Choices Matter? Class Stories Matter!

[Typhaos]

I suppose a compromise would be to make four stories...imperial/republic force users and imperial/republic non-force user stories, that way there would still be adequate flavour to make it feel more unique to each class.

 

That is how it should have been with KOTET/KOTFE from the beginning!

I personally do not like non-Force users but I imagine people who play them have every right to feel weird when suddenly a trooper or agent get Valkorion abilities with no experience in controlling the Force. Also lore about artifacts, rituals, Force ghosts etc shouldn't be equally understandable or meaningful for them.

Force users might be doing the path that is currently there, while non-Force users might take over the fleet by slicing the computer system, introducing virus, sabotage etc. If something Force-related could not be avoided, we had Lana, Senya, Scions... to make magic.

Well, what is done, is done.

But now they could make the story different for everyone:

two outcomes dark vs light or Empire versus Republic

two paths to get there - mainly Force, mainly technology.

 

I also like the idea about letters we could reply and get some story results. This would introduce some role-play without any effort besides some good writing. No graphic models, no voice acting, nothing except writing. Cheap, effective, briliant.

 

As to romances, i will repeat myself, but there are too few options. And I cannot understand why every Sith who starts romance is supposed to be faithful monogamist...

More here

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=911997&highlight=romances

Edited July 2, 2017 by Typhaos

[Ylliarus]

That is how it should have been with KOTET/KOTFE from the beginning!

I personally do not like non-Force users but I imagine people who play them have every right to feel weird when suddenly a trooper or agent get Valkorion abilities with no experience in controlling the Force. Also lore about artifacts, rituals, Force ghosts etc shouldn't be equally understandable or meaningful for them.

Force users might be doing the path that is currently there, while non-Force users might take over the fleet by slicing the computer system, introducing virus, sabotage etc. If something Force-related could not be avoided, we had Lana, Senya, Scions... to make magic.

Well, what is done, is done.

But now they could make the story different for everyone:

two outcomes dark vs light or Empire versus Republic

two paths to get there - mainly Force, mainly technology.

 

I also like the idea about letters we could reply and get some story results. This would introduce some role-play without any effort besides some good writing. No graphic models, no voice acting, nothing except writing. Cheap, effective, briliant.

 

Indeed I agree, at least we should have had the ability to have a Republic and Empire storyline at least, and adding to that two variations, one Force Sensitive and one Non-Force Sensitive. A fifth storyline could have remained the one that we already have, but I really wish so badly we had a Republic and Empire narrative alongside that. 3 unique storylines would have been enough in my opinion, one Alliance, one Empire and one Republic. It would have allowed us to play through the story multiple times and each time have a unique feeling in the playthrough, something I don't have at all with the current version of the expansions. To me personally the replay value of KotFE and KotET is very low, in stark contrast to the original class storylines which I keep replaying without end and without my enjoyment of them ending.

[ImmortalLowlife]

Very nicely put. I agree. It would be ideal to have Class and companion stories again. They do matter. But what I'm taking away from all the posts about this over the years, is that they're unable to do all these, either because of the expense of it, or available manpower to make it happen.

 

Like someone said on another thread...unfortunately I can't remember who it was exactly, but they had the idea that it might have been better to have 3 new chapters for each class, rather than...the larger number of 'one size fits all' that we got.

 

I suppose a compromise would be to make four stories...imperial/republic force users and imperial/republic non-force user stories, that way there would still be adequate flavour to make it feel more unique to each class.

 

I'd love THIS!

[IoNonSoEVero]

One more thing, and it could be a CM cash flow - letting people marry or have some sort of formal Force bonding ritual (make it a choice - for some characters/players the latter might be more meaningful than a wedding) with the companions. Something better than the original class story's "Sure let's get married..." (fade to black) (come back) "Yay, we're married" or that awful ship droid scene. Even with the companions who were originally together in the class stories and have reunited and continued their romance - hey, have something to celebrate it. Have a whole quest around it. People would totally grab that quest.

 

In terms of the KOTFE/KOTET issues - I only have one non-Force character, and I've already decided she's not going to have a carbon snooze. I have to say, playing that through as a non-Force user, as written, would just be weird. I totally agree that there should have been at least two tracks for that, one Force-user and one non.

Edited July 3, 2017 by IoNonSoEVero

[Storm-Cutter]

Funny how I made sme wild disparate choices in my varying play--throughs.... and still ended up with an alliance of contacts, specialists, a fleet, a throne, overthrowing Arcann only to have Vaylin take his place and then defeating her and Valkorian.....

Where was the choice that mattered?

 

I agree with a number of posters here. - Differing class stories is what most people remember most fondly. This has been narrowing to 'one narrative fits all' - Which for a lot of people it plainly doesn't.

But by the time you do a force story, a non-force story a light side and a dark side a neutral side and a Zakuul faction - that's pretty much as much work as doing a story for each class - warrior, bounty hunter smuggler, trooper, knight etc.

 

- But BW apparently haven't the team to put it together nor the budget or time to make it happen. -However if you have to narrow the narrative- it's imperative that you make it relevant to all classes and alignments and have enough differences that encourages replay-ability.

 

MY IA didn't give a fig about the force. Nor did my trooper- MY knight was full Darkside, my consular all light- and by the time KotFE had been run through with all of them I'd basically had enough of being frozen in carbonite and awakened by plastic-faced Lana telling me that I was the only one who could save the galaxy from a new threat and having the emperor in my noggin.

[Joluka]

Maybe if BioWare hadn't spent so much money on voicing side quests they'd have the money and resources to go for the class stories continuation now. Just a feeling I've been having as I played through the classes again.

 

This game could've been my all time favorite if they continued the class stories and nothing else story wise, it really could have. Like, the Warrior and Agent stories deserved to be continued, those things are masterpieces to the point that it actually hurts knowing that it doesn't matter how much we want their continuations, we're not getting them.

[Storm-Cutter]

Maybe if BioWare hadn't spent so much money on voicing side quests they'd have the money and resources to go for the class stories continuation now. Just a feeling I've been having as I played through the classes again.

 

 

This may be true, but the original game was built with a huge budget and large developer team, with lots of hype and the STAR WARS Brand to guarantee lots of paying customers. - But somehow they didn't manage to sustain the momentum, and went the way of a lot of MMOs and had to provide a F2P option and poured resources into providing a cash shop so they could boost revenue from PAying customers and F2P players alike.

 

Spin on a few years and some development choices didn't go down too well, and the content started drying up. - When they released Makeb we were down to 1 republic story and 1 Empire- and there was a fair bit of crossover - re-using locations and such even then.

 

There was always going to be a drop-off in subs after the first rush, but not providing a big injection of content to stop the outflow was the first of many errors. - Running it on a shoestring budget and splashing millions on flashy trailers - but not promoting the game when interest in all things STAR WARS ( anniversaries, TFA, Rogue1 etc) was at its peak was probably their biggest mistake.

[Transcendent]

While I definitely feel like it may be too late now, individual class stories aren't impossible at this point. The key thing here is that the story needs to have a definitive ending.

 

Does it? I mean in reality when looking at the scope of the original trilogy, I'm not sure it needs to be something set into stone and can always leave things open. Sure from a budget point of view you could argue it has to be set in stone, but not all stories have to end with a cliff-hanger to lead into something else. As long as the budget for the part of the story you want to share is set, then it should be fine (think Makeb and RotHC for example)

 

We already know individual class stories isn't likely to return due to the expense involved, however it wouldn't harm for BioWare to acknowledge the individual classes within the stories being told by having them run different missions more suited to the class specific roles (yes it involves more work). That way even if it's only a "one size fits all story", you don't end up with a non-force user playing through a story primarily written for a force user (and vice versa). You can add flavour depending on the faction and class, while respecting the original class stories and choices made during those stories.

 

It is something they can budget for, it depends if they have the developers to undertake something like this and if the return on the investment would be enough for the bean counters (by all accounts having more story was successful with KotFE and KotET).

[Storm-Cutter]

Here's hoping for the next 20 or so chapters where force-users are told to forget everything they know about the force, coz you can defeat all your enemies with a big gun and a witty ( or cheesy ) put-down.

- That at least seems fair.

[Lunafox]

I'd love THIS!

 

I'm glad you guys love this idea of four stories, maybe the devs will take notice and do something like that for us next time. I think it would play better to everyone, if there were four stories (for rep and imp), and for non force users and those for force users.

 

Let's hope they hear us.

[matthobbit]

I suppose a compromise would be to make four stories...imperial/republic force users and imperial/republic non-force user stories, that way there would still be adequate flavour to make it feel more unique to each class.

 

I'm just going to say that this would be a wonderful way to return to a semblence of Republic verses Empire, accounting for the differences between force-users and non-force users. I have to say that the weirdness of bringing a non-force user into KOFTE really became pronounced when Satele and Marr had me create a... force-attuned assault canon? So uncivilized!

 

And let us return to the core planets from the original storylines! We have so many planets that we can return to. There can be instanced-off sections for additional story content (maybe following the story-veteran-master modes for additional challenge). As much as I would love new full-sized additional planets so visit and explore, returning to existing planets is certainly more budget-friendly until we attract new subscribers. We did this for several KOTFE companion quest side missions and I thought it was a great way to revisit old favorite locations.

[JadenFlamearrow]

I don't think this will happen even though most people, including me, want it to. But we for sure have a better chance now that we have different people in charge of talking to the community, maybe it's just me. But I would really like to see this happen.

[Xina_LA]

I have to agree with so many posts before mine.

 

The story just hasn't been as good since KOTFE started. For me, the stories are just TOO big and epic. The plots aren't the same now that I control the Eternal Alliance. My character is just too powerful with so much military might behind her, yet taking it away would also be extremely disappointing. I feel like the story is painted into a corner.

 

I miss having different choices based on class.

 

I also felt that KOTFE and KOTET heavily favored force users.

 

I sincerely hope they bring back side stories for our companions. It would be a good excuse to leave the Fleet behind and solve issues personally.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Xina_LA

[Ylliarus]

I have to agree with so many posts before mine.

 

The story just hasn't been as good since KOTFE started. For me, the stories are just TOO big and epic. The plots aren't the same now that I control the Eternal Alliance. My character is just too powerful with so much military might behind her, yet taking it away would also be extremely disappointing. I feel like the story is painted into a corner.

 

I miss having different choices based on class.

 

I also felt that KOTFE and KOTET heavily favored force users.

 

I sincerely hope they bring back side stories for our companions. It would be a good excuse to leave the Fleet behind and solve issues personally.

 

I completely agree with what you said. I don't necessarily mind the story being big and epic, but I miss the class and faction diversity so badly. Like you can play as a Sith Warrior and a Jedi Consular through both expansions and you'll have almost exactly the same experience with the narrative despite the fact you are from two opposite factions and even from two opposite alignments in the Force. That is what bugged me so much, you couldn't give the Alliance an Empire feel or Republic feel based on your character's background.

 

I am surprised thought the Devs have not reacted to this thread yet with so many supporting posts and players evidently being in favour of what I have talked about in my OP and what we all talked about in subsequent posts. Maybe the silence means that we are going to see all we talked about in this thread back in future story content?

[MissilyMilcasia]

Hopefully, Bioware will make 6.0 the "Fall of the Alliance", and we can return to the Empire vs. Republic story that captivated us all in the first place. Also, make the use of the following words a perma-ban offense:

 

outlander

zakuul

Alliance

eternal

Alliance Commander

Command

:p

I think it's unrealistic to ever get back to class specific stories, but maybe we can one day have Republic/Empire stories again, with a class perk or two in the story here and there.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I am going to step away from the consensus slightly in saying that I really, really liked stepping out of the Republic/Empire constraints. The current Alliance allows the player to interact with cool companions from both sides, and is showing a much richer environment...not just "the guys in the blue uniform = good; the guys in the red uniform = bad." It's showing a common ground, and also presents the opportunity to show that there really ARE good and bad people on both sides, and all sorts of stripes of Force users, not just the extremes depicted in the films sometimes.

 

However, what I think they could show is more context and more variety - as others have said, not the same story with the same resolution for all eight classes. Having the Wrath/Darth Nox relate to Valkorion in exactly the same way as the Republic Trooper is just weird.

 

I would honestly love to see the Alliance Commander and their friends keep traveling around to new adventures - with perhaps the choice to side with a faction but continue working with the Alliance, as they did with Iokath - with context and class or Force variations within that - rather than getting back into the tired old R vs. E game again. What was cool about Makeb, the Manaan flashpoints and Revan was that it got away from that.

 

Plus, again, the companions need more attention, love and interactions. Lana Beniko and Theron Shan are amazing characters IMHO, and the best things about KOTFE/KOTET. The player has developed relationships with them over time. Take that to the next level and give us more with them, at the very least, plus the in-game mails and other stuff we've mentioned.

Edited July 3, 2017 by IoNonSoEVero

[Ylliarus]

Hopefully, Bioware will make 6.0 the "Fall of the Alliance", and we can return to the Empire vs. Republic story that captivated us all in the first place. Also, make the use of the following words a perma-ban offense:

 

outlander

zakuul

Alliance

eternal

Alliance Commander

Command

:p

I think it's unrealistic to ever get back to class specific stories, but maybe we can one day have Republic/Empire stories again, with a class perk or two in the story here and there.

 

That is exactly what I was thinking, there indeed may be no 8 class stories anymore but if we could return to at least 2 unique storylines, one Empire and one Republic, I'd be more than content. And please, please allow us to go home to our factions... please let my Darth Nox go back to Dromund Kaas where she belongs, let my Hero of Tython defend the Republic as a Jedi Knight once more... please, please, please allow us to return to our original factions.

[PowerJediRanger]

Honestly I won't mind the story going the way it was done in Makeb and like Shadow of Revan as it was two factions but the story is different but the same depending on class. Reason why I'm brining only one character through it all is because I feel I'll be bored with it all after like few classes as it was all the same.

[ShadowofaMew]

But... what I would've liked... would've been some kind of secret power conference between Acina and the Imperial main character. Acina would state that she understands that public appearances must remain a certain way for expediency's sake (no wish to weaken the Alliance by creating division). To the world, it can just appear that the Empire and the Alliance are, um, allies. But a private agreement between the two of them could allow the Alliance to serve the Empire secretly. The main character would have three options: 1) accept her offer and secretly make the Alliance subordinate to the Empire; 2) say that an alliance is enough for now and the relationship between the Empire and the Alliance can be properly determined once Vaylin is defeated; or 3) reject her offer. A second choice hub would handle the player's intention in making those choices. For example, option 1 could be designated a bluff: a wily sith could pretend to make the Alliance subordinate to the Empire but simply be biding their time until they decide to usurp leadership from Acina. Or, after rejecting the offer by taking option 3, a bold sith could say flat-out that they believe they have a better claim to be Emperor or Empress. Etc! In terms of consequences, nothing much would change on a visible level: like the decision to ally or not ally with the Empire, it'd just be a question of whether Acina thinks the Alliance Commander is on her side or not. A few bits of dialogue could refer back to the earlier decision when Acina returns. And the main character would remain free to stab her in the back on Iokath if they liked, regardless of prior promises.

 

My feeling is that Acina would not try this scheme with a Republic character, not even if they seemed sympathetic to the Empire, so this'd just be a "bonus" for Imperials. (Maybe Republic characters could get some more fleshed-out options with the Saresh side of the plot.)

 

What I'm describing might sound a bit odd, but I'm aiming for something that would achieve the storytelling elegance of the loyalty choice in the agent's class story. If the agent actually defects, there are very few callbacks that explicitly refer to their status - which makes sense, because it's a secret! But from the moment I decided that my main agent would defect (this is obviously a different agent from the one I referenced above), everything felt different whenever I played her. "The world" saw that agent just the same way as before, but I, the player, knew the truth.

 

I feel like that would have been an interesting way to go. I would have loved to have my Sith Inquisitors try to take the Empire while also running the alliance and ruling over Zakuul. I mean, they already lost one powerbase, it only makes sense that they would want to gain even more power, it fits so well with the Empire in general. I'm legit sad that it didn't work out that way.

[Ylliarus]

Honestly I won't mind the story going the way it was done in Makeb and like Shadow of Revan as it was two factions but the story is different but the same depending on class. Reason why I'm brining only one character through it all is because I feel I'll be bored with it all after like few classes as it was all the same.

 

I have pretty much the same feeling about it. I'm a obsessive compulsive completionist so I will do the story because I have to have all quests and such done on each toon, but I already feel that I have enjoyed the original class stories a 100 times better than KotFE and KotET combined after having played through the expansions a third time.

 

But the thing that saddens me the most is that I am able to play the class stories multiple times and each time I discover something new, a new line of dialogue or action. With KotFE and KotET it's all the same, over and over again which is what is downgrading my initial extremely high opinion of both expansions.

[PowerJediRanger]

I have pretty much the same feeling about it. I'm a obsessive compulsive completionist so I will do the story because I have to have all quests and such done on each toon, but I already feel that I have enjoyed the original class stories a 100 times better than KotFE and KotET combined after having played through the expansions a third time.

 

But the thing that saddens me the most is that I am able to play the class stories multiple times and each time I discover something new, a new line of dialogue or action. With KotFE and KotET it's all the same, over and over again which is what is downgrading my initial extremely high opinion of both expansions.

 

Will say that with Makeb and couple others it felt unique that you can tell that the NPCs can see what class you are while in the recent expansions seems it is like they forgotten your class and simply see you as a random person with force abilities or skills.

[Ylliarus]

Will say that with Makeb and couple others it felt unique that you can tell that the NPCs can see what class you are while in the recent expansions seems it is like they forgotten your class and simply see you as a random person with force abilities or skills.

 

Yes, exactly! Now that you said it I completely realise this. In SoR the NPC's still managed to recognise your background due to your class but with KotFE and KotET that dissapeared completely. Chapter 1 and 2 of KotFE still acknowledged your class background in some manner and because those chapters have a very Makeb/SoR feel I adore them the most, but everything that comes after Chapter 2 is less appealing in my opinion. Honestly, if all the chapters of the latest two expansions were like The Hunt and Dream of Empire chapters then KotFE and KotET would truly be epic content and narrative, now they're just good. They had the potential to be epic, but sadly because eventually they lost this feeling of class individuality the story became more avarage and bland sadly.

[Ylliarus]

I'm just going to say that this would be a wonderful way to return to a semblence of Republic verses Empire, accounting for the differences between force-users and non-force users. I have to say that the weirdness of bringing a non-force user into KOFTE really became pronounced when Satele and Marr had me create a... force-attuned assault canon? So uncivilized!

 

And let us return to the core planets from the original storylines! We have so many planets that we can return to. There can be instanced-off sections for additional story content (maybe following the story-veteran-master modes for additional challenge). As much as I would love new full-sized additional planets so visit and explore, returning to existing planets is certainly more budget-friendly until we attract new subscribers. We did this for several KOTFE companion quest side missions and I thought it was a great way to revisit old favorite locations.

 

I completely agree with what you say here! I have yet to play KotFE and KotET on a non-Force User but the comments from people saying it feels extremely weird is what is making me delay such a playthrough. It does in fact seem weird to be constructing a Force-attuned assault cannon let alone a blaster... imagine how funny that will seem "This blaster will unite a thousand stars" lol, I'd smirk right then and there in Marr's face.

 

Also I really agree with the starting planets returning more, yes we had Dromund Kaas featured in chapter 2 of KotET but come on, that was simply a crowd pleaser as there didn't happen a lot of exciting stuff on DK. I really think we should get daily areas on Korriban, Tython, Dromund Kaas and Coruscant that are tied to the latest story arc. Not only will it bring those iconic worlds into perspective again in the KotFE/KotET narrative but also allow us to return more frequently there. They're the main planets of our factions, you can't just ignore them, so I really hope the Devs will consider making them a daily zone soon. We don't need new planets, use the old ones and polish them up again.

[WorldSmasher]

Also... SENYA ROMANCE PLEASE.

 

 

 

Oh, and I support this. It would be completely weird, it would be a very steep age gap for many characters, but I'm in favour of it.

 

Why?

 

I'm always in favour for new long-term story developments.

 

I don't know about a romance with Senya... You got Valcorian in your head. Every time you try to get close to Senya, Ol' Valco will start saying stuff like, "Yeah. I got her first. Heh... Heh... Heh...." or "You should get her to do that thing. It's incredible!"

[Ylliarus]

I don't know about a romance with Senya... You got Valcorian in your head. Every time you try to get close to Senya, Ol' Valco will start saying stuff like, "Yeah. I got her first. Heh... Heh... Heh...." or "You should get her to do that thing. It's incredible!"

 

Lol... well, it would be interesting as an story arc you know because Senya would be left wondering is she if falling for the Outlander or for Valkorion who is inside the Outlander's head. It would have been a great narrative to explore and tread down upon.