.

 

Just in case u weren't aware of it, anyone with aoes can fluff. No one even cares what your DPS rating is in an Operation, they only care about your total damage because any idiot with aoes can fluff their numbers like crazy.

 

All that damage and only one kill. That other dude killed three people with alot less damage, because he was doing real damage while u were working on your e-pen thinking that people are idiots and don't know what fluff damage is. Hell u named your character after fluff damage.

 

Single target is all anyone looks at it, and that only further proves where you are really at.

 

Hell Madness must be the new DPS kings than I guess!

 

Keep thinking your the King, fluff master.

 

 

 

Hit 10.6k single target, than you can talk.

Edited July 25, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Caeliuxrules]

And all sudden its a internet epeen match for the ages folks.

 

https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder361/21657361.jpg

 

Pixels is serious biz...

 

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

And all sudden its a internet epeen match for the ages folks.

 

https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder361/21657361.jpg

 

Pixels is serious biz...

 

😂😂😂😂😂😂

 

I bow my head in reverence to fluff DPS.

[yellow_]

you know if I made the mistake of pulling the "I'm better than you card" only to discover I was embarrassingly wrong I would probably resort to calling people virgins to distract from the egg on my face too

 

I'm *********** kidding

 

stick to typing up rambling, barely-coherent walls of ignorance that are reliably 800 words too long because you lack the wit to get your point across dude -- that's more in your league. wouldn't want to hurt yourself

 

p.s. I posted that screenshot to show that I am a 2500+ mara and you're a regstar at best

 

p.p.s. it was 100% single target damage btw

Edited July 25, 2017 by yellow_

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

 

I'm *********** kidding

 

 

If your screen name wasn't sweeping slash, I might have given you the benefit of the doubt.

 

You were kidding?

 

Sorry bub, when you say that after being rebuked, you loose credibility, and the fact that you stated u were better than Hayete means you don't even know who he is, because if you did, you would not have said that.

 

I don't believe you were kidding, you were too busy being a not nice word that ends with hole.

 

You see what me and you initially had was nothing more than a difference of opinion, which I was willing to respect and I said so, but you weren't, you thought you had something to prove and you thought that my having a different opinion that you gave you the right to be personally offending, and in attempting to prove something, you succeeded with flying colors, you proved something all right, I just don't happen to think it what was you were hoping for.

 

Now, I could put some screenies of my performance if you would like to compare, but, I'm going to leave that entirely up to you to decide. I was talking about something about the game, and somehow you mixed that up with something inside your pants.

 

I'll play along though. You let me know if you want to try to show my up publicly. I've got nothing to prove, but, I'm willingto play along if that's what you really want.

 

Your call bra.

Edited July 25, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[yellow_]

I'm kidding about saying that I might consider resorting to calling people virgins on the swtor forums if I embarrassed myself

 

you can't even read

 

You see what me and you initially had was nothing more than a difference of opinion, which I was willing to respect and I said so, but you weren't, you thought you had something to prove and you thought that my having a different opinion that you gave you the right to be personally offending

You have a very short memory. You are the one who broke out the "you're bad" card in order to try and prove your point. Once you've made that play (and been *completely* wrong) you can't really unmake it. And you definitely don't get to pretend like I was the one who went there. Edited July 25, 2017 by yellow_

[DenariusJay]

I don't get why they can't just give some love to concentration spec and leave combat what it is. Combat is weird because it's built around a quirky clipping mechanic that most players (like myself) fail at terribly. If you can't nail clipping and remember the blazing fast rotation that comes with berserk, then the only other choice is Concentration - which also has a wonky rotation that is easy to get lost in, specially in fast pace battles or battles with lots of knockbacks and aoe dodging (pve).

 

Neither are forgiving. Concentration damage can take a dump just as easily as carnage's and both specs need some type of tweaks. Concentration is way more yolo friendlier then carnage in pvp, carnage only shines with a healer. If you have no healer and are up against good regs you will be doing alot of cloaking and running, because no self heals and ez2shutdown burst window makes Carnage pretty subpar in regs. On the other hand, with a good premade, carnage is god mode. Ugh, the swing that the spec brings is so extreme, its either garbage tier with a bad team composition or totally utter god mode with 1 healer and a guard. I don't envy the balance team at all.

[yellow_]

I don't get why they can't just give some love to concentration spec and leave combat what it is. Combat is weird because it's built around a quirky clipping mechanic that most players (like myself) fail at terribly. If you can't nail clipping and remember the blazing fast rotation that comes with berserk, then the only other choice is Concentration - which also has a wonky rotation that is easy to get lost in, specially in fast pace battles or battles with lots of knockbacks and aoe dodging (pve).

 

Neither are forgiving. Concentration damage can take a dump just as easily as carnage's and both specs need some type of tweaks. Concentration is way more yolo friendlier then carnage in pvp, carnage only shines with a healer. If you have no healer and are up against good regs you will be doing alot of cloaking and running, because no self heals and ez2shutdown burst window makes Carnage pretty subpar in regs. On the other hand, with a good premade, carnage is god mode. Ugh, the swing that the spec brings is so extreme, its either garbage tier with a bad team composition or totally utter god mode with 1 healer and a guard. I don't envy the balance team at all.

agreed about leaving carnage alone; I hope they keep all the caveats and asterisks associated with having all your damage stuffed into ferocity in mind and take it easy on the spec with their changes but I'll continue to play it either way

 

the change maras need for pvp is a big *** nerf to ruthless aggressor

Edited July 25, 2017 by yellow_

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I don't get why they can't just give some love to concentration spec and leave combat what it is. Combat is weird because it's built around a quirky clipping mechanic that most players (like myself) fail at terribly. If you can't nail clipping and remember the blazing fast rotation that comes with berserk, then the only other choice is Concentration - which also has a wonky rotation that is easy to get lost in, specially in fast pace battles or battles with lots of knockbacks and aoe dodging (pve).

 

Neither are forgiving. Concentration damage can take a dump just as easily as carnage's and both specs need some type of tweaks. Concentration is way more yolo friendlier then carnage in pvp, carnage only shines with a healer. If you have no healer and are up against good regs you will be doing alot of cloaking and running, because no self heals and ez2shutdown burst window makes Carnage pretty subpar in regs. On the other hand, with a good premade, carnage is god mode. Ugh, the swing that the spec brings is so extreme, its either garbage tier with a bad team composition or totally utter god mode with 1 healer and a guard. I don't envy the balance team at all.

 

There is no reason why they can't just buff Concentraition. They can do whatever they want. It seems like some person is trying to make this into a competition between Carnage and Fury when there doesn't have to be anything to give or take from one to the other or lesson one to build the other. The specs are already done, it's already all their, just adjust the numbers. No style changes, no, well he's this kind of spec so he has to be that kind of spec. Did we need to make official new spec type names? The "psudo-burst" thing was used in the past to describe carnage years ago, but it wasn't official or anything, that was just a term some players used.

 

Lets have three equally viable specs, each with their own unique flair. I envy Fury's anti CC passives, I wish I had that as Carnage, but, that's Fury's gig. I don't want to take that from it, that's part of what makes it special. Their are supposed to be pros and cons to every spec. Doesn't have to be well this one is better than that one, it should just be this one is different than that one, but just as viable. They can give Fury the same DPS as Carnage for all I care, let's just keep the specs intact and to remain true to what they are and what people have come to love about them, so they don't have to change the play style.

 

At the end of the day we have more in common with each other than what's different. Different styles, yes, but Marauders one and all, and that's the part that matters.

Edited July 25, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

agreed about leaving carnage alone; I hope they keep all the caveats and asterisks associated with having all your damage stuffed into ferocity in mind and take it easy on the spec with their changes but I'll continue to play it either way

 

the change maras need for pvp is a big *** nerf to ruthless aggressor

 

If people feel strongly enough about Ruthless agressor, if they're not nerfing damage, by all means, nerf the hell out of Ruthless Agressor it if people feel it's necessary.

 

There is one thing I would point out though. Ruthless Agressor has no effect on weapon damage, another words, white damage, it only effects the tech or force bonus damage that get's applied in addition to the white damage [weapon damage], sometimes I think people think Ruthless Agressor is a lot more powerful than it actually is. Additionally, you can only use it on someone who is within 6' of you which means, maras aren't using it on Mercs or Snipers or anyone who isn't pretty much in melee range. So, it's really not terribly hard to avoid having placed on you if you are not a melee players.

 

Maras have to depend on others for heals and when there is no healer on their team, it can be hard, especially when pretty much everyone you will be fighting will probably have some amount of self heals, and I do feel that having self heals matters a great deal in PVP [it could not matter less in PVE], but, I'm not complaining that maras dont have self heals, they shouldn't, but, that is why their DCDs are so vitally important because its the only thing they can depend on. When you break down the cooldown times and the active times of the DCDs you come to the average time in your average length WZ being that a Marauder will be completely without an active DCD for over 50% of your average length WZ.

 

Even still, I'm a firm believer that a pure DPS class should not have self heals and would be against the idea of them getting some. I don't feel that Ruthless Aggressor is OP, but, I respect that there are some who have misgivings about it, and I am more than willing to agree to a nerf to it if most people feel it is overpowered.

 

Gotta be willing to bend sometimes. I won't raise an issue over it people think its too much as is.

Edited July 25, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[DenariusJay]

agreed about leaving carnage alone; I hope they keep all the caveats and asterisks associated with having all your damage stuffed into ferocity in mind and take it easy on the spec with their changes but I'll continue to play it either way

 

the change maras need for pvp is a big *** nerf to ruthless aggressor

 

I think it would be wise for them to leave the "caveats and asterisks" because it filters out the bads. Players that are really dedicated to this game and have the muscle memory and patience to learn carnage (combat) should have the best dps in the game to show for it. Playing combat was a humbling experience for me, after slugging through it for a few weeks and getting semi decent at it, I realized I just wasn't that caliber of a player, and simply hanged it up. I think its good for this game for people that have that dedication to get rewarded for it.

 

It's a hard class, and I tip my hat to those carnage players that stick it out in pvp, Lord knows I tried for a few months and submitted myself back to concentration because I can't wrap my head around what to do after the Ferocity window ends, besides taking a dps dump and camo + predo run away.

 

If they bumped conc' spec slightly (not to carnage level dps) then I think sentinel/mara would be in a good place. Ruthless aggressor should be a carnage only utility, I feel they need it the most. It's definitely OP with concentration, because of the built in CC immunity it already possesses. That's just my opinion though. I don't have any real argument to back that up.

[DenariusJay]

There is no reason why they can't just buff Concentraition. They can do whatever they want. It seems like some person is trying to make this into a competition between Carnage and Fury when there doesn't have to be anything to give or take from one to the other or lesson one to build the other. The specs are already done, it's already all their, just adjust the numbers. No style changes, no, well he's this kind of spec so he has to be that kind of spec. Did we need to make official new spec type names? The "psudo-burst" thing was used in the past to describe carnage years ago, but it wasn't official or anything, that was just a term some players used.

 

Lets have three equally viable specs, each with their own unique flair. I envy Fury's anti CC passives, I wish I had that as Carnage, but, that's Fury's gig. I don't want to take that from it, that's part of what makes it special. Their are supposed to be pros and cons to every spec. Doesn't have to be well this one is better than that one, it should just be this one is different than that one, but just as viable. They can give Fury the same DPS as Carnage for all I care, let's just keep the specs intact and to remain true to what they are and what people have come to love about them, so they don't have to change the play style.

 

At the end of the day we have more in common with each other than what's different. Different styles, yes, but Marauders one and all, and that's the part that matters.

 

I think your argument before about buffing Fury to Carnage level dps would make carnage meaningless (to an extent). I think you are correct about that and I hope they don't do that.

 

Fury, for all intents and purposes, appears to be a class designed for pvp. Everything screams "Play me for pvp" CC immunity, basic burst setup, these are things that shine in pvp. Buffing its damage to carnage level would be a mistake , IMO. It could use a slight buff in its sustained, and when I say slight I mean madness/balance style buff ((in otherwords, so small it won't matter))

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I think your argument before about buffing Fury to Carnage level dps would make carnage meaningless (to an extent). I think you are correct about that and I hope they don't do that.

 

Fury, for all intents and purposes, appears to be a class designed for pvp. Everything screams "Play me for pvp" CC immunity, basic burst setup, these are things that shine in pvp. Buffing its damage to carnage level would be a mistake , IMO. It could use a slight buff in its sustained, and when I say slight I mean madness/balance style buff ((in otherwords, so small it won't matter))

 

Ya know, as much as I hate to say, I agree with you, I do think it would kind of make Carnage a bit obsolete, but, I'm trying to demonstraite here that my feelings of concern over what might become of Carnage with the class changes is a selfish drive. I'm not trying to keep Fury down do Carnage can maintain it self. I recognize that Fury does deserve some attention and I really agree with your perspestive, I want all three specs to be viable, but above all I want them to maintain their character. To keep the play styles we have come to expect from them.

 

Carnage doesn't need to out class Fury as much as it does, and so you can give Fury a bump to DPS without making Carnage obselete. As you pointed out, Carnage, contrary to what some people think, is not an easy spec to play at all. I've neen a diehard Carnage player for 6 years, I love it, and I have tried the other two as well. But it's just Carnage for me. And I'm not complaining, it's hard, but I can do well with it, and I wouldn't ask for anything from BW to add to the spec, im more than happy with it the way it is. But even now, after all this time, progression raider, pvp, u name, I never find it 'easy'. It's always a Challenger and that makes it all the more rewarding when you do do well with it.

 

I want us all the be happy. All to have our moment in the sun, and all to be respected and desirable for any group. Like I said, first and foremost, we're Marauders first, spec comes second.

 

I really appreciate you speaking up and trying to keep the record straight about how carnage really is and how you see Fury from the inside as well. I thank you for that.

[mhobin]

Buffing Fury has never caused a problem before....

[Icykill_]

There is no reason why they can't just buff Concentraition. They can do whatever they want. It seems like some person is trying to make this into a competition between Carnage and Fury when there doesn't have to be anything to give or take from one to the other or lesson one to build the other. The specs are already done, it's already all their, just adjust the numbers. No style changes, no, well he's this kind of spec so he has to be that kind of spec. Did we need to make official new spec type names? The "psudo-burst" thing was used in the past to describe carnage years ago, but it wasn't official or anything, that was just a term some players used.

 

Lets have three equally viable specs, each with their own unique flair. I envy Fury's anti CC passives, I wish I had that as Carnage, but, that's Fury's gig. I don't want to take that from it, that's part of what makes it special. Their are supposed to be pros and cons to every spec. Doesn't have to be well this one is better than that one, it should just be this one is different than that one, but just as viable. They can give Fury the same DPS as Carnage for all I care, let's just keep the specs intact and to remain true to what they are and what people have come to love about them, so they don't have to change the play style.

 

At the end of the day we have more in common with each other than what's different. Different styles, yes, but Marauders one and all, and that's the part that matters.

 

Agree. I think the specs are fine. I play Fury and while I would love the sort of DPS Carnage can output, I understand that the different specs have their strengths and weaknesses.

I don't think Mara's should be touched because they are probably the most balanced class in the game. When they start messing around with the most balanced class before fixing the worst balanced, it will result in even worse balancing across all the classes and specs.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Icykill_

[merovejec]

Buffing Fury has never caused a problem before....

 

Fury has only been nerfed since launch and then only got a "optimalization" nothing else. Its still not a spec you can use for PVE not to speak of NiM raiding. It was great before for AoE fights, but those were few in the NiM raids.

 

Its now in a great place for PVP though.

[Lundorff]

There are so too many problems with your screenshots to support the conclusion you are trying to prove.

 

First off, I do acknowledge that your damage is on the high side for all the screenshots.

 

It is important to use damage per second (dps) when talking about a class overpreforming in damage, because it gives a reference to how close your damage is to the average maximum dps of each class/spec. For example concealment dps is roughly at a little below 5k dps. To put that in perspective marauders, snipers, and mercs are all at 7k. THESE NUMBERS ARE NOT RELATED TO PARSING NUMBERS (this is where biowear screws up). Parsing numbers are different than average maximum dps because you are not reflecting the Pvp aspect, such as using gcds for cooldowns or your target kiting you. Another thing to consider is how sustainable your class is. For example: PT's will have a maximum dps at around 7k when they are not focused and will sometimes dps higher than maras, but they also die much much faster than maras because their cooldowns suck and will usually dps at around 5k.

 

In regards to your warzones: Your screenshots do not show your dps. Your numbers do look high but we can not analysis them correctly because we don't know several factors, like what kind of warzone (objective based or deathmatch based)? Did everyone else suck and that's why their numbers are so low?

 

In regards to your arenas: You are now showing your dps and your dps looks very high, but I do notice that you aren't doing much healing at all. At least for having healers in your game you can do 200k heals just keeping hots on yourself. 350k if you keep hots on your healer. And around 500k if you are offhealing your whole team, keeping probes semi-decently up, and using kolto infusion off cooldown while managing your energy. Because your healing was extremely low most of the games I am guessing you were not being focused. Everyone knows that an operatives damage goes down the drain when he/she has to worry about keeping himself/herself up.

 

I was simply illustrating that con-ops can deal out plenty of damage in both regular warzones and in arenas. If the class was in need of DPS buffs, then surely I should never be able to have top 3 damage as a regular thing (caveat: no I will not have top damage against a premade).

 

And no I don't spend my time healing others, as there are plenty of healers about. and my kolto probes heal for crap all in this burst meta. I will rather slow / stun someone focusing our healer.

[kissingaiur]

This thread is brain numbing.

 

@Grim - Carnage is burst, please stop over thinking it. In regards to your discussion with Doc, Doc is one of the top PvP Maras in the game. He has a strong understanding of all the Maras specs. He is in good standing for top 3 Mara in solo ranked (2500+ rated) and activity playing Anni in group ranked as well as Carnage for group rank hardswap verse the best PvP group rank teams in the game. He understand the class on the highest level in regards to PvP. I would sit down and listen to him, maybe you could learn something.

 

In regards to the thread: The devs are going to be slightly nerfing the damage out put to Operative/Mara DPS because they are over preforming in PvE. That is it. These changes are not in reaction to how they are preforming in PvP what-so-ever. Why is there even a thread about this?

Edited July 25, 2017 by kissingaiur