In SWTOR the "Real" Game starts at level 1

[atnasomus]

So... by your own example this person bought a product; used 20% of it and may or may not be disappointed. If you only use 20% of the product and have reached your perceived zenith, then you may not be doing it wrong but you did it in a way that was unintended.

 

Sort of like drinking a beer with your butt! You only get the 4-6% alcohol and it'll get you drunk faster, but is it more fun? Maybe....

 

Just because it's not the way you would want it done does not mean it is incorrect. Intention rarely matters once it becomes a product.

 

Why? Well if you read up on some human computer interaction, the community at large that interacts with the product will engage with it in the way they find most enjoyable, whether that was is intended or not.

 

Devs still have control over the game world, but not how people engage with it. The best they can do is reinforce the behaviors they want people to engage in.

[Napalmbrain]

Level 45 .... not even 1 second of boredom or grinding.

 

I'd say that is quite an improvement over EVERY other MMO ever...especially WoW.

 

If you are the type of person who enjoys a good story in a their games rather than just kill kill kill...this game keeps you HOOKED start to finish.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Napalmbrain

[Dakien]

Just because it's not the way you would want it done does not mean it is incorrect. Intention rarely matters once it becomes a product.

 

Why? Well if you read up on some human computer interaction, the community at large that interacts with the product will engage with it in the way they find most enjoyable, whether that was is intended or not.

 

Devs still have control over the game world, but not how people engage with it. The best they can do is reinforce the behaviors they want people to engage in.

 

Agreed to a point. The community has every right to engage the product in any way that they want. The question then becomes: Do they have the right to complain if they use the product in a manner that it was not intended for?

 

Example: You buy a brand new BMW and only choose to drive it at 45 MPH, only listen to AM radio and never turn on the climate control, despite the fact that it is capable of performing better if you utilized your options. You just don't want to do it... too much trouble, your perrogative, whatever.

 

What possibly gives you the right to make a statement about the quality of the vehicle if you don't use it's full features?

[Emencie]

Anyone who is level 50 right now IS doing it wrong. I guarantee they skipped every cutscene just to go get xp faster. Play the game the way it was intended and you just might enjoy yourself for more than a week.

 

I work 9 hours a day not to mention family life... my character is currently in his 30's. I have not had any extra holiday time off. I have not skipped a single cut scene I've not already seen (re running Flashpoints) I am at 200+ on all my crafting professions and rank 15 in pvp. So not even all my time is spent questing my face off.

 

Someone who took a week or two off to play over the holidays easily could have gotten to 50 without skipping anything. In fact I’m sure before my 30 days are up I will be a level 50 who's not skipped anything.

 

I think you are grossly overestimating the time it take to level in this game.

[TegMiles]

The story mod is awesome !!

 

I will do 4 toon :

 

actually consular (man wanna be a good Jedi !)

 

after = Bounty Hunter... grrrr and a bad on. range + heal

 

 

after a smugler... range + heal

 

and i finish the run with the Sith Warrior... idk tank or dps....

 

 

I will play end content with the best of the 4 for my playstyle.

 

 

I love each moment of quest talking... cool ++++

 

Voices are awesome and i cry when i made my first lighsaber.

 

 

 

I ll be here in 5 years.... doing the space ad-on that will be like a mix of eve online and x-wing vs tie fighter.... (and maybe some ideas of wing commander)

 

 

u will be there ?

[brusthoden]

NO MMORPG was intended by the maker to be played as much as some people play them it's called having no life! stop complaining take it easy and go get laid for once it'll make you realize the stuff your complaining about isn't that big a deal. plus it will put you on the track the maker planned for.

 

they make the game for the average gamer not the no life loser gamer there are more average gamers than no life loser gamers who would you try to appeal too. they both pay the same amount but more of one than the other. More monies!

[Merex]

The game is great from a story perspective for sure. But take away the cutscenes and you have some really poor quest and zone design as well as a world that isn't very interactive for an MMO, and that's about it.

[Xmok]

It may seem like the real game starts at lvl 1 right now, but as you play more at level 50 and roll a few alts, you'll realize the real game is still end game, at level 50. Once you hit 50 its less about story progression and more about character progression.

[Thiussat]

Not really, VA is bloody hard, I've tried it for a few mods and adverts, considering the volume involved the voicework in TOR -is- pretty bloody spectacular. Although I will say - for the love of pete, stop using whoever it is who voiced Bastila Shan and now seems to appear as a random character every few levels, or at the very least, stop giving her parts which call for an English accent. It is literally painful to listen to for anyone from the UK, she mangles it.

 

Yeah, that chick is actually an American (I looked up the voice actors a whole back). Personally, I think she does well, but I am American so I can't tell the difference.

[Dakien]

It may seem like the real game starts at lvl 1 right now, but as you play more at level 50 and roll a few alts, you'll realize the real game is still end game, at level 50. Once you hit 50 its less about story progression and more about character progression.

 

Please, do explain. Playing the game and gradually acquiring skills that you integrate into your rotation while questing for gear is character progression. End game raiding and PvP is grinding for min/max equipment.

[Blaeys]

I agree OP, most epic leveling experience I've ever had.

 

However, if that comes at the cost of end game being awful, this will be a short lived game. I really hope it sticks around and becomes a joint powerhouse in the MMO genre with that other game, but if they don't hit a homerun with end game by about the 2 month mark (not saying it's not already awesome btw, I don't have a 50 yet.) they might die out.

 

This says it very well. The leveling experience is superior to any contemporary MMO and is a good mix of cooperative/team play and well-written plotlines. I agree that there are plenty of cookie-cutter quests (kill X number of sith, collect X number of rifles), but I've yet to get tired of them - simply because there are ways to break the tedium (a quick pvp match, a few space battles, a flashpoint or two, or just work on the class quest chain).

 

At this point, end game has a hard act to follow. I could see it playing out a couple of ways - dominated by raid content patches that few get to play or a heavy emphasis on pvp are the traditional ones. My hope is that they continue the trend of powerful storytelling by introducing end game questlines and instances that further the class storylines. Those are the bread and butter of this game and the idea of continuing down the path of the Jedi Knight is something I could get excited about (and would make the game fairly unique in the MMO world).

 

Of course, they would still need to launch new raids/pvp battlegrounds/etc, but I think the storytelling/class quests are where this game can really shine.

 

This is, of course, my personal opinion. Feel free to mock it at your leisure.

[Nicain]

No, 3 hours of cut scenes about go collect 10 X on each planet gets old very quickly.

 

Can't please those with short attention spans. I mean unless you're rolling out 10 Sith Assassins, I think the cut scenes are enjoyable.

[EwokLuvr]

Sure it begins at 1. I just wish it didn't end at 50.

[KerinKor]

SWTOR breaks the paradigm and sets a new one ... It is ground breaking in its approach.

Fanboism at its finest.

 

There's nothing 'ground breaking' about this game in the way you describe, for many of use all MMOs are about the 'journey' not the 'arrival', for us the end-game is a huge /yawn sadly infested with e-peening ***-hats.

 

SWTOR is indeed an enjoyable game, so far, and there are things I like very much in it, but there are no new 'paradigms' in it that I have seen or read about.

Edited December 29, 2011 by KerinKor

[Dakien]

Fanboism at its finest, there's nothing 'ground breaking' about this game in the way you describe, for many of use all MMOs are about the 'journey' not the 'arrival', for us the end-game is a huge /yawn fileed with e-peening ***-hats.

 

I think one of the major issues with all these complaints and yours in particular is that this is a game specifically designed for fanbois! It's not for min/maxers or raiders or PvPers. Sure it has those aspects, but it's more for Star Wars fans.

 

If you don't like the game, hit the bricks!

[Apax]

This is an MMO, other people have to play behind you. No MMO will ever have true "choice" that alters the game world as you seem to be looking for. I guess it is back to single player games for you.

 

You might want to try reading posts in context before responding to them in the future. At no point did I suggest MMOs give a true choice. Quite the opposite, I was pointing out that SWToR's dialogue trees don't have any true impact on the game to someone who insisted otherwise.

 

But thanks for backing up my point, even if you didn't mean to.

 

In all fairness, Blizzard's use of phasing in WoW is the closest we'll get to our choices and actions having an impact in the game world. Guild Wars 2 has some promising systems of their own as well.

[Thiussat]

The example you've used here is actually a prime example of how your decisions *don't* impact the storyline in this game.

 

Regardless of what you decide, you still get the rewards (sometimes plus or minus an extra credit box). And you still advance through the story without fail.

 

We're not talking about rewards, bro. The fact is, the dialogue in game determines the outcome of YOUR story and the availability of future quests. For instance, I decided to kill a Jedi master instead of saving him. If I would have saved him, there's no doubt he would pop up later in the game and been an impact on the story in a different way (this was one of my character quests here). There probably would have been other quests dealing with him in some way. I can give many other examples of such stuff in the story-line. Your decisions determine the flow of your story and future quest lines. This is just a fact. Sorry, but you're wrong.

[Zakumene]

Fanboism at its finest.

 

There's nothing 'ground breaking' about this game in the way you describe, for many of use all MMOs are about the 'journey' not the 'arrival', for us the end-game is a huge /yawn sadly infested with e-peening ***-hats.

 

SWTOR is indeed an enjoyable game, so far, and there are things I like very much in it, but there are no new 'paradigms' in it that I have seen or read about.

 

QUIET TROLL. You didn't even pick an avatar yet. You're CLEARLY trolling.

[Apax]

Fanboism at its finest.

 

There's nothing 'ground breaking' about this game in the way you describe, for many of use all MMOs are about the 'journey' not the 'arrival', for us the end-game is a huge /yawn sadly infested with e-peening ***-hats.

 

SWTOR is indeed an enjoyable game, so far, and there are things I like very much in it, but there are no new 'paradigms' in it that I have seen or read about.

 

I have to agree with this. Like I said earlier in this thread, all MMOs have a story that start at level 1. The player mindset that these games begin at 50 (or whatever the max level in a given MMO may be) has always been flawed. SWTOR didn't do anything new here beyond adapting a less common way of telling that story (through a combination of voice actors, cut scenes, and multiple-choice responses that have minimal impact on the actual gameworld). Most of these techniques aren't even new; the latest Final Fantasy MMO had voice-over and cutscenes as well (way too many of them, frankly).

 

 

Take your pick.. Star Trek Online, both Final Fantasy MMOs, DCUO, even WoW.. the story and leveling experience is there if you have the patience and desire to look for it. I'm glad people are enjoying the journey for a change, but let's be honest: there was never anything preventing you from enjoying it in other MMOs beyond your own stubborn desires to reach max level ASAP. That's a failure on the player's part, not the MMOs.

[Apax]

We're not talking about rewards, bro. The fact is, the dialogue in game determines the outcome of YOUR story and the availability of future quests. For instance, I decided to kill a Jedi master instead of saving him. If I would have saved him, there's no doubt he would pop up later in the game and been an impact on the story in a different way (this was one of my character quests here). There probably would have been other quests dealing with him in some way. I can give many other examples of such stuff in the story-line. Your decisions determine the flow of your story and future quest lines. This is just a fact. Sorry, but you're wrong.

 

It's cute that you believe this, but it's just not accurate.

 

At best you get an email from the NPC with a token reward in it.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Apax

[Wildfae]

What makes this game all that ground breaking as opposed to other MMO's I mean really. Aside from the voice-overs, what is so different? Quest system is the same ... Do x, come back and ill give you a treat. When you hit 50, you run hard level dungeons that you have already run. Once youve run those you do raids. And PvP ... ummm quick get the flag, i mean ball and score a point. I mean really not all that groundbreaking, its just got a star wars flavor. What they did do was incorporate Pets into every class, essentially making soloing content easier for people with no friends or die hard star wars fans that never played an MMO. thats kind of cool. But what has star wars done that you have not seen before that is crazy ground breaking? Added 30 GBs of Voice overs?

Love the game, but its not the cure for cancer if you know what I mean.

[Klarick]

What makes this game all that ground breaking as opposed to other MMO's I mean really. Aside from the voice-overs, what is so different? Quest system is the same ... Do x, come back and ill give you a treat. When you hit 50, you run hard level dungeons that you have already run. Once youve run those you do raids. And PvP ... ummm quick get the flag, i mean ball and score a point. I mean really not all that groundbreaking, its just got a star wars flavor. What they did do was incorporate Pets into every class, essentially making soloing content easier for people with no friends or die hard star wars fans that never played an MMO. thats kind of cool. But what has star wars done that you have not seen before that is crazy ground breaking? Added 30 GBs of Voice overs?

Love the game, but its not the cure for cancer if you know what I mean.

 

Your anger feeds me. Your Hatred makes me stronger. Your vitriol makes me invincible. I am Sith!

[Emencie]

We're not talking about rewards, bro. The fact is, the dialogue in game determines the outcome of YOUR story and the availability of future quests. For instance, I decided to kill a Jedi master instead of saving him. If I would have saved him, there's no doubt he would pop up later in the game and been an impact on the story in a different way (this was one of my character quests here). There probably would have been other quests dealing with him in some way. I can give many other examples of such stuff in the story-line. Your decisions determine the flow of your story and future quest lines. This is just a fact. Sorry, but you're wrong.

Yea sorry to burst your bubble but nope. Everyone in the same base class gets the exact same story. Same quests, same dialogue, same everything.

 

If you spare someone instead of killing them you still never see them again. Never interact with them and get no extra quest, nor do you lose out on quests. Nothing you do in any quest in this game has any effect on anything.

 

I was a little disappointed at this as well. But I expected it.

[silkforcalde]

This thread is absurd. ToR questing is just WoW questing from 5 or 6 years ago dressed up with fancy cutscenes and dialog options. Otherwise, it is identical. WoW, however, has moved on and now WoW quests have you flying on dragons, controlling robots, controlling a rolling firey ball of death as you kill a thousand gnomes, and so on. WoW quests are now epic and incredibly varied.

 

To say that the real game starts at level 1 is absurd. If it's false, which I hope to god it is, then your comment is absurd because it's not based in rationality. If it's true then it's the worst idea in MMO history and will result in the death of this game.

[silkforcalde]

We're not talking about rewards, bro. The fact is, the dialogue in game determines the outcome of YOUR story and the availability of future quests. For instance, I decided to kill a Jedi master instead of saving him. If I would have saved him, there's no doubt he would pop up later in the game and been an impact on the story in a different way (this was one of my character quests here). There probably would have been other quests dealing with him in some way. I can give many other examples of such stuff in the story-line. Your decisions determine the flow of your story and future quest lines. This is just a fact. Sorry, but you're wrong.

 

Not true. When you select a dialog option, the only thing the game updates is the response from the NPC, the second line of dialog from the NPC after your selection is always the same. Choosing a particular end to a quest will get you dark side / light side points, a different cutscene possibly, and different quest rewards but that's it. If the Jedi Master was able to be killed, you wouldn't see him / her again. There is no phasing in this game.