Class Changes: Madness Sorcerer / Balance Sage

[BraverDre]

What a joke you might say but we don't know how bad or good the buff will be. Need to see that in actual fight.

P.s. we needed a force management buff... why u love assassins (faceroll class for pve) and hate sorcs.. i dont understand.

Edited June 28, 2017 by BraverDre

[Pizza_boy]

Respectfully, without addressing the Force negative rotation that hinders the spec in sustained fights and cuts down the use of Lightning strike or all together (also forcing the use of consumption) this doesn't change much at all. Broken rotation is still broken and should have been addressed first.

 

LUL. Force is a confirmed crutch by bioware. All they have to do is buff it up so its still as trash as viru so everyone goes melee.

[Dhurwin]

I'm no Madness savant by any means, but personally I never understood why when they gave Lightning Barrage to Madness, and Focal Lightning to Lightning, and changed Lightning Barrage so that it reduced the damage of Force Lightning by 25%, they didn't also reduce the force cost by 25%. Surely that would go a long way to helping the class's force management. It channels 33% quicker, but it does less damage so it should cost less force. Makes sense in my mind anyway.

 

I'm also in agreement with the thought that Lightning Strike is almost always a waste of a Wrath proc unless you need to move. This seems a little silly, but again I know almost nothing about the spec.

 

P.S. why couldn't the nerfs y'all have been handing out been this small?

[Pizza_boy]

I'm no Madness savant by any means, but personally I never understood why when they gave Lightning Barrage to Madness, and Focal Lightning to Lightning, and changed Lightning Barrage so that it reduced the damage of Force Lightning by 25%, they didn't also reduce the force cost by 25%. Surely that would go a long way to helping the class's force management. It channels 33% quicker, but it does less damage so it should cost less force. Makes sense in my mind anyway.

 

I'm also in agreement with the thought that Lightning Strike is almost always a waste of a Wrath proc unless you need to move. This seems a little silly, but again I know almost nothing about the spec.

 

P.S. why couldn't the nerfs y'all have been handing out been this small?

 

Cuz they hate ranged m8

[Zwirni]

I think you get the 10012 from the average dps of the optimal stats post. From reading all of the Dev posts and all of the previous buffs/nerfs I figured the target dps was somewhere around 9500-9600. Which is now all but guaranteed as to the target that they are using. Therefore, if you look at the 5% windows the top 12 specs from this post http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=918622 are overperofming (in their mind).

 

This will only bost the top parse by 170 dps if all dots are under deathmark and they aren't. I don't run the spec any longer so I don't know the percentage of each dot under deathmark.

 

No, I don't. I take my numbers from their changes. Operative Lethality has an average DPS of 10500 and is not changed. That means 10500 DPS is 105% of their target DPS.

[AdjeYo]

To match the other ranged dps who are all losing damage?

 

Well, we're in the same target dps catagory as melee burst specs, as Bioware stated not too long ago. And this buff will still leave us 100 dps short of Rage Juggernauts, who are about 200 dps below Carnage. I also doubt this and the Virulence nerf will make Virulence and Madness pull similar numbers.

 

Secondly, this does nothing to address the force negative nature Madness' rotation

[Dhurwin]

Cuz they hate ranged m8

 

Oh hi Laet didn't know you still played the game Yea it's looking like they do, ranged might still be ok in pvp cause of the self heals... Well mercs and snipers will be R.I.P. Sorcs everything

[Chemists]

Is the goal in 5.3 just to make every ranged spec garbage? Because it is really looking like there is no reason to play ranged other than for fights that require it. Edited June 28, 2017 by Chemists
Because

[Hichitsuki-hime]

I think you get the 10012 from the average dps of the optimal stats post. From reading all of the Dev posts and all of the previous buffs/nerfs I figured the target dps was somewhere around 9500-9600. Which is now all but guaranteed as to the target that they are using. Therefore, if you look at the 5% windows the top 12 specs from this post http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=918622 are overperofming (in their mind).

 

This will only bost the top parse by 170 dps if all dots are under deathmark and they aren't. I don't run the spec any longer so I don't know the percentage of each dot under deathmark.

 

u mean 9500-9600 guaranteeted for those people that can actually parse 9.3-9.4k at the moment lol. fair enough. still after what was done to corruption / seer and the lack of attention to lightning / telekinetics.... this kinda feelz.... small. much like the pyro pt buff. except the pt actually has one already good spec lol:D:D:D

[shanealdrich]

No, I don't. I take my numbers from their changes. Operative Lethality has an average DPS of 10500 and is not changed. That means 10500 DPS is 105% of their target DPS.

 

I understand that logic and I hope/wish you are correct, but they stated in the initial post per Eric

If you see another Discipline in your grouping got “nerfed” and your Discipline’s damage output is now quite a bit higher than theirs, then it is a good bet when we get around to balancing your Discipline it will also be seeing a reduction in damage output. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9333043#edit9333043

So in my mind operatives are going to get nerfed in 5.4 or beyond.

 

Did you forget to count the leech buff. I counted around 230 DPS buff (over top parses) if all dots were under deathmark (which isn't the case).

 

I computed a 4% buff on leech (1.3/1.25) and a 4.55% increase on the death marks (1.15/1.1)

[Pizza_boy]

Oh hi Laet didn't know you still played the game Yea it's looking like they do, ranged might still be ok in pvp cause of the self heals... Well mercs and snipers will be R.I.P. Sorcs everything

 

hello... yea i think in PVP these changes wont have as much as an effect except for the changes to sorc heals. PVE tho... rip ranged.

[BraverDre]

yeap if madness cant do 10k dps, its better to just stop paying for a sub cuz devs are not listening to people.

[Zolxtren]

yeap if madness cant do 10k dps, its better to just stop paying for a sub cuz devs are not listening to people.

 

looking at them how super squishy they are and the lack of any real defensives they have they should be doing a minimum of 12k dps in both dps spec if 10k the goal....

Edited June 28, 2017 by Zolxtren

[slukslaksla]

told u sorc was basicly getting nerfed... 5% on 2 abilitys in turn we lose a bounch of self heal strenght and static barrier strenght as well... (se sorc heal changes, sorc for proof)...

 

pvp gonna be even worse now... :C

[slukslaksla]

hello... yea i think in PVP these changes wont have as much as an effect except for the changes to sorc heals. PVE tho... rip ranged.

 

not rly sure there... some of the sorc healer changes apply to the entire class... such as static barrier beeing weaker. so we should see a LESS powerfull sorc in pvp all over... and thats asuming you play madness not lightning wich is even worse in terms of defense...

 

cus to me pvp is all about defense... if you cant live then doing 12k dps dont matter... sorc doing under 9k dps at best gear/skills atm aint even got that... (and most normal player without a raid guild prob dont even have gear so they doing even lower dps.)

 

pve wise we are fine.. we always were...

 

it doesn't matter with dps in PVE if you gonna beat the boss anyways... as long as you hit minimum dps in pve ur fine cus boss is an AI so it does the same thing all the times... so asuming sorc hit at least minimum dps wich id say it does then PVE we will ALLWAYS be fine cus we have healers and tanks to back us up... so while running all mercs is faster ultimatly it dosn't matter cus ur beating the boss anyways.

 

we dont have that in pvp however cus the matchmaking atm is potato...

[Dhurwin]

hello... yea i think in PVP these changes wont have as much as an effect except for the changes to sorc heals. PVE tho... rip ranged.

 

I'm fighting my hardest for those healer nerfs to be rescinded, but it's not like I've got the devs ear or anything. Preparing myself for the time my raid team asks me to switch to another heal class. It's not gonna be pretty

[Zwirni]

I understand that logic and I hope/wish you are correct, but they stated in the initial post per Eric

If you see another Discipline in your grouping got “nerfed” and your Discipline’s damage output is now quite a bit higher than theirs, then it is a good bet when we get around to balancing your Discipline it will also be seeing a reduction in damage output. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9333043#edit9333043

So in my mind operatives are going to get nerfed in 5.4 or beyond.

 

Then look at the Virulence changes. It got nerfed to roughly 9890 DPS from 10900 DPS. Meaning 9890 should be the new 97,5% of target DPS.

Result: 10143 DPS = 100%

Trying to justify that they know what they are doing is a futile attempt.

[Thaladan]

With the general nerf for heal and barrier, i doubt the spec will be better in Pvp without up the energy management of madness. Edited June 28, 2017 by Thaladan

[kamukotak]

The only thing you can do to make them listen is to unsub. It took them like 7 month to come up with such a pitiful solution. And all they had to do is change some values in a database table and make sure it isn't op in PVP afterwards. It would have been much easier to just buff telekinetic throw by a few percent.

[Kuvox]

This change is ridiculous given the nerf to our self-heals and the enormous nerf to the healing discipline. This is basically Bioware eliminating Sorcs and Sages. This was once the most played class.

[Kurj]

This change is ridiculous given the nerf to our self-heals and the enormous nerf to the healing discipline. This is basically Bioware eliminating Sorcs and Sages. This was once the most played class.

 

It seems like their goal is to reduce the amount of sorcs/sages, given that the class was overplayed in the past. If that is correct, then I would expect to see a slight buff to bump their performance up in the future.

[ViktorAres]

It seems like their goal is to reduce the amount of sorcs/sages, given that the class was overplayed in the past. If that is correct, then I would expect to see a slight buff to bump their performance up in the future.

Dps sorcs are a now rarity in PVP, and almost non-existent in Ranked (thankfully, considering the low dps and squishiness).

Edited June 28, 2017 by ViktorAres

[BobbyWiggles]

Then look at the Virulence changes. It got nerfed to roughly 9890 DPS from 10900 DPS. Meaning 9890 should be the new 97,5% of target DPS.

Result: 10143 DPS = 100%

Trying to justify that they know what they are doing is a futile attempt.

 

This ^^^

[RevorteX]

The tiny difference in dps numbers won't change a lot in pvp. The sorc will get destroyed with the nerf on Static barrier. These 5% on two abilities won't lead to any difference,they will lead to the disappearance of this class. Come on Devs,listen to us for a change.

 

On a simple note what do we have?

- 2 abilities with only 5% buff on their damage - WOAH! - that's nothing.

- Nerf of Static barrier for the ENTIRE class - Static Barrier barely absorbs whatsoever now,what to say when 5.3 rolls? We won't need it all probably

-Nerf to Dark heal ? - As if it healed good till now.

 

These are 3 major problems currently. Not to mention the funny lightning spec which does less damage than my grandma with her walking stick.

 

Dear developers,we the community are the real thing which you should look at when you balance classes. Our knowledge comes from daily regular basis,which we do the same thing over and over in both pve and pvp. Please listen to us,this changes will make things worse.

[Ephsylon]

Dps sorcs are a now rarity in PVP, and almost non-existent in Ranked (thankfully, considering the low dps and squishiness).

 

Yes, I tried ranked with a balance sage, always picked first, tunneled into oblivion, then my team had to manage a 3v4. But that's not something balancing numbers can predict. Tanks will ward the healer, not the DPS. Healers are gonna heal the tank, not the DPS.