All MMO's seem to have the same tone in their forums.

[ladyalchemist]

MMO forums are pretty toxic and always have been. Back when Everquest and DAOC were almost the only game in town, those forums were filled with the most vile language and attitudes. Oh and rage quits. SWTOR has nothing on them.

 

OUTSTANDING! Someone else who has played DAOC! I lOL when I see people refer to themselves as "veterans" when they date themselves all the way back to WoW... if that is so we must be dinosaurs, lol... because I date myself before DAOC.

[annabethchase]

I don't get the point of this thread. We are seeing in game the effects of the previous regime not taking their customers seriously: Those customers left and they haven't come back. A sizeable number of people express their final warnings before quitting by posting "rants" on the site. If I were the developers I would see huge value in seeing exactly why people are upset.

[ladyalchemist]

I don't get the point of this thread. We are seeing in game the effects of the previous regime not taking their customers seriously: Those customers left and they haven't come back. A sizeable number of people express their final warnings before quitting by posting "rants" on the site. If I were the developers I would see huge value in seeing exactly why people are upset.

 

I came back... and I am running into someone almost every day who has recently returned to game like I did.

[Tsillah]

I came back... and I am running into someone almost every day who has recently returned to game like I did.

 

There are two issues though.

 

1) If more people leave than come back, it's still a negative result.

2) Once people have had a big disenchantment, they are also more hesitant about spending cash in the CM.

 

I'm aware that coming back after a few months myself means they haven't lost me as a customer, but I bet that the bucks a mont I spent and 20 bucks I spent once to open Manaan (the rest I bought with credits) are but a shadow compared to the 150+ bucks a month I used to spend until about a year ago on those horrible cartel packs.

 

Also many people I know do not play anymore even though some of them, like myself are back. So in the overall balance, I definitely believe that SWTOR could do a lot better than it has been doing particularly since 5.0 which all but destroyed the endgame with Galactic Command.

 

Surely, you do not conted that this was a positive thing for the game. The forums were full of warnings before 5.0 came out. We've heard from beta testers afterwards that they warned against it and BW, like an unstoppable oil tanker, just went straight on and turned it into one of the top 3 disaster moments in this game.

 

1) The release of the game and BW's arrogant denila of issues (1.0)

2) The upping of existing endgame without adding new content and going full single storyline (4.0)

3) Galactic Command (5.0)

 

When the game released half the players left with a couple of months and BW just acted like it was the best game ever and everything would magically take care of itself, which it didn't. Two rounds of server merges, f2p and the cartel market were the result all of which were bad things but necessary things. That's why it's on the top.

 

With 4.0 we saw a much reduced list of new content in the release of an expansion compared to the previous ones. This meant two things: Endgame was just upped in difficulty and a lot of the raider community stopped playing the game, causing an negative effect on the average intelligence of the player base. This has also resulted in dumbing down the game ever since. Secondly, the lack of new content increased the importance of alts and cartel packs as surrogate content. This is why the cartel packs are so nefarious in my view. They are way overpriced, replace the function of actual content so the items have become a necessity to keep the game fresh and it's a gambling system on top of that. Also people clearly could see now that investing in the game via cartel packs did not result in BW actually investing more into the game.

 

With 5.0 Galactic Command was introduced which attacked the raider and pvp community which had barely been able to restore itself and completely cut f2p/preferred players out of endgame at the same time. I still question whether this has resulted in a positive effect for the game. Secondly, GC was such a bad system and it was the only gearing system, now also working as gambling packs. They were fully warned and went ahead anyway and spent the next 6 months fixing this mistake, which in my view has delayed new content. It should've been an alternative gearing system for content that was neither operation nor warzone but their one size fits all attempt clearly was a failure.

 

Now I agree that the internet and social media are toxic places that have as great plus that everybody can voice their opinion and has as a great minus that everybody can voice their opinion. And I agree that there is a lot of negativity in game forums, especially for MMOs.

 

But that doesn't mean there are no valid complaints. Also don't forget OP, that the people who play today are mostly not people who played 20 years ago and the current age of social media shows even more than before that we can learn from history, that we learn absolutely nothing from history.

[ladyalchemist]

There are two issues though.

 

1) If more people leave than come back, it's still a negative result.

2) Once people have had a big disenchantment, they are also more hesitant about spending cash in the CM.

 

I'm aware that coming back after a few months myself means they haven't lost me as a customer, but I bet that the bucks a mont I spent and 20 bucks I spent once to open Manaan (the rest I bought with credits) are but a shadow compared to the 150+ bucks a month I used to spend until about a year ago on those horrible cartel packs.

 

Also many people I know do not play anymore even though some of them, like myself are back. So in the overall balance, I definitely believe that SWTOR could do a lot better than it has been doing particularly since 5.0 which all but destroyed the endgame with Galactic Command.

 

Surely, you do not conted that this was a positive thing for the game. The forums were full of warnings before 5.0 came out. We've heard from beta testers afterwards that they warned against it and BW, like an unstoppable oil tanker, just went straight on and turned it into one of the top 3 disaster moments in this game.

 

1) The release of the game and BW's arrogant denila of issues (1.0)

2) The upping of existing endgame without adding new content and going full single storyline (4.0)

3) Galactic Command (5.0)

 

When the game released half the players left with a couple of months and BW just acted like it was the best game ever and everything would magically take care of itself, which it didn't. Two rounds of server merges, f2p and the cartel market were the result all of which were bad things but necessary things. That's why it's on the top.

 

With 4.0 we saw a much reduced list of new content in the release of an expansion compared to the previous ones. This meant two things: Endgame was just upped in difficulty and a lot of the raider community stopped playing the game, causing an negative effect on the average intelligence of the player base. This has also resulted in dumbing down the game ever since. Secondly, the lack of new content increased the importance of alts and cartel packs as surrogate content. This is why the cartel packs are so nefarious in my view. They are way overpriced, replace the function of actual content so the items have become a necessity to keep the game fresh and it's a gambling system on top of that. Also people clearly could see now that investing in the game via cartel packs did not result in BW actually investing more into the game.

 

With 5.0 Galactic Command was introduced which attacked the raider and pvp community which had barely been able to restore itself and completely cut f2p/preferred players out of endgame at the same time. I still question whether this has resulted in a positive effect for the game. Secondly, GC was such a bad system and it was the only gearing system, now also working as gambling packs. They were fully warned and went ahead anyway and spent the next 6 months fixing this mistake, which in my view has delayed new content. It should've been an alternative gearing system for content that was neither operation nor warzone but their one size fits all attempt clearly was a failure.

 

Now I agree that the internet and social media are toxic places that have as great plus that everybody can voice their opinion and has as a great minus that everybody can voice their opinion. And I agree that there is a lot of negativity in game forums, especially for MMOs.

 

But that doesn't mean there are no valid complaints. Also don't forget OP, that the people who play today are mostly not people who played 20 years ago and the current age of social media shows even more than before that we can learn from history, that we learn absolutely nothing from history.

 

Since coming back, I have noticed some issues... some of which you so eloquently describe above. So I am certainly not going to make a case that there is nothing wrong in the game. I CAN say that I am enjoying what I do in game... and that mostly because I avoid the RNG monster like the plague. I have spent money in the CM in the past and will do so again... but never have - and never will - buy a single cartel pack.

 

That's a decision based on principle because I don't believe in supporting that business model. I don't believe that a game should reserve the best gear (or best looking gear) to a gambling model that you have to pay real money for. Paying loads of real money for a rare % drop is... I have no words...

 

I wasn't here when 4.0 and 5.0 rolled out, but I can imagine the discontent in the player base for the reasons you describe. So I avoid getting caught up in the GC RNG grind for rare drops on my return to the game. Gambling for rare successes makes me angry and frustrated... e.g. my decision not to fully participate and get myself caught up in it. I used to raid a lot previously. This time around I don't want to get myself into another job. I'm here to relax, not add to my stress level.

 

I spend time reading about my game - that's why I come to the forums to see what's happening. So yes, I can see these problems. And I can see that the population on planets and the fleet is nowhere close to what it once was. But the fact remains that I am seeing returning players constantly. How long will they remain? That's up to Bioware, I suppose. I think they returned for the same or similar reason I did... I couldn't find a decent game out there to compare to the enjoyment I had here. But I can also see that the quality of writing has taken a nosedive as well. What the heck happened to that? And the inability to enjoy story content with others in the later expansions is a very puzzling decision on their part.

 

How long will I stay? I don't know... but I don't see myself leaving in the very near future. That's also up to Bioware... I came back; it is their job to retain me and others like me.

[JattaGin]

One thing to keep in mind is the demographics of people writing in MMO-forums. You would have to take a look at the real life of typical MMO-players. I don't want to demean others, so I choose myself as an example:

 

It is Sunday afternoon, outside is great summer weather. Sun is shining. There is a big music event in town today. I see happy people walking outside my flat on the street walking towards the center, beer in their hands or icecream.

 

I myself am sitting at the computer and reading the Swtor forum, even writing something. I am in my 40s, single, my last date was almost a year ago and it was so horrible that I'd rather have none than another one like this.

 

Now, in my case, I'm luckily a quite happy fella nonetheless. But I could also be a grumpy, self-loathing, lonely dude who defines a big part of his personality by how he facerolls lowbies in PvP. And then his class gets nerfed. Rage, rage, rage.

 

And then put thousands of such people together et voilá, you have a wonderful toxic community. It doesn't really have much to do with the games themselves. It's the same in any other kind of thing. Maybe forums about gardening are more peaceful.

 

Basically, the more someone rages here on this board, the more you can tell about his real life personality. Do you remember the Youtube video of this boy who enrages because someone kills him in some shooter game? It's a spoof, but it's very accurate.

 

You know it's true.

 

Lighten up.

 

(And of course, there are many other kind of personalities playing MMOs. It's just an example.)

[Thruine]

I don't get the point of this thread. We are seeing in game the effects of the previous regime not taking their customers seriously: Those customers left and they haven't come back. A sizeable number of people express their final warnings before quitting by posting "rants" on the site. If I were the developers I would see huge value in seeing exactly why people are upset.

 

See, to me this is incorrect. Every game at some point does that one thing that kills it (even if it continues for decades afterwards like EverQeust). I remember the first time I heard of WoW losing subscribers was with the Cataclysm expansion. If I remember right that is. And WoW was the one game that gained subscribers as it aged. Then it happened and it had plenty in its forums shouting about quitting and unplayable before. There's simply no one for any game to really understand and accept such feedback from players because games are a creative process. Unfortunately or fortunately they aren't the creative process of players.

 

We may like to think we know all there is to know about them. We may like to think we have more insight into what will and will not work. But a lot of what we do know about the games we play is based on where we are at that moment in our lives and our emotional state. A single small nerf (and I hate game companies that refuse to acknowledge they are nerfing something) can cause any one of us at any time to spiral out of control and become a toxic forum troll.

 

I'm no more immune to this than anyone. While I really enjoy SWTOR currently and think its honestly the best game to play, I feel completely opposite towards ESO having just quit that game. The only game in my many years of MMOs to have crossed a line with me. I stomped my foot. Ranted and raved. Didn't do a rage quit because I think those are simply embarrassing for the poster. I just left once I got it all out. ZOS is the worse company for me and it will never see another penny from my pocket. And some may feel that way about SWTOR which is fine. People will like different things and I do think people get too hung up on others liking something they don't. Happens when talking with friends about movies. You always have that one or two who can't believe you didn't like something they did. Or worse, liked something they didn't. Like we all have a standard to meet.

 

I'm getting away from my point which was Bioware was going to do something people would point to as the reason. And I'm sure it played a part. But if you're having fun then you're having fun so it shouldn't matter. If it affects that one thing you did to have fun then the forums will probably see that angry forum post. This is just my opinion. Just like I think some of the classes that got nerfed didn't get nerfed enough even though some are crying how their class is unplayable now. We see things differently and that means we have to accept that Bioware also sees things differently than some. I guess its like artwork. I don't know much about art but I know what I like.

 

I know this is getting long but I think I'm a very positive person in general. I spend a lot of time playing. Its the one thing I'm able to do without problems. I have no issue dropping a game to play something else. I could drop $100 today on SWTOR and quit tomorrow if I just wake up wanting to play something else. I care about my characters very deeply. But I'm not married to them. I have characters across a dozen games. I miss some of them but I'm sure they're okay if I don't visit any more. I just don't get that attached which we see a good deal in forums. Even in SWTOR, my main character just means that's the one I started first and done the most on. Doesn't mean I'll play him this week or next. My interest just sometime wander and its rare I've ever been bothered by any nerf in any game. The only game I ever had an issue with where it was just unplayable for me was DCUO back when Sony got hacked.

 

Hopefully that wasn't too long and I didn't lose sight of what I meant to say

[annabethchase]

... I have no issue dropping a game to play something else...

 

This is the fundamental difference. Many players do not want to leave, they are forced to leave by lack of content or negative decisions. They want to play the Star Wars MMO, but they find that there's specific things making it no longer an enjoyable experience. So they ask for the changes they want, and then either get them or leave.

 

This is incredibly logical behavior, even if the actual phrasing of the requests often come with hysterics and hyperbole.

[feylyndiira]

One thing to keep in mind is the demographics of people writing in MMO-forums. You would have to take a look at the real life of typical MMO-players. I don't want to demean others, so I choose myself as an example:

 

It is Sunday afternoon, outside is great summer weather. Sun is shining. There is a big music event in town today. I see happy people walking outside my flat on the street walking towards the center, beer in their hands or icecream.

 

I myself am sitting at the computer and reading the Swtor forum, even writing something. I am in my 40s, single, my last date was almost a year ago and it was so horrible that I'd rather have none than another one like this.

 

Now, in my case, I'm luckily a quite happy fella nonetheless. But I could also be a grumpy, self-loathing, lonely dude who defines a big part of his personality by how he facerolls lowbies in PvP. And then his class gets nerfed. Rage, rage, rage.

 

And then put thousands of such people together et voilá, you have a wonderful toxic community. It doesn't really have much to do with the games themselves. It's the same in any other kind of thing. Maybe forums about gardening are more peaceful.

 

Basically, the more someone rages here on this board, the more you can tell about his real life personality. Do you remember the Youtube video of this boy who enrages because someone kills him in some shooter game? It's a spoof, but it's very accurate.

 

You know it's true.

 

Lighten up.

 

(And of course, there are many other kind of personalities playing MMOs. It's just an example.)

 

^^^THIS....1000x. Aside from the being single part, I'm right there with you. And I'm currently writing SWTOR fanfic to top it off. And I play shooters....and laugh at all the kids you describe who feel the need to cuss me out in PMs when they get their butts handed to them by a 47-year-old housewife. ;-)

[Tsillah]

How long will I stay? I don't know... but I don't see myself leaving in the very near future. That's also up to Bioware... I came back; it is their job to retain me and others like me.

 

The game does have a lot of good things in it, that should not be forgotten. It goes wrong when developers hype themselves up so far that they do not want to accept criticism in any shape and form. I saw that in the first 6 months of the game and I saw it again coming up to 5.0 in the same way. I can't even remember the name of the guy but he was always talking about how "exciting" this all was while the world around him was screaming that it was crap. He just ignored it. He's gone now and I firmly believe it was because of this GC disaster. I wish him well still, we're all humans, but that level of "la la la, I can't hear you, la la la" was very frustrating.

 

When I see how Keith communicates, well, that's a lot more real to me. He can apologise for things that go wrong and seems to be wanting to look at solutions. You know, openly. Of course games aren't perfect and there's always something to fix, but with better communication a lot of anger and frustration can be avoided. Believe me when I say this forum has had MUCH darker days. They are now mild by comparison. I certainly believe that the improvement in communication is at least for a part to thank for that.

 

All they need to do really is to recognise when it goes wrong, say sorry and start talking solutions...and listen to the warnings a bit more. There's a lot of blind anger but there are also things that you can take seriously and that will help avoid really bad situations. We saw it go wrong with GC, we saw it go wrong before with the slot machine debacle and there's more I don't need to repeat. Keith seems to be more down to earth and I do appreciate that.

 

I hope for 6.0 they are thinking in terms of what can we do that wants to make people do it more than once. This is what's been missing for me. Uprisings (unsurprisingly) got boring fast and the stories of KotFE and KotET don't have much replay value at all. So this content is not doing what it's supposed to. This has been the problem with FPs for a longer period of time as well. They need to go back to story telling that makes you enjoy going through it another time and another time. Currently the storylines are flat and hang together by shock effects and contrived cliff hangers of sorts. The problem with that is that as soon as you know that x will die or y will come back from the dead or z will turn on you and there's really nothing more to the story beyond that outside of killing skytroopers, then you get the problem that once you did the story once, you don't really want to do it again because you know what's going to happen and there's nothing beyond that to really enjoy about it. At least that was my experience.

 

Now that was criticism. Some will agree and some will disagree, but this is something that many more people reported as their experience. So they went from 8 stories to 1 Jedi Knight story that has no replay value for many players. The question then becomes, what does BW do with such feedback? And are they able to do better?

 

Those are the questions I find interesting.

[Andryah]

One thing to keep in mind is the demographics of people writing in MMO-forums. You would have to take a look at the real life of typical MMO-players. I don't want to demean others, so I choose myself as an example:

 

It is Sunday afternoon, outside is great summer weather. Sun is shining. There is a big music event in town today. I see happy people walking outside my flat on the street walking towards the center, beer in their hands or icecream.

 

I myself am sitting at the computer and reading the Swtor forum, even writing something. I am in my 40s, single, my last date was almost a year ago and it was so horrible that I'd rather have none than another one like this.

 

Now, in my case, I'm luckily a quite happy fella nonetheless. But I could also be a grumpy, self-loathing, lonely dude who defines a big part of his personality by how he facerolls lowbies in PvP. And then his class gets nerfed. Rage, rage, rage.

 

And then put thousands of such people together et voilá, you have a wonderful toxic community. It doesn't really have much to do with the games themselves. It's the same in any other kind of thing. Maybe forums about gardening are more peaceful.

 

Basically, the more someone rages here on this board, the more you can tell about his real life personality. Do you remember the Youtube video of this boy who enrages because someone kills him in some shooter game? It's a spoof, but it's very accurate.

 

You know it's true.

 

Lighten up.

 

(And of course, there are many other kind of personalities playing MMOs. It's just an example.)

 

Extremely well expressed.

 

MMO player bases are very much a diverse group of special interests, with different personalities, cultures, and approaches to life. Any studio is going to be facing a giant challenge of herding cats as a result.

 

And to extend the analogy a bit... anyone who knows cats knows that they are fiercely independent, self involved, like to pounce, and will scratch and bite.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Andryah

[Andryah]

OUTSTANDING! Someone else who has played DAOC! I lOL when I see people refer to themselves as "veterans" when they date themselves all the way back to WoW... if that is so we must be dinosaurs, lol... because I date myself before DAOC.

 

Ah yes... DAoC forums.... that was some really toxic stuff sometimes. And this was way before Facebook and other social media.

 

And that was back in the day, when the studio did not have it's own forums but rather forums on one of the main game discussion sites that the studio called the defacto forum home.

[Damask_Rose]

MMO forums are pretty toxic and always have been. Back when Everquest and DAOC were almost the only game in town, those forums were filled with the most vile language and attitudes. Oh and rage quits. SWTOR has nothing on them.

 

The forums I frequented for AC were quite friendly and civil. There were a few jerks, but they were a small minority and easily ignored. The forums had a tight community feel to them. Very different from the cesspools you seem to have experienced in those other games.

[Transcendent]

2) Once people have had a big disenchantment, they are also more hesitant about spending cash in the CM.

 

I'm more hesitant about dropping the money on a monthly sub on a continuous basis, let alone the CM. I've provided my feedback on the subject though, in a constructive manner, which is still ignored. I'm fine with that, what works for one player doesn't always work for another. I guess I'm in the minority, otherwise they would be making u-turns on certain changes.

 

Either that or everyone else has the patience of saints!

[Andryah]

The forums I frequented for AC were quite friendly and civil. There were a few jerks, but they were a small minority and easily ignored. The forums had a tight community feel to them. Very different from the cesspools you seem to have experienced in those other games.

 

Heh... I agree with you that forums for AC were generally pretty civil and there was a lot of fluidity in the community between in game and in forum. So yeah.. it had a tight knit feel to it, rather then playing out like an ongoing series of drive by rantings and character assignation attempts we see so much in newer game venues.

 

But that was almost 20 years ago.. and the internet food chain has changed radically since then.

 

A lot of the toxicity we see now days in MMO forums actually has a lineage back to the early days of the WoW forums. Because of the very large scale of that game and it's forums.. it gave the ideal forum for a minority of misfits. And with that.. other MMOs followed suit and what used to be a minority, became a vocal presence in gaming forums over the last decade or so.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Andryah

[Tsillah]

I'm more hesitant about dropping the money on a monthly sub on a continuous basis, let alone the CM. I've provided my feedback on the subject though, in a constructive manner, which is still ignored. I'm fine with that, what works for one player doesn't always work for another. I guess I'm in the minority, otherwise they would be making u-turns on certain changes.

 

Either that or everyone else has the patience of saints!

 

Haha. Well, I think in the end we all have to decide what something's worth to them. I don't mind to pay the monthly sub because for 10 bucks a month I get to hang out with some friends regularly. That's the only value I need from it nowadays. I enjoy the world as it is.

 

However, I also enjoy decorating strongholds a lot and to me that's a game activity just like warzones or operations. Except I have to spend a LOT more money to do that since the decorations are behind that huge paywall called cartel packs and the drop rates of these items are just too low.

 

I either have to spend hundreds per pack release in real money or up to half a billion in credits to get a minimum amount of decorations needed, to decorate properly. I have a pretty high standard I guess compared to most but I am not the only one who takes their decorating seriously and it's just more about spending money than actually decorating.

 

So I've given up on the idea. I just try to decorate left and right and then leave it again because BW made it into something that's either a 1000 chairs for conquest game or a hobby of the game's rich and shameless.

 

Just an example of how BW can kill good ideas. Bottom line is that I just gave up on it and stopped spending money on cartel packs period. On the GTN any decent decoration costs over 1 million these days and when you need 12 or 20 of them it gets wildly expensive very quickly. Also Manaan just came out, but all the Selkath stuff we got before like couches and chairs are just not available anymore...maybe you can find a couple here or there at outrageous prices.

 

They are clearly not looking at it from the point of view of a decorator. But it also means I stopped spending cash on it. I suspect more people have stopped and this is probably part of the GTN prices that have gone up dramatically in the last 6 months.

 

I'll be honest. I'm glad that gearwise I have what want. The lightsabers I wanted. The tunings I wanted. The gear sets I wanted. Most of the mounts I wanted. So I don't need the new cartel packs anymore because they simply can't outdo what was done.

 

The only reason would be decorations but as I said, they are too expensive. I mean you can by a special pack with decorations for Manaan. It has 1 lamp in it. I collect lamps in sets of 4 and usually require at least 12 to 24 for a theme in a single stronghold. This is the sort of thing that BW is completely deaf to. On the GTN there are none and if they ever do get there it'll be like 20 million a pop.

 

Meh, I could go on and on about this topic but I'll stop here.

 

But you get the picture. There is something inherently customer unfriendly about how they handle their cartel packs. I no longer need them for the gear thank ****, but I have to give up basically on being able to collect what I need for one of my favourite things to do in SWTOR. That sucks but it's not worth spending 1500 Euros/Dollars in a year for.

 

It just isn't.

[Thruine]

This is the fundamental difference. Many players do not want to leave, they are forced to leave by lack of content or negative decisions. They want to play the Star Wars MMO, but they find that there's specific things making it no longer an enjoyable experience. So they ask for the changes they want, and then either get them or leave.

 

This is incredibly logical behavior, even if the actual phrasing of the requests often come with hysterics and hyperbole.

 

Well, that's sort of what I'm saying only cut the hystarics out so we can get down to the actual problem. I can't imagine how the devs do their forum reading jobs. Even I just give up if the topic has some veiled threat or the body is just one gripe after another. I mean, what is your problem specifically is what I keep wondering. I'm not sure the pay to have to read some of this stuff could ever be worth it. I wouldn't be surprised that the previous devs didn't not only listen to themselves too much but couldn't get a clear read from posters for all the noise. We don't do ourselves any favors acting like toddlers. We see what happens when the parents try to understand a child that can't speak yet. Its probably not much different.

 

That's not to say everything is sunshine and roses. Of course there are issues. I've had issues. I wish some things were different. I have searched for a simple Jedi robe with the hood down (but visible) like the consulars wear but I can't seem to find one for the knight. I'd ask for it but I already feel like there's so much clamoring for things that I'll just be adding on to no effect. Why do I have issues with the preview function. Why do my favor strongholds not have a ship dock when its right there. Does every Twi'lek just accept that they lekku get stabbed by every object in teh game. What's a Twi'lek trooper going to do with that? At times my companions just take a break from healing for some reason or decide they are actually dps at the moment even though it still indicates they are healing. Those are just little things I have issues with. I haven't been playing long enough to run out of things to do or worse having to do the same thing over and over if I'm playing so I understand that frustration.

 

I just don't understand when saying what you want to say means burying it then getting mad because they didn't have a shovel. I hadn't play this game because I wanted a Star Wars game in the present (their present no mine) and that was my mistake for prejuging it. I might have some of those world bosses killed by now. I have never once gone into a resturant and told the waiter to please not spit in my meal. I expect him to not spit in it. That's how I approach my games. Make them so I want to keep playng and the only reason I stop is because I just don't want to any longer. I don't expect to be ran off but when I am, I will always assume you will spit in my meal so we're done. That's all I'm saying.

 

The game has issues. And maybe they'll be resolved. But they might not be. Either way, its okay to stop playing and do something else. No one's desire for a Star Wars game should mean they subject themselves to bad product. Don't accept and move on. Or accept it and make the best ot things. Either way, remain decent when talking to another person whether you know them or not. Its just incredible to me that we should ever have to ask for people to dail it down. Don't act like that guy that terrorized some game maker. That's just pathetic and we don't need to even come close to seeming that way. Like I said, I don't always abide by that myself. But I find if something is just pissing me off the best way to take care of myself is to remove what's causing it. A game is easily removed from my daily list of things to do. Not when I have like a dozen waiting. So I always expect game developers to hit it out of the park and retire when they can't see the ball. No game that I know of ever really bats 100% and those that don't often do so again and again. I just say that's fine and okay but don't wonder why I stopped playing if that's your best effort. And that includes even after a change at the top.

[Icykill_]

Complaints against the devs, "Do this or I'll quit," "This game is failing," "I had to reroll because my class sucks now thanks.".....

I guess you either roll with it and adapt, or you stop playing MMO's and play console? After 20 years of MMO's you'd think people would understand that it's just the nature of the beast.

 

Except this moved away from being an MMO for 2 years, so lots of people don't understand... add to the fact that they don't listen to real feed back and you can understand why people aren't happy here...

It's why a lot of people have actually done as you suggest... left the game

[annabethchase]

... A game is easily removed from my daily list of things to do. ....

 

MMORPG's are not disposable products, they are meant to be played consistently for years. It is not good when people leave in a matter of months from subbing or re-subbing.

[MingusPho]

Star Wars as an intellectual property has an established standard of excellence that many of those other games don't have. I don't mean to inflame the argument but players of SWTOR have good reason to be angry. I think that from a fan's perspective expectations of a Star Wars universe/mmo aren't being adequately met.

 

I grew up when the original films were in the theaters and to this day I still get excited when I hear the classic sounds of a lightsaber igniting, Vader breathing through his mask, Chewbacca's gutteral howl, or even blaster fire. There is a plethora of minutiae that this game has skipped over and continues to overlook or dismiss as inconsequential while they add new content in any form.

 

I complain on these forums as much as I do because swtor doesn't feel as much like starwars as it should. I keep playing because I love starwars and this is the only option as far as mmos go.

 

They should hire a consultant from lucasfilms, a former writer from the franchise, or somebody to point things out and say "Hey! Bad! No!"

 

I could expound on this further but I didn't read all the other posts, don't want to hijack your thread, and really just had to say my piece.

[jpscjpsc]

Star Wars as an intellectual property has an established standard of excellence that many of those other games don't have. I don't mean to inflame the argument but players of SWTOR have good reason to be angry. I think that from a fan's perspective expectations of a Star Wars universe/mmo aren't being adequately met.

--snip--

 

LOL yes the standard of excellence that has been established is quite low though. The reason BioWare have SWTOR is because KOTOR was the greatest piece of Star Wars entertainment since Ep 5. Much of what has been done in the Star Wars universe is sub-par in terms of quality in my opinion.

[feylyndiira]

OUTSTANDING! Someone else who has played DAOC! I lOL when I see people refer to themselves as "veterans" when they date themselves all the way back to WoW... if that is so we must be dinosaurs, lol... because I date myself before DAOC.

 

DAOC was my first graphics-based MMO! I must be a true dinosaur since my first MMO was Gemstone III...totally text-based.

[Thruine]

MMORPG's are not disposable products, they are meant to be played consistently for years. It is not good when people leave in a matter of months from subbing or re-subbing.

 

For me though, they have up to the point of my stopping to impress me and keep me impressed. When I start to get bored or something, they are in danger of losing a subscriber. And that doesn't even address if I wake up and just decide to quit or play something else from now on. I don't accept any responsibility for supporting someone else (some times the kids but even then....). I don't understand why people let their love (of Star Wars in this case) or their duty or even happiness be determined by a group of people they don't even know all because they made a video game that we play. Plus we pay them not the other way around. Their hope should be to entertain not draw people in with falsehoods leaving them so broken they can't control themselves like people keep claiming but won't leave the cage.

 

Whatever the case, like my mother once told me nothing excuses rudeness. The internet may be full of it but that does not mean its much easier to get things fixed if we follow suit. Plus, I think Bioware needs to rethink their Cartel Packs. I don't know of one single game which has introduced these type products which haven't laid ruin to everything around them. It starts with little happening in the game world and then little in the store. Pretty soon, the most content being added is the content in packs. So, I would rethink them because I'm positive you and your customers will come to regret their addition (do game companies all hire from the same agency that come up with these things... probably based out of Vegas).

[TUXs]

That's not really true, There's quite a few thank you threads on here when BW does something nice.

I agree. You can find what you want on most forums...if you believe they're all negative, it will appear that way because you're looking for it. When Bioware does something right, people speak out positively.

 

Most forums are a mix of good and bad...you just gotta be careful with what you read. I tend to only comment in threads with topics I feel strongly about...good and bad. My replies are honest...not intended to ever be one or the other in excess.

[robertthebard]

Except this moved away from being an MMO for 2 years, so lots of people don't understand... add to the fact that they don't listen to real feed back and you can understand why people aren't happy here...

It's why a lot of people have actually done as you suggest... left the game

 

It did? So all those other people running around or in FPs, Ops or PvP were actually AI? Man, that's a lot of AI running around. They did get away from Operations for a very long time, of course, with all the flak they got about some of them, I can't say as I blame them, but meh, to each their own, I guess.