5.3 Change : Node Capping no longer prevented by AoE DoT's

[Aresnar]

I would like to discuss this change and decided it was better in the PvP forum then in the Sniper/Gunslinger thread.

 

Hey folks,

 

The second change isn’t listed in the notes above because it isn’t a change specific to Engineering / Saboteur. It’s not even a change that has any effect on PvE. For a very long time now, single-target damage over time effects have not interrupted characters from capturing PvP objectives, largely because if they did it would make capturing PvP objectives extremely difficult (nigh impossible, some might say). But until now, that hasn’t prevented all of the area of effect damage over time abilities in the game from interrupting a character who is trying to capture a PvP objective. In 5.3, this will be changing: all AoE DoT abilities, including Plasma Probe / Incendiary Grenade, will be joining Toxic Haze / Bushwhack as abilities that do not interrupt a character who is in the process of capturing a PvP objective.

 

 

While I am happy that AoE DoT abilitiies do not prevent capping, I would like to strongly suggest that the initial damage (or to be more clear the first DoT) does interrupt capping.

 

This feels good for me, in that while AoE DoT's no longer completely prevent capping, you can still use them to interrupt a cap (once).

 

So anyone else have ideas / feedback about this?

[Wimbleton]

Unnecessary. There are plenty of tools to stop capping and stop capping AOE. Making the user choose something he wouldn't normally use in standard rotation to stop AOE cap (and possibly have energy repercussions) is a good thing.

[stoopicus]

I would like to discuss this change and decided it was better in the PvP forum then in the Sniper/Gunslinger thread.

 

 

 

While I am happy that AoE DoT abilitiies do not prevent capping, I would like to strongly suggest that the initial damage (or to be more clear the first DoT) does interrupt capping.

 

This feels good for me, in that while AoE DoT's no longer completely prevent capping, you can still use them to interrupt a cap (once).

 

So anyone else have ideas / feedback about this?

 

I posted in the other thread, but this change would be useless; Plasma Probe, Chilling Scream (w/Piercing Chill), and other AoE dots are spammable. For your change to work it would need a cooldown attached to these abilities.

 

Unnecessary. There are plenty of tools to stop capping and stop capping AOE. Making the user choose something he wouldn't normally use in standard rotation to stop AOE cap (and possibly have energy repercussions) is a good thing.

 

That too.

Edited July 5, 2017 by stoopicus

[Stellarcrusade]

The change to make AoE no longer stop capping is the single best improvement they have decided to make since 5.0 launch. Great Idea.

 

This is because it was way way way way way way way too easy for the 1 button classes to simply cast their favorite spell all day long and do everything they need to do with 1 spell. It is way too hard for a superior large group to cap a node against a 1-2 defender team as it is, with AoE's it was nearly impossible. Frankly, it is dumb when a group of 7 or 8 has to kill all the reds standing there in order to cap, only to see another 1 red show up and prevent them for another 5 minutes until another 1 red shows up. Its lazy. With the rise of OP sniper in 5.0 many wars end with whoever gets the first 2 nodes will win because no node switching will ever happen. Boring. Might as well just end the war once one side gets 2 nodes.

[Master-Nala]

While I would agree with this for single target DoTs, I think it's still unfair for AoE DoTs. Allows you to break two cappers without even needing to target and with no cooldown.

[zhezvya]

Boring

 

SWTOR was never as boring as since 5.0. In all aspects. It's a shame. I get fed up with PvP really quick nowdays which makes me sad.

 

I too welcome this change.

[RACATW]

SWTOR was never as boring as since 5.0. In all aspects. It's a shame. I get fed up with PvP really quick nowdays which makes me sad.

 

I too welcome this change.

 

+1

Finding it hard to stay interested with all the terrible changes and the way hordes of subscribers weren't listened to about gearing.

 

In fact I am playing maybe once every two weeks, when my sub period expires again I don't know if I will bother paying them to do nothing about it or class balance for ages on end.

Edited July 5, 2017 by RACATW

[septru]

While I am happy that AoE DoT abilitiies do not prevent capping, I would like to strongly suggest that the initial damage (or to be more clear the first DoT) does interrupt capping.

 

I think that is fair. This way the AoE does not really work as a DoT but rather as a one time ability, much like how frag grenade or smash would also stop a cap. However, there would need to be a defining cooldown on what is the initial damage from the AoE because a sniper should not be able to spam the Plasma Probe button, and repeatedly put down new plasma probes to reset the initial damage. For example: maybe once every 10 seconds a new Plasma Probe initial damage can stop a cap.

[Evolixe]

A very good thing indeed.

 

Just the stuff that you can put down and forget about though. Channels and single use AoE abilities very much should still stop a cap. But that seems to be happening so yeap \o/

[Elusive_Thing]

I think that is fair. This way the AoE does not really work as a DoT but rather as a one time ability, much like how frag grenade or smash would also stop a cap. However, there would need to be a defining cooldown on what is the initial damage from the AoE because a sniper should not be able to spam the Plasma Probe button, and repeatedly put down new plasma probes to reset the initial damage. For example: maybe once every 10 seconds a new Plasma Probe initial damage can stop a cap.

Or maybe people should just go the extra mile and occasionally change a single ability in their rotation. The Op/Scoundrel DoT AoE has never stopped caps, I have no idea why other such abilities should.

[stoopicus]

Yeah, this change is the best thing to happen in a long, long time. Doesn't need any further change at all. Edited July 6, 2017 by stoopicus

[themachinemann]

I While I am happy that AoE DoT abilitiies do not prevent capping, I would like to strongly suggest that the initial damage (or to be more clear the first DoT) does interrupt capping.

 

This feels good for me, in that while AoE DoT's no longer completely prevent capping, you can still use them to interrupt a cap (once).

 

So anyone else have ideas / feedback about this?

 

not objecting to your suggestion, just not really sure what its purpose would be besides keeping uptime on plasma probe/inc grenade. also it's inconsistent with other dots (not all of them) that don't interrupt cap when applied. snipers and gunslingers already have suppressive fire/sweeping gunfire, both channeled aoe's and will prevent the cap.

Edited July 6, 2017 by themachinemann

[Aresnar]

To clarify my position a little :

 

The reason for my suggested change is that to me the major OP part of plasma probe & similar abilities (in terms of Node Capping) was the fire and forget part.

 

Example:

 

- Sniper drops plasma probe near node while it's being capped by players.

- Sniper unleashes boatload of damage with other abilities either on capper or others while not having to worry anymore about the node itself.

 

While my suggested change would allow a Sniper (or other classes) to spam abilities like Plasma Probe there would be :

 

- An opportunity cost as in the Sniper would not be able to unleash other abilities while having to spam plasma probe (similar to channeled AoE's, your channeling an AoE you are not doing anything else).

- Some resource cost.

- Most importantly to me it would require interaction/choice by the defending player. Rather then fire & forget.

 

To further elaborate, I don't really care what ability a player uses to interrupt a capper (Single Attacks, Semi-AoE, AoE all good) but that it should be a deliberate choice of the defending player, rather then an automatic fire and forget.

 

That is why I don't have an issue (and would even prefer) the initial damage of a DoT to interrupt a capper as it would require interaction by the defending player.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Aresnar

[Gyronamics]

it would require interaction by the defending player.

 

You interact with one player from 35m for a split second and decap anyone in a 16m circle with no cooldown. That's some good interaction right there.

 

Doesn't need to be spammed but because it has no cooldown there's nothing that really offsets how easily it can be used to prevent an objective.

 

It's not as if there's no options, there's Frag Grenade for a 10m aoe hit with a cooldown of 6s, Suppressive Fire for channelled 16m aoe from cover. Absolutely anything for single target.

 

But what you want it left as is the most braindead defensive tool in the game. 35m, instant, 16m circle and decaps without CD.

[stoopicus]

If it weren't for the cheezy "human wall - can't target" defense I'd go as far as saying *no* AoE should interrupt cap - they are much too easy to interrupt with.

 

But the cheez defense works too well and that was a disaster when they tried it, so we are stuck with it.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Posted this in the other string -

 

 

I think that wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that plasma probe can just be reset whenever the sniper wants it to. There's no cool down. They can just sit there and constantly reapply a new plasma probe every second this way it's almost always the "first" tick. They don't need to wait the 9 seconds before reapplying a new one. If it had a cool down or couldn't be reapplied until the 9 second duration expired, that'd be one thing, but that's not the case with plasma probe.

 

Such a 'loop hole' could be easily abused.

 

I see no reason for reducing the damage on plasma probe though.

 

Plasma probe is still going to be doing the same thing to melee it already did, making 50 from 70% does nothing to mitigate the fact that it is spammable and can have 100% uptime AOE damage. It's still going to be ridiculous in the other regards as it always was. I personally don't feel that nerf went far enough. No CD is the biggest part of the problem with it as it can effect countless enemy players at the same time. Fluff damage galore to boot.

 

Plasma probe makes taking continuous AOE damage from start to finish defending in Voidstar virtually unavoidable for melee to say nothing of the slow. You have firing squads standing 10-30' and just lighting melee's *** up at the same time while they are fighting/stopping people from setting bombs.That it can be used from 35' away, outside of the attack range and gap closer range adds insult to injury, not that it would matter of they were closer and in range of gap closer because you can't leap to snipers anyways. Further, it is hardly their only manner of effecting movement of melee. Plasma probe is a preposterous ability and clearly in need of further changes imo.

 

The change that will make it no longer used to prevent capping is a welcome change and I am grateful for that part, that just added to it's ridiculousness. That alone can change potential outcomes.

Edited July 6, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[mmmbuddah]

Wasnt this tested a while back and shown to be a horrible idea and no one wanted it?

[stoopicus]

Wasnt this tested a while back and shown to be a horrible idea and no one wanted it?

 

If I remember tight that was a nerf of all AoEs tested on PTS a while ago which is what I was referring to - I could be mistaken though.

Edited July 6, 2017 by stoopicus

[Gyronamics]

Wasnt this tested a while back and shown to be a horrible idea and no one wanted it?

 

No because that was about all AOE.

 

This is DoT AOE as in you place the ability and it ticks in the ground with zero input from the player and no channel needed.

 

Snipers have many baseline aoe decap options without plasma probe.

[Stellarcrusade]

If it weren't for the cheezy "human wall - can't target" defense I'd go as far as saying *no* AoE should interrupt cap - they are much too easy to interrupt with.

 

But the cheez defense works too well and that was a disaster when they tried it, so we are stuck with it.

 

Even though I am a huge fan of this change, I do agree. Don't you wish there was a target-next-person-who-is-currently-trying-to-cap button?

 

But really, the change makes it so that a large group can cap against a small group easier, that doesn't change with this problem.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Stellarcrusade

[Foambreaker]

Yeah, this change is the best thing to happen in a long, long time. Doesn't need any further change at all.

 

This, dots of any kind breaking objective cap is dumb.

[Gyronamics]

This, dots of any kind breaking objective cap is dumb.

 

Some of the earliest relics were damage proc on damage and they caused dots to decap by the relic triggering from dot damage.

 

Not many will still have those and not sure how they got bolstered.