Sorc performance in 5.3

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Just wanted to share this so people can see what Sorcs both DPS and heals are capable of. First day out no less.

 

Been doing wzs for the last few hours, ive done like 10 and sorcs are everywhere. I couldn't believe it.

 

Anyways, if nothing else, this should show people that they shouldn't give up on their sorcs if they love them. Might not be where you would like them to be, and honestly, while I can understand that Sorc heals was doing better than other healers, I think the nerf was too extreme personally, and I still do.

 

 

https://ibb.co/e0ezea

 

This is just one WZ, but i've seen other instances of similar performances. I'm only posting this one because there were so many sorcs! 10 out of 16!

 

I also did an arena and the enemy team was all sorcs, 3 DPS one healer, and my team was a PT, A marauder [myself], an Operative, and a Sniper. My team won one round and the sorc team won two.

 

I think they're going to be okay in WZs. Just one day though so it's by no means "conclusive evidence" of anything but, it shows promise. This is what they can still do. Even still, I can't believe they nerfed DPS sorc self heals! Wth?!?

 

 

This should give people some relief, at least I hope it will, that sorcs can still hold their own in WZs. Some outstanding games I've seen quite a few sorcs do very well, both as Madness and Lightning.

[Qunarin]

I think the devs need to stop bowing down to PVP needs, Sorc heals got hit massively, I used to heal 11K easily in ops, yet now I can barely scratch 9.5K and i'm running out of energy because I'm ignoring the consuming darkness to try and scratch out more heals, yet even with the consuming darkness, the energy return isn't very profitable. Frankly they need to revert sorcs to what they were for PVE, and then keep the nerfs in PVP, since PVPers are the ones getting all the bio-love, and the NiM raiders are getting the shaft. I already had to give up lightning sorc since it was nerfed into the ground when I got back into the game, now i just learned the sorc heals and this is being nerfed into the ground. Why even have a sorc class? And sorc heals aren't the best heals, Merc heals are if played correctly, seen in plenty of times in raids.

[alexsamma]

 

https://ibb.co/e0ezea

 

 

 

Posts a screenshot of a game with stacked healers

One team is stacked with sorc dps

Both sides have a **** ton of healing

Team with stacked sorc dps loses

Thinks this is proof that sorcs are fine...

 

Haven't tested anything myself (don't really care tbh), but this is probably a horrible example to use to show that sorcs are fiine.

[-Bob-]

I think the devs need to stop bowing down to PVP needs, Sorc heals got hit massively, I used to heal 11K easily in ops, yet now I can barely scratch 9.5K and i'm running out of energy because I'm ignoring the consuming darkness to try and scratch out more heals, yet even with the consuming darkness, the energy return isn't very profitable. Frankly they need to revert sorcs to what they were for PVE, and then keep the nerfs in PVP, since PVPers are the ones getting all the bio-love, and the NiM raiders are getting the shaft. I already had to give up lightning sorc since it was nerfed into the ground when I got back into the game, now i just learned the sorc heals and this is being nerfed into the ground. Why even have a sorc class? And sorc heals aren't the best heals, Merc heals are if played correctly, seen in plenty of times in raids.

 

You shouldn't have been exploiting sorc heals so much. The Devs gave you what you deserve.

[Glocko]

One thing we can be sure of is that Sor, Mercs, Snipers, Assasins, Marauders and operatives will be fine, thank heavens. One other thing we can be sure off after this patch R.I.P. PTs And Juggs, all is right in the world

 

I think this makes sense though because only terrible PVPers would choose Jugg or PT therefore their DPS is crappy. Better all round players flock to sniper, Op, Marauder Merc and Assasin so the numbers become skewed

Edited July 11, 2017 by Glocko

[Kuvox]

J

https://ibb.co/e0ezea

 

This is just one WZ, but i've seen other instances of similar performances. I'm only posting this one because there were so many sorcs! 10 out of 16!

 

I also did an arena and the enemy team was all sorcs, 3 DPS one healer, and my team was a PT, A marauder [myself], an Operative, and a Sniper. My team won one round and the sorc team won two.

 

That's a crazy amount of sorcs! I'm seeing loads of snipers but pretty much the same # of sorcs.

[Hoppinswtor]

I mean

 

madness average parse 9300

lightning average parse 9300

self heals nerfed 5 percent

sorc heals nerfed 17-18 percent

 

frequency =/= good performance

Edited July 11, 2017 by Hoppinswtor

[jenlen]

Sorc as a DPS class now equals this:

 

Sorc Ability: Summons a Sorc which will follow you and passively observe you on your adventures.

 

The class might as well be Stronghold decorations or pets.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Posts a screenshot of a game with stacked healers

One team is stacked with sorc dps

Both sides have a **** ton of healing

Team with stacked sorc dps loses

Thinks this is proof that sorcs are fine...

 

Haven't tested anything myself (don't really care tbh), but this is probably a horrible example to use to show that sorcs are fiine.

 

Does that in any way change the fact that they were able to to do those numbers? The numbers were exactly the point of the post to show people that they can do those numbers even with nerfs.

 

You don't win PVP matches because of higher DPS most of the time. It's nice sure, it certainly helps, but in the Arena I referred to that my team lost on, I had the highest DPS all 3 matches, didn't make us a win.

 

 

And, if you are too dumb to remember that I specifically stated "this isn't proof of anything", than that's on you for being dim witted. Don't make it out like I was saying this "proved a thing" in the overall. Quote me saying that it "proves that Sorcs are fine"? But, it did prove that even with the nerfs, that people are still able to get those numbers and in that regard, it is proof positive. If they can do it once, how much you wanna bet they won't have lost the ability to do those numbers again?

 

Everything is circumstantial in MMOs. Raiding, PVP, 1v1, everything. RNG effects every attack you make and RNG is like mother nature. You are not beating her. Sometimes it'll go more in your way, other times it will F in the ***, but that goes for every class and spec in the game.

 

I was trying to offer a ray of sunlight on a Sorc player base that feels very poorly right now and is sad that the class they love might be made obsolete. I wasn't offering assurance, I was offering hope.

 

I don't even play a Sorc, you couldn't pay me to play one, that doesn't mean I don't care about the feelings of others and the demoralization many who love the class are feeling right now. Seeing what is still possible for them might make some feel a tad more hopeful. I don't considering making such an overture to them misleading.

Edited July 11, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[stu_ungar]

sorc ability: Summons a sorc which will follow you and passively observe you on your adventures.

:d:d:d:d

Edited July 11, 2017 by stu_ungar

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

One thing we can be sure of is that Sor, Mercs, Snipers, Assasins, Marauders and operatives will be fine, thank heavens. One other thing we can be sure off after this patch R.I.P. PTs And Juggs, all is right in the world

 

I think this makes sense though because only terrible PVPers would choose Jugg or PT therefore their DPS is crappy. Better all round players flock to sniper, Op, Marauder Merc and Assasin so the numbers become skewed

 

I'm just curious, how do you account for the numbers PTs and Juggs are capable of putting out? Take another look at the screen shot I put up and look at the juggs. They look like they're hurting to you? That is not a case of exception, that is a case of the rule. Juggs absolutely rip *** in regs, and AP DPS was always strong [ in recent times] and pyro even is looking pretty nice. PTs are not the blow them over type some people try to make them out to be for some reason. They have an insane amount of ranged options should they choose for a melee [both Thermal Detonator and thier basic attack have a 30' baseline, even if the basic attack doesn't do much damage, its still a hell of alot more ranged options than any other melee class in the game has available to them and AP has Pressure Overrides which allows them to use Explosive Fuel which grants Pressure Overrides, allowing Flame Burst, Magnetic Blast, Searing Wave, Firestorm, Shatter Slug, Deadly Onslaught, Heat Blast, Energy Burst, Immolate, and Scorch at 30 meters for 15 seconds [That's an insane amount of ranged attacks for a melee spec.] While their DCDs could use some love, their CC kit is nothing short of stellar with utility options that can double the normal effectivenss. Even Pyro will be putting out some nice damage now.

 

I don't know on what server you play on, but on the Shadowlands PT and Jugg DPS is insanely good, granted some of that is from fluff, but a lot of it isnt. Juggs also have a strong CC kit of thier own. PT and Jugg CC kits aren't like stealth classes are, but they are extreme strong and aggressive. If the Juggs on your server aren't doing well in regs, that's not because of the class. Juggs hit like mack trucks, and AP PTs have sick burst, at least for those who know how to play the specs.

 

I'd be very surprised if that finding was much different on most servers.

 

Ranked is something else, but a lot more people play regs than ranked and your comment made no such distinctions.

Edited July 11, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[alexsamma]

Does that in any way change the fact that they were able to to do those numbers? The numbers were exactly the point of the post to show people that they can do those numbers even with nerfs.

 

You don't win PVP matches because of higher DPS most of the time. It's nice sure, it certainly helps, but in the Arena I referred to that my team lost on, I had the highest DPS all 3 matches, didn't make us a win.

 

 

And, if you are too dumb to remember that I specifically stated "this isn't proof of anything", than that's on you for being dim witted. Don't make it out like I was saying this "proved a thing" in the overall. Quote me saying that it "proves that Sorcs are fine"? But, it did prove that even with the nerfs, that people are still able to get those numbers and in that regard, it is proof positive. If they can do it once, how much you wanna bet they won't have lost the ability to do those numbers again?

 

Everything is circumstantial in MMOs. Raiding, PVP, 1v1, everything. RNG effects every attack you make and RNG is like mother nature. You are not beating her. Sometimes it'll go more in your way, other times it will F in the ***, but that goes for every class and spec in the game.

 

I was trying to offer a ray of sunlight on a Sorc player base that feels very poorly right now and is sad that the class they love might be made obsolete. I wasn't offering assurance, I was offering hope.

 

I don't even play a Sorc, you couldn't pay me to play one, that doesn't mean I don't care about the feelings of others and the demoralization many who love the class are feeling right now. Seeing what is still possible for them might make some feel a tad more hopeful. I don't considering making such an overture to them misleading.

 

I pointed out that posting an image of a super heal heavy game with one side that has a ton of sorcs and that side losing is probably the worst tie in for a post that is trying to say that sorcs "seem" to be fine, if you're "too dumb" to understand why this image runs counter to your entire post then "that's on you for being dim witted"

 

The change to sorc is not "game breaking," but it is very very noticeable

dps sorcs melt even faster

bursting through healing sorcs is definitely easier, as is setting up swaps

 

Without testing this in ranked it's basically a mute point since the lack of matching is still leading to heal/tank heavy match-ups, but my initial post that your screenshot does not support the meat of your argument is still valid.

Edited July 12, 2017 by alexsamma

[Foambreaker]

Just wanted to share this so people can see what Sorcs both DPS and heals are capable of. First day out no less.

 

Been doing wzs for the last few hours, ive done like 10 and sorcs are everywhere. I couldn't believe it.

 

Anyways, if nothing else, this should show people that they shouldn't give up on their sorcs if they love them. Might not be where you would like them to be, and honestly, while I can understand that Sorc heals was doing better than other healers, I think the nerf was too extreme personally, and I still do.

 

 

https://ibb.co/e0ezea

 

This is just one WZ, but i've seen other instances of similar performances. I'm only posting this one because there were so many sorcs! 10 out of 16!

 

I also did an arena and the enemy team was all sorcs, 3 DPS one healer, and my team was a PT, A marauder [myself], an Operative, and a Sniper. My team won one round and the sorc team won two.

 

I think they're going to be okay in WZs. Just one day though so it's by no means "conclusive evidence" of anything but, it shows promise. This is what they can still do. Even still, I can't believe they nerfed DPS sorc self heals! Wth?!?

 

 

This should give people some relief, at least I hope it will, that sorcs can still hold their own in WZs. Some outstanding games I've seen quite a few sorcs do very well, both as Madness and Lightning.

 

This has more to do with CXP than anything and that it is the first night. People can't just change overnight.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I pointed out that posting an image of a super heal heavy game with one side that has a ton of sorcs and that side losing is probably the worst tie in for a post that is trying to say that sorcs "seem" to be fine, if you're "too dumb" to understand why this image runs counter to your entire post then "that's on you for being dim witted"

 

The change to sorc is not "game breaking," but it is very very noticeable

dps sorcs melt even faster

bursting through healing sorcs is definitely easier, as is setting up swaps

 

Without testing this in ranked it's basically a mute point since the lack of matching is still leading to heal/tank heavy match-ups, but my initial post that your screenshot does not support the meat of your argument is still valid.

 

 

 

The screen shot was an example of nothing more than what people have been doing. You can make any conditional arguments you like, but you cannot argue that people did these numbers and unless the conditions are unique that means such performances are possible. I have been PVPing more and I am seeing the same sort of performances over and over again. At this point, I do not consider the fact that is was "healer/Sorc heavy" relative because im seeing like numbers in all different scenarios.

 

How it may perform in ranked isn't how it will perform in regs necessarily. If you are an elites type and only consider Ranked to be a the measure stick, there is no point in continuing to talk because that view is superfluous to the overall state of the class and meaningless gauge of the norm. That's no better than basing class balance on dummy parses, conditional. Ranked scenarios are not how things play in the areas of play that have the majority of players involved in. The ranked population is small, outside of ranked, how it plays there is irrelivant. Besides, Juggs have a hard time in ranked, but they don't have those same issues in regs. Like many other regs players, I could give two shyts about ranked. You may think ranked is the only standard by which to judge the classes across the board, but I don't. Ranked is your province, ill leave ranked to you.

 

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, I am showing them something and letting them draw their own conclusions.

 

https://ibb.co/mHZGsv

https://ibb.co/fDgkkF

https://ibb.co/ibGUCv

 

Different scenarios, different group make ups, different people. These are the performances of Sorcs both DPS and healing that I am encountering.

 

It is not proof of anything and it is not intended to suggest "everything is fine with sorcs". I am not trying to impress one belief or another on that, I have no basis to do that first hand. I don't play a sorc, sorc players are more than capable of making their own conclusions on the state of things.

 

My only intention was and is to show that they are not useless, unplayable, and can perform effectively in the right hands it seems and that they shouldn't give up playing something they may love because some people are saying they should remove sorcs from the game. Furthermore this speaks to nothing in regard to PVE, PVE is a totally different beast than PVP.

 

This is what I have been seeing in PVP. Is it good or is it garbage? You tell me. I'm not the judge here and quite honestly neither are you.

 

None of this intended to try to present the notion that sorcs are fine or that they don't need future consideration.

The only thing I will say, is they are far from useless, and trying to make people not play them because you are unhappy with the state of things isn't exactly a noble endeavor on your part. I'm not trying to keep them down, I'm trying to lift some spirits for those who may be feeling poorly about things. I do not want to see people giving up on them and re rolling a FOTM. That won't help sorcs either. I think nerfing DPS sorcs self heals and Bubble was a terrible thing to do. They should have buffed their self heals, not nerf them. While perhaps sorc healers were over performing, I'm not saying they were, but if they were, I still feel the nerf to them was too severe. As far as I am concerned, sorcs should be the best healers in the game without question. I am so happy that some people seem to be sticking with it, and spurning the nerf in the face by still doing very nice numbers. That may be because they are extremely skilled with the class and not Representative of the actual state of things.

 

Quitting over it is fine, rerolling a FOTM because some people are saying they are useless is something else entirely. If they nerfed the class I loved most more than I thought was justified, I would quit the game, I wouldn't add to the FOTM problem by becoming one.

 

I'll take a sorc healer in PVP over a merc or operative healer any day, nerfed to hell or not, but that's just me. Feel free to think whatever the hell you like.

Edited July 12, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Icykill_]

Just wanted to share this so people can see what Sorcs both DPS and heals are capable of. First day out no less.

 

Been doing wzs for the last few hours, ive done like 10 and sorcs are everywhere. I couldn't believe it.

 

Anyways, if nothing else, this should show people that they shouldn't give up on their sorcs if they love them. Might not be where you would like them to be, and honestly, while I can understand that Sorc heals was doing better than other healers, I think the nerf was too extreme personally, and I still do.

 

 

https://ibb.co/e0ezea

 

This is just one WZ, but i've seen other instances of similar performances. I'm only posting this one because there were so many sorcs! 10 out of 16!

 

I also did an arena and the enemy team was all sorcs, 3 DPS one healer, and my team was a PT, A marauder [myself], an Operative, and a Sniper. My team won one round and the sorc team won two.

 

I think they're going to be okay in WZs. Just one day though so it's by no means "conclusive evidence" of anything but, it shows promise. This is what they can still do. Even still, I can't believe they nerfed DPS sorc self heals! Wth?!?

 

 

This should give people some relief, at least I hope it will, that sorcs can still hold their own in WZs. Some outstanding games I've seen quite a few sorcs do very well, both as Madness and Lightning.

 

But they were Madness Sorcs, correct ?

 

I've not seen as many Sorcs as you. I started playing an hour after the patch and played till about 6 hours ago. The most numerous classes I've seen are Sins, Maras and Operatives. There are still some Mercs, but they seem to be left over FOTM players because they aren't that good. Most of the other classes are equally represented but Sins are the most prolific

 

Edit: nice dps on your Mara 😊😘

Are you on Harby?

Edited July 12, 2017 by Icykill_

[Jake_Chambers]

Just my thoughts on the patch...

I'm not noticing too much of a resource difference post nerf, but then again I always built extra consuming darknesses into my rotation to save force for burn phases.

The biggest things are that innervate crits and roaming mend crits for me cap out at 8k and 15k respectively in full 248. The roaming mend is very noticeable and suddenly bursting someone back up to full isn't as strong as it was, of course.

Another thing is that the spec feels slower due to longer innervate and force bending procced dark infusion. Just something to get used to. We still have better tools than any other healer class and the burst heals are still better than merc imo. Don't try to heal through pressure tho.. lol

[alexsamma]

A lot of text

 

Once again, my initial response called out your imagine, nothing more nothing less.

 

I specifically said that trying to determine if the sorc nerfs are overboard or not is not possible in regs because of the lack of match making creating lopsided teams.

[Donchivasregal]

I think the devs need to stop bowing down to PVP needs, Sorc heals got hit massively, I used to heal 11K easily in ops, yet now I can barely scratch 9.5K and i'm running out of energy because I'm ignoring the consuming darkness to try and scratch out more heals, yet even with the consuming darkness, the energy return isn't very profitable. Frankly they need to revert sorcs to what they were for PVE, and then keep the nerfs in PVP, since PVPers are the ones getting all the bio-love, and the NiM raiders are getting the shaft. I already had to give up lightning sorc since it was nerfed into the ground when I got back into the game, now i just learned the sorc heals and this is being nerfed into the ground. Why even have a sorc class? And sorc heals aren't the best heals, Merc heals are if played correctly, seen in plenty of times in raids.

 

I think you are a bit braindead. PVP hasn`t been adressed for almost a year now. Every change that has been made was pve oriented. Instead of crying that sorc heals have been nerfed, a class that healing wise was definitely OP, maybe learn how to heal on a normal character. The pvp community (me included) have been asking for class balance for quite some time. Tough luck my friend, class balance means some characters get buffed, some get nerfed. Sorry if you were on the wrong side of the fence.

[-Highsteel-]

https://ibb.co/ibGUCv

 

This was a few days before 5.3. I would say it's not relevant now, but do agree as far as Sorc heals not being as doomed as many make it out to believe.

[Icykill_]

That healing nerf for dps hurts.. especially for lightning 😡

[Wimbleton]

In about 25 games played as heals so far, I feel like I'm putting out about 85% of what I was. Not nearly as bad as everyone QQd about. Instead of being 2 mil ahead of the next closest op/merc healer, I'm pretty much in-line (not counting the obvious bads). Edited July 12, 2017 by Wimbleton

[mmmbuddah]

I think the devs need to stop bowing down to PVP needs, Sorc heals got hit massively, I used to heal 11K easily in ops, yet now I can barely scratch 9.5K and i'm running out of energy because I'm ignoring the consuming darkness to try and scratch out more heals, yet even with the consuming darkness, the energy return isn't very profitable. Frankly they need to revert sorcs to what they were for PVE, and then keep the nerfs in PVP, since PVPers are the ones getting all the bio-love, and the NiM raiders are getting the shaft. I already had to give up lightning sorc since it was nerfed into the ground when I got back into the game, now i just learned the sorc heals and this is being nerfed into the ground. Why even have a sorc class? And sorc heals aren't the best heals, Merc heals are if played correctly, seen in plenty of times in raids.

 

Sorc healer was far far far far too easy before this patch. It is where it should be now. Play a scoundrel healer, and then get back to me.

[Kurj]

I saw a good few sorc healers who have respec'd to madness last night. I'm not sure it did them much good, because their teams were sorely lacking in healing, with predictable results.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

But they were Madness Sorcs, correct ?

 

I've not seen as many Sorcs as you. I started playing an hour after the patch and played till about 6 hours ago. The most numerous classes I've seen are Sins, Maras and Operatives. There are still some Mercs, but they seem to be left over FOTM players because they aren't that good. Most of the other classes are equally represented but Sins are the most prolific

 

Edit: nice dps on your Mara 😊😘

Are you on Harby?

 

Ya know, I'm not really sure over all, there were so many of them in there with 10 of em! I know at least one of them was a lightning sorc for sure and suspect one other one was as well, but I think most of them were madness, save for the healers.

 

I 've been seeing a lot of Assys and Operatives as well, havent noticed more maras though, with the sorc heals nerf I think some more are a bit concerned about less heals for them because they're totally dependent on healers for health increases when wounded.

 

First day out I didn't notice less healers, but today it seemed there was a sharp decline in them which wasn't fun and a lot of people were complaining about the lack of healers. I'm hoping that it was just a coincidence and not a trend or a sign of the times. Surprisingly I'm not seeing less DPS Sorcs for some reason, I would have thought there'd be a sharp decline of them. Could just be people trying out Madness to see how the buff plays out live. There's some really good lightning sorcs on my server who do well, but they're extremely good players or the kind that they can make anything work well, so not your average joes to be sure.

 

I give a lot of credit to people who don't give in to the times and stick with the underforming specs instead of just re rolling a FOTM but I guess you really can't blame those that do. I think the damage of sorcs is less an issue in PVP and more about their inability to go toe to toe with many other specs, if their survivability was such that they could stick out a battle of attrition longer when enemies get in their face close up they'd be more competitive at least. They have some nice mobility though and it isn't always so easy to stay on them. Even perdation can't keep up with them when they use force speed. The phase walk obviously is a very effective 'ohh shyt' button, but that mobility comes at the expense of DPS so some more DPS couldn't hurt heh. In a week or two we'll get a better idea how they are measuring up with the other rDPS DPS nerfs. Madness can put up some nice numbers in PVP but it's a lot fluff unfortunately.

 

I'm all for less healing for DPS specs, but Sorc DPS needs more self heals than other DPS specs and quite honestly they should have the best self heals out of the DPS specs. They should have a heal to half DCD added to em at very least or something that increase their defense chance by 50% for six seconds or so. They need to give them something.

 

I play on the Shadowlands, it's a great server.

[Stellarcrusade]

The hybrid healer classes have a chance of actually killing someone while staying alive. The Sorc healer has only 1 job, healing. Heal self, heal others and stay alive as much as possible. You'll almost never see a healer sorc kill someone by himself. His DPS comes from the people he is keeping alive.

 

So nerfs that go too far eliminates his ability to heal people around him, meaning he no longer has DPS. And it cuts into his ability to stay alive. So a sorc healers job now is to hit the bubble, phase walk to a somewhat predictable spot they will find you and kill you at, or not queue. What helps the team more, not queueing does. Too bad for all non-merc non-sniper classes that wont have a role anymore without healing too.